EPTSC2: Broodwar Reboot - Page 2
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kyama
United States118 Posts
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ManWithCheese
Canada246 Posts
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ramen247
United States1256 Posts
On August 28 2009 07:28 BluzMan wrote: Well, I don't think the pathfinding routines from SC are possible to recreate in SC2 since modern pathfinding is likely to be GPU-bound and therefore, impossible to modify. SC2 pathfinding, unit clustering and easy surrounds are my #1 SC2 cons at the moment. Not that SC pathfinding is perfect, but it sure as hell is something we got used to and it allows room for large army micro we all love - not "blink that stalker, blink this stalker" which any newbie can learn in a matter of hours, but true micro control that only good players have a hang on - army positioning and flanking has more effect on battle outcome than anything else. SC2 feels (at least on video) a lot different mainly due to that, not automine or MBS. Anyway, the point is that modifications to pathfinding are a no-no even with all the might on the new editor (unless they allow you to execute GPGPU instructions which I highly doubt) and with that in mind, SC in SC2 falls apart. Unit AI is another example (even though tightly linked with the former) - if many units didn't require manual targeting (take reaver) in SC, they would just rape everything in sight when massed. Even if you recreate the reaver in the new engine with exact stats, better unit AI will break the delicate balance to hell. I'm not talking about smartcasting, just target acquisition. Smartcasting seems pretty easy to disable, but the latter is not. good point... shit | ||
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JiYan
United States3668 Posts
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zazen
Brazil695 Posts
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MamiyaOtaru
United States1687 Posts
On August 28 2009 07:28 BluzMan wrote: if many units didn't require manual targeting (take reaver) in SC I was pretty sure reaver's will just fire at an enemy if it comes in range. If you're saying they need manual targetting to effectively spread their scarabs, sure. Am I just misunderstanding you? Anyway, BW in SC2 will probably be done by someone, and some people will play it. A lot of the bug based micro that won't really be doable in the new engine won't matter as much to more casual players. Of course, I don't know how many casual players will want to play BW in SC2 instead of SC2, but there could be some. Would be nice if you could import the Project Revolution models. They really went out of their way to make them look right, while putting all that effort into a game where it would never work and making it so the models couldn't be used elsewhere (like in SC2). Oh well. I just don't understand the rationale behind spending all that time and not letting the fruits of your labors be put to use. | ||
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redneck_mike
United States124 Posts
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Zato-1
Chile4253 Posts
On August 28 2009 06:52 Jyvblamo wrote: Keep in mind they probably won't be able to recapture some of the gameplay 'glitches' are characteristic SC:BW, unless the Data editor is powerful enough to change the engine of the game itself. For example, it seems unlikely they'll be able to replicate mutalisk stacking. Or buggy reaver scarabs, or bad dragoon/goliath pathing, or inconvenient casting of multiple psi storms / lockdown / D-Web, or drone drills, or observers over turrets bug, or high templar dance while they fail to archon warp, or dumber worker pathing which changes mining efficiency at different saturation levels... It would be a fundamentally different game. Might be you'll even like it better. But if you want to play Brood Wars, you need to do so with the Brood Wars program- even the best SC2 custom map will have significant differences with the original game. | ||
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Tom Phoenix
1114 Posts
On August 28 2009 09:04 MamiyaOtaru wrote: I don't disagree with the gist of your post, but what? I was pretty sure reaver's will just fire at an enemy if it comes in range. If you're saying they need manual targetting to effectively spread their scarabs, sure. Am I just misunderstanding you? The point he is trying to make is that the Reaver was balanced around the fact that the poor AI pathfinding affected the Scarabs and caused them to dud if they hit an obstacle or the target ran away. With the SC2 engine, this would no longer be the case. With the improved pathfinding, scarabs would be able to fluently bypass any obstacle and hit the intended target, making Reavers much more powerful and making defence against them much more difficult. Overall, the entire balance of the game would be change due to such factors. In fact, I would not be suprised if that was the reason why the Reaver was removed from SC2 way back in 2007.So as much as I love the Trilobyte, the concept would just not work properly within a modern engine. | ||
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andiCR
Costa Rica2273 Posts
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.risingdragoon
United States3021 Posts
pubbers can't tell the difference but it'll have a totally different feel to the pros. in which case just play SC2, and BW. somebody will make it but it won't be played too extensively. somebody already tried it for wc3 and it was like a cheap imitation. all the assets look good but it just doesn't come together. | ||
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GunsofthePatriots
South Africa991 Posts
On August 28 2009 09:28 .risingdragoon wrote: basically it'll be cs source and cs 1.6. pubbers can't tell the difference but it'll have a totally different feel to the pros. And, just like with counter-strike 1.6, the newer game will be better. | ||
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Tom Phoenix
1114 Posts
On August 28 2009 09:28 .risingdragoon wrote: basically it'll be cs source and cs 1.6. pubbers can't tell the difference but it'll have a totally different feel to the pros. Too late for that. Many people by now have attested to the fact that SC2 feels like StarCraft. | ||
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iMate
Canada263 Posts
On August 28 2009 09:29 GunsofthePatriots wrote: And, just like with counter-strike 1.6, the newer game will be better. itll just be less liked by the pros | ||
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.risingdragoon
United States3021 Posts
On August 28 2009 09:29 GunsofthePatriots wrote: And, just like with counter-strike 1.6, the newer game will be better. Nope. On August 28 2009 09:30 Tom Phoenix wrote: Too late for that. Many people by now have attested to the fact that SC2 feels like StarCraft. Yeah, as a sequel they do. But as a 1:1 there's tons of differences. | ||
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Drowsy
United States4876 Posts
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A3iL3r0n
United States2196 Posts
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Jonoman92
United States9104 Posts
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zeppelin
United States565 Posts
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dhe95
United States1213 Posts
On August 28 2009 06:32 Kennigit wrote: Nothing. Dustin already said it is entirely possible and yes this has been theorized to great length already. Tbh i dont think anyone will go back to BW (at least casual->moderates) once they get mbs and automine haha... You have the CS 1.6 and CS source differneces... yet 1.6 is more more competitive than source. | ||
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