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the whole smurfing issue is taken care of by ELL. in wc3, if you are a top player in the ladder, and you start a new account, you will start playing the same people you would face if you had an account already at the top of the ladder after about 15-20 wins in a row. you dont have to climb up the ladder like in iccup.
my guess is the reason they are implementing it this way is for some other reason. im not exactly sure what that will be.
im also hoping that if they do implement this system they fix the problems that having only one account will create. one problem that stands out in my mind is finding games. currently, in any bracket that isnt 1v1 (and even in 1v1, search times can get verrrrry long), if you win lots of games in a row eventually the system finds nobody that can match against you. the only remedy to this is to lose games purposefully. for 2v2, that would require that you make a new account.
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On August 23 2009 09:32 D00dles wrote:All i got from this thread was "WAH WAH WAH, i can't get out of D because of all those b+ smurfs destorying me  , the game lasted 5 minutes and i didn't learn anything from it (I lolled seriously.) New players will give up if they keep losing to smurfs.. If they give up after losing a few times, this means they never truly wanted to play the game competetively. Smurfing happens in every game." Basically, what i'm trying to say is.. Instead of whining about losing to smurfs, stick with the fucking game and fucking learn. If you don't understand why Smurfing is good for a game. (Not just SC.) Then just stop complaining and play the game you casual, it's not as if it's going to affect you in the longrun when you fuck off to another game. If you're offended by any of my language? I do not care. p.s. I'm not that great at SC.
All I hear in this thread is "WAH WAH WAH, I can't make another account and smurf what a fail decision by blizzard". Seriously your a fucking moron 
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the entire purpose of the ladder system is for you to be matched with a player of similar skill. smurfing entirely undermines this. by getting rid of smurfing, the ladder will actually function as it was intended. so you can't bash newbs anymore? too bad!
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Sweden33719 Posts
How many times do I need to bring this up....
Have one master account.
Allow this account to create - let's say - 3 user IDs for SC2.
Have the ELL be tracked by the master account - so if I have a high ranking account and create a new one, the new account will start with the same ELL as my first account (or, at least higher than a completely new account).
No noobs get bashed, and I get to "smurf" without disrupting the accuracy of the ladder.
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How about this:
Upon reaching Bronze League level you are entitles to creating X additional accounts (tied to your master account?).
This seems like a logical compromise to me - "one account" supporters don't want to have to play smurfs, while people who smurf for valid reasons (i.e. don't just want to bash noobs) don't want that either - in most games it's a necessity, for them in order to be able to play on a new account on their own skill level, to rank up through masses of lower skilled players.
Brozne League players, not unlike C rank players, will mostly be able to appreciate the opportunity to play someone (much) better, so for them it's won't be a problem.
On August 23 2009 10:46 lazz wrote:
the entire purpose of the ladder system is for you to be matched with a player of similar skill. smurfing entirely undermines this. by getting rid of smurfing, the ladder will actually function as it was intended. so you can't bash newbs anymore? too bad!
Yeah, because A- rank Terran having to play other A- players with his D+ Zerg makes the ladder more accurate. T_________T
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On August 23 2009 01:04 ghermination wrote:
Solution: You can create multiple accounts, and have the option to make one of them a ladder account. You can only have one ladder account, but you can have as many non-ladder accounts as you want (playing custom or non-ladder "melee" style games). This way finding matches with high level people would be just about as difficult as it would be on B.net/iccup, where you would just make a game called "1v1 LT (insert ladder rank here)" and play people of your rank. AMM would be used on the ladder, however.
Actually, no, it's be as difficult as it is in WC3 - close to impossible to find a 1v1 game, not to mention the opponent being on your skill level and wanting to play you. T____T
The vast majority of players are going to play on the ladder, and not host custom games.
edit: sorry, double post
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On August 23 2009 10:55 FrozenArbiter wrote:
How many times do I need to bring this up....
Have one master account.
Allow this account to create - let's say - 3 user IDs for SC2.
Have the ELL be tracked by the master account - so if I have a high ranking account and create a new one, the new account will start with the same ELL as my first account (or, at least higher than a completely new account).
No noobs get bashed, and I get to "smurf" without disrupting the accuracy of the ladder.
But what if you start a new race. You'll be much worse at it and after you start losing games your ELL will drop for your main race too.
EDIT: They can make it so the ELLs have correlation between each other so when you start with a new account and your master ELL is high you climb very fast on the new one.
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On August 23 2009 10:23 blade55555 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 23 2009 09:32 D00dles wrote:All i got from this thread was "WAH WAH WAH, i can't get out of D because of all those b+ smurfs destorying me , the game lasted 5 minutes and i didn't learn anything from it (I lolled seriously.) New players will give up if they keep losing to smurfs.. If they give up after losing a few times, this means they never truly wanted to play the game competetively. Smurfing happens in every game." Basically, what i'm trying to say is.. Instead of whining about losing to smurfs, stick with the fucking game and fucking learn. If you don't understand why Smurfing is good for a game. (Not just SC.) Then just stop complaining and play the game you casual, it's not as if it's going to affect you in the longrun when you fuck off to another game. If you're offended by any of my language? I do not care. p.s. I'm not that great at SC. All I hear in this thread is "WAH WAH WAH, I can't make another account and smurf what a fail decision by blizzard". Seriously your a fucking moron
You have no clue why people smurf though, so please stop posting your opinion, as it is an uneducated one.
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On August 23 2009 20:55 Lurgee wrote:Show nested quote +On August 23 2009 10:23 blade55555 wrote:On August 23 2009 09:32 D00dles wrote:All i got from this thread was "WAH WAH WAH, i can't get out of D because of all those b+ smurfs destorying me , the game lasted 5 minutes and i didn't learn anything from it (I lolled seriously.) New players will give up if they keep losing to smurfs.. If they give up after losing a few times, this means they never truly wanted to play the game competetively. Smurfing happens in every game." Basically, what i'm trying to say is.. Instead of whining about losing to smurfs, stick with the fucking game and fucking learn. If you don't understand why Smurfing is good for a game. (Not just SC.) Then just stop complaining and play the game you casual, it's not as if it's going to affect you in the longrun when you fuck off to another game. If you're offended by any of my language? I do not care. p.s. I'm not that great at SC. All I hear in this thread is "WAH WAH WAH, I can't make another account and smurf what a fail decision by blizzard". Seriously your a fucking moron You have no clue why people smurf though, so please stop posting your opinion, as it is an uneducated one.
Well why DO they? Your argumentation seems to be "If you don´t know why they shouldn´t argue". The main point of this is to make ratings accurate to prevent "wrong" matchups that aren´t fun for anyone but people who essentially are griefers.
What about allowing spoofing? Ergo keep one Account but allow changing the ingame Name?
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Sweden33719 Posts
On August 23 2009 20:29 MER wrote:Show nested quote +On August 23 2009 10:55 FrozenArbiter wrote:
How many times do I need to bring this up....
Have one master account.
Allow this account to create - let's say - 3 user IDs for SC2.
Have the ELL be tracked by the master account - so if I have a high ranking account and create a new one, the new account will start with the same ELL as my first account (or, at least higher than a completely new account).
No noobs get bashed, and I get to "smurf" without disrupting the accuracy of the ladder. But what if you start a new race. You'll be much worse at it and after you start losing games your ELL will drop for your main race too. EDIT: They can make it so the ELLs have correlation between each other so when you start with a new account and your master ELL is high you climb very fast on the new one.
Well for 1, I think every race having a different ELL isn't too bad of an idea (could mess with rankings tho).
But otherwise, then yeah, I think having each new account starting at the same rank as your other account is good.
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It´s a good idea, I don´t really like smurfing.
Celebrities get harassed? Yea so?
What about all the real life celebrities, tv, movie, rock stars.. they dont have a fkin smurf name, they get harassed all the time by low life losers. That´s what its like being a celebrity. Deal with it or quit teh game.
I´m sure they can handle it, and I´m sure some kind of feature will be added to better handle harassment etc.
Play Unrated if u want to check out new stuff, strategies and races.
I have a hard time understanding where all the whine is coming from, I really do. :/
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On August 24 2009 00:06 MasterFischer wrote:
It´s a good idea, I don´t really like smurfing.
Celebrities get harassed? Yea so?
What about all the real life celebrities, tv, movie, rock stars.. they dont have a fkin smurf name, they get harassed all the time by low life losers. That´s what its like being a celebrity. Deal with it or quit teh game.
I´m sure they can handle it, and I´m sure some kind of feature will be added to better handle harassment etc.
Play Unrated if u want to check out new stuff, strategies and races.
I have a hard time understanding where all the whine is coming from, I really do. :/
It's not just about celebrities getting harassed there are 9999 reasons for regular players to have smurfing in, that have been said in the thread already. The only issue with smurfing is newbs whining for getting raped. Which can easily be solved with master ELL as FA said.
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On August 22 2009 08:01 blade55555 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 22 2009 07:57 maybenexttime wrote:
Pathetic.
It's already been discussed to death. IDIOTIC decision. What if I want to learn a new race? What if my brother wants to play? What if I want to learn a new strategy? What if I simply want to mess around? FUCK THAT. How is it idiotic? Great Decision by Blizzard. I remember when I used to be against this 1 account per cd key but aoe3 did it and it worked out splendid. Smurfing = down. You want to learn a new race? Play unrated. Your brother wants to play? Have him play on your account or buy his own. Want to learn a new strategy? Why play unrated!. Why do you need a new account to test strategies when you can do unrated eh? Or are you one of those smurfs who just loves to rape lower ranked players?
because SC has a progaming community?
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On August 24 2009 00:27 MER wrote:Show nested quote +On August 24 2009 00:06 MasterFischer wrote:
It´s a good idea, I don´t really like smurfing.
Celebrities get harassed? Yea so?
What about all the real life celebrities, tv, movie, rock stars.. they dont have a fkin smurf name, they get harassed all the time by low life losers. That´s what its like being a celebrity. Deal with it or quit teh game.
I´m sure they can handle it, and I´m sure some kind of feature will be added to better handle harassment etc.
Play Unrated if u want to check out new stuff, strategies and races.
I have a hard time understanding where all the whine is coming from, I really do. :/ It's not just about celebrities getting harassed there are 9999 reasons for regular players to have smurfing in, that have been said in the thread already. The only issue with smurfing is newbs whining for getting raped. Which can easily be solved with master ELL as FA said.
Last time I checked, you couldn't do /whois Robert DeNiro and it will tell me exactly where he is.
Secondly, the purpose of "smurfing" is not TO BASH NOOBS. The D level players who are against smurfing feel like when they play someone higher level, they are victimizing them, focusing on them specifically, and saying, "HEY I WANNA RUIN THIS GUY'S DAY SO LET ME OWN HIM 1v1 LOLOLOLOLOL."
Last time I checked, the only reason for smurfing is anonymity, practice, and screwing around. Of course you may play seriously occasionally, and yes, you MAY beat a player significantly lower than them, but it is not the primary focus. I'm not speaking for ladder trolls, who do it for fun, all day. They are the exception, but let's take a hypothetical situation.
You are a D level player, on iCCup. You join a game, and you go "gl hf gg," start the game, and 10 minutes later, you get raped. You eventually figure out he's actually B+. Now, how likely is it that you will play B+ players all day long? You all act as if you can't take a loss. If you lose once, then it is the end of the world, and you MUST be playing people that you can beat, or else it is all unfair.
Losing one game to a relatively rare situation is simply tough luck, just like 12 hatch/14CC vs a 9 pool. Deal with it, and start another game, in which your opponent will PROBABLY be D level. You won't be playing noob bashers consistently, maybe occasionally, or once every 20 games. There is no guarantee that they will be your level, but there is probability, and the likelyhood that when you start a 1v1 D game, that they will probably D level.
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On August 24 2009 00:06 MasterFischer wrote:
It´s a good idea, I don´t really like smurfing.
Celebrities get harassed? Yea so?
What about all the real life celebrities, tv, movie, rock stars.. they dont have a fkin smurf name, they get harassed all the time by low life losers. That´s what its like being a celebrity. Deal with it or quit teh game.
I´m sure they can handle it, and I´m sure some kind of feature will be added to better handle harassment etc.
Play Unrated if u want to check out new stuff, strategies and races.
I have a hard time understanding where all the whine is coming from, I really do. :/
With whom? Have you tried doing that in WC3 (or any game with a good match-making system for that matter)?
Also, what if I end up bashing noobs there? Somehow that's not the problem there?
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8751 Posts
On August 23 2009 10:55 FrozenArbiter wrote:
How many times do I need to bring this up....
Have one master account.
Allow this account to create - let's say - 3 user IDs for SC2.
Have the ELL be tracked by the master account - so if I have a high ranking account and create a new one, the new account will start with the same ELL as my first account (or, at least higher than a completely new account).
No noobs get bashed, and I get to "smurf" without disrupting the accuracy of the ladder.
I think the amount of extra technical work this involves is not worth the very weak benefit of this feature. I think there are more important features missing from B.Net 2.0.
Also, if you could clarify this scenario:
--Master account has 2000 rating.
--First ID has 2000 rating (all games have been played on this ID)
--Second ID is created. It has 0 rating, but matches against 2000 rated players (based on master account rating)
--Second ID plays against a 2000 rated player (both by ID and master)
Are the point changes (for both the IDs and the masters) calculated based on each player's master account rating, or on the rating of their IDs?
If it's based on master account rating, then the player who plays on only one ID is going to get easier points than he deserves. That is, with this system, it is guaranteed that people are going to get free points when playing their main race and trying their hardest against someone not playing their main race and/or not trying. But if you try to adjust for this by factoring in the 2nd ID's personal rating into the point change calculation, then the guy playing on one ID stands to get screwed when playing against someone's 2nd ID who is playing his best. Either way, it's corrupting the ladder.
If it's based purely on personal ratings, then obviously the guy who uses only one ID is at a huge disadvantage. He is forced to match against people with very low rating who have a much better chance of beating him than their rating reflects.
The bottom line, I think, is that if you are playing rated ladder games, you ought to be trying your hardest every single game. You only need one account for that.
Asking for multiple accounts is purely an aesthetic thing, for both the name of the account and the stats on the account. Such weak aesthetic features aren't worth adding an entire new layer of account registration and management.
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OK, to clarify
1) Playing someone way out of your level (above OR below) is not fun and won't help you learn: 1 account helps this
2) Long search times for someone at your level is definitely solvable by loosening AMM requirements.. in general it is an AMM issue, and should be solved by makking that AMM search time responsive for the best fun [a poorly matched game is more fun than no game at all]
3) Changing your ID, and/or Privacy options should allow you to avoid papparazzi/having a stupid name, Multiple IDs are not necessary
4) Using different strategies will affect your Ladder Level.... as it should, because that could be anything from a race change to a 20 sec.change in build order. You Ladder Level will adjust as you get better with the new strategy or give it up and go back to your old strategy (in any case your current Ladder Level is the best predictor of yor Ladder Level with a new strategy)
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On August 23 2009 10:23 blade55555 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 23 2009 09:32 D00dles wrote:All i got from this thread was "WAH WAH WAH, i can't get out of D because of all those b+ smurfs destorying me , the game lasted 5 minutes and i didn't learn anything from it (I lolled seriously.) New players will give up if they keep losing to smurfs.. If they give up after losing a few times, this means they never truly wanted to play the game competetively. Smurfing happens in every game." Basically, what i'm trying to say is.. Instead of whining about losing to smurfs, stick with the fucking game and fucking learn. If you don't understand why Smurfing is good for a game. (Not just SC.) Then just stop complaining and play the game you casual, it's not as if it's going to affect you in the longrun when you fuck off to another game. If you're offended by any of my language? I do not care. p.s. I'm not that great at SC. All I hear in this thread is "WAH WAH WAH, I can't make another account and smurf what a fail decision by blizzard". Seriously your a fucking moron
Stop taking your post the last step. And adding smiley faces. You would come off as not a douche, because I agree with your post, but you are just irritating in the way you say it. And the more you speak the more I realize your posts are fine, but in this thread especially they just make me want to punch something.
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I have 1 iccup account I use to play a friend for fun. We usually play rvr. I don't care about stats in this account but he does so we play one on one.
I have another "main" account where I play seriously vs everyone else and I care about stats.
I don't want to mix them, how is that gonna be possible in SC2???
Im not smurfing, neither bashing noobs.
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EPT
