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Beta Balance Update #14 - Page 10

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 HotS
454 CommentsPost a Reply
Prev 1 8 9 10 11 12 23 Next All
Valon
Profile Joined June 2011
United States329 Posts
February 14 2013 03:31 GMT
#181
With this change blizzard shows they have no idea what they are doing.
Rabiator
Profile Joined March 2010
Germany3948 Posts
February 14 2013 03:33 GMT
#182
Just cover your base entrances (where the Medivac will come from) with Spores / Turrets / Cannons already. Its not that expensive and can save your ass, so why not do it? Battle Hellions are slow and short ranged, so they need to be dropped right on the workers. There are still the Widow Mines which could be dropped in your base, so having some detection prepared already is good. People should stop this stupid "this slows my attack timing down by 1 minute, so its bad" way of thinking.
If you cant say what you're meaning, you can never mean what you're saying.
RowdierBob
Profile Blog Joined May 2003
Australia13385 Posts
February 14 2013 03:34 GMT
#183
I'm still grappling with the fact a medivac can heal a hellbat but not a hellion.

I'd like to know happens in the the transformation from hellion to hellbat that makes them healable by a medivac!
"Terrans are pretty much space-Australians" - H
Zahir
Profile Joined March 2012
United States947 Posts
February 14 2013 03:37 GMT
#184
Feel like this won't effect much other than the extreme turbo rush hellbat drop scenario. Midgame hellbat drops will still be devastating, and zergs will still have trouble shooting down the (now 2) speedvacs.

I'm on the fence as to whether said drops are actually OP or not. Other races have pretty awesome harass options as well, so...
What is best? To crush the Zerg, see them driven before you, and to hear the lamentations of the Protoss.
Fishriot
Profile Joined May 2010
United States621 Posts
February 14 2013 03:38 GMT
#185
I guess this is nice, but it seems underwhelming to me.
Jinky
Profile Joined January 2011
United States64 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-02-14 03:41:10
February 14 2013 03:39 GMT
#186
On February 14 2013 12:33 Rabiator wrote:
Just cover your base entrances (where the Medivac will come from) with Spores / Turrets / Cannons already. Its not that expensive and can save your ass, so why not do it? Battle Hellions are slow and short ranged, so they need to be dropped right on the workers. There are still the Widow Mines which could be dropped in your base, so having some detection prepared already is good. People should stop this stupid "this slows my attack timing down by 1 minute, so its bad" way of thinking.


Yes, it is expensive.

Also, how do you know where the drop will come from? You can't put spores/turrets/cannons around the entire perimeter of your bases, and even if you do, the speed-boost makes it so the Medivac can easily fly through the damage and still make the drop, probably still at 1/2 to 2/3 health.
Maynarde
Profile Joined September 2010
Australia1286 Posts
February 14 2013 03:39 GMT
#187
Nice change, makes sense to me. Really would like to see the bio flag removed from the hellbat though.
CommentatorAustralian SC2 Caster | Twitter: @MaynardeSC2 | Twitch: twitch.tv/maynarde
furerkip
Profile Blog Joined May 2011
United States439 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-02-14 03:45:25
February 14 2013 03:44 GMT
#188
On February 14 2013 11:29 Aveng3r wrote:
what the hell is stopping people from transporting 4 hellions and then turning them into hellbats? Ive been a vocal critic of blizzard recently and this change does nothing to change my mind


Then you must have a really bad reaction time, the transformation takes a bit of time to do.

Honestly, you do the same thing vs. hellbat as you would against bio; stop the drops from coming. If that means you have to open Stargate to stop the medivacs, then open stargate; if you need to open Robo to see where the drop is coming, then open Robo. You can't actually complain against the hellbat just because it exists; it's a vital unit to make mech viable in TvP (which is really nice if you're terran).

Don't play WoL, and try to balance HoTS with only WoL in mind. Play HoTS; try all the new units, try your own build orders, try whatever you need to to make it a more fun Beta.

I'm Terran, so I'm clearly biased towards the Terran POV, but still, I hardly see any Protoss stream that deviates much from WoL (same goes for Zerg).

You have a unit that can actually spawn units without energy or cost; why don't you nydus your opponent and send those units through there, and send your other units elsewhere?

You have a unit that has a huge range; why don't you stay on 2 base, get robo and stargate set up, then send your flying unit to harass workers with an observer? I saw someone on stream that time froze SCVs to make the mining time slower, which I thought was incredibly cool. Why don't you try that? Why don't you don't you get the MSC time freeze a medivac you spot and kill the medivac with phoenixes

Like, these ideas should be popping in your head, trying to incorporate them into this new game which no one has completely understood yet, but all I ever see on these forums are bitching about how it doesn't fit with WoL anymore. Of course it doesn't; it's a whole new puzzle.
Doc Daneeka
Profile Joined March 2010
United States577 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-02-14 03:47:46
February 14 2013 03:44 GMT
#189
still feel like they need to not be considered bio. it makes no sense on several levels and they already soak up shit tons of damage without it.

and medivac boost is ridiculous. they might as well have just increased the medivac's speed, period, considering how short the cooldown is. it needs to cost energy. there's absolutely no drawback whatsoever to using it the instant it comes off cooldown anytime medivacs are moving anywhere.
payed off security
Bagi
Profile Joined August 2010
Germany6799 Posts
February 14 2013 03:48 GMT
#190
On February 14 2013 12:31 Valon wrote:
With this change blizzard shows they have no idea what they are doing.

I think I've heard this comment used for pretty much every change they've ever done.

Would be awesome to hear some reasoning for once.
Maynarde
Profile Joined September 2010
Australia1286 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-02-14 03:52:10
February 14 2013 03:51 GMT
#191
On February 14 2013 12:44 furerkip wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 14 2013 11:29 Aveng3r wrote:
what the hell is stopping people from transporting 4 hellions and then turning them into hellbats? Ive been a vocal critic of blizzard recently and this change does nothing to change my mind


Then you must have a really bad reaction time, the transformation takes a bit of time to do.

Honestly, you do the same thing vs. hellbat as you would against bio; stop the drops from coming. If that means you have to open Stargate to stop the medivacs, then open stargate; if you need to open Robo to see where the drop is coming, then open Robo. You can't actually complain against the hellbat just because it exists; it's a vital unit to make mech viable in TvP (which is really nice if you're terran).

Don't play WoL, and try to balance HoTS with only WoL in mind. Play HoTS; try all the new units, try your own build orders, try whatever you need to to make it a more fun Beta.

I'm Terran, so I'm clearly biased towards the Terran POV, but still, I hardly see any Protoss stream that deviates much from WoL (same goes for Zerg).

You have a unit that can actually spawn units without energy or cost; why don't you nydus your opponent and send those units through there, and send your other units elsewhere?

You have a unit that has a huge range; why don't you stay on 2 base, get robo and stargate set up, then send your flying unit to harass workers with an observer? I saw someone on stream that time froze SCVs to make the mining time slower, which I thought was incredibly cool. Why don't you try that? Why don't you don't you get the MSC time freeze a medivac you spot and kill the medivac with phoenixes

Like, these ideas should be popping in your head, trying to incorporate them into this new game which no one has completely understood yet, but all I ever see on these forums are bitching about how it doesn't fit with WoL anymore. Of course it doesn't; it's a whole new puzzle.


Really good post. Completely agree.

On February 14 2013 12:48 Bagi wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 14 2013 12:31 Valon wrote:
With this change blizzard shows they have no idea what they are doing.

I think I've heard this comment used for pretty much every change they've ever done.

Would be awesome to hear some reasoning for once.


Also completely agree...
CommentatorAustralian SC2 Caster | Twitter: @MaynardeSC2 | Twitch: twitch.tv/maynarde
Jinky
Profile Joined January 2011
United States64 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-02-14 03:59:39
February 14 2013 03:54 GMT
#192
On February 14 2013 12:44 furerkip wrote:
I'm Terran, so I'm clearly biased towards the Terran POV, but still, I hardly see any Protoss stream that deviates much from WoL (same goes for Zerg).

You have a unit that can actually spawn units without energy or cost; why don't you nydus your opponent and send those units through there, and send your other units elsewhere?

You have a unit that has a huge range; why don't you stay on 2 base, get robo and stargate set up, then send your flying unit to harass workers with an observer? I saw someone on stream that time froze SCVs to make the mining time slower, which I thought was incredibly cool. Why don't you try that? Why don't you don't you get the MSC time freeze a medivac you spot and kill the medivac with phoenixes

Like, these ideas should be popping in your head, trying to incorporate them into this new game which no one has completely understood yet, but all I ever see on these forums are bitching about how it doesn't fit with WoL anymore. Of course it doesn't; it's a whole new puzzle.


Lol, Nydus + Swarm Host by 8:00? That is all-in for Zerg. Just to counter what is supposed to be a harass? You are overlooking the fact that the Hellbat drop is based on the 1/1/1. The other races can't do that, which is why 1/1/1 has the reputation that it does. If another race tries to mimic the power of 1/1/1, then it becomes an all-in because of the economy sacrificed.

The entire problem with the 4 Hellbat drop is that there is really no loss for the Terran, even if the drop fails miserably, because the opponent must make significant preparations, which hurts their economy/plans/map control. At least nerfing it into a 2 Hellbat drop allows the opponent to not destroy his/her own economy or plans just to defend what ultimately should just be harass (and if it is not simply harass, then it should be all-in at that point in the game, and cost a LOT more.)
Patate
Profile Joined January 2011
Canada441 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-02-14 04:16:05
February 14 2013 04:15 GMT
#193
On February 14 2013 09:49 ZenithM wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 14 2013 09:38 Beakyboo wrote:
Hellbats are such an odd unit now. Hellions transform into hellbats and magically turn biological and now magically take up more room in medivacs too. I wish they'd find less awkward ways to make this unit work.

Well, lore wise you can always say that hellions, while rearranging into hellbats, stretch themselves and occupy a bigger volume, they are less compact, hence 4 cargo space.


"Lore wise"

hahahahahahahaha

As if Blizzard even cares about this at this point. I know I wouldn't. I'd be more worried about the declining popularity of the game and the overall relatively inexistant hype regarding their expansion.

I haven't been as neutral regarding a Blizzard's expansion since Hellfire (Diablo 1 expansion)..
Dead game.
Patate
Profile Joined January 2011
Canada441 Posts
February 14 2013 04:17 GMT
#194
On February 14 2013 12:48 Bagi wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 14 2013 12:31 Valon wrote:
With this change blizzard shows they have no idea what they are doing.

I think I've heard this comment used for pretty much every change they've ever done.

Would be awesome to hear some reasoning for once.


Please don't tell me you're actually impressed by HoTS...
Dead game.
Protosnake
Profile Joined September 2011
France295 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-02-14 04:22:04
February 14 2013 04:20 GMT
#195
On February 14 2013 13:17 Patate wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 14 2013 12:48 Bagi wrote:
On February 14 2013 12:31 Valon wrote:
With this change blizzard shows they have no idea what they are doing.

I think I've heard this comment used for pretty much every change they've ever done.

Would be awesome to hear some reasoning for once.


Please don't tell me you're actually impressed by HoTS...


Being impressed or not doesnt change the subject, when someone hop in a thread to throw that Blizzard doesnt know what they are doing, it would be nice to provide a reason, so we could, like, have a discussion about it

I kinda like this change but feel like they have a lot lot lot of other issue to fix before HotS go live, such as the new void rays, mines and the general state of Zerg
Patate
Profile Joined January 2011
Canada441 Posts
February 14 2013 04:22 GMT
#196
On February 14 2013 13:20 Protosnake wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 14 2013 13:17 Patate wrote:
On February 14 2013 12:48 Bagi wrote:
On February 14 2013 12:31 Valon wrote:
With this change blizzard shows they have no idea what they are doing.

I think I've heard this comment used for pretty much every change they've ever done.

Would be awesome to hear some reasoning for once.


Please don't tell me you're actually impressed by HoTS...


Being impressed or not doesnt change the subject, when someone hop in a thread to decalre that Blizzard doesnt know what they are doing, it would be nice to provide a reason, so we could, like, have a discussion about it

I kinda like this change but feel like they have a lot lot lot of other issue to fix before HotS go live, such as the new void rays, mines and the general state of Zerg


How about making the game less deathballish, and more dynamic? How about making PvZ and PvP less of an abysmal matchup? Balancing at this point is like tweaking an engine on a car that isn't even built yet.

Dead game.
Bagi
Profile Joined August 2010
Germany6799 Posts
February 14 2013 04:25 GMT
#197
On February 14 2013 13:17 Patate wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 14 2013 12:48 Bagi wrote:
On February 14 2013 12:31 Valon wrote:
With this change blizzard shows they have no idea what they are doing.

I think I've heard this comment used for pretty much every change they've ever done.

Would be awesome to hear some reasoning for once.


Please don't tell me you're actually impressed by HoTS...

Please tell me you are able to contribute more to the discussion than that...

Actually, judging from your post history I won't hold my breath. Why are you even on this forum, discussing this "dead game"?
bullseyel
Profile Joined September 2011
United States52 Posts
February 14 2013 04:25 GMT
#198
This was much needed for play as it is hard for zerg when a timing drop of hellbats occur as they do not have the right kind of army to counter the drops(if anything roaches) but even then by the time they get to the base, it may be too late. Good call, Blizz!
Team Legion High Council Member
Terrasmith
Profile Joined February 2013
47 Posts
February 14 2013 04:26 GMT
#199
On February 14 2013 12:54 Jinky wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 14 2013 12:44 furerkip wrote:
I'm Terran, so I'm clearly biased towards the Terran POV, but still, I hardly see any Protoss stream that deviates much from WoL (same goes for Zerg).

You have a unit that can actually spawn units without energy or cost; why don't you nydus your opponent and send those units through there, and send your other units elsewhere?

You have a unit that has a huge range; why don't you stay on 2 base, get robo and stargate set up, then send your flying unit to harass workers with an observer? I saw someone on stream that time froze SCVs to make the mining time slower, which I thought was incredibly cool. Why don't you try that? Why don't you don't you get the MSC time freeze a medivac you spot and kill the medivac with phoenixes

Like, these ideas should be popping in your head, trying to incorporate them into this new game which no one has completely understood yet, but all I ever see on these forums are bitching about how it doesn't fit with WoL anymore. Of course it doesn't; it's a whole new puzzle.


Lol, Nydus + Swarm Host by 8:00? That is all-in for Zerg. Just to counter what is supposed to be a harass? You are overlooking the fact that the Hellbat drop is based on the 1/1/1. The other races can't do that, which is why 1/1/1 has the reputation that it does. If another race tries to mimic the power of 1/1/1, then it becomes an all-in because of the economy sacrificed.

The entire problem with the 4 Hellbat drop is that there is really no loss for the Terran, even if the drop fails miserably, because the opponent must make significant preparations, which hurts their economy/plans/map control. At least nerfing it into a 2 Hellbat drop allows the opponent to not destroy his/her own economy or plans just to defend what ultimately should just be harass (and if it is not simply harass, then it should be all-in at that point in the game, and cost a LOT more.)


The point was that instead of whining about Terran finding a very strong harass by capitalizing on their new units, maybe the other races should get more creative with their new units as well. Defending against medivacs is nothing new. If you're getting dropped after a Terran has a Starport and Armory up, it's largely your fault for not being ready, same as in WoL. The Medivac speed + Battle Hellion just makes the drop marginally more dangerous.

As for Zergs...it really isn't that hard to place overlords. You should NEVER be caught by surprise by a drop, and if your units are out of position, that's your fault and yours alone. Learn to deal with the mobility of the
medivac-maybe early Mutas instead of a fast third. Your opponent went for extremely fast tech-you have no right to see it as unfair if that forces you to tech up as well.
GinDo
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
3327 Posts
February 14 2013 04:31 GMT
#200
On February 14 2013 12:34 RowdierBob wrote:
I'm still grappling with the fact a medivac can heal a hellbat but not a hellion.

I'd like to know happens in the the transformation from hellion to hellbat that makes them healable by a medivac!


Yeah that idea is terrible. But, it looks like it's gonna pass into HOTS. I don't think Blizzard is gonna make anymore big changes.

Excitement for HOTS: Ehhhh it's okay. Might get it, but I might just skip it. I just not feeling it when I play Beta.
ⱩŦ ƑⱠẬ$Ħ / ƩǤ ɈƩẬƉØƝǤ [ɌȻ] / ȊṂ.ṂṼⱣ / ẬȻƩɌ.ȊƝƝØṼẬŦȊØƝ / ẬȻƩɌ.ϟȻẬɌⱠƩŦŦ ϟⱠẬɎƩɌϟ ȻⱠẬƝ
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