EPTBlizz discussing Hellbats taking 4 cargo spaces - Page 16
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EleanorRIgby
Canada3923 Posts
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Fencar
United States2694 Posts
On February 13 2013 06:53 EleanorRIgby wrote: i don't understand all the terrans complaining about tvt, i 1 rax expo and can hold the drop easily. Just make cc in your main and make marines non stop and get a tank asap. A lot of the time they cant even get in your base if you have your marines positioned correctly. How does a Tank help against a drop that drops right on top of your workers? | ||
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SolidMoose
United States1240 Posts
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Grumbels
Netherlands7031 Posts
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zhurai
United States5660 Posts
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Maesy
United States1444 Posts
On February 13 2013 07:09 Fencar wrote: How does a Tank help against a drop that drops right on top of your workers? Additional splash damage to your workers from your own tank mixed with hellbat splash is the obvious solution. Just add more chaos. | ||
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Lobotomist
United States1541 Posts
On February 12 2013 03:12 Everlong wrote: I still don't understand the fascination people have with "mech". hellbats seem ridiculously strong, and so they're going to nerf one aspect of them that doesn't really make sense (cargo size, but only when transformed) on a unit that already has some weird/bad design associated with it (Medivac healing when transformed, hard counter to light). whole situation seems ugly. Why not just wait to balance them and nerf something that makes sense (Medivac healing, upgrade to transform, etc).I've seen recently TheStC playing some beautiful TvP BW-style mech with careful mine usage, tanks, hellbats and viking/raven support.. It was surprisingy effective and entertaingin, go check his vods on twitch. Also, Tank currently is in a good position relatively. Of course there are hard counters for both races avaiable, but it's not like Immortal has range 10 and Viper's Blinding Cloud takes 1hour to wear off. Widow Mines in it's current state are very effective against Protoss even later in the game, there are some devastating pushes you can do. For me, the real issue in TvP is Protoss air. Hopefully they are going to lower their damage, increase supply, or lesser their health, they are just pain to deal with. | ||
Whitewing
United States7483 Posts
On February 13 2013 06:53 EleanorRIgby wrote: i don't understand all the terrans complaining about tvt, i 1 rax expo and can hold the drop easily. Just make cc in your main and make marines non stop and get a tank asap. A lot of the time they cant even get in your base if you have your marines positioned correctly. It's because they are greedy and move out to the low ground immediately and can't handle defending both locations. | ||
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Goldfish
2230 Posts
On February 12 2013 04:16 Fragile51 wrote: Yeah, that'd be a terrible idea. How would it make sense when a thor can enter a medivac but a hellbat can't? Lore reasons aren't equated in gameplay. Also almost nothing is to scale in game. Kerrigan is shown to be huge in gameplay (bigger than tanks and as big as a Thor) but obviously in cutscenes, she's just the size of any human. (Blizzard themselves said they only made Kerrigan big to make it easier to differentiate her from other units and most stuff aren't to scale in gameplay) Plus you can't load a MULE (which is smaller than a Thor and a tank) in a Medivac at all, so they can do the same with Hellbats. On February 12 2013 05:47 Whitewing wrote: Well, the warp prism deconstructs units it is carrying into atomic memory and then reconstructs them, so a colossus isn't a problem. (that's the lore anyway). On the other hand, why can't it carry 30 colossi or 100 zealots? =p The funny thing is if you have Zerg, NP a Protoss or Terran (or both at the same time), you can load a Colussus in an Overlord or even a Medivac. (You can't NP a Colossus and load it, you have to NP a probe, then build a Colossus, then finally load it into your overlord or if you have also NP Terran units, load it into a Medivac). Blizzard could make it so Medivac and Overlords can't load Colossus if they wanted to (they could add a Validator that excludes Colossus, similar to how only Terran bio units can go inside a Bunker)... but since they didn't (and you can load a giant Colossus, bigger than a Thor, inside a Medivac), that means Hellbats can totally take up 4 spaces instead of 2  !Yep, you can load a Colussus in a Medivac if you wanted to (though in 1v1 cases, this is impossible unless KeSPA decides to add "fun" maps with neutral SCVs and Probes for the Zerg to NP, like in some maps in BW where they added a Neutral Command Center so you can infest the CC and use Infested Terrans against Protoss or Zerg). Anyway the point is, arguing over scaling and trying to apply it into gameplay scenarios is pointless since nothing is really to scale (in actual lore). | ||
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frostalgia
United States178 Posts
Instead, why not make Hellbats transform into Hellions first before loading into Medivacs? | ||
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DeCoup
Australia1933 Posts
On February 13 2013 13:12 frostalgia wrote: It won't change the Hellbat Drop timing, just get a Reactor ahead of time and hit with double the healing rate. Instead, why not make Hellbats transform into Hellions first before loading into Medivacs? In your solution only hellions can enter medivacs and only hellbats can be healed by medivacs. That is a very ugly solution imo. If adding a reactor and second medivac does not effect the drop timing then Terrans would be doing that now for the double healing. This change will effect the timing, which will result in the victim having more defense up by the time it arrives and/or the attacker having slightly worse econ due to the additional gas mining/investement cost. | ||
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Baum
Germany1010 Posts
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Sissors
1395 Posts
On February 13 2013 18:34 Baum wrote: I would prefer if they fixed the hellbat stats instead of this. Imo an easy one would be nerfing its bonus vs light and re-adding blue flame upgrade to affect hellbat. Then they toast workers alot slower, and in early game allow lings to be a bit more useful when they are used, but not upset balance late game. | ||
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Drake
Germany6146 Posts
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Freeborn
Germany421 Posts
- remove hellbat damage vs light and return it when blue flame has been researched Solved. | ||
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Qikz
United Kingdom12025 Posts
On February 13 2013 19:48 Freeborn wrote: - make medivac speed boost cost 15 - 25 energy - remove hellbat damage vs light and return it when blue flame has been researched Solved. That could actually work really well. Especially the needing blue flame. I mean I get blue flame for proper hellion hurass anyways, but it'd force you to get an upgrade before the drops were super powerful. | ||
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Rabiator
Germany3948 Posts
On February 13 2013 07:09 Fencar wrote: How does a Tank help against a drop that drops right on top of your workers? How does "a Tank" help against anything? Sure you could siege it up and hit stuff (including your workers) from afar, but no one would go for workers when they could drop right onto a single defenseless sieged tank ... Spamming Marines is much better at defending against a drop ... unless the opponent also assaults your front at the same time. Building a single bunker close to the mineral line would probably help immensely, but dont forget to put at least one Marine inside or else the windows are not lit up and the enemy can see the bluff. Since you can sell the bunker later on and four Marines arent that much to pull away from your fighting force it should be a reasonable enough defense for critical times. | ||
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Bagi
Germany6799 Posts
The part I love about the current hellbat is that you can just slap a reactor on your idle factory and start producing good support units for your army. Take that away and the unit becomes too inconvenient unless you are going mech with multiple factories. | ||
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ZenithM
France15952 Posts
On February 13 2013 13:12 frostalgia wrote: It won't change the Hellbat Drop timing, just get a Reactor ahead of time and hit with double the healing rate. Instead, why not make Hellbats transform into Hellions first before loading into Medivacs? lolwut? No, the one base hellbat drop can't afford reactored medivacs and hit at the same timing... When I do the gas first build, I can actually barely afford all that shit, the drop is pretty all in. | ||
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DeCoup
Australia1933 Posts
On February 13 2013 20:08 ZenithM wrote: lolwut? No, the one base hellbat drop can't afford reactored medivacs and hit at the same timing... When I do the gas first build, I can actually barely afford all that shit, the drop is pretty all in. Everything you said is true except the part about it being all in. The build has constant scv production, gets you a lot of useful infrastructure and because of the 111 allows you to follow up with a wide range of compositions. You can also follow up with a second CC/orbital straight after the last hellion is in production and be fairly safe against counters with a bunker and your initial few marines. Edit: Making marines and mines behind the attack to follow up the CC can hold most comps and is quite gas light. You can use the excess gas for either upgrades or a couple of starport units to help hold counters or apply followup pressure to secure your expo. | ||
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