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In response to some theorycrafting here, you dont have permanent speed boost on your medivac (that said I am still in favor of making it an upgrade, reducing hellbat damage and lettnig blueflame affect them again). They cannot just drop on your workertrain since they already used speedboost to get to your mineral line asap to lower your reaction time. Still then you should have ovis spread out so you cant get surprised. Besides that it is just like against regular hellion drops, you need to spread them out, if you keep them all together then yes they will die.
But the cargo nerf is imo just stupid. It will just be really confusing for players if such a unit suddenly takes 4 cargo spaces. It might be attractive from a balance pov, since you are specifically nerfing one tactic (which people for a large part just need to get experience dealing with*), but that is like giving marines bonus damage to stalkers (random example). It might be nice for balance, but it is not what you want.
* Look at how reapers in TvT HotS evolved. First it was just a matter who made more reapers, but while it took a while, in the end it was far more than that and reaper agression could be held without too much issues. Granted I still wasnt a big fan of the state of the game then, but the current gimmick that the reaper is, isnt much better.
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God I dont' care but man when they fix this i'll be singing with joy every terran does this.
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On February 12 2013 17:54 Spyridon wrote:Show nested quote +On February 12 2013 17:09 Fen1kz wrote:
so helldrops is overpowered and oracle play no? :D are kiddin me? :D A single AA static defense can shut down oracle harass. The same can't be said for hellbat drops. Show nested quote +On February 12 2013 17:31 Zealously wrote:
Could not 3 supply work? You could still only drop 2 hellbats, but you could bring 2 marines or a Marauder (or I guess technically another Hellion and transform it on the ground). I agree that 4-hellbat drops are pretty crazy, but I would argue that they should first go for 3 cargo space, then up to 4 if the drops are still considered too strong by those who are actually good enough to judge. Wow... so 4 hellbats 2 medivacs reaching the enemy base at 7:12 isn't good enough... u want 4 hellbats 4 marines? How would the unit icons even look if they covered 3 slots? lol
you need to start reading better
medivacs have 8 spaces. ooookay?
if each hellbat takes 3 spaces instead of 4 (which would fit 2) , you'll still only be able to have only 2 hellbats (ref if your math is bad: 2
28/3 = 2.666
...you'll fit 2 hellbats and 2 marines
not 4 hellbats and 4 marines
maybe if hellbats were only 1 cargospace.
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On February 12 2013 18:11 zhurai wrote:Show nested quote +On February 12 2013 17:54 Spyridon wrote:On February 12 2013 17:09 Fen1kz wrote:
so helldrops is overpowered and oracle play no? :D are kiddin me? :D A single AA static defense can shut down oracle harass. The same can't be said for hellbat drops. On February 12 2013 17:31 Zealously wrote:
Could not 3 supply work? You could still only drop 2 hellbats, but you could bring 2 marines or a Marauder (or I guess technically another Hellion and transform it on the ground). I agree that 4-hellbat drops are pretty crazy, but I would argue that they should first go for 3 cargo space, then up to 4 if the drops are still considered too strong by those who are actually good enough to judge. Wow... so 4 hellbats 2 medivacs reaching the enemy base at 7:12 isn't good enough... u want 4 hellbats 4 marines? How would the unit icons even look if they covered 3 slots? lol you need to start reading better medivacs have 8 spaces. ooookay? if each hellbat takes 3 spaces instead of 4 (which would fit 2) , you'll still only be able to have only 2 hellbats (ref if your math is bad: 2 28/3 = 2.666 ...you'll fit 2 hellbats and 2 marines not 4 hellbats and 4 marines maybe if hellbats were only 1 cargospace.
The editor doesnt allow 3cargo units.
Only 1,2,4,8.
Not that it wouldnt be doable, but it seems very unintended.
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On February 12 2013 18:13 Big J wrote:Show nested quote +On February 12 2013 18:11 zhurai wrote:On February 12 2013 17:54 Spyridon wrote:On February 12 2013 17:09 Fen1kz wrote:
so helldrops is overpowered and oracle play no? :D are kiddin me? :D A single AA static defense can shut down oracle harass. The same can't be said for hellbat drops. On February 12 2013 17:31 Zealously wrote:
Could not 3 supply work? You could still only drop 2 hellbats, but you could bring 2 marines or a Marauder (or I guess technically another Hellion and transform it on the ground). I agree that 4-hellbat drops are pretty crazy, but I would argue that they should first go for 3 cargo space, then up to 4 if the drops are still considered too strong by those who are actually good enough to judge. Wow... so 4 hellbats 2 medivacs reaching the enemy base at 7:12 isn't good enough... u want 4 hellbats 4 marines? How would the unit icons even look if they covered 3 slots? lol you need to start reading better medivacs have 8 spaces. ooookay? if each hellbat takes 3 spaces instead of 4 (which would fit 2) , you'll still only be able to have only 2 hellbats (ref if your math is bad: 2 28/3 = 2.666 ...you'll fit 2 hellbats and 2 marines not 4 hellbats and 4 marines maybe if hellbats were only 1 cargospace. The editor doesnt allow 3cargo units. Only 1,2,4,8. Not that it wouldnt be doable, but it seems very unintended.
yeah, but IF it was possible.
and even then you won't have 4 hellbats 4 marine drops like he said
... which was all I was addressing
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On February 12 2013 17:54 Spyridon wrote:
Wow... so 4 hellbats 2 medivacs reaching the enemy base at 7:12 isn't good enough... u want 4 hellbats 4 marines?
How would the unit icons even look if they covered 3 slots? lol
That looks fairly useless to me (4 hellbats, 2 medivacs), it simply costs too much. One of the main problems in this discussion is that people want to defend 1 base all-ins with fast expands, probably also fast thirds, without taking any damage whatsoever.
So what if you lose 5 drones to a one base all in? You are still enormously ahead.
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At least give it more time than this.
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On February 12 2013 18:14 zhurai wrote:Show nested quote +On February 12 2013 18:13 Big J wrote:On February 12 2013 18:11 zhurai wrote:On February 12 2013 17:54 Spyridon wrote:On February 12 2013 17:09 Fen1kz wrote:
so helldrops is overpowered and oracle play no? :D are kiddin me? :D A single AA static defense can shut down oracle harass. The same can't be said for hellbat drops. On February 12 2013 17:31 Zealously wrote:
Could not 3 supply work? You could still only drop 2 hellbats, but you could bring 2 marines or a Marauder (or I guess technically another Hellion and transform it on the ground). I agree that 4-hellbat drops are pretty crazy, but I would argue that they should first go for 3 cargo space, then up to 4 if the drops are still considered too strong by those who are actually good enough to judge. Wow... so 4 hellbats 2 medivacs reaching the enemy base at 7:12 isn't good enough... u want 4 hellbats 4 marines? How would the unit icons even look if they covered 3 slots? lol you need to start reading better medivacs have 8 spaces. ooookay? if each hellbat takes 3 spaces instead of 4 (which would fit 2) , you'll still only be able to have only 2 hellbats (ref if your math is bad: 2 28/3 = 2.666 ...you'll fit 2 hellbats and 2 marines not 4 hellbats and 4 marines maybe if hellbats were only 1 cargospace. The editor doesnt allow 3cargo units. Only 1,2,4,8. Not that it wouldnt be doable, but it seems very unintended. yeah, but IF it was possible. and even then you won't have 4 hellbats 4 marine drops like he said ... which was all I was addressing
Yeah, I get what you mean.
However, the person you were quoting did talk about two medivacs. So he is actually right about 4hellbats+4marines. 
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Great suggestion on how to nerf Hellbat properly.
I like the dev team a lot more in HoTS. Posting like regular forum members (minus the whine  ) from time to time on both US and EU.
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i dont think such a minor nerf is close to enough
like seriously 29 to light damage AOE on a 100 mineral unit with 130hp is just out of control, even if they cut the damage in half hellbats would be perfectly viable still
not to mention that with one button click it turns into one of the fastest unit in the game, the unit is just way way overtuned
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On February 12 2013 18:49 Tsubbi wrote:
i dont think such a minor nerf is close to enough
like seriously 29 to light damage AOE on a 100 mineral unit with 130hp is just out of control, even if they cut the damage in half hellbats would be perfectly viable still
not to mention that with one button click it turns into one of the fastest unit in the game, the unit is just way way overtuned
Like roaches? They are beefy, fast and they are doing a lot of damage for 75/25. And they are more massable than Hellbats.
I mean I have yet to see a single game when a Terran maxes out on Hellbat at ~11 minutes.
I dont mind the Hellbat Drop nerf, if they are keeping the stats for it.
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On February 12 2013 18:49 Tsubbi wrote:
i dont think such a minor nerf is close to enough
like seriously 29 to light damage AOE on a 100 mineral unit with 130hp is just out of control, even if they cut the damage in half hellbats would be perfectly viable still
not to mention that with one button click it turns into one of the fastest unit in the game, the unit is just way way overtuned
No, it would be pretty darn useless unit if its damage was cut in half. The unit has an attack speed of 2 for fucks sake.
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On February 12 2013 18:57 Breach_hu wrote:Show nested quote +On February 12 2013 18:49 Tsubbi wrote:
i dont think such a minor nerf is close to enough
like seriously 29 to light damage AOE on a 100 mineral unit with 130hp is just out of control, even if they cut the damage in half hellbats would be perfectly viable still
not to mention that with one button click it turns into one of the fastest unit in the game, the unit is just way way overtuned Like roaches? They are beefy, fast and they are doing a lot of damage for 75/25. And they are more massable than Hellbats. I mean I have yet to see a single game when a Terran maxes out on Hellbat at ~11 minutes. I dont mind the Hellbat Drop nerf, if they are keeping the stats for it.
Yeah but roaches don't fly in on cracked out medivacs and annihilate entire mineral lines in 2 seconds. lol
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Can hellbats get into bunkers?
Saw a great game with Catz. He basically pushed with slow burrow roaches after he expanded as the terran was massing hellbats and dropships. At the 7 minute mark he managed to break the terran's wall and into the expansion with good burrow micro.
Of course, if the terran held or built a better wall Catz would have been fucked, but still ... yay?
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On February 12 2013 19:21 Defacer wrote:
Can hellbats get into bunkers?
Saw a great game with Catz. He basically pushed with slow burrow roaches after he expanded as the terran was massing hellbats and dropships. At the 7 minute mark he managed to break the terran's wall and into the expansion with good burrow micro.
Of course, if the terran held or built a better wall Catz would have been fucked, but still ... yay?
if we saw the same game it was a 1 base roach burrow allin ^^
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just don't make them useless like blue flame hellion drop
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On February 12 2013 18:11 zhurai wrote:Show nested quote +On February 12 2013 17:54 Spyridon wrote:On February 12 2013 17:09 Fen1kz wrote:
so helldrops is overpowered and oracle play no? :D are kiddin me? :D A single AA static defense can shut down oracle harass. The same can't be said for hellbat drops. On February 12 2013 17:31 Zealously wrote:
Could not 3 supply work? You could still only drop 2 hellbats, but you could bring 2 marines or a Marauder (or I guess technically another Hellion and transform it on the ground). I agree that 4-hellbat drops are pretty crazy, but I would argue that they should first go for 3 cargo space, then up to 4 if the drops are still considered too strong by those who are actually good enough to judge. Wow... so 4 hellbats 2 medivacs reaching the enemy base at 7:12 isn't good enough... u want 4 hellbats 4 marines? How would the unit icons even look if they covered 3 slots? lol you need to start reading better medivacs have 8 spaces. ooookay? if each hellbat takes 3 spaces instead of 4 (which would fit 2) , you'll still only be able to have only 2 hellbats (ref if your math is bad: 2 28/3 = 2.666 ...you'll fit 2 hellbats and 2 marines not 4 hellbats and 4 marines maybe if hellbats were only 1 cargospace.
Funny, your the one that needs better reading comprehension. You ignored the time, and the fact that i said TWO medivacs.
You can currently make 1 medivac at around 6 mins which reaches the opponents base with 4 hellbats at 6:30.
Medivacs take 42 seconds to be created.
Therefore you can have 2 Medivacs at your opponents base at 7:12.
Your reading comprehension is bad... If you are going to go around trying to correct people and insulting their reading comprehension... Maybe you should... You know... Read what they wrote? 
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East Gorteau22261 Posts
On February 12 2013 18:13 Big J wrote:Show nested quote +On February 12 2013 18:11 zhurai wrote:On February 12 2013 17:54 Spyridon wrote:On February 12 2013 17:09 Fen1kz wrote:
so helldrops is overpowered and oracle play no? :D are kiddin me? :D A single AA static defense can shut down oracle harass. The same can't be said for hellbat drops. On February 12 2013 17:31 Zealously wrote:
Could not 3 supply work? You could still only drop 2 hellbats, but you could bring 2 marines or a Marauder (or I guess technically another Hellion and transform it on the ground). I agree that 4-hellbat drops are pretty crazy, but I would argue that they should first go for 3 cargo space, then up to 4 if the drops are still considered too strong by those who are actually good enough to judge. Wow... so 4 hellbats 2 medivacs reaching the enemy base at 7:12 isn't good enough... u want 4 hellbats 4 marines? How would the unit icons even look if they covered 3 slots? lol you need to start reading better medivacs have 8 spaces. ooookay? if each hellbat takes 3 spaces instead of 4 (which would fit 2) , you'll still only be able to have only 2 hellbats (ref if your math is bad: 2 28/3 = 2.666 ...you'll fit 2 hellbats and 2 marines not 4 hellbats and 4 marines maybe if hellbats were only 1 cargospace. The editor doesnt allow 3cargo units. Only 1,2,4,8. Not that it wouldnt be doable, but it seems very unintended.
I see. Did not know that.
And @Spyridon: I don't think you understand what I'm saying. I was suggesting that hellbats take up 3 cargo space instead of 4, because I feel that 4 might be overkill. If a 2-hellbat, 2-marine/1-marauder drop is still considered too strong by, again, those who are good at the game, then I think it could be changed to 4 cargo space. Just because something is difficult to hold off with the standard greed does not mean it should be nerfed into oblivion at first sight. I think making hellbats 4 cargo supply is a bad move.
But, apparently the editor does not allow 3 cargo space so this discussion is unnecessary.
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While i generally like the idea of more cargo space for hellbats. Am i the only one who has concerns that such spezific buffs and nerfs (also like +15dmg for spores to bio) make the game even more complicated for new players and spectators?
I see why they do that, it makes balancing much more easy. But it seems like a double-edged sword to me
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East Gorteau22261 Posts
On February 12 2013 20:19 doggy wrote:
While i generally like the idea of more cargo space for hellbats. Am i the only one who has concerns that such spezific buffs and nerfs (also like +15dmg for spores to bio) make the game even more complicated for new players and spectators?
I see why they do that, it makes balancing much more easy. But it seems like a double-edged sword to me
I agree. Changes like +35 vs. Shields for Widow Mines are solutions, but they are hardly elegant ones. I think, if possible, Blizzard should strive towards making non-specific changes that still accomplish whatever is needed.
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EPT
