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On February 08 2013 17:55 drkcid wrote:Show nested quote +On February 08 2013 17:49 baldgye wrote:On February 08 2013 17:46 Dvriel wrote:On February 08 2013 17:07 Everlong wrote:
Could anyone make a list what Protoss units widow does mine 1-shots now? Or perhraps just tell me where is the list of Protoss units with health? Probe Zealot Sentry Stalker High Templar Dark Templar Oracle Phoenix and MScore are left with few HP.As we see,no need for turrets now in early game to defend Oracle harass if you go for factory play.I wish mines were only 1 supply,because they arent good late game and to leave them wherever losing 2 supply is too much.Nice patch for Terran.Now I hope Blizz fix the Tanks and SkyToss Nice patch? More like insane buff... With no siege mode tech and no with super powered mine again there is going to be no way to attack a Terran who's turtling... Thats true, everyone knows that P dont have any detection against wm right? ¬¬. Maybe is insane if you throw your army blindly into a turtling T. If T play def, P can get map control and then go for the death ball that almos every T fears.
What are you talking about?
Remember oricals? Remember how they are suppose to be a way for Protoss to harass? How are you suppose to harass when Terran can reactor out a single unit to shut them down instantally and it's burrowed so you have no idea if its there and where it is, without using detection first, which uses up energy...
Not only that but mines + bio are insane you can't engage without in being a horrible trade and now it's even worse... And no it's not realistic to build a bunch of obs and go scouting round the map with stalkers picking them off if your playing against someone with a brain
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Pandemona
Charlie Sheens House51493 Posts
Holy shit 30 damage per shot on Muti 0.O rofl madness xD
Going be interesting how much stronger widow mines are now vs 'toss
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On February 08 2013 17:46 Dvriel wrote:Show nested quote +On February 08 2013 17:07 Everlong wrote:
Could anyone make a list what Protoss units widow does mine 1-shots now? Or perhraps just tell me where is the list of Protoss units with health? Probe Zealot Sentry Stalker High Templar Dark Templar Oracle Phoenix and MScore are left with few HP.As we see,no need for turrets now in early game to defend Oracle harass if you go for factory play.I wish mines were only 1 supply,because they arent good late game and to leave them wherever losing 2 supply is too much.Nice patch for Terran.Now I hope Blizz fix the Tanks and SkyToss
It looks so insanely cost efficient. All widow mine needs to do is one shot any of those units (except probe) and it's already payed for its price. Not to mention AoE damage and later kills after cooldown.
I feel like widow mine should cost 50/25 and be single use only just like in BW. Now its damage is much higher than baneling's, auto-tracks target, attacks air, and is not even kamikaze unit, all of that for 75/25.
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On February 08 2013 17:57 DarkLordOlli wrote:
HOW do you defend a widow mine/marine 1 base all in.
This is fucking insane
Oracle+Stalker or Stalker/Sentry.If you forgot there is the Planetary NExus with ONLY 13!!! range...
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On February 08 2013 17:59 blade55555 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 08 2013 17:57 DarkLordOlli wrote:
HOW do you defend a widow mine/marine 1 base all in.
This is fucking insane I imagine nexus cannon + gateway units will do fine with maybe a cannon or 2 for detection. No idea how long it takes to get a robo and get detection that way, but I don't see that being overpowered.
You could delay him out on the map just kite'ing with stalkers, for like forever, so yah it shouldnt be a problem
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I wonder when they will rebuff it's burrow time again to a second... That was pretty balanced, you could literally loose your entire mineral line in a second to a single unit. Wonder why that go patched out? Can't wait to see that again
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On February 08 2013 17:56 DarkLordOlli wrote:Show nested quote +On February 08 2013 17:55 drkcid wrote:On February 08 2013 17:49 baldgye wrote:On February 08 2013 17:46 Dvriel wrote:On February 08 2013 17:07 Everlong wrote:
Could anyone make a list what Protoss units widow does mine 1-shots now? Or perhraps just tell me where is the list of Protoss units with health? Probe Zealot Sentry Stalker High Templar Dark Templar Oracle Phoenix and MScore are left with few HP.As we see,no need for turrets now in early game to defend Oracle harass if you go for factory play.I wish mines were only 1 supply,because they arent good late game and to leave them wherever losing 2 supply is too much.Nice patch for Terran.Now I hope Blizz fix the Tanks and SkyToss Nice patch? More like insane buff... With no siege mode tech and no with super powered mine again there is going to be no way to attack a Terran who's turtling... Thats true, everyone knows that P dont have any detection against wm right? ¬¬. Maybe is insane if you throw your army blindly into a turtling T. If T play def, P can get map control and then go for the death ball that almos every T fears. What detection do you mean? Observers that can be scanned or oracles that melt to the standard terran unit, the marine?
Observer range 11 vs WM 7 and marine 6 so unless you micro your observer really bad or really far away from you units I dont see a big deal about WM. Calm down, when P players get used to WM you will see that the unit is not OP.
And oracles doesnt melt that fast against marines (in low numbers) and they are fast.
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On February 08 2013 17:59 baldgye wrote:Show nested quote +On February 08 2013 17:55 drkcid wrote:On February 08 2013 17:49 baldgye wrote:On February 08 2013 17:46 Dvriel wrote:On February 08 2013 17:07 Everlong wrote:
Could anyone make a list what Protoss units widow does mine 1-shots now? Or perhraps just tell me where is the list of Protoss units with health? Probe Zealot Sentry Stalker High Templar Dark Templar Oracle Phoenix and MScore are left with few HP.As we see,no need for turrets now in early game to defend Oracle harass if you go for factory play.I wish mines were only 1 supply,because they arent good late game and to leave them wherever losing 2 supply is too much.Nice patch for Terran.Now I hope Blizz fix the Tanks and SkyToss Nice patch? More like insane buff... With no siege mode tech and no with super powered mine again there is going to be no way to attack a Terran who's turtling... Thats true, everyone knows that P dont have any detection against wm right? ¬¬. Maybe is insane if you throw your army blindly into a turtling T. If T play def, P can get map control and then go for the death ball that almos every T fears. What are you talking about? Remember oricals? Remember how they are suppose to be a way for Protoss to harass? How are you suppose to harass when Terran can reactor out a single unit to shut them down instantally and it's burrowed so you have no idea if its there and where it is, without using detection first, which uses up energy... Not only that but mines + bio are insane you can't engage without in being a horrible trade and now it's even worse... And no it's not realistic to build a bunch of obs and go scouting round the map with stalkers picking them off if your playing against someone with a brain
You remember Factory???There are built the Widow Mines.They cost 2 supply and 25 gas.Terran should open with gas if want to have them,so no economic advantage and to be safe you need lot of them,while the P can easy go for 1gate FE because of the MScore and the Planetary Nexus.
Why are bio+mines insane?Your Collosi cant shoot mines?You got no Observers in your army?Collosi outrange mine by 4 so wtf?You dont need to go all the map arround.Just keep your observers with your main army and you will kill lot of useless mines in your way to kill the Terran
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Depends on your build; if I go stargate, I try to open with Phoenix > Oracle > Oracle and move up with Stalkers and have the Phoenix lift the first Widow mine, send 1 Oracle to harass workers and the 2nd stay for detection if he gets to burrow one; if Robo, you just have to let probes or Zealots tank widow mine shots and use observers/MSC/Stalkers to fight. Widow mine 1-shots anything early game except Immortal (2-shot), so it's best to just go in with the cheapest units you have to tank the shots. They take forever to re-arm, so a few widow mines isn't necessarily a big deal. It's lategame when they are hell on earth, killing 15 Immortals in 3 seconds.
@ The guy above me: They are talking about rushes and pushes involving Widow Mines. Colossi are way too late for the scenarios they are describing.
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On February 08 2013 18:06 drkcid wrote:Show nested quote +On February 08 2013 17:56 DarkLordOlli wrote:On February 08 2013 17:55 drkcid wrote:On February 08 2013 17:49 baldgye wrote:On February 08 2013 17:46 Dvriel wrote:On February 08 2013 17:07 Everlong wrote:
Could anyone make a list what Protoss units widow does mine 1-shots now? Or perhraps just tell me where is the list of Protoss units with health? Probe Zealot Sentry Stalker High Templar Dark Templar Oracle Phoenix and MScore are left with few HP.As we see,no need for turrets now in early game to defend Oracle harass if you go for factory play.I wish mines were only 1 supply,because they arent good late game and to leave them wherever losing 2 supply is too much.Nice patch for Terran.Now I hope Blizz fix the Tanks and SkyToss Nice patch? More like insane buff... With no siege mode tech and no with super powered mine again there is going to be no way to attack a Terran who's turtling... Thats true, everyone knows that P dont have any detection against wm right? ¬¬. Maybe is insane if you throw your army blindly into a turtling T. If T play def, P can get map control and then go for the death ball that almos every T fears. What detection do you mean? Observers that can be scanned or oracles that melt to the standard terran unit, the marine? Observer range 11 vs WM 7 and marine 6 so unless you micro your observer really bad or really far away from you units I dont see a big deal about WM. Calm down, when P players get used to WM you will see that the unit is not OP. And oracles doesnt melt that fast against marines (in low numbers) and they are fast.
WM got 5 range as well as marine...
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On February 08 2013 17:57 DarkLordOlli wrote:
HOW do you defend a widow mine/marine 1 base all in.
This is fucking insane
Stop throwing random stuff at people screaming it's fucking insane, ok?!?
You know what is fucking insane? You scout 2 gases from Protoss and you absolutely have to build ebay + at least 2 turrets. Then, Protoss, knowing you have to do this in order to stay alive, goes ahead and expands and you are fucked...
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It is overpowered lategame in a mech-based composition, but it will take a lot of time for people to realize this. Immortal Archon is hard-countered by Widowmine/Hellbat.
Yes, 1-base Oracle results in a lot of build-order losses.
Yes, Void Ray is probably overpowered.
But that doesn't mean TvP Mech with Widow Mines and Hellbats isn't overpowered as well.
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I love the overlord speed. So much easier to scout!
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On February 08 2013 18:07 Dvriel wrote:Show nested quote +On February 08 2013 18:06 drkcid wrote:On February 08 2013 17:56 DarkLordOlli wrote:On February 08 2013 17:55 drkcid wrote:On February 08 2013 17:49 baldgye wrote:On February 08 2013 17:46 Dvriel wrote:On February 08 2013 17:07 Everlong wrote:
Could anyone make a list what Protoss units widow does mine 1-shots now? Or perhraps just tell me where is the list of Protoss units with health? Probe Zealot Sentry Stalker High Templar Dark Templar Oracle Phoenix and MScore are left with few HP.As we see,no need for turrets now in early game to defend Oracle harass if you go for factory play.I wish mines were only 1 supply,because they arent good late game and to leave them wherever losing 2 supply is too much.Nice patch for Terran.Now I hope Blizz fix the Tanks and SkyToss Nice patch? More like insane buff... With no siege mode tech and no with super powered mine again there is going to be no way to attack a Terran who's turtling... Thats true, everyone knows that P dont have any detection against wm right? ¬¬. Maybe is insane if you throw your army blindly into a turtling T. If T play def, P can get map control and then go for the death ball that almos every T fears. What detection do you mean? Observers that can be scanned or oracles that melt to the standard terran unit, the marine? Observer range 11 vs WM 7 and marine 6 so unless you micro your observer really bad or really far away from you units I dont see a big deal about WM. Calm down, when P players get used to WM you will see that the unit is not OP. And oracles doesnt melt that fast against marines (in low numbers) and they are fast. WM got 5 range as well as marine...
Epic fail! xD yes I saw sight range sorry.
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Olli
Austria24422 Posts
How do people not understand that it's fucking retarded that to beat a factory unit that costs 25 gas and is 2 supply you have to have a fucking 300/200 T3 army that takes ages and an insane amount of gas to tech to? It's dumb as hell. If immortals were not affected by this I'd be ok with it. The immortal was pretty much the only protection protoss had against early/midgame terran factory units. You expect protoss to be more aggressive on the map but give terran a unit that 1 shots your 125/50 stalkers? YThe widow mine is cheaper than a stalker and it fucking 1 shots them AND has fucking splash damage. WTF
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On February 08 2013 18:06 Dvriel wrote:Show nested quote +On February 08 2013 17:59 baldgye wrote:On February 08 2013 17:55 drkcid wrote:On February 08 2013 17:49 baldgye wrote:On February 08 2013 17:46 Dvriel wrote:On February 08 2013 17:07 Everlong wrote:
Could anyone make a list what Protoss units widow does mine 1-shots now? Or perhraps just tell me where is the list of Protoss units with health? Probe Zealot Sentry Stalker High Templar Dark Templar Oracle Phoenix and MScore are left with few HP.As we see,no need for turrets now in early game to defend Oracle harass if you go for factory play.I wish mines were only 1 supply,because they arent good late game and to leave them wherever losing 2 supply is too much.Nice patch for Terran.Now I hope Blizz fix the Tanks and SkyToss Nice patch? More like insane buff... With no siege mode tech and no with super powered mine again there is going to be no way to attack a Terran who's turtling... Thats true, everyone knows that P dont have any detection against wm right? ¬¬. Maybe is insane if you throw your army blindly into a turtling T. If T play def, P can get map control and then go for the death ball that almos every T fears. What are you talking about? Remember oricals? Remember how they are suppose to be a way for Protoss to harass? How are you suppose to harass when Terran can reactor out a single unit to shut them down instantally and it's burrowed so you have no idea if its there and where it is, without using detection first, which uses up energy... Not only that but mines + bio are insane you can't engage without in being a horrible trade and now it's even worse... And no it's not realistic to build a bunch of obs and go scouting round the map with stalkers picking them off if your playing against someone with a brain You remember Factory???There are built the Widow Mines.They cost 2 supply and 25 gas.Terran should open with gas if want to have them,so no economic advantage and to be safe you need lot of them,while the P can easy go for 1gate FE because of the MScore and the Planetary Nexus. Why are bio+mines insane?Your Collosi cant shoot mines?You got no Observers in your army?Collosi outrange mine by 4 so wtf?You dont need to go all the map arround.Just keep your observers with your main army and you will kill lot of useless mines in your way to kill the Terran
You should play the beta more, it's really pretty simple why mines are already really good, you don't have to rush them either you can do the standard broken super fast (at no cost) medivac helion drop, loose nothing and build two mines at your ramp, and without a robo or stargate I can't attack without loosing sentries and stalkers, both of which cost more than a mine.
Mines where good before the buff, and now they are just broken. I can't wait for actually terrans to start playing hots so it can actually be balanced instead of just buffing everything Terran because (bo-ho) mech is harder to build than bio...
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On February 08 2013 18:08 LF[Media] wrote:
It is overpowered lategame in a mech-based composition, but it will take a lot of time for people to realize this. Immortal Archon is hard-countered by Widowmine/Hellbat.
Yes, 1-base Oracle results in a lot of build-order losses.
Yes, Void Ray is probably overpowered.
But that doesn't mean TvP Mech with Widow Mines and Hellbats isn't overpowered as well.
It's not.
In fact this may be a much needed buff against stargate transitions.
Right now 80 supply mech armies regularly die to last second void-rays and better widow mine may help with this.
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What the fuck ablut pneumatized Carapace?! So you can no longer hide anything from Zerg? It was really hard already, with the increase of the ovie speed in general, but now it's impossible!
Btw, the first HotS season will be about who abuses the broken balance the most, gonna be hilarious i think, it doesn't feel like the game is close to having the balance of wol yet.
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Olli
Austria24422 Posts
On February 08 2013 18:12 pmp10 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 08 2013 18:08 LF[Media] wrote:
It is overpowered lategame in a mech-based composition, but it will take a lot of time for people to realize this. Immortal Archon is hard-countered by Widowmine/Hellbat.
Yes, 1-base Oracle results in a lot of build-order losses.
Yes, Void Ray is probably overpowered.
But that doesn't mean TvP Mech with Widow Mines and Hellbats isn't overpowered as well. It's not. In fact this may be a much needed buff against stargate transitions. Right now 80 supply mech armies regularly die to last second void-rays and better widow mine may help with this.
If you rely on thors as your only anti air in a mech army, yeah. I've seen the way people play mech in TvP and I'm just sitting there thinking to myself "Why the fuck does this guy have 8 siege tanks against a mass air army?!"
Also overlord speed change is absolutely meaningless.
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On February 08 2013 18:12 Ingusstarcraft wrote:
What the fuck ablut pneumatized Carapace?! So you can no longer hide anything from Zerg? It was really hard already, with the increase of the ovie speed in general, but now it's impossible!
Don't worry, nobody will get it before lair anyway.
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EPT
