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Does anybody else think Hellbats could be re-balanced by removing Medivac thrusters and the Bio tag? At the very least, Medivac thrusters have failed to enoucrage mass Medivac drop and have exascerbated the lone Medivac drop. Perhaps it's possible that the Medivac's interaction with the Hellbat is what is making the Hellbat overpowered and Hellbat drops could be brought back into line if they weren't rocketed into the opponent's base and then healed endlessly vs Zerglings.
I'm also kind of curious of whether or not people are still geting Blue Flame upgrades now that getting an Armory both advances your tech to upgrades, Battlehellions and Thors with all of your previous Hellions getting a damage boost by becoming Battlehellions by default. Maybe the Battlehellion transformation should replace the Blue Flame upgrade so Terrans can't just build an Armory and get access to upgrades and 2 more units so easily?
So in short, is the Hellbat inherently OP, or are Medivac boosters, the Bio tag and the access at Armory the real problem? I think ZvT would greatly benefit from both the Siege Tank and the Battlehellion transformation being researched upgrade, that way they'd compete against each other for which upgrade you should get first instead of getting free Siege tech and bonus Battlehellions on your way to upgrades and Thors ... it's a bit much. It'd also add in the benefit of having less retarded ways to roast an entire Drone line, I mean do Terrans really need Blue Flame Hellions and Widow Mines to instantly wipe a worker .line?
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On February 08 2013 15:21 Nezgar wrote:
Really disappointed about the mine buff. The general concept of a unit that only needs to fire once to be cost efficient is something that boggles my mind. It does one-shot stuff like stalkers and oracles now which is bonkers if you think about it. As a unit it is too cost efficient and comes way too early in the game. You can have mines out a good minute before a protoss can have his detection and their only mobile detection is prone to being sniped by a few vikings and a scan.
The problem might not be as present in 1vs1 as it is in 2vs2 games where the widowmine completely breakes some matchups and makes it almost impossible to punish terrans for their greedy play. Make a runby while he is moving out with his mech army? Nope. Maybe some air harass with an oracle, phoenix or mutas? Nope. They were already strong enough - or too strong in team matches. People complained about fungal being a spell that can literally end the game if one player wasn't paying attention for a split second. It's the exact same thing with the widowmine.
Disappointing that there is no nerf to either hellbat or the medivac booster which is a combination that simply is too powerful in its current state.
Glad that they didn't went for the tempest nerf. 9 DPS is already terrible for a 300/200 cost unit. When it comes to DPS per supply it is even worse than workers. Other 300/200 units deal around 40-50 dps, sometimes even as splash damage.
Besides, tempests need a decent support of voidrays to be really effective and those already took a supply nerf in the last patch.
Overlord speed... No idea why anyone would get that besides some very weird and funky strategies that wouldn't work in almost all cases.
Overall I have no idea what this patch was supposed to do. It fixed nothing and received mostly negative critics from their beta testers. Glad to hear that they really don't give a fuck. There's hoping though that the patch at least gets rid of some of the nasty exploits, bugs and performance issues.
Tempests have 15 range. Just let that fact sink into your head. This is true 15 range without any need to siege up. If their dps is any higher they would be utterly broken. In fact their dps should be nerfed. Right now tempests are already ridiculous. The only counters are corruptors and vikings and those get wrecked by storms. Not to mention that tempests have ridiculous amount of hp for a 4 supply unit, build rapidly, and absolutely destroy Terran and Zerg capital ships. Tempest/templar is far harder to deal with than broodlord infestor was. Mark my words, blizzard will nerf this unit in the next few months.
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Really wish I understood the logic behind overlord speed at tier 1... Makes ZERO sense.
If drops were tier 1 however.....
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I play T and i like this patch... mostly.
I feel that they should buff static defenses in general. Now with Oracles, drops and mutas, static defenses are much more important than they were in WOL and in HOTS they are a bit underpowered: a spore or a turret for example dies too fast vs skytos.
Maybe now there are too powerful tools for harrasment.
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On February 08 2013 16:36 sagefreke wrote:
Really wish I understood the logic behind overlord speed at tier 1... Makes ZERO sense.
If drops were tier 1 however.....
Well, you need both upgrades for drops to be really viable. This means drops can be out about a minute earlier, and not so much later than the other races that they aren't worth them most the time (as was the case in WoL).
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On February 08 2013 16:01 Spyridon wrote:
If you tech to use either of the two units you listed, it's not easier nor cheaper to tech to late game. Even without those units, it's not really cheaper and easier to tech to late game. How do you figure?
Sorry, I guess I wasn't clear. What I meant is that your late game composition will be cheaper, and quicker to get. Instead of getting a billion infestors, or broodlords that take ages to tech to, you get a few vipers, or a few ultras, supporting a (mostly) mid-game army. Both units are very easy to get, and relatively cheap (and effective in low numbers).
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They say they don't want so much muta in ZvZ and then they nerf fungal? Fungal was the only reason not 100% of zergs where going mutas. Now muta play in ZvZ will increase that's for sure.
Other changes are so useless. Why would anyone ever research ovie speed, if you can better invest into Lair and soon will have overseer anyways without wasted 100/100.
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On February 08 2013 16:39 Spyridon wrote:Show nested quote +On February 08 2013 16:36 sagefreke wrote:
Really wish I understood the logic behind overlord speed at tier 1... Makes ZERO sense.
If drops were tier 1 however..... Well, you need both upgrades for drops to be really viable. This means drops can be out about a minute earlier, and not so much later than the other races that they aren't worth them most the time (as was the case in WoL).
No, you can research both at the same time in WoL. And drop takes longer anyway. This makes no difference.
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Cool, even more use for the widow mine.
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On February 08 2013 10:18 DemigodcelpH wrote:My question is why wasn't the +shield damage given to the tank? The tank is (should be) the core, and not the Widow Mine. Show nested quote +On February 08 2013 10:23 Rance wrote:
They should've added a +dmg vs shield upgrade for the siege tank since every toss unit counters them
Easy.
If they give it to tank you can bet that the widow mine won't see the daylight anymore than for a couple of early defensive purposes. And even those cases it can be argued that the widow mine is not needed.
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I haven't played much HOTS beta, so I can't comment on how this affects the metagame, but from a spectator's point of view, the +dmg to shields on Widow Mine and +dmg to bio on Spore Crawlers seem to make the units needlessly complicated. I hope it'll work out.
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Well needed buffs to the widow mine. Now Blizzard should reduce the supply of the widow mine to 1 and reduce the build/reload time to 20 seconds.
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So envision is the one which just grants detection for oracle, or it's the one which can be casted on enemy units and gives vision of those units?
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On February 08 2013 16:42 MilesTeg wrote:Show nested quote +On February 08 2013 16:01 Spyridon wrote:
If you tech to use either of the two units you listed, it's not easier nor cheaper to tech to late game. Even without those units, it's not really cheaper and easier to tech to late game. How do you figure? Sorry, I guess I wasn't clear. What I meant is that your late game composition will be cheaper, and quicker to get. Instead of getting a billion infestors, or broodlords that take ages to tech to, you get a few vipers, or a few ultras, supporting a (mostly) mid-game army. Both units are very easy to get, and relatively cheap (and effective in low numbers).
This was discussed a bit earlier, or maybe in the old post. But the problem with that is while being cost effective, neither Hydras nor Swarm Host are supply effective. SH aren't very effective in low numbers either.
It's better to try to fill up supply mid-game with the cheaper army if you are able to bank enough resources to make a next wave of T3 units as soon as they die.
On February 08 2013 16:43 MilesTeg wrote:Show nested quote +On February 08 2013 16:39 Spyridon wrote:On February 08 2013 16:36 sagefreke wrote:
Really wish I understood the logic behind overlord speed at tier 1... Makes ZERO sense.
If drops were tier 1 however..... Well, you need both upgrades for drops to be really viable. This means drops can be out about a minute earlier, and not so much later than the other races that they aren't worth them most the time (as was the case in WoL). No, you can research both at the same time in WoL. And drop takes longer anyway. This makes no difference.
You can't research both at the same time until T2. If you go with a general Zerg build order you can now start the first upgrade while the lair is researching, and start the drop upgrade as soon as lair finishes.
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Could anyone make a list what Protoss units widow does mine 1-shots now? Or perhraps just tell me where is the list of Protoss units with health?
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On February 08 2013 17:05 Spyridon wrote:
You can't research both at the same time until T2. If you go with a general Zerg build order you can now start the first upgrade while the lair is researching, and start the drop upgrade as soon as lair finishes.
You can start at the same time on separate hatcheries as soon as lair finished. You haven't played a zerg at all it seems.
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On February 08 2013 16:36 sagefreke wrote:
Really wish I understood the logic behind overlord speed at tier 1... Makes ZERO sense.
If drops were tier 1 however.....
It means, that if you go for ov drops after going lair, you can research both at the same time. And that without drops being available on hatch tech.
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On February 08 2013 17:11 JustPassingBy wrote:Show nested quote +On February 08 2013 16:36 sagefreke wrote:
Really wish I understood the logic behind overlord speed at tier 1... Makes ZERO sense.
If drops were tier 1 however..... It means, that if you go for ov drops after going lair, you can research both at the same time. And that without drops being available on hatch tech.
It does not make any difference at all. Even in Wol, you can research drops and speed at the same time after lair finished..
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People crying about needed change for tank+shield dmg and oracles, but not about hellbat or one shoting widow mines... some terrans are such a whiny bitches nowadays :-|
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Wow i really need to start playing this beta!
So many whiners in the HOTs threads, I can't wait to come and bash you!
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EPT
