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Beta Balance Update #12 - Page 7

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 HotS
491 CommentsPost a Reply
Prev 1 5 6 7 8 9 25 Next All
shin_toss
Profile Joined May 2010
Philippines2589 Posts
January 17 2013 23:43 GMT
#121
Hm.. not sure about the T1 burrow. :[

the rest of the changes are okay. I hope they revert the siege mode upgrade though.
AKMU / IU
Whitewing
Profile Joined October 2010
United States7483 Posts
January 17 2013 23:47 GMT
#122
I guess my early game harass against zerg is gonna have to be centered on hatchery killing or denial rather than going for drones...
Strategy"You know I fucking hate the way you play, right?" ~SC2John
JDStrafe
Profile Joined January 2013
United States12 Posts
January 17 2013 23:49 GMT
#123
I like the Reaper upgrade; sounds good.
Follow :) https://twitter.com/StrafeJD Thanks!
Rainling
Profile Joined June 2011
United States456 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-01-17 23:53:32
January 17 2013 23:51 GMT
#124
I really like the void ray and reaper changes. I think mass void rays was a bit strong as is, so the supply increase is a good move. Reapers were not very viable after the last patch, so they definitely needed some kind of buff.

I'm not sure about burrow on hatch yet. It could give zerg some really cool aggressive strategies, but it could also make it too easy to hold early aggression. I think we should wait before we judge this change to see how it turns out.
PhOeniX[MinD]
Profile Joined August 2008
361 Posts
January 17 2013 23:52 GMT
#125
On January 18 2013 08:35 Millet wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 18 2013 08:00 Snowbear wrote:
On January 18 2013 07:06 eviltomahawk wrote:


Burrow
We decided to move the Burrow upgrade requirement to the Hatchery, because we feel that early Burrow usage with units like Zerglings, Banelings, and Roaches creates potential for more action during the early game. Furthermore, the initial feedback from players has been very positive regarding this change, and we've already seen Zerg internal testers pull off some neat tricks using Burrow.


What you forget, dear David Kim, is:
1) This makes expansions even harder to take. Ever been blocked by creep? Now we also need to scan to land out command center.
2) When we push out, we need to be even more carefull --> burrowed banelings.

1) Wrong. You can't have burrow before your opponent can expand. Even a slower expand. If you mean the third, the zerg can (and should) already do exactly that in WoL.
2) This is true, but to invest in burrow AND banelings that early, you'll have a severe economic dent. You would require a pretty amazing baneling hit in order to get even.


1) u can
2) i think zerg will have more map awareness they will see when the opponent pushes out when he goes back and army composition with just one burrowed zergling outside the base
KT_FlaSh #1
HardlyNever
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
United States1258 Posts
January 17 2013 23:54 GMT
#126
I'm not sure the void ray change is quite enough. Right now, the unit is currently broken, particularly in pvp. I've done exactly what they are suggesting (moving away while the charge is on), turned around and engaged and still lost with an almost pure stalker army. Perhaps the supply change will be enough, but I think they need to nerf the damage a bit. Right now the void ray is sort of an uber unit.
Out there, the Kid learned to fend for himself. Learned to build. Learned to break.
Existor
Profile Joined July 2010
Russian Federation4295 Posts
January 17 2013 23:56 GMT
#127
Phoenixes still counter void rays for the same cost. Also Archons can be good against void rays, because Void Ray damage against non-armored targets is still low and charge does not buffs damage versus non-armored units.
Zealot Lord
Profile Joined May 2010
Hong Kong748 Posts
January 17 2013 23:58 GMT
#128
The burrow change could be good, or could be really bad, but I'm sure if its the latter they'll revert the changes soon enough.

Reapers are just annoying, don't like most of the changes for them personally.

As for void ray nerf, hmm, no comment on it at this moment though I'm quite frustrated why they never attempted to tweak the supply cost of infestor/broodlord in Wings of Liberty - they could have easily done the same thing to prevent the lategame zerg from being too powerful. Although WoL is ending soon so its not a huge issue anymore, its the response time that really bothers me, the balance was so poor in the last 6~9 months or so, I'm sure it frustrated a large number of players.
MilesTeg
Profile Joined September 2010
France1271 Posts
January 17 2013 23:59 GMT
#129
On January 18 2013 08:20 dani` wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 18 2013 08:18 MilesTeg wrote:
On January 18 2013 07:58 Nazeron wrote:
wonder how the burrow will be utilized against the sentry immortal all in, over i like the changes a lot


I don't understand how burrow is relevant to the sentry immortal all-in?

In theory the Zerg could set up some kind of mass burrowed Zergling / Roach army on the Protoss' path, assuming they don't have Observer. Not having to close the distance and being up close & personal with the Sentries is something Zergs tend to like. Not sure if it really works out so well every time though.


That's a hell of an investment just in case he's doing that push and he doesn't have an observer (and you manage to be in his path).

Not to mention you can already hard counter this push with other builds.
MilesTeg
Profile Joined September 2010
France1271 Posts
January 17 2013 23:59 GMT
#130
On January 18 2013 08:22 xsnac wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 18 2013 08:18 MilesTeg wrote:
On January 18 2013 07:58 Nazeron wrote:
wonder how the burrow will be utilized against the sentry immortal all in, over i like the changes a lot


I don't understand how burrow is relevant to the sentry immortal all-in?


you make tones of roaches , you burrow move under immortals you unborrow and PROFIT since 3 immortals wont kill more then 3-6 roaches while you move under and neighter will a handful of sentrys


You'd still have to research burrow movement... With requires lair. Nothing changes.
Greendotz
Profile Joined October 2011
United Kingdom2053 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-01-18 00:00:48
January 18 2013 00:00 GMT
#131
I get their reason behind the VR timer but it just seems incredibly goofy to me :\ Hopefully it'll show people there is value to not engaging fully charged VR's and Blizzard could remove it later?
awesomoecalypse
Profile Joined August 2010
United States2235 Posts
January 18 2013 00:02 GMT
#132
I pretty much like all changes. Void Ray cost to supply ratio was way higher than anything else in the game, and its very strong right now, so a slight nerf in this direction is warranted imo.

However, I also really believe they should take away the Void Ray's extended range on a targetted unit. That is, right now Voids have 6 range, but once you're attacking if the target tries to run away the range extends to 8.

This, far more than any difficulty in perceiving the charged state, is what really discourages opponents from baiting Void Ray attacks. A good way to slightly nerf Voids, and to really encourage the sort of micro Blizzard say they want, would be to remove this feature and simply give Voids 6 range straight up.
He drone drone drone. Me win. - ogsMC
MilesTeg
Profile Joined September 2010
France1271 Posts
January 18 2013 00:02 GMT
#133
On January 18 2013 08:38 Existor wrote:
And in ZvZ you can kill burrowed units with your banes without detection. Just stay with overlord and see where enemy is burrowed.

The problem can be with burrowed roach blocking. But the counter can be creep and spore at the natural. At time of taking 3rd base zerg probably should have Lair.


Considering you're essentially paying the price of a lair just to delay a bit an expansion in some situations... I'd say it's not a great move.
Brindled
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
United States508 Posts
January 18 2013 00:07 GMT
#134
I can't wait to try out these changes soon!
Ua Mau ke Ea o ka ʻĀina i ka Pono @TL_Brindled11
bobsire
Profile Joined December 2011
Canada296 Posts
January 18 2013 00:07 GMT
#135
Another step in the right direction.. good stuff blizzard.
Tommyth
Profile Joined April 2012
Poland117 Posts
January 18 2013 00:13 GMT
#136
On January 18 2013 08:19 LoveTool wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 18 2013 08:16 Tommyth wrote:
I don't get the burrow change. This makes zerg even harder to stop from getting 200 drones, and allows to delay expansions easier. I can't think of any offensive usage of burrow at hatch. It only promotes loooong mutlibase plays, which are already prevailing.


Have you even played HotS? Harrass vs zerg is MUCH stronger in HotS, it is actually significantly harder to just drone and both terran and protoss have new defensive tools that allow them to be more greedy, if they want.


Much stronger? I'm not sure if YOU have played hots sir. Oracles and widow mines are strong, but are still getting shut by a couple of spores. And yeah, T and P got new defensive tools, that's why zergs should be compensated with some offensive options, rather than another defensive one.
Rainling
Profile Joined June 2011
United States456 Posts
January 18 2013 00:17 GMT
#137
On January 18 2013 09:02 awesomoecalypse wrote:
I pretty much like all changes. Void Ray cost to supply ratio was way higher than anything else in the game, and its very strong right now, so a slight nerf in this direction is warranted imo.

However, I also really believe they should take away the Void Ray's extended range on a targetted unit. That is, right now Voids have 6 range, but once you're attacking if the target tries to run away the range extends to 8.

This, far more than any difficulty in perceiving the charged state, is what really discourages opponents from baiting Void Ray attacks. A good way to slightly nerf Voids, and to really encourage the sort of micro Blizzard say they want, would be to remove this feature and simply give Voids 6 range straight up.


That's a great idea. Void rays don't need to maintain fire on a single unit to build up charge anymore, so the extended range no longer serves the role of preventing players from microing units away before charge can build up.
Sufinsil
Profile Joined January 2011
United States760 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-01-18 00:19:44
January 18 2013 00:18 GMT
#138
On January 18 2013 08:22 xsnac wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 18 2013 08:18 MilesTeg wrote:
On January 18 2013 07:58 Nazeron wrote:
wonder how the burrow will be utilized against the sentry immortal all in, over i like the changes a lot


I don't understand how burrow is relevant to the sentry immortal all-in?


you make tones of roaches , you burrow move under immortals you unborrow and PROFIT since 3 immortals wont kill more then 3-6 roaches while you move under and neighter will a handful of sentrys


But you could do this now... since you would need lair tech. Burrow is already an option to assist against the all in.

You could have burrow now on Lair vs the all in if anyone really tried to use it. I would say this gives more options for the Zerg early on to burrow trap, burrow harass.
PressItDown
Profile Joined July 2011
Singapore74 Posts
January 18 2013 00:21 GMT
#139
Let's put baneling bombs in the mineral line against a terran who goes with a 1 base opening!
Yes, i suck.
sagefreke
Profile Joined August 2010
United States241 Posts
January 18 2013 00:22 GMT
#140
On January 18 2013 08:43 CrakkaJack wrote:
All zerg units can cloak for no energy or cooldown at hatchery tech... seems like zerg totally needed a buff *sarcasm*


Yeah! All Zergs are now going to be immediately throwing their first 100 gas into burrow tech so that in the off chance that there's a successful hellion run by or marine drop, the Zerg can burrow their drones and get VERY far ahead while they just sit there and not mine any gas/minerals *sarcasm*
yo yo yo
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