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On January 11 2013 14:11 naastyOne wrote:
The MSC/Oracle change makes 0 sence. Terran hav Scan. the early game energy-limited detection.
Difference is that scan effectively costs 270 resources, and detects in one fixed area. While MsC detection was something that you could use to clear half the map of mines, for no real cost. Although I would have considered it a better alternative to severely limit duration on the MsC, or fixing it in place when used. So you still have your easily accesible detection, but no sweeping half the map.
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On January 11 2013 15:06 Swords wrote:Show nested quote +On January 11 2013 07:08 pure.Wasted wrote:On January 11 2013 02:43 shid0x wrote:
well,after playing a few games i'm not that unhappy after all.
The reaper nerf is good,now TvT isn't reaper wars anymore,it seems that blizzard wanted to give terran some overlord or phenix type of scouting unit,well with the new speed and poor damages of the reaper its done ^^
And its a good thing imo Have your expectations for Blizzard sunk so low that the easiest of fixes, a fix that impacts absolutely nothing except the unit in question, to unbreak something Blizzard themselves broke... is an accomplishment? They took WoL Reapers, broke them completely, then reverted them back to roughly WoL levels of uselessness. This took four months. That does not deserve praise. They might as well have not touched the unit whatsoever in this expansion for all the good it's done. T has a strong early game and a weak late game. It does not take a rocket scientist to figure out that experimenting with a tier 2-3 Reaper would be much more worthwhile than going back once again to the precarious balancing act that is a tier 1 harass unit. It's even worse than this if you think about it. In WoL beta (early release?) reapers were overpowered (Morrow's 5 rax reaper rush). Blizzard gradually nerfs them to nothing. HoTS starts, reapers are OP again. Blizzard gradually nerfs them to nothing. They're repeating the same mistakes over and over again. There seems to be a clear lack of learning, which is pretty distressing, considering they'd been talking about changing the reaper in HoTS months before the beta was close to being out.
The reaper right now is NOTHING compared to the few months that reapers dominated in the beta before morrow won iem.
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On January 11 2013 14:07 Khalleb wrote:
It would be cool if they try to change hsm for another spell like... iradiate. I know this won't happen because blizz don't like bw spell but still it would be cool to see how it goes
Oh god no! Not irradiate! I HATED that spell. "That's a nice pack of expensive lurkers you've got there! *click click* They're all dead in a few second now though, and there's nothing you can do about it!"
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On January 11 2013 16:09 gronnelg wrote:Show nested quote +On January 11 2013 14:07 Khalleb wrote:
It would be cool if they try to change hsm for another spell like... iradiate. I know this won't happen because blizz don't like bw spell but still it would be cool to see how it goes Oh god no! Not irradiate! I HATED that spell. "That's a nice pack of expensive lurkers you've got there! *click click* They're all dead in a few second now though, and there's nothing you can do about it!"
You also wouldn't have several stories of lurkers stacked underground in sc2. For two reasons. Both make me sad 
In seriousness, I think irradiate might have a cool place in sc2 if they gave it a shot.
In relevance, I'm very skeptical about this patch. As a protoss I'm more worried about what the tank changes do to zvt than anything, but they might be cool in pvt.
the TW envision swap seems like a minimal effort solution to each spell being too strong. I would far rather they stayed where they were and were nerfed a little.
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On January 11 2013 11:47 zhurai wrote:Show nested quote +On January 11 2013 10:17 Qikz wrote:
Why do people keep mentioning mines on reapers? That'd literally be the worst idea ever for mech as it'd make mines horrible to try and get. lol if so, the unit would be made out of the barracks rather than the factory... which obviously doesn't make sense for mech.
I would redesign the reaper into small robot whatever. Fast, mine deploying little Wall-E. It's a vulture basically but a newer model.
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Blizzard is transforming reapers into a pure scout unit so, why no make the reapers require Engineering Bay and give them some deployable detection device, so terrans can have small radius detection (example wards in lol or dota 2) the whole game without wasting scans or needing something gas heavy like ravens.
So the jump over clifts skill will be usefull to scout, place devices, and keep vision over the map and the reaper will have a significant and a clear role.
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On January 11 2013 17:18 drkcid wrote:
Blizzard is transforming reapers into a pure scout unit so, why no make the reapers require Engineering Bay and give them some deployable detection device, so terrans can have small radius detection (example wards in lol or dota 2) the whole game without wasting scans or needing something gas heavy like ravens.
So the jump over clifts skill will be usefull to scout, place devices, and keep vision over the map and the reaper will have a significant and a clear role.
If we have things your way, Zerg will become the only race with detection that can actually be killed.
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On January 11 2013 17:37 NeWnAr wrote:Show nested quote +On January 11 2013 17:18 drkcid wrote:
Blizzard is transforming reapers into a pure scout unit so, why no make the reapers require Engineering Bay and give them some deployable detection device, so terrans can have small radius detection (example wards in lol or dota 2) the whole game without wasting scans or needing something gas heavy like ravens.
So the jump over clifts skill will be usefull to scout, place devices, and keep vision over the map and the reaper will have a significant and a clear role. If we have things your way, Zerg will become the only race with detection that can actually be killed.
Sorry I dont get it. Obververs can be killed, ravens can be killed, and reapers (and the imaginary device like a ward or creep tumor can also can be destroyed) I dont see any big deal.
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The interesting thing about this is it shows the large degree of variance between what most people want starcraft 2 to be and what blizzard has decided they want starcraft 2 to be. I have never heard anyone who plays the game seriously ask for reapers to be mixed in to the lategame for "scouting". I don't think it would be very interesting to watch, either. Still though, these ideas persist, resulting in patch after patch of nonsense.
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On January 11 2013 17:43 drkcid wrote:Show nested quote +On January 11 2013 17:37 NeWnAr wrote:On January 11 2013 17:18 drkcid wrote:
Blizzard is transforming reapers into a pure scout unit so, why no make the reapers require Engineering Bay and give them some deployable detection device, so terrans can have small radius detection (example wards in lol or dota 2) the whole game without wasting scans or needing something gas heavy like ravens.
So the jump over clifts skill will be usefull to scout, place devices, and keep vision over the map and the reaper will have a significant and a clear role. If we have things your way, Zerg will become the only race with detection that can actually be killed. Sorry I dont get it. Obververs can be killed, ravens can be killed, and reapers (and the imaginary device like a ward or creep tumor can also can be destroyed) I dont see any big deal.
Revealation
Scan
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On January 11 2013 17:44 32 wrote:
The interesting thing about this is it shows the large degree of variance between what most people want starcraft 2 to be and what blizzard has decided they want starcraft 2 to be. I have never heard anyone who plays the game seriously ask for reapers to be mixed in to the lategame for "scouting". I don't think it would be very interesting to watch, either. Still though, these ideas persist, resulting in patch after patch of nonsense.
I loved the alfa reaper jumping over clifts and bombimg buildings but If you read DK thoughts they want mix reapers into armies fos scouting pusposes. Also "The changes in this patch are aimed at keeping Reapers as very dangerous units" Its that really true?.
@NeWnAr ah ok.
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My thoughts on this (on b.net forums): b.net post.
Other than the one Reaper scout, Reapers are just useless now, being a very expensive marine requiring 45 seconds to build and having only 4.5 range.
I was hoping they'd take the middleground for the damage change but just flat out 4x2 damage is abysmal.
The Reaper is just a glorified Observer now.
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edit:
HoTS is not going to be an amazing multiplayer experience.
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Honestly I'm glad that Protoss lost some very early detection. Cannon and observers should be enough. With such easy detection it ruins the chances of other strategies becoming successful like DT rush, cloak banshee, burrowed roaches, etc. There wasn't much of a trade off by granting Protoss the ability to get early detection. Now they have easy detection in both robo and stargate.
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I haven't played Hots yet but i really dislike the direction blizzard is taking..
Are they trying to turn every game into a no rush 15 min one?
Spores without evo chambers, siege tanks without upgrades, mothership core... How can you still be aggressive early on?
I'm no fan of cheeses but they keep the game interesting. It's not like every game is already a macrofest right?
Plus those changes that make no sense... Every change they reverted were OBVIOUSLY awful . I don't understand how people working on the game even think of those ( raven hsm that did not transform it into a mini battle cruiser AT ALL ).
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Iam pretty ok with these changes exept for one point. I really don't know why they kill the reaper, again. They v tried they best for 4months to make these useful, wanted people to play it more and then... that. Reapers are even more useless than in WoL now. Look like they give up on it.
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On January 11 2013 18:44 TeslasPigeon wrote:
Honestly I'm glad that Protoss lost some very early detection. Cannon and observers should be enough. With such easy detection it ruins the chances of other strategies becoming successful like DT rush, cloak banshee, burrowed roaches, etc. There wasn't much of a trade off by granting Protoss the ability to get early detection. Now they have easy detection in both robo and stargate.
Iam ok too. MSC was really too convenient. Mines, dt, banshee, etc will be useful again. The change is still good for protoss i think, they can do a stargate opening and still have detection without robo. Way better than before the MSC detection.
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On paper, these changes looks amazing to me.
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On January 11 2013 19:04 Leafboy wrote:
I haven't played Hots yet but i really dislike the direction blizzard is taking..
Are they trying to turn every game into a no rush 15 min one?
No ... you are supposed to do a Siege Tank rush now against Protoss since they removed the upgrade.
On January 11 2013 19:48 Excludos wrote:
On paper, these changes looks amazing to me.
On screen they look totally ridiculous to me ...
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On January 11 2013 20:38 Rabiator wrote:Show nested quote +On January 11 2013 19:04 Leafboy wrote:
I haven't played Hots yet but i really dislike the direction blizzard is taking..
Are they trying to turn every game into a no rush 15 min one? No ... you are supposed to do a Siege Tank rush now against Protoss since they removed the upgrade.
Assuming you are serious, you do realise siege tank rush is barely boosted? By the time you arrive at the enemy, especially if you wait on your second tank which is kinda common sense, you have the upgrade anyway, and your number of tanks is limitted by production speed. So you can start stim earlier or make another medivac. Nice, nothing ground breaking and not nearly enough to compensate for photon overcharge.
So only one it is really a significant change on the offense is when you proxy your factory. However on the defense it is a much more significant change and a large boost to 1 rax FE and similar tactics vs 1-1-1 in tvt (imo an unneeded boost). In TvZ it will help alot against roach rushes and in TvP against 4-gate and all combinations.
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EPT
