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On January 10 2013 13:35 Sakray wrote:
Since they don't know what units to give to Terran, they just give them unbelievable huge buffs, and Toss is getting nerfed, and nerfed, and nerfed.
Then when the game gets released and the other races get nerfed and toss buffed up, it'll be "all they do is nerf my race  '.
Sounds familiar.
The oracle change makes sense though. Time warp looked absolutely nasty and toss needs a more resilient alternative to the obs incase of repeated detection sniping.
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On January 10 2013 13:45 The_Darkness wrote:Show nested quote +On January 10 2013 11:50 YyapSsap wrote:
Im going to withhold judgement til i get about 50 games in to get a feel for these changes. Why would you ever withhold judgment when you can make a snap critical judgment based on nothing but speculation that might turn out to be right? 
You mean like the first 30 pages of this thread? 
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On January 10 2013 13:52 Rabiator wrote:
Are they really this stupid? Removing the upgrade for Siege Tank does NOT buff its performance and that is what is bad about it.
I think its just the research. So auto siege mode... This is so weird. Fixing wrong things imo. Many better ways to approach the game to make it a lot better.
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On January 10 2013 14:00 ElMeanYo wrote:Show nested quote +On January 10 2013 13:45 The_Darkness wrote:On January 10 2013 11:50 YyapSsap wrote:
Im going to withhold judgement til i get about 50 games in to get a feel for these changes. Why would you ever withhold judgment when you can make a snap critical judgment based on nothing but speculation that might turn out to be right? You mean like the first 30 pages of this thread?
We know exactly what happens with the MSC doesn't have detection.
Proxy Widow Mine rushes are completely imbalanced vs Protoss.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=384139¤tpage=2#29
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On January 10 2013 13:57 Huragius wrote:Show nested quote +On January 10 2013 13:54 syroz wrote:I v played few TvP mech style, 100% winrate :D HSM is crazy good, a real splash damage dealer. I felt there fear Hellbat is better, not really vs zealot but in general in big fights. I even add some mines late game for fun, they new ability is nice finally ahah. I am happy. I don't get it. How is Raven working against your Protoss opponents ? Aren't they making HTs or what ?
Yeah they didnt feeback a lot. I guess they are not use to it. But the range is huge, i use tanks and mines in fights to cover them. Raven became hard to reach.
And i sent some HSM on their army while some diversion with hellion and stuff, if they are not focus enought it can be deadly
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I think the people complaining about the immortal do not know the real problems with mech. Immortals are a WoL problem
The immortal was solved with the battle hellions. Tanks/battlehellions now trade well with toss ground armies and the "immobility problem" is mostly terran disillusion, EMP is only needed if your enemy has 15 archons since archons are so big and absorb tank splash and have tons of health, but getting 15 archons is extremely extremely lategame anyway
the REAL problem with mech is now air. You can go mech, but its kind of pointless because lategame you will need to mass air anyway to combat the protoss mass air. In WoL is was very hard for protoss to go mass air and it wasnt that powerful, in HOTS this changes
mech DOESNT need any buffs for the reasons you think it does, the tanks dont need increased damage, the tanks do not have immobility problems (at least against protoss ground/immortals), the tanks do not need buffs to be able to "control space" better because you have planetaries and sensor towers and you already are well capable maneuvering with mech against a PROTOSS GROUND army
immortals are NOT the problem with mech anymore
the problem with mech is its a pointless and fruitless ambition, because EVERY GAME you will need to mass air anyway to fight the protosses mass air.
air is the problem with mech. protoss air is EXTREMELY powerful. As a master protoss player, I feel protoss air should be nerfed slightly, terran should be given slightly more anti air power, and this may actually lead to mech being too powerful and protoss ground units may need to be buffed to maintain balance.
I highly disagree with blizzards goal of making "air" viable in HOTS. sorry but RTS should always be ~80% ground ~20% air focused in order to be exciting, zergs biggest design flaw in WoL is the race ended up being so broodlord focused and the last 2 years would have been much more exciting if zerg had been balanced differently at release with weaker broodlords and stronger ground.
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60 days left, and they once again go for a whole new direction. At this point, they really need to reintroduce the firebat as an infantry unit and let the hellion as it is in wol. HP change, bio tag and now the BF doesn't transfer ? Top notch design.
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Like everyone have said already.... No siege mode research....
This clearly shows Blizzard does not know what they are doing.
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On January 10 2013 14:08 bankobauss wrote:
I think the people complaining about the immortal do not know the real problems with mech. Immortals are a WoL problem
The immortal was solved with the battle hellions. Tanks/battlehellions now trade well with toss ground armies and the "immobility problem" is mostly terran disillusion, EMP is only needed if your enemy has 15 archons since archons are so big and absorb tank splash and have tons of health, but getting 15 archons is extremely extremely lategame anyway
the REAL problem with mech is now air. You can go mech, but its kind of pointless because lategame you will need to mass air anyway to combat the protoss mass air. In WoL is was very hard for protoss to go mass air and it wasnt that powerful, in HOTS this changes
mech DOESNT need any buffs for the reasons you think it does, the tanks dont need increased damage, the tanks do not have immobility problems (at least against protoss ground/immortals), the tanks do not need buffs to be able to "control space" better because you have planetaries and sensor towers and you already are well capable maneuvering with mech against a PROTOSS GROUND army
immortals are NOT the problem with mech anymore
the problem with mech is its a pointless and fruitless ambition, because EVERY GAME you will need to mass air anyway to fight the protosses mass air.
air is the problem with mech. protoss air is EXTREMELY powerful. As a master protoss player, I feel protoss air should be nerfed slightly, terran should be given slightly more anti air power, and this may actually lead to mech being too powerful and protoss ground units may need to be buffed to maintain balance.
I highly disagree with blizzards goal of making "air" viable in HOTS. sorry but RTS should always be ~80% ground ~20% air focused in order to be exciting, zergs biggest design flaw in WoL is the race ended up being so broodlord focused and the last 2 years would have been much more exciting if zerg had been balanced differently at release with weaker broodlords and stronger ground.
I agree 100% ground armies honestly melt to mech and it feels quite strong.the main problem is you forfeit all map control for a strong army which is very expensive only to discover your opponent is going air and your army is now shit.sky toss I am pretty sure will get a nerf because right now, voidrays are really insane and tempest are not much better. we will see what happens though
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damn no more siege tank will make 1/1/1 even deadlier again lol, may be timing attack too. And vortex is gone, a bit sad.
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On January 10 2013 14:00 Kal_rA wrote:Show nested quote +On January 10 2013 13:52 Rabiator wrote:
Are they really this stupid? Removing the upgrade for Siege Tank does NOT buff its performance and that is what is bad about it. I think its just the research. So auto siege mode... This is so weird. Fixing wrong things imo. Many better ways to approach the game to make it a lot better.
Yes, but researching the siege mode was NOT the problem... Problem was that mech is so not stable in all stages to really everything.
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Love this patch...if all goes good hope atleast tanks not having to research siege will stay for evaaaaaaa
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On January 10 2013 14:01 BronzeKnee wrote:Show nested quote +On January 10 2013 14:00 ElMeanYo wrote:On January 10 2013 13:45 The_Darkness wrote:On January 10 2013 11:50 YyapSsap wrote:
Im going to withhold judgement til i get about 50 games in to get a feel for these changes. Why would you ever withhold judgment when you can make a snap critical judgment based on nothing but speculation that might turn out to be right? You mean like the first 30 pages of this thread? We know exactly what happens with the MSC doesn't have detection. Proxy Widow Mine rushes are completely imbalanced vs Protoss. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=384139¤tpage=2#29
Was thinking this too. Either I'm forced into rushing a stargate or forced into rushing a robo for observation. I think the days of FE PvT is trashed.
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On January 10 2013 07:19 Xanbatou wrote:
Sigh..every time I am excited for the patch notes to see if they are going to nerf widow mines so that they don't nullify mutas, but every time I am disappointed. Widow mines right now are the only reason I am not playing the game :/.
These patch notes are getting more and more disappointing because they are just making it more clear that blizzard has no idea what they are doing.
I second this window mines are OP.
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On January 10 2013 13:14 avilo wrote:
So, I played a few games, HSM energy change is of course good because now you build the unit and it is able to do something! Aka, you build ravens, they have a missile, so if Zerg remaxes on 20 corruptors or what not you actually have a fighting chance.
As for mech TvP...played 1 game of it, and that's enough for me. Nothing changed. Tempest + templar still beats everything, add in carriers and it's even worse for Terran/mech.
Are you REALLY saying that the changed hellbat does nothing...? I doubt there is a way for Protoss to stop Hellbat all ins in any shape or form. Just get 2 reactor facts with hellbats and kill him. Maybe getting a bunch of sentries and forcefielding the choke on CK... but even that choke needs 3 FFs. and you get siege mode for free now, so you can just get one tank and stop him from FF'ing...
But yes, I somehow forgot but now realize they did nothing to address the air problems =/. Maybe they think that making hellbats/mech stupidly strong on the ground will force protoss to not be able to just mass tempest HT, because of the high threat of terran just killing you.
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This is by far the worst patch blizzard has ever come up with. And thats saying something. Absolutely terrible. They actually think removing siege mode fixes mech in TvP? Im certain they neither watch pro games and they certainly dont play in them. Its a complete joke that this is what we get from them. So glad Ive quit.
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On January 10 2013 14:00 Kal_rA wrote:Show nested quote +On January 10 2013 13:52 Rabiator wrote:
Are they really this stupid? Removing the upgrade for Siege Tank does NOT buff its performance and that is what is bad about it. I think its just the research. So auto siege mode... This is so weird. Fixing wrong things imo. Many better ways to approach the game to make it a lot better.
"Remove the upgrade" (or merge the upgrades) seems to be their standard answer to "buffing" everything, but researching upgrades is one of the key things about the game.
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well this is awkward. I guess we have to see how it plays out like any patch but I have no fucking clue what blizzard is trying to improve for HoTS. They are quite schizophrenic. I'm looking forward to HOTS less and less .
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I fought my disappointment at not having a direct damage buff to tanks and found that I really like this patch. If I was meching in TvP I can now utilize the reaper to see if an immortal attack is coming (the all-in that would counter mech) without burning scans and keep an eye on their third. With that in mind I can safely hold any other early attack with tanks / bunkers and do a good timing attack to contain the toss to 2 bases and transition into either ghost or air. Also appreciate that the damage boost to battle hellions in combination with widow mines will hopefully deal with zealots a little faster before they reach the tanks. Widow mines will also be more difficult to deal with without default detection on the mothership core. Overall a good patch in my opinion.
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Take a deep breath.
Now go test it on beta.
See actually how it affects the game.
Leave good feedback.
Speculation and raging on TL does nothing.
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EPT
