EPTAs for mech TvP...played 1 game of it, and that's enough for me. Nothing changed. Tempest + templar still beats everything, add in carriers and it's even worse for Terran/mech.
Beta Balance Update #11 (Jan 9, 2013) - Page 30
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avilo
United States4100 Posts
As for mech TvP...played 1 game of it, and that's enough for me. Nothing changed. Tempest + templar still beats everything, add in carriers and it's even worse for Terran/mech. | ||
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vesicular
United States1310 Posts
On January 10 2013 12:46 oxxo wrote: Trust me, they know exactly what is wrong with TvP, just like everybody else on this forum. But the problem as we all know is in how they designed Protoss in sc2 and they won't change its core because it would mean that they needed to remake Protoss as a whole and that would also mean that we were right all along, they were wrong and failed at their job. They would also get a shitstorm from people that like sc2 protoss like it is. You could say this about all the races really. | ||
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Steelo_Rivers
United States1968 Posts
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Huragius
Lithuania1506 Posts
On January 10 2013 13:06 Plansix wrote: Thorzain seems to be kicking ass and taking names post patch. We will have to see, rather than theory craft. How is this any relevant to what I said ? Did I say that Terran can't win? The idea of my post is that this patch didn't address any of balance/design issues (mostly design) and is kinda random. | ||
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vesicular
United States1310 Posts
On January 10 2013 13:13 Schlendrian wrote: Regarding the Siege Tank, I would like to see Blizzard reintroducing something similar to the Overkill from Brood War. Everyone wants to see this, unfortunately, Blizzard has an aversion to anything done correctly in BW. It's going to take years of kicking and screaming to get them to put this in the game. | ||
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gosublade
632 Posts
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Dynamitekid
United States55 Posts
BW = 50% attack speed. SC2 = 20% attack speed. Fuking pathetic. | ||
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vol_
Australia1608 Posts
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Destroyr
Germany299 Posts
 . I have not played the beta. And I don't have that much time. Should I buy the addon I don't know.But again as in so many other demonstrations blizzard has at least a strange way of reasoning decisions. But maybe I am only a fool and Toss needs to play aggressive every game vs T because their late game composition is weaker. LOL | ||
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Sakray
France2198 Posts
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Nezgar
Germany535 Posts
On January 10 2013 12:32 Warpish wrote: If not even the blue flame upgrade can be used to improve the Hellbats, wouldn't it be logical to separate the two units? Maybe replace it for some bio unit called Firebat that could be healed with Medivacs... The Hellbat... can actually be healed by a medivac. And repaired, whatever you choose. The general theme of the patch seems to be "you don't need any tech for basic mech units, have fun!" which is kinda meh. IIRC they once said that the problem with mech is that it is hard transition into. So the changes aren't surprising in that context. The problem though is that the patch makes timings akin to the 1-1-1 much stronger as they will hit the protoss earlier. With the detection from the MsC gone it becomes a real pain to hold such pushes if it includes cloaked banshees. Regarding the reaper: It might be a less dangerous unit now, but it still is a very great scouting tool. Some folks complained that it is too hard to scout as terran against protoss - yes, they really did - and well, there you go. Besides that scouting reapers will come earlier and don't need to be upgraded anymore. You can go full mech with a proxy reaper as scouting / harass. The nerf to the damage was neccessary as proxy reaper would otherwise be just too deadly. The medivac upgrade still buffs the energy-efficiency so it's not that useless if you think about it. The healing rate was simply overpowered as it made drops during the mid- to lategame too hard to deal with. You could do 2 full warp-in cycles and still would have a hard time killing a drop. It also made drops a no-brainer as even if you did no economic damage or where not able to snipe any tech, you could still trade well with a failed drop. Everything should have risk to it, even terran drops. Besides: Healing rate made bio way too powerful against gateway units in the mid- to lategame. So it's an overall expected and justified nerf. The hellbat buff on the other hand... No, just no! The downside to mech was that it needed time to get to decent numbers in order to be effective. The problem with mech is that it gets exponentially better the more units you have. A full 200/200 mech army with spellcaster-support was basically impossible to engage and kill. The change to the damage and splash causes them to be equally usefull in great numbers and in small numbers during the early game. They will even be effective against non-zealot armies. They have the same dps than a stalker which is just absurd. Protoss changes are a flatout nerf which is disappointing. Oracles have rarely enough energy to cast envivision if you use them as a harassunit aswell. Defensive oracles are too much of an investment to justify. And Templar tech once again has no source of mobile detection. Really sad... | ||
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The_Darkness
United States910 Posts
On January 10 2013 11:50 YyapSsap wrote: Im going to withhold judgement til i get about 50 games in to get a feel for these changes. Why would you ever withhold judgment when you can make a snap critical judgment based on nothing but speculation that might turn out to be right? | ||
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Rabiator
Germany3948 Posts
Reactor-built Reapers? REALLY????? After that damage nerf they wont be a problem anymore, because no one will build them. The Raven change goes from bad to worse, because the new Seeker Missile attack version is less stylish than the old one and it was already "outrunnable" before. The only right thing they did was reducing the energy cost, but that is now the same cost as Fungal Growth ... I wonder if they think we should mass them like Infestors, but they would have to change the cost of autoturret to 25. | ||
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ETisME
12501 Posts
not sure if good or not | ||
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Huragius
Lithuania1506 Posts
On January 10 2013 13:52 Rabiator wrote: Are they really this stupid? Removing the upgrade for Siege Tank does NOT buff its performance and that is what is bad about it. Reactor-built Reapers? REALLY????? After that damage nerf they wont be a problem anymore, because no one will build them. The Raven change goes from bad to worse, because the new Seeker Missile attack version is less stylish than the old one and it was already "outrunnable" before. The only right thing they did was reducing the energy cost, but that is now the same cost as Fungal Growth ... I wonder if they think we should mass them like Infestors, but they would have to change the cost of autoturret to 25. People will build them. But only one and no more during all game lol. | ||
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syroz
France249 Posts
HSM is crazy good, a real splash damage dealer. I felt there fear Hellbat is better, not really vs zealot but in general in big fights. I even add some mines late game for fun, their new ability is nice finally ahah.I am happy. (reapers really really suck btw) | ||
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BronzeKnee
United States5217 Posts
On January 10 2013 13:44 Nezgar wrote: Protoss changes are a flatout nerf which is disappointing. Oracles have rarely enough energy to cast envivision if you use them as a harassunit aswell. Defensive oracles are too much of an investment to justify. And Templar tech once again has no source of mobile detection. Really sad... So, how are we supposed to deal with Widow Mine rushes again when Factories are in my base a full 2 minutes before an Observer can come out? http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=384139¤tpage=2#29 What the hell Blizzard... did you forgot about the proxy Widow Mine rush in PvT? This game is turning into such a joke. | ||
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Huragius
Lithuania1506 Posts
On January 10 2013 13:54 syroz wrote: I v played few TvP mech style, 100% winrate :D HSM is crazy good, a real splash damage dealer. I felt there fear Hellbat is better, not really vs zealot but in general in big fights. I even add some mines late game for fun, they new ability is nice finally ahah.I am happy. I don't get it. How is Raven working against your Protoss opponents ? Aren't they making HTs or what ? | ||
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Kal_rA
United States2925 Posts
Reapers are the new bunkers I guess.... And WTF NO SIEGE MODE RESEARCH 0__0 (this isnt starcraft anymore lol) | ||
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vega12
Japan73 Posts
On January 10 2013 13:28 Dynamitekid wrote: I am still wondering when are adrenaline glands going to get a buff. BW = 50% attack speed. SC2 = 20% attack speed. Fuking pathetic. Adrenal Glands also giving the ability to dodge around 50% of splash damage for Zerglings would be pretty good too. Would allow them to deal much better with things like Colossus and Tanks. | ||
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