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On January 10 2013 08:07 Zarahtra wrote:Show nested quote +On January 10 2013 07:55 NovemberstOrm wrote:
The siege mode change actually makes a ton of sense, reduces the possibilty of gateway allins, roach allins, and roach bane allins working.
Making it easier to get to mid-late game mech
Still reading through the rest of the patch. I have just watched HotS, so my experience is very limited, but was that even an issue? You just have to scout it. While I hate allins, I generally don't like it when blizzard just goes "here you are safe now" and removes any real need to scout and adjust to your opponent. Don't get me wrong, I mean you will still have to have tech lab'd factory and a siege tank out, but it's still a step in that direction, a step which I as a terran don't feel was really warranted.
Actually mech was having a lot of troubles against early all ins (blink stalkers...) and wasnt able to pressure the protoss due to early detection and PF Nexus.
Guess it's not the case anymore.
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Don't like this patch much.
No siege makes tank stronger in TvZ but makes not much difference in TvP except for holding off timing attacks.
Tank needed a damage buff or something, not less time to bring it into the game.
Also don't like the removal of envision from MSC. Having envision on MSC made Protoss alot of more interesting because it allowed any of the 3 tech trees to be viable (gateway, stargate or robo).
Now you need to get a robo or stargate.
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LOL I guess this is what a weeks brainstorming looks likee >.> well see how it goes i guess :S
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In terran's factory, >Build Siege Tanks >tank does not siege... I dont even...
this patch. hell, its about time they notice that.
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Awful patch.
Now the hellbat in battle mode is like a 100 min roach, one of the most loved and with better design of the game. sigh
Instead of designing deep play mech, they are going once again for the easy road.
Also, Envision on Msc was one of the best decisions in long time: Fucked up again.
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Pretty big changes for terran o.o
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On January 10 2013 08:04 The_Darkness wrote:Show nested quote +On January 10 2013 07:56 Bagi wrote:On January 10 2013 07:54 megapants wrote:
patch seems all over the place. "I don't understand why certain changes are being made, so they must be bad." SC2 community in a nutshell. In another nutshell: "These changes did not address the particular issues I have with the game and the game does not play out exactly like I want it to play out. In particular strategy X is not viable and as a result the game is not interesting and is badly designed. Blizzard has no idea how to fix the fundamental design flaws with SC2 and is incompetent. I have no faith in Blizzard. [say something about Broodwar distinguishing it from SC2 and establishing your authority as an RTS design expert]."
Well played.
Can't wait till "just add BW units/design" becomes the Godwin's law of the Starcraft community.
Yes, it's that retarded.
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This siege research change isn't a mech buff, it's a 1/1/1-type allin buff. Mech will still be trash. The hellbat change is hard to judge from just these numbers, gonna have to see it in action. If caduceus reactor thing on medivacs doesn't change anything again, you might as well remove it from the game. Reapers were indeed retarded due to burst vs light, though it sounds like they're just trash now except for once again 1 scouting reaper.
Is the seeker missile always-hit or can you dodge it? Cos with 5 seconds casting time it's impossible NOT to dodge.
Fungal vs armored nerfed, stalker/immortal/colossus are armored right? Then congrats to protoss.
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I can't believe they messed with the oracle. After all of that time with the oracle being worthless/gimmicky/etc, it became a great unit. Now it's back to being 1 dimensional? Time warp on the mothership core? Personally, I don't like to bring the mothership core with my army, as I'd rather use it in a defensive fashion. With the speed of the core and the lack of HP, they may as well just remove time warp. Envision on the oracle, that's a pretty expensive observer. You supposed to make 2 ridiculously priced observers against the 1/1/1 if you went the stargate route? W/e. Make the game more all-in friendly so anyone with 1 hand can become GM (like it is in WoL). With the new reapers, Toss can never fast expand, as Terran can just reactively make reapers. Again w/e. This close to release and they come out with one of their more radical patches to date? If the game needs that many changes, go ahead and push back the release date.
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On January 10 2013 07:59 Ramone wrote:
The reaper change sounds kinda crappy on the surface, but having them more accessible will probably guarantee that we'll see them used regularly. They only 50/50 and can be produced from reactors now.They will provide a good solid scout, force a a player to keep a few units patrolling around the edge of their bases, and are still a threat to kill a few probes if the player doesn't respond.
They might even see some use lategame now in small little packs.
Interested to see how it works out in the end.
I hope you are right, that would, indeed, be pretty cool. I just think that, in most cases, it will be better to save the gas for medivacs and just drop marines instead. More damage, and you won't have to build any units you wouldn't want for a main engagement anyway.
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Oh and say good by to 1rax FE's TvT.. I imagine early tank pushes will be ruthless lol, BUT NOW WE CAN PUNISH 5 QUEEN ZERGS WOOT
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On January 10 2013 08:06 Insoleet wrote:Show nested quote +On January 10 2013 08:01 Fate91 wrote:
I have played beta soooo much lately, watching PvZ late game has been a joke now. Without Vortex killing 200/200 broodlord infestor corrupter armies is the hardest thing now. I think Vortex should have been reduced in Radius size. Need something to help Protoss late game. You already have the strongest lategame air army lol. Tempest + new void rays + carriers + HT
For one HT doesn't count as airtoss just so u know. Two Void rays will be nerfed, i put money on it. Tempest is slow and useless and can be countered hard even though it has insane range. Carriers are still hard to add while maintaining a good eco and take too long to build. The army everyone is referring to as air toss is super late game like 40 minutes +. I am referring to the 17-22 minute broodlord infestor corrupter composition. Without Vortex that is hard to fight. Now when i am talking about this, this is coming from a high masters protoss point of view. Fighting High masters/GM zergs is unbelievably hard without Vortex. They should have compromised and weakened the radius of Vortex not just remove it. When has Blizzard came out and said hey we see something different with Vortex we will work on it, besides killing one single unit -_- Also EMP could stop Mothership with Vortex and you could take over Mothership with Vortex which made for interesting games. No need to remove it
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I hope patch #12 will include demoting Browder and Kim to janitors or security guards
They are making Terrans, the only well designed race of WoL, into a timing and gimmicks race. WHY REMOVING SIEGE MODE UPGRADE? removing upgrades do not boost an unit, it buffs the timings that include them. Siege tanks should be a late game siege and position unit, not some gimmick unit. As for reapers well, my Mech build TvT could have countered a fast reaper build since i had a marine and helion when it arrived in base. Now it will arrive before, and may even outrun the helion.
This is a joke, SC2's dev team is a fucking joke. The philosophy of "throwing shit on the wall and see if it sticks" is in order here. I don't see anything promoting dynamic play and going away from deathballs and timings.. it's only getting worse.
User was temp banned for this post.
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On January 10 2013 08:09 Insoleet wrote:Show nested quote +On January 10 2013 08:07 Zarahtra wrote:On January 10 2013 07:55 NovemberstOrm wrote:
The siege mode change actually makes a ton of sense, reduces the possibilty of gateway allins, roach allins, and roach bane allins working.
Making it easier to get to mid-late game mech
Still reading through the rest of the patch. I have just watched HotS, so my experience is very limited, but was that even an issue? You just have to scout it. While I hate allins, I generally don't like it when blizzard just goes "here you are safe now" and removes any real need to scout and adjust to your opponent. Don't get me wrong, I mean you will still have to have tech lab'd factory and a siege tank out, but it's still a step in that direction, a step which I as a terran don't feel was really warranted. Actually mech was having a lot of troubles against early all ins (blink stalkers...) and wasnt able to pressure the protoss due to early detection and PF Nexus. Guess it's not the case anymore.
Aye, well added in my... conclusion was the MSC change meaning no detection for blink stalkers. Also the fact they changed hellbats already helps, the siege mode is just a very unnecessary buff imo, should atleast let the dust settle with the changes they already made.
Edit: That is to say, I was also thinking of the other buffs, that they'd help a lot vs allins anyway for mech.
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So umm how did they make mech work better mid / late game?
The whole design of the hellbat / hellion just makes no sense. Half machine, half biological... magically has more hit points and loses an upgrade in one mode.
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hahahah siege with no upgrade , since im terran, i see dem eearly siege tank pushin comin, i think this is the wrong way to make tanks stronger, tvt reapers now gone , but everyone will go now for super early siegetank push gg
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Really odd changes in general. Can't say I agree with all of them. Siege tank is the biggest one IMO. I'm gonna play a few games and then decide how I feel.
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Vortex was a boring spell and that's good news that they removed it.
They should just nerf the fungle so that you cant be chainfungled anymore and protoss wont need vortex anymore.
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i don't understand wtf they are thinking with these changes to terran. removing the siege tank upgrade ONLY serves better all-ins which we don't really need. reapers are pretty fast by default now but i think their damage is too low, and they are pretty expensive in gas and time for being useful(i know 50 doesn't sound much but with 4*2 damage you need a lot of them, even with reactors making marines seems better) i hope i will be proven wrong by pro players though. medivac heal was pretty strong before but caduceus reactor is pretty pointless, it will only help high templar feedback now. and about the hellbat, its not even a new unit, i don't know why they are investing so much time on it. we need something new for terran in hots imo  it looks like we are gonna play pretty much the same thing with some widow mines
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THIS IS WHAT THEY HAVE BEEN WORKING ON THAT WHOLE TIME GUYS.
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EPT
