On December 13 2012 08:50 Xanbatou wrote: why the fuck would they reduce widow mine attack priority?
Because mass widow mines atm are being used as meat shields in the late game.
This is a buff/nerf. Buff because late game widow mines can now "safely" reposition in combat with drilling claws. An enemy has to individually target them down. Nerf because late game, widow mines cannot be used to "tank" for marines by walking in front of them. They have close to double the HP of a marine.
lol why would you not use a Hellion in that situation, if you wanted to use anything? I don't see how this was ever a legitimate concern, having a more expensive, slower to build, higher supply unit tanking for Marines with Medivacs. Why would you not just use more Marines?
Because 12 hellions does not do 480 splash damage when burrowed or kill 12x 160hp units (excluding splash).
ATM 6 ultralisks and 50 lings can roflstomp thor/hellion of equal supply, not if its 6 thors + 12 drill mines. Patch #9 makes drill mine/marine/medivac mid-game deathball very dangerous, since enemy's attack will hit the marine FIRST giving time for the drill mines to burrow. See Dragon's use of drill mines, from 10m onwards:
would love to see more muta play again, but comparing relative unit strengths it doesnt seem too strong on paper
wol muta is pretty bad in zvt atm and average in zvp
the buff to muta is nice, but the buff to phoenix and the widow mine look a little stronger, so dont know if the buff is enough to encourage more muta play in hots
also baffled that they dont buff the hydra already, with the quadruple nerf hammer on the infestor its about time other zerg units get bigger changes
There are pheonix which with the +2 range buff can deal with mutas no problem...are u sure you are kidding about using tempest vs mutas?
well you know Mutas pop out like 10 at a time while phxs dont. Also it the +2 range requires a Fleet Beacon. So getting to that tech path in 2 base then Zerg tech switching to roaches so easily.
Woa.. more forgiveness for muta's control, four times more, with almost nothing improved on the real muta problem, the hive tech. Zerg still need to basetrade against protoss even with 4hp regen mutas, mutas need an hive upgrade not a easier control (last patch) and more forgiveness (this patch) .. They're going in the wrong direction.
Not really that much of a fan of the tempest now making carriers in PvP and BCs in PvT even more obsolete than they already are. Its nice colossi gets a hard counter in PvP and also nice Ps get a solid weapon against zerg BLs though. So both good and bad.
I'd prefer to have upgrades either separated and cheaper, or shared completly and more expensive. This will just mess up so many things. What's the point having 0/3 Vikings when you can't kill things you need to kill with them? Like Tempest/Broodlords? I was playing TvP mech so far in HotS and when P mix in some air (tempest/void ray most likely) I could go toe to toe with them as long as I engaged properly. Bc's were not an option already, now it's ridiculous to even thing about them. I think TvP mech is now officialy TvZ 2/2 timing before broods from WoL.. The new Thor needs buff against air, or go back to shared upgrades, or fix Raven seeker missile, something or we are back in WoL.
On December 13 2012 08:50 Xanbatou wrote: why the fuck would they reduce widow mine attack priority?
Because mass widow mines atm are being used as meat shields in the late game.
This is a buff/nerf. Buff because late game widow mines can now "safely" reposition in combat with drilling claws. An enemy has to individually target them down. Nerf because late game, widow mines cannot be used to "tank" for marines by walking in front of them. They have close to double the HP of a marine.
lol why would you not use a Hellion in that situation, if you wanted to use anything? I don't see how this was ever a legitimate concern, having a more expensive, slower to build, higher supply unit tanking for Marines with Medivacs. Why would you not just use more Marines?
Because 12 hellions does not do 480 splash damage when burrowed or kill 12x 160hp units (excluding splash).
ATM 6 ultralisks and 50 lings can roflstomp thor/hellion of equal supply, not if its 6 thors + 12 drill mines. Patch #9 makes drill mine/marine/medivac mid-game deathball very dangerous, since enemy's attack will hit the marine FIRST giving time for the drill mines to burrow. See Dragon's use of drill mines, from 10m onwards:
Did you link the wrong game? Since that game has nothing about what you describe. He only has widow mine for mineral line defense, and did some drops with them, which were ridiculously effective since the toss lacked detection, but thats just like DT drops, if your enemy has no detection you are in a good spot.
At no point did he do anything like walking them in front of his army, or having a significant amount of them with his army, yes he had one in his final attack which was slightly ahead, but he also had 4 times the army.
On December 13 2012 17:35 Everlong wrote: I'd prefer to have upgrades either separated and cheaper, or shared completly and more expensive. This will just mess up so many things. What's the point having 0/3 Vikings when you can't kill things you need to kill with them? Like Tempest/Broodlords? I was playing TvP mech so far in HotS and when P mix in some air (tempest/void ray most likely) I could go toe to toe with them as long as I engaged properly. Bc's were not an option already, now it's ridiculous to even thing about them. I think TvP mech is now officialy TvZ 2/2 timing before broods from WoL.. The new Thor needs buff against air, or go back to shared upgrades, or fix Raven seeker missile, something or we are back in WoL.
Armor upgrades are combined because they are less useful than weapons. People research mech weapons or air weapon before armor because it's simply more useful, so they combined the two weaker upgrade to soften the mech/air transition. Having 3/3 vikings against the first group of corruptors/brood lords didn't sound right anyway.
80 Tempest damage versus Massive sounds too much, and I'm a Protoss player. You only need four tempest to one-shot a colossus or brood lord, probably down to three with 3/3 upgrades. At 15 range. With the possibility to use Revelation...
I like the muta regeneration. Makes sense, they are very expensive and regeneration will help them recover from widow mine strikes. Not sure if that will be imba or not, but it sure sounds better than yet another speed upgrade.
On December 13 2012 07:38 SarcasmMonster wrote: I love balance patches <3
Edit: Mutalisks should "leech", ie. gain life for every Glaive wurm + splash that hits an enemy unit/strucutre.
That way it rewards the player for being active and attacking/harassing by healing them. If you can splash 3 units, than that procs the leech 3 times. The passive regen is nice but I think it can be better
On December 13 2012 07:38 SarcasmMonster wrote: I love balance patches <3
Edit: Mutalisks should "leech", ie. gain life for every Glaive wurm + splash that hits an enemy unit/strucutre.
That way it rewards the player for being active and attacking/harassing by healing them. If you can splash 3 units, than that procs the leech 3 times. The passive regen is nice but I think it can be better
There are pheonix which with the +2 range buff can deal with mutas no problem...are u sure you are kidding about using tempest vs mutas?
well you know Mutas pop out like 10 at a time while phxs dont. Also it the +2 range requires a Fleet Beacon. So getting to that tech path in 2 base then Zerg tech switching to roaches so easily.
The phoenix got range buff in the last patch. Now they outrange mutas pretty badly even without the Fleet beacon upgrade. Add to that the superior speed of the phoenix and you dont actually need to build 10 phoenixes at a time... 3 phoenixes can easily beat 10 mutas no problem. Also voidrays now melt roaches like nothing and you have mothership core... It's not very likely to be overwhelmed with roaches in HotS.
T upgrades going weeeirdoo. Combined upgrades was OP but well. This doesnt make any sense. Thinking they should try keeping all 4 mech upgrades but tweaking their costs and times. potentially creating too powerful tank or thor timings though, i dunno
muta buff is fucking weird too. and i don't like weird.
won't the tempest be horribly, horribly op now? They're really easy to get and totally negates BC/colossus/BL play, right? doesn't seem ok
There are pheonix which with the +2 range buff can deal with mutas no problem...are u sure you are kidding about using tempest vs mutas?
well you know Mutas pop out like 10 at a time while phxs dont. Also it the +2 range requires a Fleet Beacon. So getting to that tech path in 2 base then Zerg tech switching to roaches so easily.
The phoenix got range buff in the last patch. Now they outrange mutas pretty badly even without the Fleet beacon upgrade. Add to that the superior speed of the phoenix and you dont actually need to build 10 phoenixes at a time... 3 phoenixes can easily beat 10 mutas no problem. Also voidrays now melt roaches like nothing and you have mothership core... It's not very likely to be overwhelmed with roaches in HotS.
Okay. I'll try to play more games to try this. Thanks for the input ^^
On December 13 2012 07:38 SarcasmMonster wrote: I love balance patches <3
Edit: Mutalisks should "leech", ie. gain life for every Glaive wurm + splash that hits an enemy unit/strucutre.
That way it rewards the player for being active and attacking/harassing by healing them. If you can splash 3 units, than that procs the leech 3 times. The passive regen is nice but I think it can be better
Did you drink from the toilet this morning?
The idea is actually okay, because it would justify the odd bouncing attack that Mutas have.
On December 13 2012 18:09 TheBloodyDwarf wrote: Do you enjoy more PvP colo vs colo or PvP Tempest vs Tempest....
What the fuck is this? In wol we have colo vs colo, now we have tempest vs tempest, this is just going worse..
wouldn't Tempests be countered very hard by the other air units (minus Carrier)? I mean, if both open Stargate, you should go phoenix. Or Voids, but never Tempest. At least that's how it sounds to me
I think Blizz just went the wrong way with this "Protoss air must be viable no matter what".. It makes so many problems in all matchups. Remove the fucking Tempest already from the game, we have carriers, oracles, void rays, phoenixes, great.. No let's finally fix Protoss ground.
edit: see the most exiting matchup is TvZ where no Broodlord/Infestor is included.. Nobody wants to just sit and mass air units. :-(
I think the Oracle should have an upgrade in the Fleet Beacon that makes it regenerate energy faster....
I feel like i can harrass for like 5 seconds they move scvs out of the way, then i attack supply depots for 1 second and no more energy for like 5 minutes... Oracles are completely useless without energy, much like a lot of other units, yes, but i just feel like it doesnt have enough energy...
EPT
player for being active and attacking/harassing by healing them. If you can splash 3 units, than that procs the leech 3 times. The passive regen is nice but I think it can be better 
