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Beta Balance Update #9 - Page 21

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 HotS
824 CommentsPost a Reply
Prev 1 19 20 21 22 23 42 Next All
aksfjh
Profile Joined November 2010
United States4853 Posts
December 13 2012 07:21 GMT
#401
I think Blizzard officially gives up with mech with this patch. Thanks.
eviltomahawk
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States11135 Posts
December 13 2012 07:22 GMT
#402
On December 13 2012 15:48 s3rp wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 13 2012 15:36 Asturas wrote:
oh my...
SC2 is becoming Brood War, in this meaning that it is now collection of OP units. Same as in BW - you know: BW's Tanks, HTs and so on. In HOTS: Medivacs, Reapers, Mutas, Tempests(?)
I don't know if I like it, but man... pro games, tournaments, this is going to be interesting.

One more thing. Long time ago Blizzard nerfed Hellions because they were OP in... TvT. Even before that they nerfed Reapers, coz of OP in TvZ. In HOTS new Reapers are definitely too powerful in TvT. They don't seem to be a problem in other matchups, but they cause same problem in TvT as Hellions caused long time ago. I wonder when they are going to be changed.


Reapers makes TvT a bit wierd but it doesn't neccesarly break the matchup. Yeah Gasless openings are extremely hard to pull off ( but not impossible if you're careful ) but other than that i think it's fine . You can allways build a few Reaper yourself and put them in a bunker ( watching other reapers get torn apart by a reaper bunker is hillarious , almost as fun as watching a horde of zerglings get destroyed by 4 reapers in a bunker and your opponent scream imba ^^ ) or get a marauder or fasttech to widow mines.

I imagine that Reapers will get nerfed sometime later in the beta. According to developer posts on B.net, they purposely made the Reaper OP to see their full potential before dialing back their power for balance purposes. If Reapers aren't actually OP right now despite all their buffs, then that would be rather interesting.
ㅇㅅㅌㅅ
mannerless
Profile Joined May 2010
Brazil86 Posts
December 13 2012 07:22 GMT
#403
On December 13 2012 16:17 Graphix wrote:
i dont understand the reason for buffing mutalisks and buffing widow mines the patch previous. widow mines destroy mutas in zvt


Yeah, they destroy 1 muta and the rest can wreak havoc the mineral line anyway...and now they can also heal up the splash done by the mine before it shoots again.
lurking the forums since 2003
arcane1129
Profile Joined January 2011
United States273 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-12-13 07:27:46
December 13 2012 07:26 GMT
#404
Bio based compositions are insane in zvt. Drops are faster, healing bio is better (lings worse), reaper openings are better, widow mines wreck mutas if they aren't super careful (meaning just the threat of mines tones down harass and they have to bring an overseer which is sooo much slower than mutas or they have to be constantly split which destroys muta harass dps), hellbats are immortal vs lings, and infestors are nearly useless....and with mutas being risky and infestors being terrible, drops are even better just because they're much harder to shut down.

Yeah ultras are better vs marines but it's still a million times better for bio centric stuff now. I'm actually considering opening ling/bane/hydra into either vipers or ultras depending on tank count.
A Wild Sosd
Profile Joined September 2012
Australia421 Posts
December 13 2012 07:27 GMT
#405
Mutas are looking to be really good.
Bomber | TaeJa | Life | Scarlett I Twitter: @SosdSC2
Asturas
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Finland587 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-12-13 07:29:29
December 13 2012 07:28 GMT
#406
On December 13 2012 16:21 aksfjh wrote:
I think Blizzard officially gives up with mech with this patch. Thanks.


I think so too. Mech in TvZ became almost impossible because of Swarm Hosts and in TvP is still impossible, because most P units are "designed" to be good vs Mech. Pity. I love Mech.
There are no boundaries, that's the final conclusion.
s3rp
Profile Joined May 2011
Germany3192 Posts
December 13 2012 07:29 GMT
#407
On December 13 2012 16:22 eviltomahawk wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 13 2012 15:48 s3rp wrote:
On December 13 2012 15:36 Asturas wrote:
oh my...
SC2 is becoming Brood War, in this meaning that it is now collection of OP units. Same as in BW - you know: BW's Tanks, HTs and so on. In HOTS: Medivacs, Reapers, Mutas, Tempests(?)
I don't know if I like it, but man... pro games, tournaments, this is going to be interesting.

One more thing. Long time ago Blizzard nerfed Hellions because they were OP in... TvT. Even before that they nerfed Reapers, coz of OP in TvZ. In HOTS new Reapers are definitely too powerful in TvT. They don't seem to be a problem in other matchups, but they cause same problem in TvT as Hellions caused long time ago. I wonder when they are going to be changed.


Reapers makes TvT a bit wierd but it doesn't neccesarly break the matchup. Yeah Gasless openings are extremely hard to pull off ( but not impossible if you're careful ) but other than that i think it's fine . You can allways build a few Reaper yourself and put them in a bunker ( watching other reapers get torn apart by a reaper bunker is hillarious , almost as fun as watching a horde of zerglings get destroyed by 4 reapers in a bunker and your opponent scream imba ^^ ) or get a marauder or fasttech to widow mines.

I imagine that Reapers will get nerfed sometime later in the beta. According to developer posts on B.net, they purposely made the Reaper OP to see their full potential before dialing back their power for balance purposes. If Reapers aren't actually OP right now despite all their buffs, then that would be rather interesting.


They still aren't very good against Protoss . A smart toss will just skip the Zealot if he scouts you going Reaper so you're not going to archive anything with them. I tried Ebayblocking as a response but with mixed results. I TvZ they are nice but def. not OP not even close . TvT is the only thing where they're dicey because they own marines so hard and a gasless Terran doesn't have anything else.
WeaponX.7
Profile Joined June 2011
Canada52 Posts
December 13 2012 07:33 GMT
#408
Id like point out that muta openings are going to be insanely effective against mech now because of how awful thors are against them already and now they will just heal the splash dmg much more quickly.
Grrr... = first bonjwa
herMan
Profile Joined November 2010
Japan2057 Posts
December 13 2012 07:42 GMT
#409
On December 13 2012 16:33 WeaponX.7 wrote:
Id like point out that muta openings are going to be insanely effective against mech now because of how awful thors are against them already and now they will just heal the splash dmg much more quickly.


Maybe in hots you can go mech with mines to defend, they're aoe right?

I love the muta change since they make TvZ so much more exciting and they really are a core unit in the game.
winsonsonho
Profile Joined October 2012
Korea (South)143 Posts
December 13 2012 07:43 GMT
#410
On December 13 2012 16:22 eviltomahawk wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 13 2012 15:48 s3rp wrote:
On December 13 2012 15:36 Asturas wrote:
oh my...
SC2 is becoming Brood War, in this meaning that it is now collection of OP units. Same as in BW - you know: BW's Tanks, HTs and so on. In HOTS: Medivacs, Reapers, Mutas, Tempests(?)
I don't know if I like it, but man... pro games, tournaments, this is going to be interesting.

One more thing. Long time ago Blizzard nerfed Hellions because they were OP in... TvT. Even before that they nerfed Reapers, coz of OP in TvZ. In HOTS new Reapers are definitely too powerful in TvT. They don't seem to be a problem in other matchups, but they cause same problem in TvT as Hellions caused long time ago. I wonder when they are going to be changed.


Reapers makes TvT a bit wierd but it doesn't neccesarly break the matchup. Yeah Gasless openings are extremely hard to pull off ( but not impossible if you're careful ) but other than that i think it's fine . You can allways build a few Reaper yourself and put them in a bunker ( watching other reapers get torn apart by a reaper bunker is hillarious , almost as fun as watching a horde of zerglings get destroyed by 4 reapers in a bunker and your opponent scream imba ^^ ) or get a marauder or fasttech to widow mines.

I imagine that Reapers will get nerfed sometime later in the beta. According to developer posts on B.net, they purposely made the Reaper OP to see their full potential before dialing back their power for balance purposes. If Reapers aren't actually OP right now despite all their buffs, then that would be rather interesting.


Surly the problem is that it is overshadowed by another unit? Don't Terran already have a fast anti-light herassing unit, I can't seem to remember ㅠㅠ ? Seriously though, why have two units that totally overlap? They can't keep buffing and nerfing and adding abilities. It needs another kind of change IMO. Maybe make it a less anti-light unit and give it back its' building attack (It could then be a ground mutalisk that can't attack air ^^).
a176
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
Canada6688 Posts
December 13 2012 07:46 GMT
#411
On December 13 2012 16:42 herMan wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 13 2012 16:33 WeaponX.7 wrote:
Id like point out that muta openings are going to be insanely effective against mech now because of how awful thors are against them already and now they will just heal the splash dmg much more quickly.


Maybe in hots you can go mech with mines to defend, they're aoe right?

I love the muta change since they make TvZ so much more exciting and they really are a core unit in the game.


have mines sitting in my base and expos taking up 10, 20 supply doing nothing :\
starleague forever
iKill
Profile Blog Joined May 2011
Denmark861 Posts
December 13 2012 07:50 GMT
#412
Look guys, the tempest change is not a buff. The way I'm reading it, Tempests' air weapon was unintentionally reduced to 30 with the last patch, and they've fixed it so it actually does more damage than the ground weapon now.

That would explain why I got raped by a colossus-stalker player with stalker-tempest-immortal yesterday, lol.
thepuppyassassin: "My god... the deathball's grown wings!"
Fragile51
Profile Joined October 2011
Netherlands15767 Posts
December 13 2012 07:50 GMT
#413
On December 13 2012 16:46 a176 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 13 2012 16:42 herMan wrote:
On December 13 2012 16:33 WeaponX.7 wrote:
Id like point out that muta openings are going to be insanely effective against mech now because of how awful thors are against them already and now they will just heal the splash dmg much more quickly.


Maybe in hots you can go mech with mines to defend, they're aoe right?

I love the muta change since they make TvZ so much more exciting and they really are a core unit in the game.


have mines sitting in my base and expos taking up 10, 20 supply doing nothing :\


Having 10-20 supply defending your bases lategame isn't that big of an anomaly, last time i checked.. And i'm pretty sure widow mines are more cost effective than most things defending bases.
killy666
Profile Joined July 2012
France204 Posts
December 13 2012 07:52 GMT
#414
Or you could build turrets? I don't wanna sound rude, but turrets are used in WoL against mutas, as anyone tested how they are faring against the HoTS Mutas?
My life is sicker than your band
Crawdad
Profile Joined September 2012
614 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-12-13 07:56:43
December 13 2012 07:55 GMT
#415
LOL, mech worthless because the weapon upgrades were separated again...

Was the last patch not enough?
shin_toss
Profile Joined May 2010
Philippines2589 Posts
December 13 2012 07:57 GMT
#416
Mutas so hard to deal with as protoss now. I just got killed by an opponent who massed muta. Tho tempest are okay to deal with mutas, its still so hard to take a 3rd base.
AKMU / IU
BigRedDog
Profile Joined May 2012
461 Posts
December 13 2012 08:01 GMT
#417
There are pheonix which with the +2 range buff can deal with mutas no problem...are u sure you are kidding about using tempest vs mutas?


On December 13 2012 16:57 shin_toss wrote:
Mutas so hard to deal with as protoss now. I just got killed by an opponent who massed muta. Tho tempest are okay to deal with mutas, its still so hard to take a 3rd base.

Big Red Dog!
SuperYo1000
Profile Joined July 2008
United States880 Posts
December 13 2012 08:05 GMT
#418
On December 13 2012 14:50 arcane1129 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 13 2012 14:33 SuperYo1000 wrote:
muta buff?....

Can we have tempest shoot archons then?


No but you can have +1 range phoenix with a +2 range upgrade



I was actually joking but ya....protoss crying should try a 7 range pheonix....having over double the range of mutas makes micro sooooo easy. 6 pheonix 1 shot mutas and at 7 range its really hard to die and since stargate is far more viable verse zerg you can handle a tech switch until you can respond correctly
Hattori_Hanzo
Profile Joined October 2010
Singapore1229 Posts
December 13 2012 08:13 GMT
#419
On December 13 2012 13:49 ZjiublingZ wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 13 2012 13:46 Hattori_Hanzo wrote:
On December 13 2012 08:50 Xanbatou wrote:
why the fuck would they reduce widow mine attack priority?


Because mass widow mines atm are being used as meat shields in the late game.

This is a buff/nerf.
Buff because late game widow mines can now "safely" reposition in combat with drilling claws. An enemy has to individually target them down.
Nerf because late game, widow mines cannot be used to "tank" for marines by walking in front of them. They have close to double the HP of a marine.


lol why would you not use a Hellion in that situation, if you wanted to use anything? I don't see how this was ever a legitimate concern, having a more expensive, slower to build, higher supply unit tanking for Marines with Medivacs. Why would you not just use more Marines?



Because 12 hellions does not do 480 splash damage when burrowed or kill 12x 160hp units (excluding splash).

ATM 6 ultralisks and 50 lings can roflstomp thor/hellion of equal supply, not if its 6 thors + 12 drill mines.
Patch #9 makes drill mine/marine/medivac mid-game deathball very dangerous, since enemy's attack will hit the marine FIRST giving time for the drill mines to burrow. See Avlio's use of drill mines, from 10m mark:

Cauterize the area
BlacKcuD
Profile Joined October 2010
Germany107 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-12-13 08:30:30
December 13 2012 08:14 GMT
#420
So it´s 5 upgrades for every race. Kinda boring but easier to balance that way I guess.
Avid map maker and e-sport enthusiast.
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