Pretty Solid reasoning and it's great to hear they don't really want to tone anything down.
This is one of the best things they've said.
Infestor
For Heart of the Swarm, we want to push players to mass units like Hydralisks, Mutalisks, Swarm Hosts, or Ultralisks, rather than the Infestor. As such, we’ve heavily nerfed the Infestor to make it less core to the Zerg army.
did you know that opening dts wont be such a tech set back now? (also mines not detecting cloaked is a buff for protoss)
lategame protoss?
carriers awesome now, timebomb+storm is devastating.
void ray change is much better, the have a flat damage with bonus to armored and there ability is MORE damage to armored.
I'm more concerned with the loss of vortex as a way to deal with zerg deathballs.
fair enough but heavy infestor nerfs dont calm you at all? Also in the balance thoughts they mention that if they need to buff tempest even more to fight broodlords they will
On December 06 2012 23:35 Musicus wrote: So now, if I can survive Mech and barely get my unupgraded broodlords out in time, by the time I want to counter push I will be greeted by 3-3 vikings? This change is so insane, still happy that they change things withour fear though, but a lot will be undone.
Yes you might just have to pressure in the mid-game to slow down the Mech army *gasp*
Yes, and Terran might just have to sit back and turtle till they're maxed on their ideal composition with full upgrades. Now it's gonna be the Zerg who has to somehow cripple Terran in the early-midgame.
Hurray for Blizzard just flipping the problem around instead of really fixing things. :D
Oh my god, get over it finally, you are no more fucking allowed to sit back and than 1a your Broodlords/Infestors.. THIS IS A GOOD THING, period. Go figure out how to slow terran down. Jesus those patchzergs..
You do realize you're being a total hypocrite by being okay with it just because the situation is flipped? Now zerg can't just sit back and 1a; that's the terran's job. That was the point of the previous posters. The situation then isn't improved overall if the dynamics didn't change, only flip.
Can you please tell me how exactly is it flipped? What is the composition for Terran he is going for on 3 bases while Zerg takes whole map and then Terran just kills everything while floating cc with army?
That sounds like the slowest base trading ever as the slow broodlord army trudges along avoiding a slower terran army dragging a floating cc around.
But I was entirely going with the scope from the previous posts. One poster argues that the pvz matchup flips with terran turtling while zerg being required to slow terran down versus terran right now needing to slow/kill zerg before end game composition. Limited to only this information, the response was hypocritical in nature because nothing was improved. I could hardly know how this would work out in reality since I don't play the beta.
Who will be building Broodlords in HotS? You get Ultralisks and Vipers instead ... grab the Siege Tanks and have Ultralisks trample them and then maul any bio forces around the Ultra with the splash from 35 damage against everything. Lots of Queens in the background provide AA and healing for the Ultralisk and you are done with the new ultimate Zerg army. Maybe an Infestor or two for Fungals to control pesky bio or medivacs, but thats basically it.
You are kidding right? The same slow WoL Ultras that get raped by stimmed Marauders and even enough stimmed marines?! What is the point of extra damage when they still cannot reach targets in time to be useful?!
Maybe Zerg learn to pull their Ultras with Vipers into the Marines instead? Marauders cant shoot air and if the Marines rather shoot the Vipers instead ...
Are you insanely retarded? So we have marines to the left, and ultra viper to the right okay? So what we want to do is yank our ultras into the marines. Okay, so first we move our vipers towards the mar..... DEAD.
Well that went spiffingly. Please suggest another marvelous idea.
did you know that opening dts wont be such a tech set back now? (also mines not detecting cloaked is a buff for protoss)
lategame protoss?
carriers awesome now, timebomb+storm is devastating.
void ray change is much better, the have a flat damage with bonus to armored and there ability is MORE damage to armored.
I'm more concerned with the loss of vortex as a way to deal with zerg deathballs.
fair enough but heavy infestor nerfs dont calm you at all? Also in the balance thoughts they mention that if they need to buff tempest even more to fight broodlords they will
I'm sure they will sort it all out in the end, I trust blizzard, but I have never been a fan of massive changes to well established and popular abilities. I'm interested to see how this all pans out though, this is the most interesting patch (in terms of content) in a ling time.
On December 07 2012 00:27 ZjiublingZ wrote: [quote]
Yes you might just have to pressure in the mid-game to slow down the Mech army *gasp*
Yes, and Terran might just have to sit back and turtle till they're maxed on their ideal composition with full upgrades. Now it's gonna be the Zerg who has to somehow cripple Terran in the early-midgame.
Hurray for Blizzard just flipping the problem around instead of really fixing things. :D
Oh my god, get over it finally, you are no more fucking allowed to sit back and than 1a your Broodlords/Infestors.. THIS IS A GOOD THING, period. Go figure out how to slow terran down. Jesus those patchzergs..
You do realize you're being a total hypocrite by being okay with it just because the situation is flipped? Now zerg can't just sit back and 1a; that's the terran's job. That was the point of the previous posters. The situation then isn't improved overall if the dynamics didn't change, only flip.
Can you please tell me how exactly is it flipped? What is the composition for Terran he is going for on 3 bases while Zerg takes whole map and then Terran just kills everything while floating cc with army?
That sounds like the slowest base trading ever as the slow broodlord army trudges along avoiding a slower terran army dragging a floating cc around.
But I was entirely going with the scope from the previous posts. One poster argues that the pvz matchup flips with terran turtling while zerg being required to slow terran down versus terran right now needing to slow/kill zerg before end game composition. Limited to only this information, the response was hypocritical in nature because nothing was improved. I could hardly know how this would work out in reality since I don't play the beta.
Who will be building Broodlords in HotS? You get Ultralisks and Vipers instead ... grab the Siege Tanks and have Ultralisks trample them and then maul any bio forces around the Ultra with the splash from 35 damage against everything. Lots of Queens in the background provide AA and healing for the Ultralisk and you are done with the new ultimate Zerg army. Maybe an Infestor or two for Fungals to control pesky bio or medivacs, but thats basically it.
You are kidding right? The same slow WoL Ultras that get raped by stimmed Marauders and even enough stimmed marines?! What is the point of extra damage when they still cannot reach targets in time to be useful?!
Maybe Zerg learn to pull their Ultras with Vipers into the Marines instead? Marauders cant shoot air and if the Marines rather shoot the Vipers instead ...
Are you insanely retarded? So we have marines to the left, and ultra viper to the right okay? So what we want to do is yank our ultras into the marines. Okay, so first we move our vipers towards the mar..... DEAD.
Well that went spiffingly. Please suggest another marvelous idea.
How about you grip an ultra or two into the production line from the ledge while the fight goes on?
On December 07 2012 00:27 ZjiublingZ wrote: [quote]
Yes you might just have to pressure in the mid-game to slow down the Mech army *gasp*
Yes, and Terran might just have to sit back and turtle till they're maxed on their ideal composition with full upgrades. Now it's gonna be the Zerg who has to somehow cripple Terran in the early-midgame.
Hurray for Blizzard just flipping the problem around instead of really fixing things. :D
Oh my god, get over it finally, you are no more fucking allowed to sit back and than 1a your Broodlords/Infestors.. THIS IS A GOOD THING, period. Go figure out how to slow terran down. Jesus those patchzergs..
You do realize you're being a total hypocrite by being okay with it just because the situation is flipped? Now zerg can't just sit back and 1a; that's the terran's job. That was the point of the previous posters. The situation then isn't improved overall if the dynamics didn't change, only flip.
Can you please tell me how exactly is it flipped? What is the composition for Terran he is going for on 3 bases while Zerg takes whole map and then Terran just kills everything while floating cc with army?
That sounds like the slowest base trading ever as the slow broodlord army trudges along avoiding a slower terran army dragging a floating cc around.
But I was entirely going with the scope from the previous posts. One poster argues that the pvz matchup flips with terran turtling while zerg being required to slow terran down versus terran right now needing to slow/kill zerg before end game composition. Limited to only this information, the response was hypocritical in nature because nothing was improved. I could hardly know how this would work out in reality since I don't play the beta.
Who will be building Broodlords in HotS? You get Ultralisks and Vipers instead ... grab the Siege Tanks and have Ultralisks trample them and then maul any bio forces around the Ultra with the splash from 35 damage against everything. Lots of Queens in the background provide AA and healing for the Ultralisk and you are done with the new ultimate Zerg army. Maybe an Infestor or two for Fungals to control pesky bio or medivacs, but thats basically it.
You are kidding right? The same slow WoL Ultras that get raped by stimmed Marauders and even enough stimmed marines?! What is the point of extra damage when they still cannot reach targets in time to be useful?!
Maybe Zerg learn to pull their Ultras with Vipers into the Marines instead? Marauders cant shoot air and if the Marines rather shoot the Vipers instead ...
Are you insanely retarded? So we have marines to the left, and ultra viper to the right okay? So what we want to do is yank our ultras into the marines. Okay, so first we move our vipers towards the mar..... DEAD.
Well that went spiffingly. Please suggest another marvelous idea.
Or you could use the viper ability that debuffs all ranged units in the AOE and then charge in with utras and lings? You know, like they did in BW and it was bad ass.
On December 07 2012 03:00 ZjiublingZ wrote: 1 Void Rays now beats 2 Corruptors...
I really hope we don't see mass Void Rays vs Zerg. Well, Hydras should discourage that better, and Fungal should be good. Still, scary!
Doubtful, there is enough zerg stuff to kill them and they are so slow that it would be easy to hit them with fungle. I am just glad we have an air unit that can beat Corruptors in a straight up fight.
Yes, and Terran might just have to sit back and turtle till they're maxed on their ideal composition with full upgrades. Now it's gonna be the Zerg who has to somehow cripple Terran in the early-midgame.
Hurray for Blizzard just flipping the problem around instead of really fixing things. :D
Oh my god, get over it finally, you are no more fucking allowed to sit back and than 1a your Broodlords/Infestors.. THIS IS A GOOD THING, period. Go figure out how to slow terran down. Jesus those patchzergs..
You do realize you're being a total hypocrite by being okay with it just because the situation is flipped? Now zerg can't just sit back and 1a; that's the terran's job. That was the point of the previous posters. The situation then isn't improved overall if the dynamics didn't change, only flip.
Can you please tell me how exactly is it flipped? What is the composition for Terran he is going for on 3 bases while Zerg takes whole map and then Terran just kills everything while floating cc with army?
That sounds like the slowest base trading ever as the slow broodlord army trudges along avoiding a slower terran army dragging a floating cc around.
But I was entirely going with the scope from the previous posts. One poster argues that the pvz matchup flips with terran turtling while zerg being required to slow terran down versus terran right now needing to slow/kill zerg before end game composition. Limited to only this information, the response was hypocritical in nature because nothing was improved. I could hardly know how this would work out in reality since I don't play the beta.
Who will be building Broodlords in HotS? You get Ultralisks and Vipers instead ... grab the Siege Tanks and have Ultralisks trample them and then maul any bio forces around the Ultra with the splash from 35 damage against everything. Lots of Queens in the background provide AA and healing for the Ultralisk and you are done with the new ultimate Zerg army. Maybe an Infestor or two for Fungals to control pesky bio or medivacs, but thats basically it.
You are kidding right? The same slow WoL Ultras that get raped by stimmed Marauders and even enough stimmed marines?! What is the point of extra damage when they still cannot reach targets in time to be useful?!
Maybe Zerg learn to pull their Ultras with Vipers into the Marines instead? Marauders cant shoot air and if the Marines rather shoot the Vipers instead ...
Are you insanely retarded? So we have marines to the left, and ultra viper to the right okay? So what we want to do is yank our ultras into the marines. Okay, so first we move our vipers towards the mar..... DEAD.
Well that went spiffingly. Please suggest another marvelous idea.
Or you could use the viper ability that debuffs all ranged units in the AOE and then charge in with utras and lings? You know, like they did in BW and it was bad ass.
Of course you could, and then they move out of it and kill the Vipers. sure use infestors too, you won't get EVERY marine, and several can snipe a Viper in less than a second.
Yes, and Terran might just have to sit back and turtle till they're maxed on their ideal composition with full upgrades. Now it's gonna be the Zerg who has to somehow cripple Terran in the early-midgame.
Hurray for Blizzard just flipping the problem around instead of really fixing things. :D
Oh my god, get over it finally, you are no more fucking allowed to sit back and than 1a your Broodlords/Infestors.. THIS IS A GOOD THING, period. Go figure out how to slow terran down. Jesus those patchzergs..
You do realize you're being a total hypocrite by being okay with it just because the situation is flipped? Now zerg can't just sit back and 1a; that's the terran's job. That was the point of the previous posters. The situation then isn't improved overall if the dynamics didn't change, only flip.
Can you please tell me how exactly is it flipped? What is the composition for Terran he is going for on 3 bases while Zerg takes whole map and then Terran just kills everything while floating cc with army?
That sounds like the slowest base trading ever as the slow broodlord army trudges along avoiding a slower terran army dragging a floating cc around.
But I was entirely going with the scope from the previous posts. One poster argues that the pvz matchup flips with terran turtling while zerg being required to slow terran down versus terran right now needing to slow/kill zerg before end game composition. Limited to only this information, the response was hypocritical in nature because nothing was improved. I could hardly know how this would work out in reality since I don't play the beta.
Who will be building Broodlords in HotS? You get Ultralisks and Vipers instead ... grab the Siege Tanks and have Ultralisks trample them and then maul any bio forces around the Ultra with the splash from 35 damage against everything. Lots of Queens in the background provide AA and healing for the Ultralisk and you are done with the new ultimate Zerg army. Maybe an Infestor or two for Fungals to control pesky bio or medivacs, but thats basically it.
You are kidding right? The same slow WoL Ultras that get raped by stimmed Marauders and even enough stimmed marines?! What is the point of extra damage when they still cannot reach targets in time to be useful?!
Maybe Zerg learn to pull their Ultras with Vipers into the Marines instead? Marauders cant shoot air and if the Marines rather shoot the Vipers instead ...
Are you insanely retarded? So we have marines to the left, and ultra viper to the right okay? So what we want to do is yank our ultras into the marines. Okay, so first we move our vipers towards the mar..... DEAD.
Well that went spiffingly. Please suggest another marvelous idea.
How about you grip an ultra or two into the production line from the ledge while the fight goes on?
While pushing into a Terran natural on Howling Peaks, I yanked 6-7 Ultras up into his main, RIGHT in his production buildings. That's pretty strong. I'm so glad abduct affects friendly units. Makes the ability less one dimensional.
Vortex has received a massive nerf with this patch. We don’t really like seeing Motherships in every PvZ game because the results are always all or nothing. You Vortex perfectly and win, or Vortex fails and you lose. We feel that it’s not a good thing for a single ability to have such a huge impact on the game.
We want other units, such as the Tempest, to take the place of the Mothership when combating Brood Lord and Infestor compositions. If necessary, Tempests can be buffed against Massive units to make this possible.
They're definitely following the competitive scene.
EPT
