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People understand there are new things that rape bio, ultra now deals 35damage to marine per hit up from 15, then blinding cloud makes bio 1range, then buffed hidras, then new protoss slow spell coupled with storm. Blizzard wants bio be viable and not just die to any higher tech unit. There way? buff bio survivabilty and mobility. As bio already deals crazy amount of dps.
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The most important question is:
Can the Mothership cast Vortex on itself?
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Wow, a patch in which everything is simply buffed! T's got the better end of the deal, but the ultralisk is a significant change for ZvT I think.
The medivac buff seems a bit OP, though. I'd have to see, but marines will probably stronger than ever.
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On December 06 2012 19:24 hugman wrote:
The most important question is:
Can the Mothership cast Vortex on itself?
No. It doesn't affect massive units, and this Mother is quite massive.
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On December 06 2012 19:24 opterown wrote:
ahahaha, vortex
This is hilarious, but it's a little too silly for me. Just give the Mothership a 200-energy spell that can potentially have an effect on the game, but probably won't because of its absurd cost.
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On December 06 2012 19:23 one-one-one wrote:Show nested quote +On December 06 2012 19:11 Pursuit_ wrote:On December 06 2012 18:59 one-one-one wrote:On December 06 2012 18:43 Pursuit_ wrote:
As a Terran, here are my initial thoughts.
The new Medivac is hilariously OP, I can't see it staying as it is atm. Otherwise core Terran issues aren't really addressed, although I think these buffs will make Terran Bio OP vZ and vP and we wont even get to see late game TvT thanks to the reaper buff. New Seeker Missile sucks if it got rid of splash and is pretty nice if it didn't, though it overlaps with Yamato a lot, Thor change is basically useless. I'm not really sure how Vehicle and Air upgrades being the same will work out, tbh I feel like this change will make Mech too strong since it really smooths out the transition into air but we'll have to see.
New Oracle looks a lot like a Pheonix with worse air-to-air but better air to ground and an AoE slow. Protoss changes in general are rather uninspiring. Vortex change is confusing, kills a single target instantly but can't hit massive? Seems kinda useless?
Zerg changes all look really good, would have like to see the Hydra supply reduced to 1 though, it still needs a bit of a buff IMO. Muta and Swarm Host changes are excellent however, Ultralisk just got a huge buff vs light ground but we'll have to see if that actually makes any difference.
Edit: New Dark Shrine + 7 Range Pheonix make Pheo / DT viable for PvZ yet? As a Terran I have to say you are seriously misguided. You seem stuck in a WoL mindset where mech TvP is a no-no and there are no such thing as blinding cloud time warp and such. I advise you to think things through again. Medivac heal ability might make marauders a bit too good yes, but that is it. It wont come in to play until the lategame because most players will probably still prefer to get reactored medivacs as soon as possible. As speed bonus goes it is a nice way to get away from fungal and templars with feedback. Now you actually have a chance to get out of range by using the speed boost making drops more viable throughout the game which rewards players with good mechanics. A very good thing imo. Thor changes are not useless. You gotta be trolling me. Just the fact that 250mm is gone together with the retarded energy bar makes it viable vs protoss again. Also, its dps/area has increased since the model and collission radius is smaller meaning you can fit more thors into the same area. The new single target anti air mode might be a bit useless in its current state though. I would like it to have a way higher dps given that thors are 6 supply... I agree that seeker missile overlaps with yamatoo, but its 10 range makes it outrange feedback. Ravens will now have a natural role to fill in TvP to snipe Tempests , colossus , immortals, archons and other "OP" units making it hard for a mech player. If I understand it correctly you can employ hit-and-run tacticts from range 10 by queing up a move command in the opposite direction of the target after aiming a seeker missile at it. And it will also be possible to cover the ground with 13 range siege tanks to cover ravens from high templars. A solid change imo. It overlaps with yamatoo too much, I agree. Yamatoo should do splash damage and less single target damage to compensate. This would make it an awesome T3 unit. I actually play Mech in both WoL (~50% of the time) and HotS in TvP, for reference. I don't think you really understand how substantial the medivac change is, this upgrade increases the healing power of each individual medivac to 5/3 what it was in WoL, basically nearly doubling it. It actually becomes cost effective to get the upgrade if you plan on having more than 4 Medivacs (since 3 Medivacs with the upgrade now heal as much as 5 would otherwise). I was more thinking of TvZ with this change, I just cant see Zerg doing damage fast enough to kill units with such a massive healing bonus. I actually wasn't thinking about the energy removal, that is a pretty significant buff in TvP (although I NEVER use Thors in TvP at the moment, I prefer to go hellion / tank / viking into sky terran), but the radius is an INCREASE in radius, not a decrease. As in bigger. Reducing DPS / area. Problem with 10 range seeker missile is if you use it at 10 range they have 3 full seconds to move it out of range where it becomes useless. So you still have to get in closer to guarantee damage. On December 06 2012 19:02 Bagi wrote:On December 06 2012 18:56 Pursuit_ wrote:On December 06 2012 18:48 Crawdad wrote:On December 06 2012 18:43 Pursuit_ wrote:Thor change is basically useless. Are you high? As many before me have shown, the single target DPS is only slightly stronger than the AoE version with something like +2 to 9 damage depending on upgrades. In exchange for losing the splash, I think the overall DPS vs most compositions is actually lower. Only vs well split Brood Lords (something most Zergs don't bother to do vT atm anyway) or Battlecruisers is the Thor change a substantial difference. Is it confirmed that the new AA attack has the same attack speed as the old one? Good point, if the attack speed is considerably faster then this would be a really strong buff for mech, perhaps too strong vZ  Medivac heal rate matters very little vs banelings. It is an indirect nerf vs fungal which is a good thing. I think it is a promising change since mass splash damage like fungal, colossus and storm is reduced in strength indirectly. All three races can pretty much hard counter bio by getting enough templars, colossus, fungals ,banelings or tanks. This change makes bio armies last slightly longer which might reduce the likelyhood of the opponent going for a no rush 20 minute game. I'd rather see them remove fungal root though, but this is the next best thing.
You can very easily split vs banelings though. And bio has been proven to work vZ and vP already in late game (especially vP), so such a huge increase in healing ability feels like it will be OP in my opinion. Also, thanks for not being as arrogant in this post
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Oh wow editor works so you can test all units and see how they works..
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6 air units for protoss just seem too much, overlapping in roles
Mothership: useless gimmick unit
Carrier: endgame capital ship
Tempest: Long range late game, forces engagements
Voidray: midgame, huge dps to armored
Oracle: harasser, good vs light
phoenix: harasser, antiair
would rather have them remove mothership and one of the other air units and focus more on protoss ground
blizzard especially seems to have a hard time finding a role for the oracle, every patch basically had a redesign of the unit, it does seem to overlap with the phoenix somehow
maybe it works out in the end, but atm stargate tech seems a little bloated and redundant
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Very nice changes, I would love to play it^^
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This is what happens when Daddy finally says 'fuck it' and just buys the god-damn pony.
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So.....Protoss loses Vortex and ALL of its inherent air-based anti-massive ground capability whilst buffing the hell out of the Ultralisk damage output.
Mass Immortal/Archon, anyone? Or...no just that.
Can't help but feel the Void Ray is going to remain a fairly poor choice.
Terran changes mostly good but I feel the Medivac is going to require a heavy nerf in the near future. Insanely huge buff, especially to Terran drop capability which was already pretty good. Its also going to be extremely strong vs the AoE that Protoss has always absolutely HAD to rely on to avoid being overwhelmed by Marines and Marauders.
Infestor nerfs. At last!
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Russian Federation4295 Posts
On December 06 2012 19:27 Everlong wrote:
Oh wow editor works so you can test all units and see how they works..
It's not works for me, gives error
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Netherlands75 Posts
is this patch live in EU?
If so is 2v2 available and is the clan spam fixed?
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On December 06 2012 19:26 Pursuit_ wrote:Show nested quote +On December 06 2012 19:23 one-one-one wrote:On December 06 2012 19:11 Pursuit_ wrote:On December 06 2012 18:59 one-one-one wrote:On December 06 2012 18:43 Pursuit_ wrote:
As a Terran, here are my initial thoughts.
The new Medivac is hilariously OP, I can't see it staying as it is atm. Otherwise core Terran issues aren't really addressed, although I think these buffs will make Terran Bio OP vZ and vP and we wont even get to see late game TvT thanks to the reaper buff. New Seeker Missile sucks if it got rid of splash and is pretty nice if it didn't, though it overlaps with Yamato a lot, Thor change is basically useless. I'm not really sure how Vehicle and Air upgrades being the same will work out, tbh I feel like this change will make Mech too strong since it really smooths out the transition into air but we'll have to see.
New Oracle looks a lot like a Pheonix with worse air-to-air but better air to ground and an AoE slow. Protoss changes in general are rather uninspiring. Vortex change is confusing, kills a single target instantly but can't hit massive? Seems kinda useless?
Zerg changes all look really good, would have like to see the Hydra supply reduced to 1 though, it still needs a bit of a buff IMO. Muta and Swarm Host changes are excellent however, Ultralisk just got a huge buff vs light ground but we'll have to see if that actually makes any difference.
Edit: New Dark Shrine + 7 Range Pheonix make Pheo / DT viable for PvZ yet? As a Terran I have to say you are seriously misguided. You seem stuck in a WoL mindset where mech TvP is a no-no and there are no such thing as blinding cloud time warp and such. I advise you to think things through again. Medivac heal ability might make marauders a bit too good yes, but that is it. It wont come in to play until the lategame because most players will probably still prefer to get reactored medivacs as soon as possible. As speed bonus goes it is a nice way to get away from fungal and templars with feedback. Now you actually have a chance to get out of range by using the speed boost making drops more viable throughout the game which rewards players with good mechanics. A very good thing imo. Thor changes are not useless. You gotta be trolling me. Just the fact that 250mm is gone together with the retarded energy bar makes it viable vs protoss again. Also, its dps/area has increased since the model and collission radius is smaller meaning you can fit more thors into the same area. The new single target anti air mode might be a bit useless in its current state though. I would like it to have a way higher dps given that thors are 6 supply... I agree that seeker missile overlaps with yamatoo, but its 10 range makes it outrange feedback. Ravens will now have a natural role to fill in TvP to snipe Tempests , colossus , immortals, archons and other "OP" units making it hard for a mech player. If I understand it correctly you can employ hit-and-run tacticts from range 10 by queing up a move command in the opposite direction of the target after aiming a seeker missile at it. And it will also be possible to cover the ground with 13 range siege tanks to cover ravens from high templars. A solid change imo. It overlaps with yamatoo too much, I agree. Yamatoo should do splash damage and less single target damage to compensate. This would make it an awesome T3 unit. I actually play Mech in both WoL (~50% of the time) and HotS in TvP, for reference. I don't think you really understand how substantial the medivac change is, this upgrade increases the healing power of each individual medivac to 5/3 what it was in WoL, basically nearly doubling it. It actually becomes cost effective to get the upgrade if you plan on having more than 4 Medivacs (since 3 Medivacs with the upgrade now heal as much as 5 would otherwise). I was more thinking of TvZ with this change, I just cant see Zerg doing damage fast enough to kill units with such a massive healing bonus. I actually wasn't thinking about the energy removal, that is a pretty significant buff in TvP (although I NEVER use Thors in TvP at the moment, I prefer to go hellion / tank / viking into sky terran), but the radius is an INCREASE in radius, not a decrease. As in bigger. Reducing DPS / area. Problem with 10 range seeker missile is if you use it at 10 range they have 3 full seconds to move it out of range where it becomes useless. So you still have to get in closer to guarantee damage. On December 06 2012 19:02 Bagi wrote:On December 06 2012 18:56 Pursuit_ wrote:On December 06 2012 18:48 Crawdad wrote:On December 06 2012 18:43 Pursuit_ wrote:Thor change is basically useless. Are you high? As many before me have shown, the single target DPS is only slightly stronger than the AoE version with something like +2 to 9 damage depending on upgrades. In exchange for losing the splash, I think the overall DPS vs most compositions is actually lower. Only vs well split Brood Lords (something most Zergs don't bother to do vT atm anyway) or Battlecruisers is the Thor change a substantial difference. Is it confirmed that the new AA attack has the same attack speed as the old one? Good point, if the attack speed is considerably faster then this would be a really strong buff for mech, perhaps too strong vZ Medivac heal rate matters very little vs banelings. It is an indirect nerf vs fungal which is a good thing. I think it is a promising change since mass splash damage like fungal, colossus and storm is reduced in strength indirectly. All three races can pretty much hard counter bio by getting enough templars, colossus, fungals ,banelings or tanks. This change makes bio armies last slightly longer which might reduce the likelyhood of the opponent going for a no rush 20 minute game. I'd rather see them remove fungal root though, but this is the next best thing. You can very easily split vs banelings though. And bio has been proven to work vZ and vP already in late game (especially vP), so such a huge increase in healing ability feels like it will be OP in my opinion. Also, thanks for not being an arrogant asshole in this post
You are welcome 
But how does the new heal rate have to do anything with splitting vs banelings?
I guess units that are left alive will heal faster, but my point was that if 2 banelings hits a marine it will die regardless of medivac heal rate ...
It will matter the most on marauders and hellbats because of their high hp. But effectively it will only have the consequence that you will have to land that fungal a moment earlier, have 1 more colossus firing or a few more tanks to compensate.
It also means that medivacs burn their energy faster. Does the upgrade still give +25 starting energy?
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This will make bio way too strong. But hopefully because of the mech buffs terran won't go bio anymore.
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On December 06 2012 19:24 Mia wrote:
People understand there are new things that rape bio, ultra now deals 35damage to marine per hit up from 15, then blinding cloud makes bio 1range, then buffed hidras, then new protoss slow spell coupled with storm. Blizzard wants bio be viable and not just die to any higher tech unit. There way? buff bio survivabilty and mobility. As bio already deals crazy amount of dps.
The problem I have with this is that bio units are already durable, individually. The thing that makes them weak late game is splash damage. After the medivac buff... they'll still die the same to banelings, storm, collossus, fungal... I don't think it's going to make a big difference there.
The only difference is that you're even more screwed if you don't have splash. Meaning compositions like Roach/Hydra/Viper might not be viable anymore. We'll see but I don't like the direction it's taking. I'd like it better if medivacs could switch to "aoe healing" with a much lower rate.
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On December 06 2012 19:31 Existor wrote:Show nested quote +On December 06 2012 19:27 Everlong wrote:
Oh wow editor works so you can test all units and see how they works.. It's not works for me, gives error
Really?
I just tested 5 Thors vs 5 Broodlords and Thors won with 3 left, 1 half healt lol.. :D
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Italy12246 Posts
On December 06 2012 19:26 Crawdad wrote:This is hilarious, but it's a little too silly for me. Just give the Mothership a 200-energy spell that can potentially have an effect on the game, but probably won't because of its absurd cost.
They thought the same exact thing about the old Vortex. Look at how things turned out.
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4.25 movement speed for the medivacs seems a bit too much, especially considering the duration.
I guess no one is ever going to lose medivacs to mutas after they lose a battle, as if anyone goes muta now anyway.
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EPT![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/mAHCf.jpg)
