HotS balance update #8 - Page 60

On December 06 2012 08:23 Cracy wrote:
Thor
250mm Strike Cannons has been removed.
The Thor can now switch between two modes: High-Impact Payload and Explosive Payload. The mode shift takes 4 seconds.
When in High-Impact Payload mode, the Thor switches to a different anti-air gun (250mm Punisher Cannons) that has 10 range and deals 24 flat damage.
Thor radius, inner radius, and separation radius increased from 0.8215 to 1.

On December 06 2012 17:40 Crawdad wrote:
When every race is OP...

No race is.

On December 06 2012 20:01 Rabiator wrote:


Goliath
Cost: 100 minerals/50 gas; 40 seconds; 2 supply
Defense: 1 armor; 125 hit points;
Offense: attack ground/air 12(+1) / 20(+4)explosive; 22 "cooldown"; range ground/air 5/8;
Cargo size: 2
Speed: DECENT

Thor WoL
Cost: 300 minerals/200 gas; 60 seconds, 6 supply
Defense: 1 armor; 400 hit points;
Offense: attack ground/air 30(+3)*2 / (6(+1)+6 vs light(+1))*4 splash; 1,28/3,00 "cooldown" for ground/air; range ground/air
Cargo size: 8
Speed: AWFUL

Thor HotS "High impact"
Offense: attack air 24

The "high impact mode" damage for the Thor is just the same as its regular damage ... except you only have to pass ONE set of armor oh and you DONT get the bonus damage against light. 6*4 = 24 ...

Really? REALLY??????

And I thought you were trying to make mech viable. Give the Thor proper damage against single targets instead of this junk OR (preferably) give Terrans the Goliath instead and remove the Thor. You are trying to turn your stupid and clunky big unit into the Goliath anyways or why was its size reduced?

On December 06 2012 20:01 Rabiator wrote:
While looking at the patch notes I got a bit angry about the seemingly bad change to the Thor. A high single target damage in itself is a good thing, BUT it is only FOUR DAMAGE higher than its BW counterpart had as damage. I started digging into the stats a bit and found that it was worse than I thought when I began ...



Goliath
Cost: 100 minerals/50 gas; 40 seconds; 2 supply
Defense: 1 armor; 125 hit points;
Offense: attack ground/air 12(+1) / 20(+4)explosive; 22 "cooldown"; range ground/air 5/8;
Cargo size: 2
Speed: DECENT

Thor WoL
Cost: 300 minerals/200 gas; 60 seconds, 6 supply
Defense: 1 armor; 400 hit points;
Offense: attack ground/air 30(+3)*2 / (6(+1)+6 vs light(+1))*4 splash; 1,28/3,00 "cooldown" for ground/air; range ground/air
Cargo size: 8
Speed: AWFUL

Thor HotS "High impact"
Offense: attack air 24

The "high impact mode" damage for the Thor is just the same as its regular damage ... except you only have to pass ONE set of armor oh and you DONT get the bonus damage against light. 6*4 = 24 ...

Really? REALLY??????

And I thought you were trying to make mech viable. Give the Thor proper damage against single targets instead of this junk OR (preferably) give Terrans the Goliath instead and remove the Thor. You are trying to turn your stupid and clunky big unit into the Goliath anyways or why was its size reduced?

Conclusion #1:
Blizzard seems to be "seeing the light" in that mech needs the Goliath, but they are too cowardly to just remove the Thor and add the BW unit. They also cant do the math properly and present us with a damage nerf against light air in this new and shiny single target mode ...

The depressing part is that there will be too many people out there who wont see that they are basically getting the same - too weak for a 6 supply unit - deal in a different package and will cheer for "new stuff".

----

Now lets bring the "air opposition" for comparison:

Guardian
Cost: 150 minerals/200 gas; 40 seconds; 2 supply
Defense: 2 armor/150 hit points
Offense: 20(+2) damage; 30 "cooldown"; range 8
Speed: SLOW

Broodlord
Cost: 300 minerals/250 gas; 74 seconds; 4 supply
Defense: 1 armor; 225 hit points
Offense: 20(+2) damage; 2,5 "cooldown"; range 9,5
Speed: SLOW

The Guardian has more armor but a lot less hit points and costs twice the supply compared to the Broodlord, however ... the Broodlord has a lower cooldown compared with the Thor and the Guardian had a significantly higher cooldown than the Goliath. In addition the Broodlings spawned by the Broodlord prevent it from moving and this is a decided advantage AND they deal additional damage as well during their short lifespan.

Conclusion #2
If we assume the relationship between the Goliath and its Zerg counterpart to be balanced in BW the stats are totally in Zergs favour in SC2 with a lower cooldown AND free units for the Broodlord while the Thor and this new proposed change does not improve the situation one bit. Just 0,5 range advantage of the Thor is supposed to make up for free units which block the way and limit maneuverability ... who really believes that?

IF the change was "four attacks of 24 damage against a single target" - like they have for the splash attack - it would have been too much but closer to the target than the 24 damage. That isnt the case. It is ONE attack of 24 damage. Personally I would say it should be "four single target attacks against separate targets OR - if there is only one target/the Thor gets told which target to focus down - against one target". An appropriate damage would be something like 12-16 for each of these attacks. Oh and this should replace the current abuseable AoE damage.

On December 06 2012 20:21 gOst wrote:
Hahaha you just gotta love all the negativity in this thread, but I guess some people just love to complain. I think it's great blizzard finally showing some balls and dare to make some significant changes. There is no way all these changes are making it through the way they are though. Though with some number-tweaking, hots might actually make it through.

The only thing I really don't like is the merging of vehicle and ship upgrades for terran as this is not something that is tweakable . I would rather have seen them made cheaper instead and maybe a tad bit faster.

On December 06 2012 20:21 opterown wrote:

i think this thread actually sounds overwhelmingly positive compared to some of the other threads of late, it's refreshing :D