• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EST 15:32
CET 21:32
KST 05:32
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
RSL Season 3 - RO16 Groups A & B Preview1TL.net Map Contest #21: Winners11Intel X Team Liquid Seoul event: Showmatches and Meet the Pros10[ASL20] Finals Preview: Arrival13TL.net Map Contest #21: Voting12
Community News
[TLMC] Fall/Winter 2025 Ladder Map Rotation10Weekly Cups (Nov 3-9): Clem Conquers in Canada4SC: Evo Complete - Ranked Ladder OPEN ALPHA8StarCraft, SC2, HotS, WC3, Returning to Blizzcon!45$5,000+ WardiTV 2025 Championship7
StarCraft 2
General
RSL Season 3 - RO16 Groups A & B Preview [TLMC] Fall/Winter 2025 Ladder Map Rotation Mech is the composition that needs teleportation t Weekly Cups (Nov 3-9): Clem Conquers in Canada Craziest Micro Moments Of All Time?
Tourneys
RSL Revival: Season 3 Constellation Cup - Main Event - Stellar Fest Tenacious Turtle Tussle Master Swan Open (Global Bronze-Master 2) Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament
Strategy
Custom Maps
Map Editor closed ?
External Content
Mutation # 499 Chilling Adaptation Mutation # 498 Wheel of Misfortune|Cradle of Death Mutation # 497 Battle Haredened Mutation # 496 Endless Infection
Brood War
General
FlaSh on: Biggest Problem With SnOw's Playstyle Brood War web app to calculate unit interactions [ASL20] Ask the mapmakers — Drop your questions BW General Discussion Terran 1:35 12 Gas Optimization
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues Small VOD Thread 2.0 [BSL21] RO32 Group D - Sunday 21:00 CET [BSL21] RO32 Group C - Saturday 21:00 CET
Strategy
Current Meta Simple Questions, Simple Answers PvZ map balance How to stay on top of macro?
Other Games
General Games
Should offensive tower rushing be viable in RTS games? Nintendo Switch Thread Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread EVE Corporation Path of Exile
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread SPIRED by.ASL Mafia {211640}
Community
General
Artificial Intelligence Thread US Politics Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Canadian Politics Mega-thread
Fan Clubs
White-Ra Fan Club The herO Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
[Manga] One Piece Anime Discussion Thread Movie Discussion! Korean Music Discussion Series you have seen recently...
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion NBA General Discussion MLB/Baseball 2023 TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
SC2 Client Relocalization [Change SC2 Language] Linksys AE2500 USB WIFI keeps disconnecting Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Dyadica Gospel – a Pulp No…
Hildegard
Coffee x Performance in Espo…
TrAiDoS
Saturation point
Uldridge
DnB/metal remix FFO Mick Go…
ImbaTosS
Reality "theory" prov…
perfectspheres
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1722 users

HotS balance update #8 - Page 49

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 HotS
2296 CommentsPost a Reply
Prev 1 47 48 49 50 51 115 Next
ElMeanYo
Profile Joined March 2011
United States1032 Posts
December 06 2012 07:24 GMT
#961
On December 06 2012 16:11 KrazyTrumpet wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 06 2012 16:09 Swartblits wrote:
Heart of the Swarm Beta patch 2.0.5
"Due to unpresendented strike action in protoss factory worker unions, the Protoss airforce cannot produce quality Voidrays, even the mighty mothership is a big dead weight now. With detection being so early and abundant the dark templars left for shakuras with little or any left for covert missions"

Heart of the Swarm Beta patch 2.0.6
"The Protoss race have been annihilated by an unknown elder god called Blizzard. There will only be 2 races in the game now although Protoss can be selected for lols just to see them die again."

Protoss is doing very badly currently in tourneys with a very big % of people playing Zerg. This is the time of the zerg just being op in general, so why for the love of.. does blizz go and nerf away 3 Protoss units. Is it too much to ask for Protoss to have an air or ground harasser unit that don't require some kind of gimmick to harrras the worker line?
-_-

Suppose well see.


Yeah, it's not a gimmick. Oracles kill workers EXTREMELY quickly. I also don't see how you can say that they've nerfed away void rays. They have an actual role now, and one they will likely fill quite nicely. Sky Toss now seems to have way better synergy than before, and is shaping up to be a completely valid playstyle with minimal gateway support required.


I had a chance to test oracles vs Zerglings too... and they kill zerglings very fast. Methinks they could be used to back up a ground force vs mass zergling, or just be a cheap defense vs zergling runbys.
“The only man who never makes mistakes is the man who never does anything.” ― Theodore Roosevelt
FoShao
Profile Joined November 2012
United States256 Posts
December 06 2012 07:24 GMT
#962
...dude the terran and protoss changes are sooo lame...reapers can kite everything with the speed upgrade, even zerglings WTF LOL it should be that nothing is faster on ground than zerglings. Medivac acceleration for 8 seconds, cool down for 20 seconds, so essentially they can get away from anything and the real cooldown is only 12 in game seconds which is like nothing. I don't think they're buffing terran the right way with these changes. As for protoss, wtf are they doing with the VR? why does everything need to be a spell caster now -_-
DemigodcelpH
Profile Joined August 2011
1138 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-12-06 07:25:29
December 06 2012 07:25 GMT
#963
On December 06 2012 09:15 Plansix wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 06 2012 09:13 iSoak wrote:
Rather than make zerg and protoss more micro intensive, they've made terran less micro intensive.

oracle is still retarted.

widow mine is still stupid and boring (imo. a pet peeve actually, so much potential wasted...).

dark shrine cheese has been extremely buffed

infestor still in the game

Deathballs still abound.


Idra disagrees: "new hots patch seems like a good patch for good players. stuff might be imbalanced but it'll be much more entertaining than wol has been."

Idra is happy with a patch, your point is invalid.


My god. Even Idra is happy with this patch.

The world is officially ending, and so is my SC2 boycott. It feels good to be back.
summerloud
Profile Joined March 2010
Austria1201 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-12-06 07:34:33
December 06 2012 07:26 GMT
#964
i remember someone posting yesterday "2/3 of the changes will be awesome 1/3 of the changes will make people go wtf"

was pretty on spot. this patch has some awesome ideas, but some things just seem overly weird.

medivac buff is an indirect nerf considering the cost i guess. makes more sense than ever to snipe them.

terran becomes more an more a race of transformers, not sure what to think of thor change yet

tempest nerf was unavoidable, at least dark shrine finally got cheaper, build time reduction would have been nice as well tho

some of the changes like seeker missile are so weird i cant even judge if i like them

lots of testing will have to be done


edit: one thing that blizzard seems to struggle with specifically is trying to find unique roles for sooo many air units in the protoss arsenal. phoenix, voids, oracle, tempest, carrier they all kinda overlap in one way or the other, which is pretty unavoidable...

that said, the new phoenix changes might make them too good, but lets see...
convention
Profile Joined October 2011
United States622 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-12-06 07:27:32
December 06 2012 07:27 GMT
#965
On December 06 2012 16:20 eviltomahawk wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 06 2012 16:00 Rabiator wrote:
On December 06 2012 15:56 akademikx wrote:
wow HotS might not be awful now

Yeah ... it looks like "totally terribly awful" now after this "sledgehammer balancing" by Blizzard. The only saving grace is that there are still some months to go until this expansion is released, but I doubt they will have a stable balance by then since they feel that such huge balance changes are necessary.

Not just balance changes. Design changes. They could have easily balanced what they had in 2.0.1 by release time, but that would be no fun. Big changes like this are what's needed to keep HotS fresh and better than WoL.

These changes are not just fresh, but for the most part are excellent changes for the game. For example, they added pretty big buffs to the more micro intensive units: medivacs ( a huge boost for people who pay focus on their drops), mutas got a speed buff to improve their harass potential (giving strong zerg players such as life an option to outplay their opponent better through sheer multitask), the phoenix was buffed to be able to deal with mutas (phoenix are incredibly apm taxing), the oracle is now a powerful harass unit (that thing is a paper airplane, clearly requires good reaction time/control), medivacs again to improve bio play to keep a very challeing syle competitive, infestors nerfed to shift the zerg playstyle over to vipers hopefully (much more skill-requiring than infestors), and so on. These buffs are very exciting.
Crawdad
Profile Joined September 2012
614 Posts
December 06 2012 07:28 GMT
#966
On December 06 2012 16:24 FoShao wrote:
...dude the terran and protoss changes are sooo lame...reapers can kite everything with the speed upgrade, even zerglings WTF LOL it should be that nothing is faster on ground than zerglings.


Incorrect, Speedlings are still faster than Nitro Reapers, especially on Creep.

On December 06 2012 16:24 FoShao wrote:
Medivac acceleration for 8 seconds, cool down for 20 seconds, so essentially they can get away from anything and the real cooldown is only 12 in game seconds which is like nothing.


Can someone verify that this is actually how cooldowns work in SC2?

On December 06 2012 16:24 FoShao wrote:As for protoss, wtf are they doing with the VR? why does everything need to be a spell caster now -_-


It only has one ability, which does not even require energy. By your logic, the Zealot is a spellcaster.
KrazyTrumpet
Profile Joined April 2010
United States2520 Posts
December 06 2012 07:29 GMT
#967
On December 06 2012 16:21 DemigodcelpH wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 06 2012 09:11 GenesisX wrote:
Infestors kinda suck now since ITs don't scale with ranged upgrades. Pretty much suck against late game armies.


Not true at all. Winning every battle with 100 supply of free upgraded infested marines PLUS the Zerg 200/200 super army was blatantly and utterly imbalanced. Now it will be balanced.


Yeah, this relegates IT to their intended role, imo. That of damage absorption/cannon fodder in large fights, and economy harass. They will still fulfill these roles quite well.
www.twitch.tv/krazy Best Stream Quality NA @KClarkSC2
DemigodcelpH
Profile Joined August 2011
1138 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-12-06 07:30:44
December 06 2012 07:30 GMT
#968
On December 06 2012 09:22 Cyro wrote:
If you crash into his army of marines with some medivacs over you need 3 or more lings of surface area per marine TO DO ANY DAMAGE AT ALL.


Faulty logic. That only makes sense if Terran has a personal medivac for every marine which obviously isn't feasible. In reality Marines will still be murdered by Protoss and Zerg AoE just not as fast late game.

It's also a very reasonable change when you consider that Ultralisks have buffed damage now.
Testuser
Profile Blog Joined June 2011
6469 Posts
December 06 2012 07:30 GMT
#969
What a patch.

Really wish I had HotS now
https://soundcloud.com/papercranesdk
Savko
Profile Joined August 2012
Canada45 Posts
December 06 2012 07:33 GMT
#970
At this point they should just get rid of the Mothership all together. Keep the MS Core and bring back the Arbiter. Stasis needs to happen again.
"Hello! Bye bye sucker. I have Recall. ADIOS" - PartinG
Dealer009
Profile Joined November 2010
Canada3 Posts
December 06 2012 07:36 GMT
#971
Medivac
Health restored per second from 9 to 15

Seems obscene.
FoShao
Profile Joined November 2012
United States256 Posts
December 06 2012 07:36 GMT
#972


On December 06 2012 16:24 FoShao wrote:As for protoss, wtf are they doing with the VR? why does everything need to be a spell caster now -_-


It only has one ability, which does not even require energy. By your logic, the Zealot is a spellcaster.[/QUOTE]


No, the zealot legs upgrade is an automatic "spell" and because of that I wouldn't consider that a real spellcaster. zealot legs you can just either turn it on automatic or off. The VR I presume you'll actually have to select VR's in battle and press the hotkey for the new spell to be casted. That's what I meant by it being a spellcaster.
DemigodcelpH
Profile Joined August 2011
1138 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-12-06 07:38:12
December 06 2012 07:38 GMT
#973
On December 06 2012 09:29 Breach_hu wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 06 2012 09:23 HolydaKing wrote:
wow, was Zerg so OP in HotS before this patch? this patch reads as a huge protoss and terran buff and i'm not sure if zerg is buffed at all (given the infestor nerf). it depends on how useful hydras are by now, i guess...


Yes it was, every Zerg just made roaches/swarmhosts, then Hydras to get more DPS and get Vipers later on, and every matchup got solved, and they could do that while they had 4-5k in the bank, beating maxed out P or T armies with a lots of tanks (hello blinding cloud) and abduct made colossi look silly. It was really funny to have an army as terran (i played againts Idra like 3-4 games on ladder for example) and he just rolled a 200/200 2-2 terran army with 2-2 roach/hydra backed up with 4-5 fully charged viper (hello consume) not even losing half of his army. My army was spread out to negate blinding cloud's effect, but even then my tanks werent shooting at all and i just witnessed that he just murdered my army with an army which has 5k less army value.


More or less this. No Zerg should be complaining about ANYTHING right now. The above doesn't even consider the past 1.5 years of Wings of Lings, and is specific to the HotS metagame.

On December 06 2012 16:36 Dealer009 wrote:
Medivac
Health restored per second from 9 to 15

Seems obscene.


Not so much.

On December 06 2012 09:22 DemigodcelpH wrote:
In reality Marines will still be murdered by Protoss and Zerg AoE just not as fast late game.

It's also a very reasonable change when you consider that Ultralisks have buffed damage now.
KrazyTrumpet
Profile Joined April 2010
United States2520 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-12-06 07:39:15
December 06 2012 07:38 GMT
#974
Show nested quote +
On December 06 2012 16:36 FoShao wrote:


On December 06 2012 16:24 FoShao wrote:As for protoss, wtf are they doing with the VR? why does everything need to be a spell caster now -_-


It only has one ability, which does not even require energy. By your logic, the Zealot is a spellcaster.



No, the zealot legs upgrade is an automatic "spell" and because of that I wouldn't consider that a real spellcaster. zealot legs you can just either turn it on automatic or off. The VR I presume you'll actually have to select VR's in battle and press the hotkey for the new spell to be casted. That's what I meant by it being a spellcaster.


More activated abilities is good. It forces tactical decisions, and rewards players that are better at multitasking and handling complex engagements.
www.twitch.tv/krazy Best Stream Quality NA @KClarkSC2
Whitewing
Profile Joined October 2010
United States7483 Posts
December 06 2012 07:40 GMT
#975
On December 06 2012 16:33 Savko wrote:
At this point they should just get rid of the Mothership all together. Keep the MS Core and bring back the Arbiter. Stasis needs to happen again.


They fully intend to remove the mothership from high level games and pro games. They want it to be purely for casual players who like big awesome looking fun units without really knowing anything.

So.... okay I guess. Kind of silly but whatever.
Strategy"You know I fucking hate the way you play, right?" ~SC2John
Hier
Profile Blog Joined November 2009
2391 Posts
December 06 2012 07:42 GMT
#976
Although some of these are good, a lot of the changes look either totally random, or counterproductive. I guess the Colossus isn't going to get modified in any way.
"But on a more serious note..." -everyone on this forum at some point.
FoShao
Profile Joined November 2012
United States256 Posts
December 06 2012 07:43 GMT
#977
More activated abilities is good. It forces tactical decisions, and rewards players that are better at multitasking and handling complex engagements.


yea, I know, but I mean with the direction blizzard is taking SC2 with these patches, it's soon gonna be a whole army full of spell casters which I feel is rather counter intuitive. I mean think of protoss late game armies right now: sentries,oracle,stalkers,high templar, and maybe VR. the non spell casters of the army are now zealots and colossus(few that don't need to be bothered at all) :/ I dunno that's just my two cents on the matter
Whitewing
Profile Joined October 2010
United States7483 Posts
December 06 2012 07:44 GMT
#978
On December 06 2012 16:43 FoShao wrote:
Show nested quote +
More activated abilities is good. It forces tactical decisions, and rewards players that are better at multitasking and handling complex engagements.


yea, I know, but I mean with the direction blizzard is taking SC2 with these patches, it's soon gonna be a whole army full of spell casters which I feel is rather counter intuitive. I mean think of protoss late game armies right now: sentries,oracle,stalkers,high templar, and maybe VR. the non spell casters of the army are now zealots and colossus(few that don't need to be bothered at all) :/ I dunno that's just my two cents on the matter


It's gonna be effing tough to micro all of that lol.
Strategy"You know I fucking hate the way you play, right?" ~SC2John
KrazyTrumpet
Profile Joined April 2010
United States2520 Posts
December 06 2012 07:44 GMT
#979
On December 06 2012 16:42 Hier wrote:
Although some of these are good, a lot of the changes look either totally random, or counterproductive. I guess the Colossus isn't going to get modified in any way.


This is likely only the first pass of many changes to the old units. I hope to god Colossus and Carrier get some attention, but especially the Carrier.
www.twitch.tv/krazy Best Stream Quality NA @KClarkSC2
Big J
Profile Joined March 2011
Austria16289 Posts
December 06 2012 07:44 GMT
#980
wow, patch notes sound amazing. Medivacs & Ultras sound like they are the new imba shit
Prev 1 47 48 49 50 51 115 Next
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 4h 28m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
mouzHeroMarine 592
White-Ra 276
PiGStarcraft252
IndyStarCraft 147
UpATreeSC 122
ProTech121
BRAT_OK 29
JuggernautJason7
StarCraft: Brood War
Calm 2536
Shuttle 456
firebathero 319
Dota 2
PGG 144
Counter-Strike
pashabiceps913
fl0m660
Foxcn490
Heroes of the Storm
Trikslyr94
Other Games
Grubby4195
gofns1134
Beastyqt490
DeMusliM329
Fuzer 233
C9.Mang059
Organizations
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 23 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Hupsaiya 3
• Reevou 3
• Dystopia_ 2
• intothetv
• sooper7s
• Migwel
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• IndyKCrew
• Kozan
StarCraft: Brood War
• blackmanpl 25
• 80smullet 24
• Michael_bg 2
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
• BSLYoutube
Dota 2
• masondota21093
• WagamamaTV647
• lizZardDota252
League of Legends
• Nemesis3598
• imaqtpie2493
• TFBlade1180
Other Games
• Shiphtur257
Upcoming Events
PiGosaur Cup
4h 28m
RSL Revival
13h 28m
Classic vs Creator
Cure vs TriGGeR
Kung Fu Cup
15h 28m
GuMiho vs MaNa
herO vs ShoWTimE
Classic vs TBD
CranKy Ducklings
1d 13h
RSL Revival
1d 13h
herO vs Gerald
ByuN vs SHIN
Kung Fu Cup
1d 15h
Cure vs Reynor
IPSL
1d 20h
ZZZero vs rasowy
Napoleon vs KameZerg
BSL 21
1d 23h
Tarson vs Julia
Doodle vs OldBoy
eOnzErG vs WolFix
StRyKeR vs Aeternum
Sparkling Tuna Cup
2 days
RSL Revival
2 days
Reynor vs sOs
Maru vs Ryung
[ Show More ]
Kung Fu Cup
2 days
WardiTV Korean Royale
2 days
BSL 21
2 days
JDConan vs Semih
Dragon vs Dienmax
Tech vs NewOcean
TerrOr vs Artosis
IPSL
2 days
Dewalt vs WolFix
eOnzErG vs Bonyth
Replay Cast
3 days
Wardi Open
3 days
Monday Night Weeklies
3 days
WardiTV Korean Royale
4 days
The PondCast
5 days
Replay Cast
6 days
RSL Revival
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2025-11-07
Stellar Fest: Constellation Cup
Eternal Conflict S1

Ongoing

C-Race Season 1
IPSL Winter 2025-26
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 4
SOOP Univ League 2025
YSL S2
BSL Season 21
CSCL: Masked Kings S3
RSL Revival: Season 3
BLAST Rivals Fall 2025
IEM Chengdu 2025
PGL Masters Bucharest 2025
Thunderpick World Champ.
CS Asia Championships 2025
ESL Pro League S22
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025
BLAST Open Fall Qual

Upcoming

SLON Tour Season 2
BSL 21 Non-Korean Championship
Acropolis #4
IPSL Spring 2026
HSC XXVIII
RSL Offline Finals
WardiTV 2025
META Madness #9
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026: Closed Qualifier
eXTREMESLAND 2025
ESL Impact League Season 8
SL Budapest Major 2025
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.