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On December 06 2012 15:46 deth wrote:Show nested quote +On December 06 2012 15:24 one-one-one wrote:
Thor
250mm Strike Cannons has been removed.
The Thor can now switch between two modes: High-Impact Payload and Explosive Payload. The mode shift takes 4 seconds.
When in High-Impact Payload mode, the Thor switches to a different anti-air gun (250mm Punisher Cannons) that has 10 range and deals 24 flat damage.
Thor radius, inner radius, and separation radius increased from 0.8215 to 1.
This is the qutest and most subtle change ever. Remember David Kim saying that mass Thor strats were hurting E-sports because it was hard for them to estimate the size of Thor based armies?
Never mind the collossus which is actually worse since it can "hide" units underneath it and a way more common unit to mass at the time, lol.
So now, when they buff the Thor, they still think of the n00bs by making the collission radius larger.
Isn't that qute?
The new thor is actually seriously small as well.
They decreased the model size?
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Terran will be VERY VERY Strong, TvZ Drops will be unstoppable late game, can u imagine 3-3 marines with 5 regen health from that medivac, that will be super strong, mech TvP is strong right now, just imagine with these set of changes, ravens are super useful now, easy way to have upgraded units, air and ground
This patch will revert to take down a few things, nonetheless interesting stuff
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On December 06 2012 15:39 Skiblet wrote:
This is cool i like everything except the medivac buff...honestly this is going to be ridiculously OP in my opinion.
I think that sooner or later the speed boost will be changed. I haven't played BETA after these changes but from what Husky showed it looks that You can fly on speed boost all the time. The cooldown is really short. The idea is great, but for the moment too powerful. Cooldown needs to be longer or speed boost should cost energy. Personally as Terran I would prefer longer cooldown.
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If "OP" means: A protoss harass unit successfully killing drones when the opponent doesn't have any defenses or reaction.
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On December 06 2012 15:47 one-one-one wrote:Show nested quote +On December 06 2012 15:46 deth wrote:On December 06 2012 15:24 one-one-one wrote:
Thor
250mm Strike Cannons has been removed.
The Thor can now switch between two modes: High-Impact Payload and Explosive Payload. The mode shift takes 4 seconds.
When in High-Impact Payload mode, the Thor switches to a different anti-air gun (250mm Punisher Cannons) that has 10 range and deals 24 flat damage.
Thor radius, inner radius, and separation radius increased from 0.8215 to 1.
This is the qutest and most subtle change ever. Remember David Kim saying that mass Thor strats were hurting E-sports because it was hard for them to estimate the size of Thor based armies?
Never mind the collossus which is actually worse since it can "hide" units underneath it and a way more common unit to mass at the time, lol.
So now, when they buff the Thor, they still think of the n00bs by making the collission radius larger.
Isn't that qute?
The new thor is actually seriously small as well. They decreased the model size?
yes, maybe it was from 1 to .86 not .86 to 1 like they said
its smaller now
Did lots of tests with explosive vs high payload on my stream (check out most recent vid, look towards the unit testing at the end)
And it seems that despite having big battles with normal clumping (not 1 ball, but some overlap) it is a little better to use High payload than explosive (enough to notice) against compositions where they don't have light
against light, probably explosive is better...? high payload attacks 50% faster btw
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Two final questions:
#1: Can the Oracle attack air units?
#2: Does the HotS version of HSM still require research?
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Wow they sure are throwing things around 
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On December 06 2012 15:52 Yoshi Kirishima wrote:Show nested quote +On December 06 2012 15:47 one-one-one wrote:On December 06 2012 15:46 deth wrote:On December 06 2012 15:24 one-one-one wrote:
Thor
250mm Strike Cannons has been removed.
The Thor can now switch between two modes: High-Impact Payload and Explosive Payload. The mode shift takes 4 seconds.
When in High-Impact Payload mode, the Thor switches to a different anti-air gun (250mm Punisher Cannons) that has 10 range and deals 24 flat damage.
Thor radius, inner radius, and separation radius increased from 0.8215 to 1.
This is the qutest and most subtle change ever. Remember David Kim saying that mass Thor strats were hurting E-sports because it was hard for them to estimate the size of Thor based armies?
Never mind the collossus which is actually worse since it can "hide" units underneath it and a way more common unit to mass at the time, lol.
So now, when they buff the Thor, they still think of the n00bs by making the collission radius larger.
Isn't that qute?
The new thor is actually seriously small as well. They decreased the model size? yes, maybe it was from 1 to .86 not .86 to 1 like they said its smaller now
Ok. Whatever.
The real question is: will this hurt E-sports?
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Those terran changes are nuts - and not in the good way.
Blizzard thinks mine should be used offensively when that's what half the complains were about.
Reapers will now wreck TvT even more and thor is still immobile and no counter to tempest.
Mech TvP will remain as dead as ever.
Battlecruiser wasn't even touched while raven is turned into massive-unit killer at a cost of even more problems with air-superiority.
And now the new medivacs will out-heal a lot of melee units which is just stupid to watch.
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On December 06 2012 15:53 one-one-one wrote:Show nested quote +On December 06 2012 15:52 Yoshi Kirishima wrote:On December 06 2012 15:47 one-one-one wrote:On December 06 2012 15:46 deth wrote:On December 06 2012 15:24 one-one-one wrote:
Thor
250mm Strike Cannons has been removed.
The Thor can now switch between two modes: High-Impact Payload and Explosive Payload. The mode shift takes 4 seconds.
When in High-Impact Payload mode, the Thor switches to a different anti-air gun (250mm Punisher Cannons) that has 10 range and deals 24 flat damage.
Thor radius, inner radius, and separation radius increased from 0.8215 to 1.
This is the qutest and most subtle change ever. Remember David Kim saying that mass Thor strats were hurting E-sports because it was hard for them to estimate the size of Thor based armies?
Never mind the collossus which is actually worse since it can "hide" units underneath it and a way more common unit to mass at the time, lol.
So now, when they buff the Thor, they still think of the n00bs by making the collission radius larger.
Isn't that qute?
The new thor is actually seriously small as well. They decreased the model size? yes, maybe it was from 1 to .86 not .86 to 1 like they said its smaller now Ok. Whatever. The real question is: will this hurt E-sports?
Sorry, i meant UNLIKE they said
haha idk, i guess it solves the problem and they are ok with making more thors now (to compensate for thors' increased role in AA now?) since they're smaller and dont clutter vision as much
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On December 06 2012 15:47 blade55555 wrote:Aw we have to wait till tomorrow before we can play 
Damn!
Work=All day tommorrow
Sadness
The one time I actually want to play sc2 in a year I cant. Epic fail.
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this looks like a "minor" buff for terran.
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wow HotS might not be awful now
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On December 06 2012 15:47 one-one-one wrote:Show nested quote +On December 06 2012 15:46 deth wrote:On December 06 2012 15:24 one-one-one wrote:
Thor
250mm Strike Cannons has been removed.
The Thor can now switch between two modes: High-Impact Payload and Explosive Payload. The mode shift takes 4 seconds.
When in High-Impact Payload mode, the Thor switches to a different anti-air gun (250mm Punisher Cannons) that has 10 range and deals 24 flat damage.
Thor radius, inner radius, and separation radius increased from 0.8215 to 1.
This is the qutest and most subtle change ever. Remember David Kim saying that mass Thor strats were hurting E-sports because it was hard for them to estimate the size of Thor based armies?
Never mind the collossus which is actually worse since it can "hide" units underneath it and a way more common unit to mass at the time, lol.
So now, when they buff the Thor, they still think of the n00bs by making the collission radius larger.
Isn't that qute?
The new thor is actually seriously small as well. They decreased the model size?
http://www.twitch.tv/dethfanatic/b/345661769 at 36:35 I start playing with the new thor.
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On December 06 2012 15:53 Crawdad wrote:
Two final questions:
#1: Can the Oracle attack air units?
#2: Does the HotS version of HSM still require research?
#1: No, it cannot attack air units.
#2: Idk, the servers went down before I could test it :p. I would assume it doesn't, though.
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On December 06 2012 15:56 akademikx wrote:
wow HotS might not be awful now
Yeah ... it looks like "totally terribly awful" now after this "sledgehammer balancing" by Blizzard. The only saving grace is that there are still some months to go until this expansion is released, but I doubt they will have a stable balance by then since they feel that such huge balance changes are necessary.
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On December 06 2012 15:54 pmp10 wrote:
Those terran changes are nuts - and not in the good way.
Blizzard thinks mine should be used offensively when that's what half the complains were about.
Reapers will now wreck TvT even more and thor is still immobile and no counter to tempest.
Mech TvP will remain as dead as ever.
Battlecruiser wasn't even touched while raven is turned into massive-unit killer at a cost of even more problems with air-superiority.
You answered your own question there.
Raven seeker missile is gonna be the shit versus Tempests.
Thor without energy bars is gonna be awesome in TvP. They will be key in terran mech composition to deal with
high hp protoss units. Battle hellions can be healed by upgraded medivacs and are now ~110/90 times stronger in battle mode.
I for sure am going to incorporate a lot of hellion drops vs protoss now. The hellions are expendable for harass, but saving the medivacs for later will be super important.
Not super exited about mine changes. Imo they should make it .5 supply and remove the ability to hit air while increasing splash and removing single target damage.
I guess they want mines to be active units. With fast burrow time you can now stall enemy armies with "mobile" minefields.
Won't work out so well if the opponent has mobile detection though, but very useful in TvT to force scans.
If they make changes so that the widow mine is actually more like a proper mine then I will buy Hots.
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Hopefully things will be at least EVEN against Zerg now.
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Raven the new counter to Colossi?
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This is like getting ready to play a brand new game, infact that is essentially exactly what we are doing because these changes are so drastic, The medivac speed, pheonix range +2 , The oracle, the vortex, is what seems to be an issue right now. Um... this is just so weird.
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EPT
