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On December 06 2012 10:27 dw.Justify wrote:
I just post it again because the amount of new posts here is incredeble and all people just seem to love the patch because it brings alot of new features (ok there are some people that talk about the imbalance)
BUT THE IMBALANCE IS SO OBVIOUS (ok its just a beta but ... even here it scares me)
Again, it could end up the case where all the imbalance ends up creating a new and refreshing dynamic between the races. Else since it's a beta, they can tweak or add new stuff to compensate. Stop worrying so much, jeez.
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Only thing to give me some pause are the medivac changes. I'll have to see how they operate in practice.
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OK. Seeker missile is now single-targeted. Sigh. It's really yamato cannon. They need to change that again. I was wrong, it's worse than before.
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On December 06 2012 10:18 Inquisitor1323 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 06 2012 10:16 Gormeroth wrote:
I'm going to just point out an interesting little connection I made.
Yamato Cannon:
10 range
3 second charge/activation time
125 energy
300 damage
Hunter Seeker Missile:
Ditto yo Battlecruiser no longer available. Raven now has two forms: Ravencruiser and Battleraven.
Maybe they will replace the BC's ability (which is relatively unused) with something else?
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On December 06 2012 10:31 Yoshi Kirishima wrote:Show nested quote +On December 06 2012 10:18 Inquisitor1323 wrote:On December 06 2012 10:16 Gormeroth wrote:
I'm going to just point out an interesting little connection I made.
Yamato Cannon:
10 range
3 second charge/activation time
125 energy
300 damage
Hunter Seeker Missile:
Ditto yo Battlecruiser no longer available. Raven now has two forms: Ravencruiser and Battleraven. Maybe they will replace the BC's ability (which is relatively unused) with something else?
No, we will miss Korean casters' "YAMATOOOOO"
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Finnally HotS should be fun to play again. At least for the funs!
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I'm going for bio + thors after the patch kicks in. and maybe a few more vikings
It will be smart to keep the thors to help counter BL/Ultralisk switching play
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Lots of good changes but a few questionable ones:
Raven
Seeker Missile has been redesigned:
I like the delay and ability to run out of range but single target damage for 300 just makes it a glorified yamato cannon. Seems a little uninspired.
Armory
The Armory now only has one weapon and one armor upgrade for both air and ground upgrades for both Factory and Starport units.
Maybe this is a little excessive, they should leave vehicle and air weapon upgrades separate and combine the armor upgrades. Small steps....
Mothership
Vortex now kills a single target.
Vortex does not affect massive units.
Seems like a really boring spell now. I know vortex was a little powerful but I think it could have been tweaked a bit more creatively and elegantly.
Void Ray
Prismatic Beam:
No longer charges up.
Weapon period decreased from 0.6 to 0.5.
No longer does passive +massive damage.
Prismatic Alignment (new ability) increases damage to armored units by 6 for 20 seconds, with a 1 minute cooldown. This does not scale with upgrades.
Charge up was better, plus this doesn't really solve the overlapping role problem. Would like to see the charge up become more comprehensive actually. Should start at lower damage than it currently does and charge up to a higher maximum damage similar to how it was in WoL Beta. Maybe a fleet beacon upgrade that increases charge up rate.
Changes I am unsure about:
Hellbat
Splash damage radius increased from 90 to 110.
Might be an overbuff but I'll wait to see how it pans out.
Oracle
Pulsar Beam
Now called “Activate Pulsar Beam” and “Deactivate Pulsar Beam”.
When activated, the Oracle’s Pulsar Beam is enabled.
Weapon deals 15+10 light.
Weapon period changed to 0.86, down from 1.
Weapon range reduced to 4.
Build time increased to 50, up from 35.
Energy drain is now 4 per second.
I'm not sure what they are trying to do with the oracle, whether this is a bad change or a good change just seems like its directionless. Need to try it and see how it operates, might be a fun to harass with. Needs some sort of cooldown or energy tension. Maybe lower the oracle speed in pulsar beam mode.
Mutalisk
Speed increased from 3.75 to 4. Acceleration stays at 3.5.
Phoenix
Range increased from 4 to 5. Upgrade still grants +2 range.
Hopefully we can find a role for the mutalisk; with phoenix being buffed, need to keep a close eye on muta and make sure it's not too hard-countered (by phoenix or even other units). Speed is a step in the right direction let's see if it's enough.
Dark Shrine
Cost is now 100/100, down from 100/250.
Good intentions but seems to do little in helping late game dt usage. At least dt tech won't be a huge economic burden anymore.
Everything else I'm pretty excited to check out!
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This .. is just .. AWSOME
Damn gotta love terran even more than before
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On December 06 2012 10:10 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On December 06 2012 10:08 Zealot Lord wrote:
I'm loving the big changes since its for a beta, but not liking the protoss ones at all lol =p
Void rays ability seems so.. unusable..? 1 minute cooldown for a +6 dmg against armor is just silly.
Oracle build time seems kinda long for a worker harass unit too imo~ On a voidray, which attacks as fast as a marine? Ask terrans how they would feel about an ability for +6 damage on a marine for 20 seconds.
Well considering its a T2 unit that costs 250/150 it better be better than a marine xD
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On December 06 2012 10:27 dw.Justify wrote:
I just post it again because the amount of new posts here is incredeble and all people just seem to love the patch because it brings alot of new features (ok there are some people that talk about the imbalance)
BUT THE IMBALANCE IS SO OBVIOUS (ok its just a beta but ... even here it scares me)
Yeah, it's just beta. It doesn't matter - as evidenced by this patch, there's still miles of flexibility left to go before we have anything to worry about.
On December 06 2012 10:27 dw.Justify wrote:
medivac changes are much too drastic that cant be the right way. The speed is so high even faster then mutaliscs with new speed ^^. And the healing will be so powerfull its a 60 % healting buff.
The speed is also a short term boost, to aid in drops, and help the medivac escape after full army engagements. It's short term, you can still pick off medivacs with mutas, or if you have enough skill root them with fungal. The heal increase requires an expensive upgrade, and will be a significant part of the late game, but won't be seen in the midgame where it would be "too powerful".
On December 06 2012 10:27 dw.Justify wrote:
Also terran mech is rly rly strong in hots vs P. Just tempest totally owns it but this will not be the case anymore with the new patch. And mech will now be even stronger espc when thor rly has no more energy
Mech is supposed to be really strong, and beat everything in a straight up engagement. You're supposed to run around it, abuse its mobility, etc. - it encourages a completely different playstyle from both players. And with thor's new change, they'll have to "seige" just like tanks. Contributes even more to immobility.
On December 06 2012 10:27 dw.Justify wrote:
I think most zerg changes are ok.
But muta speed... this is not rly necessary makes them just more annyoning but not better in fighting.
With the buffs to phoenix, the existence of the widow mine, and the prevalence of infestor play (and lack of muta play in the midgame) the buff keeps them beatable (just the opponent has to commit to one of those) but still viable as harass. If you're going to nerf the infestor, Zerg needs something to compensate.
On December 06 2012 10:27 dw.Justify wrote:
Im myself protoss, i think dt shrine is now too cheap but makes me anyway happy :-) dt pwnage but in caste of balance its prob also shit
Widow Mine.
On December 06 2012 10:27 dw.Justify wrote:
Tempest beeing tier 3 together with carrier and no more + dmg vs massive ground will make it never been played again so tempest is no more new unit.
and at the start of WoL, we thought broodlords would never be used. Tempests are still a great unit, and they do a Ton of damage vs. broodlords - they just don't answer everything, and you have to come up with some other way to respond to ultras too. Gives zerg options and forces P to play smart.
On December 06 2012 10:27 dw.Justify wrote:
Blizzard said themselv since toss has now tempest they dont need vortex anymore vs Broodlords. But tempest will not be build against broodlords i guess but time will tell (carriers are better in this case and they also dont rly work).
(tempest dps is 9 vs massive 18) carrier has 25 dps against everything carrier range is 8 first later 14 so its not a big difference between those 2 but im not sure. In every caste the medivac speed and heal is shit this is 4 sure.
There's something significant to be said about Burst damage vs continuous damage when talking about engagements. Carriers have significant design flaws other than their damage - that's not the reason they aren't used (it's the "hardness" of their counters, the expense, the build time, how fast interceptors die, the critical mass effect, the importance of upgrading them, etc.)
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On December 06 2012 10:31 larse wrote:
OK. Seeker missile is now single-targeted. Sigh. It's really yamato cannon. They need to change that again. I was wrong, it's worse than before.
your getting yamato on a cheaper unit that can build faster.....sounds good to me. I say remove yamato cannon and energy off of BC's and let them be the super tank unit they were born to be
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Do Tempest still get bonus damage vs Colossi (will they use their air attack)?
EDIT:
On December 06 2012 10:37 SuperYo1000 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 06 2012 10:31 larse wrote:
OK. Seeker missile is now single-targeted. Sigh. It's really yamato cannon. They need to change that again. I was wrong, it's worse than before. your getting yamato on a cheaper unit that can build faster.....sounds good to me. I say remove yamato cannon and energy off of BC's and let them be the super tank unit they were born to be
Yeah or maybe give them Defensive Matrix for themselves. So they can activate it so they tank even more damage.
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On December 06 2012 10:39 aklambda wrote:
Do Tempest still get bonus damage vs Colossi (will they use their air attack)?
yes.
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so widow mines no longer attack cloaked units , dt shrine cost down to 100/100 , o_O
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Well, someone was pissed off at Protoss thats for sure xD
Interesting changes overall. Can't wait to see what people will do with this!
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On December 06 2012 10:39 da_head wrote:Show nested quote +On December 06 2012 10:39 aklambda wrote:
Do Tempest still get bonus damage vs Colossi (will they use their air attack)? yes.
i really hope so, but i think we cant be sure of that 100%
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I've come to the conclusion that we should not be so critical of the weird things (like Seeker Missile and Vortex), as I think it's obvious they will definitely be tweaked/changed. They are probably just like place holder abilities, while they try to figure out what to make them into. I'm choosing to just see it as a "Sorry guys, we're not ready, but we have almost everything ready to test, so we'd like to let you try it out earlier than the holiday ETA we gave!"
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Holy shit, loving so many of these changes, can't wait to test them out.
Oh also, just in case no one else realizes, Ultras doing 35 base damage will absolutely RAPE marines... no more need for banes with those ultras lol.
Medivac changes will make Terran a little more forgiving for missing an EMP/snipe on HTs and infestors, which really is needed right now.
I think the raven change is very interesting, as 3 seconds is quite a lot of time. I think it's best use will be trapping units into only one escape path (such as mutas running out of your base), which will require a lot of forethought and strategy - should make for great games.
Armory change is going to make Air switches incredibly deadly in TvT (or any matchup for that matter).
DT change is going to make DT expands a regular occurance, imo, and will give Terran even more reason to get early ravens.
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Idk why blizzard is buffing medivac when bio drops are already too damn effective. Terran needs a higher tier late game unit. Not a buff on early/mid game where in terran is already the strongest.
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EPT
