|
On October 28 2012 13:22 SuperYo1000 wrote:you can still micro, just in slo mo.....and its not even that bad. Its basically taking a stim marine and unstimming him
Unstimming him? Quick, what's 50% of 3.375? It's more like, unstimming him and blowing one of his legs off. There's a huge disparity of movement crowd control abilities between the 3 races. Toss gets another one, Z the best, T has conc, the worst.
There is little mircoing out of %50 movement speed reduction. As a Protoss user, I presume, you should understand this when your stalkers are conc shelled. They more often then not, die, save for the few times T disengages or P fall back to reinforcements or has blink.
The only micro this creates is preemptive on the Terran's part, which again, is already lopsided between the three races.
|
On October 28 2012 13:54 LRObot wrote:Show nested quote +On October 28 2012 13:22 SuperYo1000 wrote:On October 28 2012 12:37 LRObot wrote:
More anti micro spells. Unbelievable. you can still micro, just in slo mo.....and its not even that bad. Its basically taking a stim marine and unstimming him Unstimming him? Quick, what's 50% of 3.375? It's more like, unstimming him and blowing one of his legs off. There's a huge disparity of movement crowd control abilities between the 3 races. Toss gets another one, Z the best, T has conc, the worst.
Hmm the fact that you quote conc as terran's crowd control abilities raises an eyebrow... I was thinking more siege tanks/widow mines?
|
Tanks as CC v P? Not really effective. Widows mines effectiveness, I'm still unsure of.
|
On October 28 2012 13:54 LRObot wrote:Show nested quote +On October 28 2012 13:22 SuperYo1000 wrote:On October 28 2012 12:37 LRObot wrote:
More anti micro spells. Unbelievable. you can still micro, just in slo mo.....and its not even that bad. Its basically taking a stim marine and unstimming him Unstimming him? Quick, what's 50% of 3.375? It's more like, unstimming him and blowing one of his legs off. There's a huge disparity of movement crowd control abilities between the 3 races. Toss gets another one, Z the best, T has conc, the worst. There is little mircoing out of %50 movement speed reduction. As a Protoss user, I presume, you should understand this when your stalkers are conc shelled. They more often then not, die, save for the few times T disengages or P fall back to reinforcements or has blink. The only micro this creates is preemptive on the Terran's part, which again, is already lopsided between the three races.
Timewarp only reduces movement speed not attack speed so the only real advantages in a battle are:
- if your troops outrange the enemy you can do more damage while they try to close in
- if the enemy flees you can slow him down and catch him
- to keep units under the effect of psi storm a bit longer
by itself it's much weaker and less extreme then force field. It's really more of a supportive spell.
Terran has an AoE that counters all spellcasters and basically all protoss units, that's pretty good. And the oracly is countered by vikings as well as by ghosts. So stop whining.
Plus terrans can heal their bio in mid battle and now the battlehellion is mechanical as well as bio - it is actually being healed by medivacs.
Terran may still need some tweaks, but the new abilities add a lot to the game and may help to get rid of the force field dependance for protoss.
|
On October 28 2012 14:08 mishimaBeef wrote:Show nested quote +On October 28 2012 13:54 LRObot wrote:On October 28 2012 13:22 SuperYo1000 wrote:On October 28 2012 12:37 LRObot wrote:
More anti micro spells. Unbelievable. you can still micro, just in slo mo.....and its not even that bad. Its basically taking a stim marine and unstimming him Unstimming him? Quick, what's 50% of 3.375? It's more like, unstimming him and blowing one of his legs off. There's a huge disparity of movement crowd control abilities between the 3 races. Toss gets another one, Z the best, T has conc, the worst. Hmm the fact that you quote conc as terran's crowd control abilities raises an eyebrow... I was thinking more siege tanks/widow mines?
Tanks and widow mines are AoE damage, not a CC. That would be like saying Colo and HTs are CC.
|
On October 28 2012 10:36 sagefreke wrote:Show nested quote +On October 28 2012 10:30 mishimaBeef wrote:On October 28 2012 10:19 sagefreke wrote:
Just played a ZvP against a player who utilized Orcales early game. Pulsar beam is retardedly powerful. I was worried about Time Warp but Pulsar Beam is just insane. Even when I put spores as AA near my base, 3-5 Oracles completely negates it and kill it so fast that they don't lose a single unit. Also the speed at which they destroy buildings is just too fast. Even with 3 queens on 2 bases he was still sniping spine crawlers, extractors, and even my Infestation pit before there was any realistic chance for me to react to it.
I expect Blizzard will tone down the damage. I managed to win but I feel it had more to do with the skill difference, since after looking at the replay he had supply blocked himself and was floating a ton of minerals. My fear is that in the late game, when there are 4-5 of these things floating around, they are going to completely wreck expansions unless a queen and an Infestor are camping each expansion because spores get completely nullified once there's 3 or more. hi, when there are 4-5 spores at an expansion do the oracles have enough energy to kill the spores and the hatchery? mind you, would the protoss lose 1-2 oracles while killing the spores? 4-5 spores is a bit excessive. That's 500 minerals minimum for AA only. What about spines for zealot runbys? That's another 400-500 minerals I have to invest to secure an expansion in the late game. This of course doesn't factor in the very real possibility that he can run in your base late game and snipe a greater spire in just seconds unless you have a full energy queen nearby just spamming transfuse. So are you saying the solution to 4-5 oracles running around the map would be to place 4+ spores at each base? That doesn't sound economical at all considering he could just not use pulsar beam at all and instead use all his energy for time warp in battles.
Fair trade to me considering how retardedly powerful BL/infestor is, even without swarm hosts in the mix.
|
On October 28 2012 14:12 Freeborn wrote:Show nested quote +On October 28 2012 13:54 LRObot wrote:On October 28 2012 13:22 SuperYo1000 wrote:On October 28 2012 12:37 LRObot wrote:
More anti micro spells. Unbelievable. you can still micro, just in slo mo.....and its not even that bad. Its basically taking a stim marine and unstimming him Unstimming him? Quick, what's 50% of 3.375? It's more like, unstimming him and blowing one of his legs off. There's a huge disparity of movement crowd control abilities between the 3 races. Toss gets another one, Z the best, T has conc, the worst. There is little mircoing out of %50 movement speed reduction. As a Protoss user, I presume, you should understand this when your stalkers are conc shelled. They more often then not, die, save for the few times T disengages or P fall back to reinforcements or has blink. The only micro this creates is preemptive on the Terran's part, which again, is already lopsided between the three races. Timewarp only reduces movement speed not attack speed so the only real advantages in a battle are: - if your troops outrange the enemy you can do more damage while they try to close in - if the enemy flees you can slow him down and catch him - to keep units under the effect of psi storm a bit longer by itself it's much weaker and less extreme then force field. It's really more of a supportive spell. Terran has an AoE that counters all spellcasters and basically all protoss units, that's pretty good. And the oracly is countered by vikings as well as by ghosts. So stop whining. Plus terrans can heal their bio in mid battle and now the battlehellion is mechanical as well as bio - it is actually being healed by medivacs. Terran may still need some tweaks, but the new abilities add a lot to the game and may help to get rid of the force field dependance for protoss.
Yeah, but the AoE is 3.5. Do you know how big of an area that is? Pre nerf EMP was 2 and it was deemed overpowered. You can't even pre split to avoid it since your units will have to be so far away from each other that you might as well be 2 separate forces. And we know how well 2 separate force do against one big deathball in SC2. I am all for splitting up the deathball. But if only one side has to do it, then that is an issue. Funny thing is that this doesn't help P against the deathball they fear most. The BL/ infestor....
|
On October 28 2012 14:12 Freeborn wrote:Show nested quote +On October 28 2012 13:54 LRObot wrote:On October 28 2012 13:22 SuperYo1000 wrote:On October 28 2012 12:37 LRObot wrote:
More anti micro spells. Unbelievable. you can still micro, just in slo mo.....and its not even that bad. Its basically taking a stim marine and unstimming him Unstimming him? Quick, what's 50% of 3.375? It's more like, unstimming him and blowing one of his legs off. There's a huge disparity of movement crowd control abilities between the 3 races. Toss gets another one, Z the best, T has conc, the worst. There is little mircoing out of %50 movement speed reduction. As a Protoss user, I presume, you should understand this when your stalkers are conc shelled. They more often then not, die, save for the few times T disengages or P fall back to reinforcements or has blink. The only micro this creates is preemptive on the Terran's part, which again, is already lopsided between the three races. Timewarp only reduces movement speed not attack speed so the only real advantages in a battle are: - if your troops outrange the enemy you can do more damage while they try to close in - if the enemy flees you can slow him down and catch him - to keep units under the effect of psi storm a bit longer by itself it's much weaker and less extreme then force field. It's really more of a supportive spell. Terran has an AoE that counters all spellcasters and basically all protoss units, that's pretty good. And the oracly is countered by vikings as well as by ghosts. So stop whining. Plus terrans can heal their bio in mid battle and now the battlehellion is mechanical as well as bio - it is actually being healed by medivacs. Terran may still need some tweaks, but the new abilities add a lot to the game and may help to get rid of the force field dependance for protoss.
Time warp doesn't lessen the dependence on forcefield one bit. Forcefields are DEPENDED on for early base defense. TW won't change that. Forcefields are DEPENDED on for timing attacks. TW won't change that, either. Everything in between, forcefields are just gravy.
|
I'm starting to think Blizzard is just lazy...
They have a relatively balanced game right now, so they don't want to work overtime to actually redesign the game's flaws.
Imagine taking out warpgate, forcefields (replaced by TW), deathballs, etc... A big job of rebalancing it all. They just don't want to get into that.
They want to make us believe they internally tested the custom army movement patterns, while we do know that if they really wanted to try it, they would have put it on a beta patch. Internally test? by whom? the same clowns who make the ladder maps? yeah ok.
|
ALL TERRAN PLAYERS ARE DOOMED.
|
On October 28 2012 14:20 vthree wrote:Show nested quote +On October 28 2012 14:12 Freeborn wrote:On October 28 2012 13:54 LRObot wrote:On October 28 2012 13:22 SuperYo1000 wrote:On October 28 2012 12:37 LRObot wrote:
More anti micro spells. Unbelievable. you can still micro, just in slo mo.....and its not even that bad. Its basically taking a stim marine and unstimming him Unstimming him? Quick, what's 50% of 3.375? It's more like, unstimming him and blowing one of his legs off. There's a huge disparity of movement crowd control abilities between the 3 races. Toss gets another one, Z the best, T has conc, the worst. There is little mircoing out of %50 movement speed reduction. As a Protoss user, I presume, you should understand this when your stalkers are conc shelled. They more often then not, die, save for the few times T disengages or P fall back to reinforcements or has blink. The only micro this creates is preemptive on the Terran's part, which again, is already lopsided between the three races. Timewarp only reduces movement speed not attack speed so the only real advantages in a battle are: - if your troops outrange the enemy you can do more damage while they try to close in - if the enemy flees you can slow him down and catch him - to keep units under the effect of psi storm a bit longer by itself it's much weaker and less extreme then force field. It's really more of a supportive spell. Terran has an AoE that counters all spellcasters and basically all protoss units, that's pretty good. And the oracly is countered by vikings as well as by ghosts. So stop whining. Plus terrans can heal their bio in mid battle and now the battlehellion is mechanical as well as bio - it is actually being healed by medivacs. Terran may still need some tweaks, but the new abilities add a lot to the game and may help to get rid of the force field dependance for protoss. Yeah, but the AoE is 3.5. Do you know how big of an area that is? Pre nerf EMP was 2 and it was deemed overpowered. You can't even pre split to avoid it since your units will have to be so far away from each other that you might as well be 2 separate forces. And we know how well 2 separate force do against one big deathball in SC2. I am all for splitting up the deathball. But if only one side has to do it, then that is an issue. Funny thing is that this doesn't help P against the deathball they fear most. The BL/ infestor....
Time Warp does help ... if you use it to zone out the supporting Infestors (cast it on the Broodlord target area and withdraw a bit) and you also are able to run away from the Broodlings a bit easier. Void Rays as anti-Broodlord force could pull the Infestors to one side and then you "trap them" with a Time Warp and blink in with your Stalkers.
The thing is that Time Warp should have helped you A LOT before the Broodlords are out and that is giving you an edge already.
|
On October 28 2012 15:58 Patate wrote:
I'm starting to think Blizzard is just lazy...
They have a relatively balanced game right now, so they don't want to work overtime to actually redesign the game's flaws.
Imagine taking out warpgate, forcefields (replaced by TW), deathballs, etc... A big job of rebalancing it all. They just don't want to get into that.
They want to make us believe they internally tested the custom army movement patterns, while we do know that if they really wanted to try it, they would have put it on a beta patch. Internally test? by whom? the same clowns who make the ladder maps? yeah ok.
The devs not working overtime to redesign their entire game for an expansion is considered lazy now? Do you regularly work extra shifts to change what you don't consider broken, as Blizzard's stated about warp gates and force fields?
|
On October 28 2012 18:04 mongoose22 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 28 2012 15:58 Patate wrote:
I'm starting to think Blizzard is just lazy...
They have a relatively balanced game right now, so they don't want to work overtime to actually redesign the game's flaws.
Imagine taking out warpgate, forcefields (replaced by TW), deathballs, etc... A big job of rebalancing it all. They just don't want to get into that.
They want to make us believe they internally tested the custom army movement patterns, while we do know that if they really wanted to try it, they would have put it on a beta patch. Internally test? by whom? the same clowns who make the ladder maps? yeah ok. The devs not working overtime to redesign their entire game for an expansion is considered lazy now? Do you regularly work extra shifts to change what you don't consider broken, as Blizzard's stated about warp gates and force fields?
Well yes sometimes I do work overtime to meet requirements for new standards that we put into place. As for the devs, they just don't feel the situation is urgent, yet it has never been as much.
|
On October 28 2012 13:22 SuperYo1000 wrote:you can still micro, just in slo mo.....and its not even that bad. Its basically taking a stim marine and unstimming him
It does more. A stimmed marine has 50% more speed, so it has 150% speed. The time warp spell reduces speed by 50%, but now 150% is the new 100% so the speed gets reduced to 75%, which is below the 100% of an unstimmed marine.
|
On October 28 2012 15:58 Patate wrote:
I'm starting to think Blizzard is just lazy... Just because you don't know how hard the team works does not mean they are lazy. It just means that you are not well informed.
On October 28 2012 15:58 Patate wrote:They have a relatively balanced game right now, so they don't want to work overtime to actually redesign the game's flaws.
Imagine taking out warpgate, forcefields (replaced by TW), deathballs, etc... A big job of rebalancing it all. They just don't want to get into that.
They want to make us believe they internally tested the custom army movement patterns, while we do know that if they really wanted to try it, they would have put it on a beta patch. Internally test? by whom? the same clowns who make the ladder maps? yeah ok. They did a lot of things, but concepts like the shredder or replicator didn't work out. They don't want to get rid of warpgates because this production method sets Protoss apart from Terran. It's a game design decision, not a balance decision. Deathballs are even wanted to a certain degree. Forcefields seems to continue to be problematic but you cannot have a game which is both exciting and has no problematic mechanics. They already cut a lot of things which didn't work out, they obviously keep the things which are a bit problematic to have not to cut everything in the end.
If you call Blizzard developers "clowns" while you own postings is stuffed with ignorance, I don't know what else to say. Maybe you could apply for a job and show the 'clowns' how it's done right?
|
Does Timewarp affect ALL Units or only enemy Units?
In Patchnotes it seems clear but i heard from some Players that it does not affect your own Units.
So what is right?
|
On October 28 2012 18:36 [F_]aths wrote:Show nested quote +On October 28 2012 15:58 Patate wrote:
I'm starting to think Blizzard is just lazy... Just because you don't know how hard the team works does not mean they are lazy. It just means that you are not well informed.
Sorry, but this is kinda blind "Blizzard is great and you dont know how they work" is nonsensical propaganda, because most of the ideas which have come from Blizzard for the expansion so far have been downgrades (Reaper), completely absurd (Warhound, Time Warp, Widow Mine, ...) or simply either OP or useless in the concept of SC2 (Tempest, Swarm Host). In any case they didnt do anything about the suggestions of the community and simply tested some movement adjustment modification for five minutes and declared it useless (or rather unnecessary).
They totally fail to see the problems of the game and this is either from being too lazy to see it/do anything about it OR from being incapable of seeing it. Patate just chose the more polite one here, but the truth is that suggestions and problems have been made for months without them acknowledging the problems or even trying the solutions in earnest. They claim to be trying to make mech viable, but the only thing they came up with is yet another stupid unit which doesnt really work well together with the core unit of that type: the Siege Tank. Keep on defending Dustin and his bunch of bumbling fools, the problems are defined by now and the suggestions are there to get rid of them and the best ones dont involve any new units at all. So either they have too many holy cows OR they are too lazy to do it.
The most important part about it isnt actually DOING IT, but rather THINKING IT THROUGH and it is here where they seem to be lacking and it shows in their very very wildly different iterations of the units for HotS.
|
The speed of Burrow Charge has been increased from 2.25 to 3.75.
Holy shit, that's FAST.
|
I love Time Warp - I've been discussing an ability like that with friends for a while now. Casting that on a mineral/gas line should effectively slow down mining of both resources by 50%, right?
I'm not sure about the Pulsar Beam - it seems it will overlap too much with the Void Ray (at least in lower leagues).
And I still think the Tempest is a unit without a clear role: it does nothing that the Void Ray or the Carrier wouldn't be able to do if they just fixed those two units. Honestly, Protoss doesn't need three new units: the MSC is really starting to get there (I LOVE the detection ability so Protoss don't HAVE to go Robo just to get mobile detection) and the Oracle is finally showing real promise.
On a different note, I think Blizzard is finally handling things right: Zerg seemed pretty finished a while ago with the Viper and Swarm Host as the new units and they seem to be in tweak mode now. I hope Blizzard will now take the time to develop Protoss until that's close to finished and THEN start working on Terran to see, given the new things P & Z can do, what Terran needs.
|
Russian Federation4295 Posts
On October 28 2012 19:51 Grummler wrote:Holy shit, that's FAST.
It can be TWarped too.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
