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On October 27 2012 08:08 Necro)Phagist( wrote:Show nested quote +On October 27 2012 08:05 SarcasmMonster wrote:On October 27 2012 08:03 GARcher wrote:On October 27 2012 08:02 Audemed wrote:
Changed "Purify" to "Photon Overcharge"? Worst MSCore change thus far. You get mobile detection before robo now. 2 port banshee pretty much gets shut down. Any cloak openers is pretty much dead with Spore/M-Core/Widow Mine. Please... in BW players opened with DT's against zerg when every damn overlord gave detection.... you just have to find ways around it(In BW it was corsair to chase down ovies etc.)
There isn't any unit in SC2 that's as good as the Corsair at taking down/scaring away detection 
I'll be happy to be wrong.
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The new oracle ability is just silly, at what point do you ever get the chance to park an extremely low hp unit near a structure for long enough to kill it with 25 dps? Entomb was an interesting and useful harassment method, "pulsar beam" is not.
"1. The Oracle was a unit that didn’t allow players to show much differentiation in skill. Entomb was its main spell, and it made little difference whether it was a Silver or Master level player casting this ability."
Does anybody legitimately agree with this line of thinking? There's plenty of non-challenging abilities in the game, and any spell that is going to be used to harass workers will not require skill. There's no way you can make a spell that will be used against almost stationary targets "skillful" it just doesn't make sense.
Also, in what way is pulsar beam more skillful than entomb? Yes, you have to pull back your oracle, however now all your opponent has to do is leave two marines in their base and it makes this unit useless for harassment, which defeats the notion that the oracle will stop players from wanting to deathball.
2. Entomb wasn’t a fun spectator spell because there were no varying degrees of success; it was either cast or not cast.
Any spell that blocks economy without damage isn't "fun" to watch. Yes it doesn't kill things, maybe the less cerebral of the audience can get over it and enjoy the mass storms and forcefields protosses will use to win games afterward. Not every element of starcraft is supposed to be exciting to uneducated watchers.
3. The Oracle didn’t add much to the army when it was done harassing the enemy’s base.
I just... This was the entire idea of the unit, as blizzard preached it before. Literally their purpose in creating this unit was to counter-act death balls, by pulling food away from the main army. If you want non-deathball style play, you have to make units that aren't good in mass numbers, which is a lot harder in the starcraft 2 engine than it was in broodwar.
It is extremely obvious that when you take away a units harassment ability, and give it something that is stronger against large groups (ie AoE CC/Zoning abilities) then it will contribute to the deathball syndrome.
I would rather have a nerfed version of the warhound in the game, and have entomb than "pulsar beam".
As a protoss I can also say that timewarp will end up being a bad thing as well in all likelyhood. The game was balanced around force-fields which has made protoss gimmicky enough already imo, We don't need another zoning ability, we need zoning units (collossus =/= reaver).
We need harassment and meaty units other than zealots.
/rant
*edit for clarity*
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On October 27 2012 07:34 eviltomahawk wrote:
Just went in-game and found out that the Time Warp has a whopping 30 second duration in addition to it's relatively wide radius.
Two Time Warp bubbles covers a very large area of a mineral field.
And 6 Oracles with Pulsar Beam kills buildings REALLY fast.
Ugh..
So an Oracle can just Time warp your mineral line and you're mining at 50% the speed for 30s and you have NO counter play ?
That's even worse than Entomb TT
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wow, the polls say we like ALL the changes.
good for blizzard, then.
personally, i dont like the spine crawler changes, but i dont play zerg so i guess thats ok
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Well it literally took me one game to see how broken Protoss is now.
The M-Core early harass was just perfect, just enough to be annoying and do a little damage to a player playing stupidly but not broken.
Now you scout a 1-basing Protoss as Terran, and if you prepare for a typical 4-gate, you'll die when he attacks your main with 2-3 oracles while still pressuring the front with a handful of stalkers. You can ward off one of the attacks but not both. I'm not a pro but I just had a silver protoss do this and I don't really see how you defend it.
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Oh wow, this spine change is nice, you can actually wall off as zerg now.
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The new oracle ability that slows ground units affect your own units too?
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On October 27 2012 08:12 neversleeping wrote:
Well it literally took me one game to see how broken Protoss is now.
The M-Core early harass was just perfect, just enough to be annoying and do a little damage to a player playing stupidly but not broken.
Now you scout a 1-basing Protoss as Terran, and if you prepare for a typical 4-gate, you'll die when he attacks your main with 2-3 oracles while still pressuring the front with a handful of stalkers. You can ward off one of the attacks but not both. I'm not a pro but I just had a silver protoss do this and I don't really see how you defend it.
Oh noez an attack at the front AND in your base? How could a player handle such a thing? Seriously, my heart goes out to you man.
But actually, scan and split your army. Maybe build a bunker? 2 marines can shoo oracles away. Next time there are marines at my front and widow mines in my mineral line, I'll think of you and chuckle.
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White-Ra is really using the new time-warp like a entomb...has anybody done the math to know how much of an effect half speed workers at 60 seconds has on mineral production?
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On October 27 2012 08:10 Noocta wrote:Show nested quote +On October 27 2012 07:34 eviltomahawk wrote:
Just went in-game and found out that the Time Warp has a whopping 30 second duration in addition to it's relatively wide radius.
Two Time Warp bubbles covers a very large area of a mineral field.
And 6 Oracles with Pulsar Beam kills buildings REALLY fast. Ugh.. So an Oracle can just Time warp your mineral line and you're mining at 50% the speed for 30s and you have NO counter play ? That's even worse than Entomb TT
Assuming that a decently saturated base mines 800 minerals per minute, I think a couple of Time Warps covering an entire mineral line should deny 200 minerals over 30 seconds, since I'm assuming that the 50% slow effect puts a 50% reduction in mineral income on what I assume is normally 400 minerals per 30 seconds. I could be wrong. Testing needs to be done.
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On October 27 2012 08:21 Fungal Growth wrote:
White-Ra is really using the new time-warp like a entomb...has anybody done the math to know how much of an effect half speed workers at 60 seconds has on mineral production?
A worker mines at 40 minerals per second assuming saturation. So probably half of that.
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On October 27 2012 08:21 Fungal Growth wrote:
White-Ra is really using the new time-warp like a entomb...has anybody done the math to know how much of an effect half speed workers at 60 seconds has on mineral production?
Not sure. One difference I'm noticing is that the Oracle needs to be really close to cast it. I think static defense is much better at scaring away the Oracle now.
Edit: I think my observation might wrong... now that I've seen Whitera just cast it again.
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On October 27 2012 08:22 SarcasmMonster wrote:Show nested quote +On October 27 2012 08:21 Fungal Growth wrote:
White-Ra is really using the new time-warp like a entomb...has anybody done the math to know how much of an effect half speed workers at 60 seconds has on mineral production? Not sure. One difference I'm noticing is that the Oracle needs to be really close to cast it. I think static defense is much better at scaring away the Oracle now.
But.. the range is 9 oO
And half your income on one base for 30s is pretty brutal imo
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Between FF and Timewarp that should effectively remove the one thing that helps Terran against the typical Protoss deathball and that is splitting marines to help dodge all the AoE. In the right hands FF and TW with Colossus and HT's should pretty much eliminate bio play against a protoss deathball. And well, mech is still sort of a joke against Protoss.
So all in all, I think the patch is just glorious.
I hate to be sarcastic, because I know Blizzard has a very specific process they follow and they will fix it in the end, but geezzusss... *rolling eyes*
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On October 27 2012 08:21 eviltomahawk wrote:Show nested quote +On October 27 2012 08:10 Noocta wrote:On October 27 2012 07:34 eviltomahawk wrote:
Just went in-game and found out that the Time Warp has a whopping 30 second duration in addition to it's relatively wide radius.
Two Time Warp bubbles covers a very large area of a mineral field.
And 6 Oracles with Pulsar Beam kills buildings REALLY fast. Ugh.. So an Oracle can just Time warp your mineral line and you're mining at 50% the speed for 30s and you have NO counter play ? That's even worse than Entomb TT Assuming that a decently saturated base mines 800 minerals per minute, I think a couple of Time Warps covering an entire mineral line should deny 200 minerals over 30 seconds, since I'm assuming that the 50% slow effect puts a 50% reduction in mineral income on what I assume is normally 400 minerals per 30 seconds. I could be wrong. Testing needs to be done.
Well it doesn't really put a direct 50% lose on mining time, becuase the worker does spend some time actually mining the minerals which timewarp doesn't slow down(Only slows it walking to and from the mineral patch)
Still it's obviously going to need some little tweaks here and there.
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On October 27 2012 08:23 Noocta wrote:Show nested quote +On October 27 2012 08:22 SarcasmMonster wrote:On October 27 2012 08:21 Fungal Growth wrote:
White-Ra is really using the new time-warp like a entomb...has anybody done the math to know how much of an effect half speed workers at 60 seconds has on mineral production? Not sure. One difference I'm noticing is that the Oracle needs to be really close to cast it. I think static defense is much better at scaring away the Oracle now. But.. the range is 9 oO
Sorry, I just saw Whitera cast it and he ended up getting shot down by Marines guarding the minerals O_O
I guess he moved command and I was tricked.
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On October 27 2012 06:31 felisconcolori wrote:
I like the changes. However, I would also like it if any unit caught in the Time Warp field, if given the /dance command, proceeds to jump the left, then step to the right, prior to bringing its knees in tight and then doing a pelvic thrust.
+5 points if you understand why.
Why not have the units bring their hands to their hips? Seems like you missed something there...
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On October 27 2012 08:23 Necro)Phagist( wrote:Show nested quote +On October 27 2012 08:21 eviltomahawk wrote:On October 27 2012 08:10 Noocta wrote:On October 27 2012 07:34 eviltomahawk wrote:
Just went in-game and found out that the Time Warp has a whopping 30 second duration in addition to it's relatively wide radius.
Two Time Warp bubbles covers a very large area of a mineral field.
And 6 Oracles with Pulsar Beam kills buildings REALLY fast. Ugh.. So an Oracle can just Time warp your mineral line and you're mining at 50% the speed for 30s and you have NO counter play ? That's even worse than Entomb TT Assuming that a decently saturated base mines 800 minerals per minute, I think a couple of Time Warps covering an entire mineral line should deny 200 minerals over 30 seconds, since I'm assuming that the 50% slow effect puts a 50% reduction in mineral income on what I assume is normally 400 minerals per 30 seconds. I could be wrong. Testing needs to be done. Well it doesn't really put a direct 50% lose on mining time, becuase the worker does spend some time actually mining the minerals which timewarp doesn't slow down(Only slows it walking to and from the mineral patch) Still it's obviously going to need some little tweaks here and there.
That's true. I forgot to factor that into the equation.
I like the 30 second duration, though I'm wary of the large area of effect. I like how it can be used to annoy mineral lines, yet it can also be used in a multitude of other purposes, which already makes it better than Entomb.
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On October 27 2012 08:29 ShowTheLights wrote:
Is this patch up yet?
Yes.
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EPT
