EPTBy making it in an upgrade it comes too late for making 1/1/1 too strong. And if the bonus damage only applies to shields it does not affect the other matchups.
TvP Mech still not viable? - Page 13
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MockHamill
Sweden1798 Posts
By making it in an upgrade it comes too late for making 1/1/1 too strong. And if the bonus damage only applies to shields it does not affect the other matchups. | ||
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Solarist
291 Posts
On October 31 2012 02:37 Phoenix2003 wrote: Mech is fine. So what that you can't go pure factory against gate/robo/stargate comps anymore? Cry me a river. Oh, wait. You already are. You say that mech is fine, and then that it doesent work against gateway/robo or stargate. I've seen alot of stupid shit postet on TL but you get atleast top 3 xD | ||
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Phoenix2003
126 Posts
User was temp banned for this post. | ||
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fireforce7
United States334 Posts
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link0
United States1071 Posts
On October 31 2012 02:59 MockHamill wrote: I think the solution for making mech viable in TvP is quite simple. Just give Tanks an upgrade for 10 bonus damage against shields. By making it in an upgrade it comes too late for making 1/1/1 too strong. And if the bonus damage only applies to shields it does not affect the other matchups. If this upgrades the damage against Hardened Shields, then it may work. Also, battle hellions need to be reverted back to full mechanical, not bio. Archons are just way too hard of a counter. | ||
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Hattori_Hanzo
Singapore1229 Posts
On October 31 2012 05:42 link0 wrote: If this upgrades the damage against Hardened Shields, then it may work. Also, battle hellions need to be reverted back to full mechanical, not bio. Archons are just way too hard of a counter. And counter to Archons is 5 ghosts. | ||
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CYFAWS
Sweden275 Posts
On October 29 2012 09:00 InoyouS2 wrote: There was no reason for it to be reverted other than to nerf it against Protoss. If I recall at that time thor all-ins were very common against Protoss players, I think that is the only reason why they nerfed it to the point of being unusable vs Protoss. How short memories does people here have? without energy bars, mass thor is UNSTOPPABLE tvp. you don't even have to use the strike cannons on the immortals, but if you want to add pain to injury, you can. One volley from your hellion cloud kills all zealots and removes most hardened shields. one early defensive raven into mass thor with spare minerals to hellions (and vikings corresponding to colossus amount) a-moves through any possible protoss army. | ||
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Resistentialism
Canada688 Posts
It could certainly be looked at again. | ||
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link0
United States1071 Posts
On October 31 2012 23:29 CYFAWS wrote: How short memories does people here have? without energy bars, mass thor is UNSTOPPABLE tvp. you don't even have to use the strike cannons on the immortals, but if you want to add pain to injury, you can. One volley from your hellion cloud kills all zealots and removes most hardened shields. one early defensive raven into mass thor with spare minerals to hellions (and vikings corresponding to colossus amount) a-moves through any possible protoss army. It was nowhere near unstoppable. Thors cost 2x as much gas as an immortal. Immortals also only had 5 range back when Thors didn't have energy bars. | ||
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link0
United States1071 Posts
The problem is that 5 ghosts cost as much as 5 immortals. Do you really want to have 5 more immortals against your mech army? EMP's AOE is way too small to be effective against archons/immortals, which are very bulky units that rarely clump. | ||
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Markwerf
Netherlands3728 Posts
On October 31 2012 05:42 link0 wrote: If this upgrades the damage against Hardened Shields, then it may work. Also, battle hellions need to be reverted back to full mechanical, not bio. Archons are just way too hard of a counter. battle hellions being bio doesn't really make mech weaker against toss. It makes archons do a bit more damage but also makes medivacs much better. Overall those even out I think and hellbats being bio makes them more interesting in other matchups really by promoting drop play with mech. Hellbats just being mechanical means your medivacs are just expensive slow drop ships in TvZ and TvT which is not fun. | ||
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Sapphire.lux
Romania2620 Posts
On November 01 2012 05:14 Markwerf wrote: battle hellions being bio doesn't really make mech weaker against toss. It makes archons do a bit more damage but also makes medivacs much better. Overall those even out I think and hellbats being bio makes them more interesting in other matchups really by promoting drop play with mech. Hellbats just being mechanical means your medivacs are just expensive slow drop ships in TvZ and TvT which is not fun. How much mech did you play in TvP? Do you know how small a mech army really is, when you need Ghosts, Vikings, maybe some Banshees, and mines (in HOTS) just to act as support for the core of Hellion/Tank? Having to add Medivacs to the comp ("to even out the extra dmg done by Archons") is a BIG problem both in early-mid game coz of gas cost and in late game coz of supply. Any Terran from Bronze to Pro that plays mech will tell you this. | ||
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link0
United States1071 Posts
On November 01 2012 05:14 Markwerf wrote: battle hellions being bio doesn't really make mech weaker against toss. It makes archons do a bit more damage but also makes medivacs much better. Overall those even out I think and hellbats being bio makes them more interesting in other matchups really by promoting drop play with mech. Hellbats just being mechanical means your medivacs are just expensive slow drop ships in TvZ and TvT which is not fun. Errr, medivacs heal hellions EXTREMELY slowly, and are utterly worthless in a big battle. Hellions are throwaway units in Mech-play. Why would anyone spend 100 gas to slowly heal some hellions? ALL gas needs to be diverted to Tanks and Ghosts. Because of the Bio tag, Archons kill them 2x as fast now, and WAY outpaces any healing from medivacs. | ||
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iKill
Denmark861 Posts
On November 04 2012 06:03 link0 wrote: Errr, medivacs heal hellions EXTREMELY slowly, and are utterly worthless in a big battle. Hellions are throwaway units in Mech-play. Why would anyone spend 100 gas to slowly heal some hellions? ALL gas needs to be diverted to Tanks and Ghosts. Because of the Bio tag, Archons kill them 2x as fast now, and WAY outpaces any healing from medivacs. idd. typically in mech tvt you get 1-2 medivacs for drops, and even that is risky because you take away production time from vikings which means you might lose air dominance in tvp vikings are even more important due to mechs weakness vs tempests + colossi. | ||
iHirO
United Kingdom1381 Posts
Hallucinated Collossus and Archons can both survive 2 hits from Widow Mine shots (Hallucinated Immortals can only take 1 as it bypasses the hardened shield), meaning that they are a really cost effective and low APM way of clearing mine fields. Basically it will be harder to go mech vs Protoss. | ||
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GARcher
Canada294 Posts
On November 01 2012 05:08 link0 wrote: The problem is that 5 ghosts cost as much as 5 immortals. Do you really want to have 5 more immortals against your mech army? EMP's AOE is way too small to be effective against archons/immortals, which are very bulky units that rarely clump. Just ignore that guy. He thinks building an orbital farm in bio TvP is viable. | ||
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Hider
Denmark9404 Posts
On November 01 2012 05:06 link0 wrote: It was nowhere near unstoppable. Thors cost 2x as much gas as an immortal. Immortals also only had 5 range back when Thors didn't have energy bars. Well but even back then toss'es didn't mass immortals vs mass thors. THey would have like 5 immortals vs 12 thors. Also VR's mixed with gateway units > thors. | ||
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Resistentialism
Canada688 Posts
The problem was early thor timings, pre-colossus range/pre-storm, with marines, scvs and maybe banshees or a raven. | ||
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GARcher
Canada294 Posts
On November 06 2012 08:19 Hider wrote: Well but even back then toss'es didn't mass immortals vs mass thors. THey would have like 5 immortals vs 12 thors. Also VR's mixed with gateway units > thors. It was changed because 250mm cannons can hit through Immortal hardened shields. And the cooldown is just enough time for an Immortal to spawn so Thor SCV all ins were extremely overpowered. | ||
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Yoshi Kirishima
United States10357 Posts
On November 01 2012 05:08 link0 wrote: The problem is that 5 ghosts cost as much as 5 immortals. Do you really want to have 5 more immortals against your mech army? EMP's AOE is way too small to be effective against archons/immortals, which are very bulky units that rarely clump. They are effective, just not early on. Mid game is OK sometimes (third base), late game they rape, because you should have like 160 supply army vs his 130 supply army, and because you have much more minerals to make walls and such, so that ur tanks can rape the immortals very fast. That's for immortals I mean. It still works somewhat for archons, but not well. For that, Thor/Hellion heavy army rapes. Unless if it's late game where your army supply is much bigger, where it's ok to still get ghosts since you will have more supply to keep enough tanks. | ||
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