EPTWoL is at the point where on a daily basis people say that if you don't fast expand you are all-in, or if you make any attacks before you have 3 bases you are all-in. This mentality makes for boring max vs max games. I hope the changes to HoTS can force us to delay our natural and then our 3rd a little for safety and encourage more harassment and skirmishes.
Widow Mines - Page 3
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DeCoup
Australia1933 Posts
WoL is at the point where on a daily basis people say that if you don't fast expand you are all-in, or if you make any attacks before you have 3 bases you are all-in. This mentality makes for boring max vs max games. I hope the changes to HoTS can force us to delay our natural and then our 3rd a little for safety and encourage more harassment and skirmishes. | ||
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HardlyNever
United States1258 Posts
Until then, just prepare for it. Almost every terran I play now is trying to abuse it in some way (which is probably good for the game long-term), and if you know it is coming it isn't that hard to deal with. | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland25322 Posts
Anyway I think Blizz have somewhat given themselves a lot of problems with HoTS by insisting that everything they add has to be a 'unit'. The Mothership Core and Widow Mine are being changed over and over again by virtue of this. If the MSC was in its previous form, tethered to a nexus it would be easier to balance it without taking lots of abuse possibilites into account (i.e early close air MS recall all-ins). That said, it is good that the Widow mine isn't trash, and that people are using it. It has been seen time and time again that giving a race something abuseably powerful in Beta is conducive to good testing, given that they actually use it and you can tone it downwards from there. Contrast this with the oracles/tempests in early builds, or even phase shield, which, while not terrible just didn't see much use and got scrapped  | ||
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Fig
United States1324 Posts
On October 08 2012 10:52 Wombat_NI wrote: I didn't realise you couldn't snipe the things before they exploded? I mean, without wishing to harp on about BW, Spidermines functioned pretty well, they had a little burrow time where you could snipe them, and you could abuse their AI to drag them in. I do quite like the widowmine ideas, just need a bit of refinement. There is no way they should automatically wipe out cloaked units though, especially given that Protoss scouting is extremely reliant on observers. Anyway I think Blizz have somewhat given themselves a lot of problems with HoTS by insisting that everything they add has to be a 'unit'. The Mothership Core and Widow Mine are being changed over and over again by virtue of this. If the MSC was in its previous form, tethered to a nexus it would be easier to balance it without taking lots of abuse possibilites into account (i.e early close air MS recall all-ins). That said, it is good that the Widow mine isn't trash, and that people are using it. It has been seen time and time again that giving a race something abuseably powerful in Beta is conducive to good testing, given that they actually use it and you can tone it downwards from there. Contrast this with the oracles/tempests in early builds, or even phase shield, which, while not terrible just didn't see much use and got scrapped Or even the new mineral siphon ability... How can they make the widow mine stupidly powerful and make the oracle spell so bad it's not even funny? It doesn't help anyone (testers or Blizzard) to add an ability that's only worth it in .01% of cases. They will get no feedback because no one wants to use that crap. | ||
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BlazeFury01
United States1460 Posts
On October 08 2012 04:58 Inquisitor1323 wrote: This change is relatively recent so you can't call it OP before people have had time to adapt. Edited. | ||
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Crawdad
614 Posts
On October 08 2012 11:17 Fig wrote: Or even the new mineral siphon ability... How can they make the widow mine stupidly powerful and make the oracle spell so bad it's not even funny? It doesn't help anyone (testers or Blizzard) to add an ability that's only worth it in .01% of cases. They will get no feedback because no one wants to use that crap. Which is exactly why it's gonna get tossed out next week. | ||
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BlazeFury01
United States1460 Posts
On October 08 2012 05:02 GinDo wrote: Here's a fix. When the Widow Mine Shots it's missle, it reveals itself for a short while, Giving the Protoss a quick second to be able to disable the mine without the need for detection. However, Protoss have to have lightning reflexes in order to do so. Much like how Protoss would eliminate Spiders pre-Obs in BW. Mines were free in BW they cost in SC2. They're no different then baneling bombs. So, I don't understand why your proposing such a silly idea. | ||
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DeCoup
Australia1933 Posts
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BadAssJ
United States136 Posts
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Crawdad
614 Posts
On October 08 2012 03:16 TennesseeNA wrote:I still think the Oracle is fairly useless (mainly because of the necessity of detection in both PvT and PvZ right now) If detection is a necessity, how is the Oracle useless? O_o | ||
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Zaurus
Singapore676 Posts
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DaveVAH
Canada162 Posts
On October 08 2012 12:15 Zaurus wrote: Just make them appear before impact. So they can be Sniped. This makes them weak alone but strong when used together with tank support! That already happens. they are revealed for 1-1.5 seconds when shooting their payload just like bw spider mines. Just goes to show how little folks know about the new game mechanics and are still crying OP. first know the facts please. | ||
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leova
266 Posts
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Zaurus
Singapore676 Posts
On October 08 2012 12:31 DaveVAH wrote: That already happens. they are revealed for 1-1.5 seconds when shooting their payload just like bw spider mines. Just goes to show how little folks know about the new game mechanics and are still crying OP. first know the facts please. Check if they can be sniped first before posting a reply?? | ||
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DaveVAH
Canada162 Posts
On October 08 2012 13:10 Zaurus wrote: Check if they can be sniped first before posting a reply?? if they can be seen they can be sniped. | ||
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s3rp
Germany3192 Posts
On October 08 2012 12:31 DaveVAH wrote: That already happens. they are revealed for 1-1.5 seconds when shooting their payload just like bw spider mines. Just goes to show how little folks know about the new game mechanics and are still crying OP. first know the facts please. THIS you can if you don't blindly move your units forward actually move back with them before the mine hits ( not even that hard done it with Banshees , Reapers , Helions before ). You just have to see it and react fast enough. Hell you can even kill it if you have enough stuff in range before it's shooting. | ||
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avilo
United States4100 Posts
You now have to pay attention to your units, watch your observer, and be...careful. The widow mine is doing exactly what blizzard wanted and fans wanted - break up the deathball, make the game have more depth. http://drop.sc/262471 There is a replay of me playing protoss defending against a proxy factory widow mine shinanigan. Notice pylon walls. Notice I don't 1A stalkers into widow mines and then complain like a lot of people are when they are losing units for no reason. Also notice the amount of observers I built. It will become standard for protoss to build at least 3 observers (should have been doing that already). But going up to 5-6 I can see being much more common as well. | ||
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Zergrusher
United States562 Posts
Use units that have a higher range then 5 to pick them off! Really simple, and/or use cheap units to pre-launch the mines, that way you can clean them up. Also Remember All detectors in SC2 have a detection range of 11 | ||
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TheLunatic
309 Posts
On October 08 2012 11:25 Crawdad wrote: Which is exactly why it's gonna get tossed out next week. What should it be replaced with? | ||
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Zergrusher
United States562 Posts
better question is that is crawdad a blizzard employee? | ||
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