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On October 06 2012 07:48 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On October 06 2012 07:44 s3rp wrote:
IF you can't turn off Widow mine autocast this is not really useful to be perfectly honest . Especially if it auto targets summons and halluzination . Especially with the reduced splash again.
I mean it basically kills 1 unit every 40 second and then is useless for 40 seconds. It keeps you safe from Banshees in TvT without needing an ebay but other than that ? I don't see any real potential here to be frank. Heaven forbid the cloaked, autocasting, auto detecting, range 5 aoe unit that does an AOE that would auto kill a zergling has a flaw. Also teir 2 unit.
It's basically the first version of the Mine now without it dieng after 1 Hit but rearming for whopping 40 seconds. The first version was totally useless i don't see how it shooting every 40 seconds makes it any better ...
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On October 06 2012 07:48 KrazyTrumpet wrote:
Also, what was wrong with having the core have to attach to the Nexus? That was an interesting tactical choice that had to be made, but now you can cast Purify to cover your tracks as you move out with your core and still warp home if you get into trouble.
You could just focus fire the MS Core and kill it easily. Now you have to kill the Nexus.
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Something about the widow mine changes i don't like is that there isn't a pause between missile launch that allows you to try to micro to mitigate damage. With the old widow mine you could try and separate the units with the widow mine on them. Also, Why can it attack cloak units if it can't see them...doesn't make much sense. And if it can see them why doesn't it reveal the cloaked unit? One of the two have to happen and I'd prefer it to be the former.
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United Kingdom12024 Posts
I really dislike the fact they removed phase shield. It finally gave toss a decent anti-anti micro spell.
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Plus the new Oracle ability is just USELESS in the whole PvZ match-up because of the queen.
Blizzard did a great job at returning the ZvP to his previous state while making a useless spell that won't get casted for more than 2s.
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To everyone talking about the lack of micro associated with the widow mine you are still going to want to manually target with it because they now will auto attack free units like locusts and infested terran. Plus if you are wanting to use them the most effectivley you will still want to manually target them because 5 lings reveal your whole flank defense they are totally defenseless for 40 seconds. It sounds like it will make for some interesting decisions. Do I take out that pack of Lings/chargelot with my mine or do I wait for some thing more expensive and send part of my army home?
Edit: ok I just re read the notes that is kinda dumb. What does it mean you can turn it off while unburrowed? If I turn off auto cast and burrow it does it stay off?
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On October 06 2012 07:54 RoyMadman wrote:
To everyone talking about the lack of micro associated with the widow mine you are still going to want to manually target with it because they now will auto attack free units like locusts and infested terran. Plus if you are wanting to use them the most effectivley you will still want to manually target them because 5 lings reveal your whole flank defense they are totally defenseless for 40 seconds. It sounds like it will make for some interesting decisions. Do I take out that pack of Lings/chargelot with my mine or do I wait for some thing more expensive and send part of my army home?
You cannot manually target if its autocast it will shoot as soon as something is in range no matter what it is.
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Why I think the new widow mine is not necessary=ily stronger in the current stats
40 seconds per shot.
It's 2x slower than building another old widow mine.
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so the widow mine is a short range, super high burst damage burrowed seige tank...
i like it.
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On October 06 2012 07:49 s3rp wrote:Show nested quote +On October 06 2012 07:46 imJealous wrote:On October 06 2012 07:44 s3rp wrote:
IF you can't turn off Widow mine autocast this is not really useful to be perfectly honest . Especially if it auto targets summons and halluzination . Especially with the reduced splash again. When I read it I took it to mean you can't turn off the auto cast of the "build new missle" not the auto fire, but I'm not sure * Unstable Payload is an auto-cast ability that initiates once the Widow Mine is burrowed. It cannot be turned off unless the unit is unburrowed. * This ability launches a missile at a target within 5 range, then starts to rearm another missile. * Unstable Payload does 160 damage to a single target and 40 splash damage. I'm pretty sure this is the attack.
Yep, you are correct. It's pretty clear now that I re-read it. Hopefully they will hear feed back from top players and change that. Once that happens I think they might have a winner for this unit from the design side... then its just down to balance tweaks on damage/cost/timing etc.
Edit: also, assuming they give players the control option of when/what it attacks, it should probably do friendly fire as well.
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The widow mine changes is not like the Reever! Reever can move, widow mines need to stay in the ground. Widow mines only have 5 range.
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Image a reaver with a 40 second per shot. No one will use it.
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The only thing i'm not sure about is you might be able to turn autocast off before burrowing ( unless it reactivates automatically when burrowed ) I hope this is possible although i doubt it. Gotta see it first hand when they patch.
40 seconds sounds way too long for a reload. I personally think it'll go down to ~20 seconds with nerfed damage.
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Hopefully Morrow will stream later. Any other good  HOTS streamers?
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Widow mine seems overpowered- just need a factory for detection? Especially against banshee or DTs. It'll shut down pretty much any cloaked harass and a lot of zergling backstabs with the 40 dmg splash.. Oracle seems kind of odd. the siphon seems kind of stupid since I don't think it'll do much of an impact due to the oracle's fragility.. although in a PvP it could be useful as you could siphon on a forward pylon and punish them that way. And the mothership core nerf stops it harassing zerg bases early, since a queen can out dps it now. (I think). Course, I play zerg so this is all from an outside viewpoint..
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Patch btw isn't on beta yet. Probably will be tomorow.
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On October 06 2012 08:02 s3rp wrote:
Patch btw isn't on beta yet. Probably will be tomorow.
"We will be making the following updates to the beta around 3:30 PM PDT. There should be no impact on downtime, and the new balance should be in effect by your next game after 3:45 PM PDT."
http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/6794980782
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Love the widow mine changes, seems to actually compliment the immobility of tanks, providing AA. Would be interesting to see whether they splash on terran units or not.
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United Kingdom12024 Posts
On October 06 2012 08:01 DMZ wrote:
Widow mine seems overpowered- just need a factory for detection? Especially against banshee or DTs. It'll shut down pretty much any cloaked harass and a lot of zergling backstabs with the 40 dmg splash.. Oracle seems kind of odd. the siphon seems kind of stupid since I don't think it'll do much of an impact due to the oracle's fragility.. although in a PvP it could be useful as you could siphon on a forward pylon and punish them that way. And the mothership core nerf stops it harassing zerg bases early, since a queen can out dps it now. (I think). Course, I play zerg so this is all from an outside viewpoint..
I have no problem with this. Works just like the spidermine (minus it hitting air, I don't agree with that).
If you want to use DTs, get a halucination to go eat the widowmine then run your dts in, it's not difficult.
Also the zergling backstab thing is what the mine is designed to do. Without it, mech is awful at dealing with any kind of base race as you just can't get back before you lose all your bases due to the god awful map design. If tanks were stronger and you could actually defend areas with small amounts of tanks, it wouldn't be an issue.
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United States4883 Posts
I think the widow mines are really interesting now...I think they're moving in the right direction. I think they need to do friendly damage (if they don't already) so you can't actually defend your mineral line with one of these; this would make players have to think about positioning as well as allow units like zerglings or DTs to drag missiles into workers.
The one thing I'm worried about with the widow mine is the fact that it kind of doesn't control space outside of the early/mid-game. Right now, stalkers, colossus, immortals, marauders, tanks, thors, hydras, and blords all outrange the mines, making cleanup of them fairly easy, especially by a protoss deathball. I feel like, if indeed, we want to give terran the ability to control space, we're going to have to upgrade seige tank damage or at least let the damage upgrades scale up better. The only difficulty with this is that tanks may end up just being better than mines. We'll have to see.....
EDIT: The oracle just keeps getting odd and non-useful abilities. Just put in Phase Shift on static defenses, Blizzard! Everyone has already agreed that it's a good idea!
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EPT
