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On October 08 2012 09:11 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On October 08 2012 09:04 Fig wrote:On October 08 2012 08:43 -TesteR- wrote:On October 08 2012 08:29 DemigodcelpH wrote:
Mine isn't that good. Image a reaver with a 40 second per shot. No one will use it. Faster reaver than can burrow and doesn't cost money for scarabs? sign me up. And they can be reactored out while costing 75/25 Forget that, just fly the factory over to your opponents base and build widow mines there. Then, zip to the mineral line. Better than reavers, since the factory has more HP and doesn't need a shuttle.
But what if I use an oracle to suck 3 minerals per sec from your building? :D
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The new mine is 'different', I'm glad the range is very so so it's not too strong.
Opening with reactored mines basically stops the MSC rush tho lol
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Germany1309 Posts
Void-siphoning 3 minerals per second might not seem much and the damage is like a half zergling. But 3 minerals per second equals 4-5 mining workers or 1 mule. If you imagine a game in which you are low on resources or maybe even mined out or lost most of your workers. Having 5 oracles suck minerals from an enemy building gives you an income of 900 minerals per minute replacing a fully saturated mining base. I could imagine some pimpest plays with this.
Fun fact: if you play PvP and this works on shields you could theoretically gather infinite minerals 
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MS Core change:
MS core should be a defensive unit to let protoss safely expand.
I dont know if this is the case when the actual damage output is done by a nexus.
you dont have a nexus in choke points or at your army, where the fight takes place.
what use does purify have, when you fight at the choke of your natural against a 1base colossus push?
or against blink stalker destroying your production?
with this mothership core expanding will mean death in PvP again.
Orcale:
i have no words for the random abilities the oracle gets one after another.
and the funny thing is: everything is complete boring, weird or useless.
This one is boring.
"oh look an oracle is zipping on my building. guess i have to call a mule/pump 3 drones and send a queen/viking."
its only a problem in pvp, because protoss has no anti air with range >6. and it will create situations where an oracle will stay behind the main of the opponent and constantly zipping away on pylons and gates built at the edge of the main.
and the opponent has to build a unit just for the sole purpose of killing that oracle, if he wants.
every other counterunit to the oracle has another purpose, wueens do injects and are ofc always valuable to zerg, vikings are useable against every other stargate unit and colossus, but the protoss in pvp has to build a stargate and a üphoenix to kill this oracle, and the whole tech is usually useless after. that, because the stargate is useless after all in all matchups despite of being used in openings in PvZ and PvP (and vortex ofc).
widow mine:
completely overpowered.
a cloaked unit that DETECTS AND KILLS cloaked units?
are you kidding?
works against the tech units (DT, Banshee, Burrowed infestor) and not against the boring, usual harass methods (mass lings, zealot warpin, marine drop (you scan before a drop and will reveal mines).
i am really disappointed with the HOTS patches so far, they look totally random to me and not thought through at all.
its like "we change random things until the community says 'ok.'""
not professional at all. and it does not work this way. the community will eventually say "ok" when we are exhausted enough because of the many patches and changes, even when the game is not good enough to be released.
that is because we dont get paid for it, are younger and no professionals and therefore are at our limits much faster.
dont try to let the community do work for you, you wont get quality results and your product wont develop.
you have to do the work yourself.
tl;dr
these random patches lead to nowhere.
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On October 08 2012 20:58 Chosi wrote:Void-siphoning 3 minerals per second might not seem much and the damage is like a half zergling. But 3 minerals per second equals 4-5 mining workers or 1 mule. If you imagine a game in which you are low on resources or maybe even mined out or lost most of your workers. Having 5 oracles suck minerals from an enemy building gives you an income of 900 minerals per minute replacing a fully saturated mining base. I could imagine some pimpest plays with this. Fun fact: if you play PvP and this works on shields you could theoretically gather infinite minerals
Or I could just play terran and not have to spend any of my supply on these super expensive mules
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Italy12248 Posts
widow mine:
completely overpowered.
a cloaked unit that DETECTS AND KILLS cloaked units?
are you kidding?
how should you kill such a thing?
*cough* http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft/Spider_Mine *cough*
@chosi: 5 oracles is 1k gas, and in return i get...minrals. Not exactly a cheap or smart investment
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On October 08 2012 20:58 Chosi wrote:Void-siphoning 3 minerals per second might not seem much and the damage is like a half zergling. But 3 minerals per second equals 4-5 mining workers or 1 mule. If you imagine a game in which you are low on resources or maybe even mined out or lost most of your workers. Having 5 oracles suck minerals from an enemy building gives you an income of 900 minerals per minute replacing a fully saturated mining base. I could imagine some pimpest plays with this. Fun fact: if you play PvP and this works on shields you could theoretically gather infinite minerals
You don't gain the minerals that you steal. The opponent just gets them deducted.
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Italy12248 Posts
On October 08 2012 21:32 Tao367 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 08 2012 20:58 Chosi wrote:Void-siphoning 3 minerals per second might not seem much and the damage is like a half zergling. But 3 minerals per second equals 4-5 mining workers or 1 mule. If you imagine a game in which you are low on resources or maybe even mined out or lost most of your workers. Having 5 oracles suck minerals from an enemy building gives you an income of 900 minerals per minute replacing a fully saturated mining base. I could imagine some pimpest plays with this. Fun fact: if you play PvP and this works on shields you could theoretically gather infinite minerals You don't gain the minerals that you steal. The opponent just gets them deducted.
It's the other way around, you gain minerals but the opponent doens't lose them.
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On October 08 2012 21:32 Tao367 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 08 2012 20:58 Chosi wrote:Void-siphoning 3 minerals per second might not seem much and the damage is like a half zergling. But 3 minerals per second equals 4-5 mining workers or 1 mule. If you imagine a game in which you are low on resources or maybe even mined out or lost most of your workers. Having 5 oracles suck minerals from an enemy building gives you an income of 900 minerals per minute replacing a fully saturated mining base. I could imagine some pimpest plays with this. Fun fact: if you play PvP and this works on shields you could theoretically gather infinite minerals You don't gain the minerals that you steal. The opponent just gets them deducted.
No it's the opposite. You gain 3 minerals per second, but the opponent doesn't lose any.
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On October 08 2012 21:32 Teoita wrote:Show nested quote +widow mine:
completely overpowered.
a cloaked unit that DETECTS AND KILLS cloaked units?
are you kidding?
how should you kill such a thing?
*cough* http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft/Spider_Mine *cough* @chosi: 5 oracles is 1k gas, and in return i get...minrals. Not exactly a cheap or smart investment
spider mine is range 1, not range 5..
it will only attack ground units, not air (observer/overseer/raven)
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Italy12248 Posts
On October 08 2012 21:36 cari-kira wrote:Show nested quote +On October 08 2012 21:32 Teoita wrote:widow mine:
completely overpowered.
a cloaked unit that DETECTS AND KILLS cloaked units?
are you kidding?
how should you kill such a thing?
*cough* http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft/Spider_Mine *cough* @chosi: 5 oracles is 1k gas, and in return i get...minrals. Not exactly a cheap or smart investment spider mine is range 1, not range 5..
Numbers can and will be tweaked. The point of a unit is op simply because is both cloaked and detects is silly; of course a unit that can kill whatever can detect it before it gets detected is op but that's why there's a beta going on.
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On October 08 2012 21:29 cari-kira wrote:
i am really disappointed with the HOTS patches so far, they look totally random to me and not thought through at all.
its like "we change random things until the community says 'ok.'""
not professional at all. and it does not work this way. the community will eventually say "ok" when we are exhausted enough because of the many patches and changes, even when the game is not good enough to be released.
Really? Because most of the changes so far have had a clear purpose, IMO. In fact, the community pretty well asked for the MsC and WM changes, it's just that they were implemented in a slightly different way. I can understand if you don't like the exact implementation, but to say that there was no thought process behind the changes is absurd. The only change that really feels this way is the Void Siphon addition, but I have a feeling that Blizz is just stalling for time on that one.
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On October 08 2012 21:38 Teoita wrote:Show nested quote +On October 08 2012 21:36 cari-kira wrote:On October 08 2012 21:32 Teoita wrote:widow mine:
completely overpowered.
a cloaked unit that DETECTS AND KILLS cloaked units?
are you kidding?
how should you kill such a thing?
*cough* http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft/Spider_Mine *cough* @chosi: 5 oracles is 1k gas, and in return i get...minrals. Not exactly a cheap or smart investment spider mine is range 1, not range 5.. Numbers can and will be tweaked. The point of a unit is op simply because is both cloaked and detects is silly; of course a unit that can kill whatever can detect it before it gets detected is op but that's why there's a beta going on.
now you did manage to state an opinion and disagree yourself in the same sentence.
and my point is, that these changes are random and lead nowhere.
there is no direction.
you want examples?
- tempest was meant to deal with great muta flocks because protoss needs useful anti air against this.
in the meantine zergs learned that they can just build roaches and then tech straight to infestors/gglords.
so bliz forgot about the muta problem and tempest is now a long range siege unit, something nobody needed.
- the oracle was changed to break open the PvZ lategame.
now they give the oracle complete new abilities and forget about the PvZ lategame.
you understand my point?
its like 1single person does all these changes, and this person has alzheimer's disease and forgets everything after 2 week.
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Unfortunately blizzard opened this can of bullshit when they decided to reveal their plans to the masses. Trying to please all of you AND design something good just does not work. Every good idea they come up with gets shot down by the community as OP, bad design, Blizzard have no idea where they are going, not enough like BW, too much like BW, and so on. Game developers have to realize that most of the posts on the internet are nothing more than rants written by bitter halftrolls that have nothing better to do than trying to write intelligent complaint posts to boost their egos. The problem with this expansion is not Blizzard, it is the average forum junkie that base their conclusions on posts and videos. The problem with this expansion is not the ideas, but their inability to follow them through... The reason so many of you seem to think HotS will be bad has nothing to do with Blizzard, it has to do with YOU...
Fortunately there are still quite a few that try to discuss this from an objective point of view... Let's just hope blizzard decides to listen to you and not to the average consumer...
EDIT: Was supposed to include a link to some post a couple of pages ago. Bummer.
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On October 08 2012 21:42 Crawdad wrote:Show nested quote +On October 08 2012 21:29 cari-kira wrote:
i am really disappointed with the HOTS patches so far, they look totally random to me and not thought through at all.
its like "we change random things until the community says 'ok.'""
not professional at all. and it does not work this way. the community will eventually say "ok" when we are exhausted enough because of the many patches and changes, even when the game is not good enough to be released. Really? Because most of the changes so far have had a clear purpose, IMO. In fact, the community pretty well asked for the MsC and WM changes, it's just that they were implemented in a slightly different way. I can understand if you don't like the exact implementation, but to say that there was no thought process behind the changes is absurd. The only change that really feels this way is the Void Siphon addition, but I have a feeling that Blizz is just stalling for time on that one.
well you should have quoted the rest of my comment, that would be your answer:
"that is because we dont get paid for it, are younger and no professionals and therefore are at our limits much faster.
dont try to let the community do work for you, you wont get quality results and your product wont develop.
you have to do the work yourself."
with "thought process" i was meaning "doing the thinking yourself"
not "hey, lets just do what the community says, so we arent responsible."
of course thats a "thought process", too, but you just misinterpreted me there.
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and ppl said that reaver was too op to return to wol... now you have burrowed reaver wich dosent need to build scarbs with free detection and can attack air ...yaaaaaaaaaaaay :D
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On October 08 2012 21:55 DarkSeth wrote:
Unfortunately blizzard opened this can of bullshit when they decided to reveal their plans to the masses. Trying to please all of you AND design something good just does not work. Every good idea they come up with gets shot down by the community as OP, bad design, Blizzard have no idea where they are going, not enough like BW, too much like BW, and so on. Game developers have to realize that most of the posts on the internet are nothing more than rants written by bitter halftrolls that have nothing better to do than trying to write intelligent complaint posts to boost their egos. The problem with this expansion is not Blizzard, it is the average forum junkie that base their conclusions on posts and videos. The problem with this expansion is not the ideas, but their inability to follow them through... The reason so many of you seem to think HotS will be bad has nothing to do with Blizzard, it has to do with YOU...
Fortunately there are still quite a few that try to discuss this from an objective point of view... Let's just hope blizzard decides to listen to you and not to the average consumer...
EDIT: Was supposed to include a link to some post a couple of pages ago. Bummer.
99% right.
just that the "average forum junkie" is not the problem, its blizzards idea to let the community take part in such decisions.
people cant change. its futile to tell the masses that they do wrong.
and i dont like the "elite" undertone in your post.
"most of the posts on the internet are nothing more than rants written by bitter halftrolls that have nothing better to do than trying to write intelligent complaint posts to boost their egos"
are you sure that you arent just the developed version of this troll?
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On October 08 2012 21:36 cari-kira wrote:Show nested quote +On October 08 2012 21:32 Teoita wrote:widow mine:
completely overpowered.
a cloaked unit that DETECTS AND KILLS cloaked units?
are you kidding?
how should you kill such a thing?
*cough* http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft/Spider_Mine *cough* @chosi: 5 oracles is 1k gas, and in return i get...minrals. Not exactly a cheap or smart investment spider mine is range 1, not range 5.. it will only attack ground units, not air (observer/overseer/raven)
A small correction, the Liquipedia article is incorrect. Spider mines are definitely NOT melee range. They have 3 attack range.
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On October 08 2012 22:05 cari-kira wrote:Show nested quote +On October 08 2012 21:55 DarkSeth wrote:
Unfortunately blizzard opened this can of bullshit when they decided to reveal their plans to the masses. Trying to please all of you AND design something good just does not work. Every good idea they come up with gets shot down by the community as OP, bad design, Blizzard have no idea where they are going, not enough like BW, too much like BW, and so on. Game developers have to realize that most of the posts on the internet are nothing more than rants written by bitter halftrolls that have nothing better to do than trying to write intelligent complaint posts to boost their egos. The problem with this expansion is not Blizzard, it is the average forum junkie that base their conclusions on posts and videos. The problem with this expansion is not the ideas, but their inability to follow them through... The reason so many of you seem to think HotS will be bad has nothing to do with Blizzard, it has to do with YOU...
Fortunately there are still quite a few that try to discuss this from an objective point of view... Let's just hope blizzard decides to listen to you and not to the average consumer...
EDIT: Was supposed to include a link to some post a couple of pages ago. Bummer. 99% right. just that the "average forum junkie" is not the problem, its blizzards idea to let the community take part in such decisions. people cant change. its futile to tell the masses that they do wrong. and i dont like the "elite" undertone in your post. "most of the posts on the internet are nothing more than rants written by bitter halftrolls that have nothing better to do than trying to write intelligent complaint posts to boost their egos" are you sure that you arent just the developed version of this troll?
Any 'elitism' in the post was not intended. We have all seen very good franchises go to waste because of the overall 'negative' undertone of open forums, and we have seen game developers make very bad decisions based on forum feedback. That is the point of that post. I know I can not change the undertone on forums, but I can point it out. If it seems like it was a developed troll-post, maybe it was. Maybe not. If you took the time to read it than that is enough for me.
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the idea for the widow mine is actually pretty awesome. it would be cool to rename the unit and maybe alter its model to prevent misunderstandings.
as it stands, its not really a mine any more, its more of a mobile missile battery now
but i like the concept, its fresh and new
the concept for void siphon is also fresh and new, and i have to say i like it. not really useful against zerg but makes the unit interesting for pvt and pvp
i doubt the ability will stay as it is tho. it would be cool if the oracle could just steal all minerals that are currently being transported by workers in a given radius... that would pay off especially with mules...
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EPT
