On October 07 2012 10:42 Xanbatou wrote: Can anyone tell me if you can trip multiple widow mines with one unit? They seem to fire so quickly that it seems like you would have to sacrifice one unit for each mine.
I don't think they overkill (judging from Husky's video) which is very unfortunate
Actually, I'm glad, because Tempest overkill is the dumbest thing to watch in the entire game.
EDIT: Besides a certain PvZ strategy.
Overkill for Tempests give players incentive to target fire. Overkill for Widow mines give players incentive to spread them out, rather than clump them up (like in Husky's video).
Not the biggest deal in the world, but I'd still like it more if they overkilled.
The Oracle change is really dumb, they need to stop these "sucking at the building" ability. When are you really gonna need that extra 3 minerals/sec income boost. If I get the Oracle out early and suck on their building, instead of 4 gate i now can do a 5 gates all in! GENIUS! Not to mention you have to spend 50 energy and sit there for some time for it to do any real difference. Seems really gimmicky. Maybe make it halt the productions of the building, seems like a better choice.
On October 07 2012 10:42 Xanbatou wrote: Can anyone tell me if you can trip multiple widow mines with one unit? They seem to fire so quickly that it seems like you would have to sacrifice one unit for each mine.
I don't think they overkill (judging from Husky's video) which is very unfortunate
Actually, I'm glad, because Tempest overkill is the dumbest thing to watch in the entire game.
On October 06 2012 13:15 Thorrissey wrote: Let me get this straight...The widow mine kills cloaked units without detection. Protoss flies observer in to reveal Widow Mine. Observer dies? That sounds realllllly dumb. I'm all for drastic changes, but all of these are real head-scratchers.
gues what happened to ravens and overseers all along? you have to keep them back. Now it's easier to deal with them since you can send in decoy units that trigger the mines first.
On October 06 2012 13:15 Thorrissey wrote: Let me get this straight...The widow mine kills cloaked units without detection. Protoss flies observer in to reveal Widow Mine. Observer dies? That sounds realllllly dumb. I'm all for drastic changes, but all of these are real head-scratchers.
The sight range of the obs is more than the Widow Mine range. But yeah, you will have to babysit your obs a lot more now, which may or may not be a bad thing.
I'm wondering if maybe hitting cloaked ground units, but not air units would be something worth changing. If you need a lore excuse, just say they use seismic sensors or whatever to detect cloaked ground units. However, I suppose we should wait until this has been played around with before we start suggesting changes again haha
I feel like the "seismic sensor" might be the way to go, nice idea.
I'm having a lot of fun with peopl going 4gate against me by the way, they can't warp on the highground and the widow mines just troll them to death. but I actually feel like this is more balanced than it was before, silly all ins were just too good and greedy, macro oriented play too weak, especially in lower leagues. once people start to play more greedy early aggression and "all ins" will be better again. just think of the times were terran could go barracks before depot and when they removed that I thought "terran can never do early pressure again", yet we se 11 11 rax owning every zerg.
I don't think it's fair to compare the Observer with the Raven and the Overseer. At all.
IMO the Widow mine should be visible while recharging, and as compensation have the recharge time lowered to say 20 seconds. It's too easy for Zerg/Protoss to accidentally fly in an overseer/oracle/observer into a mine and thus cannot cross a minefield until they rebuild one. Also encourage good repositioning of the widow mine.
On October 07 2012 13:38 HoriZoNXI wrote: IMO the Widow mine should be visible while recharging, and as compensation have the recharge time lowered to say 20 seconds. It's too easy for Zerg/Protoss to accidentally fly in an overseer/oracle/observer into a mine and thus cannot cross a minefield until they rebuild one. Also encourage good repositioning of the widow mine.
How does revealing itself help balance the game when we already have DTs, cloaked nuke and mass infested terran lob that do not reveal themselves after an attack?
The biggest problem for Terran is there's no burst damage dealer in our arsenal after the siege tank nerfs. Protoss have immortals 50 dmg and DTs 45 dmg. Zerg have Broodlords and FGs. Terran have a red dot and an alarm (nuke).
On October 07 2012 13:38 HoriZoNXI wrote: IMO the Widow mine should be visible while recharging, and as compensation have the recharge time lowered to say 20 seconds. It's too easy for Zerg/Protoss to accidentally fly in an overseer/oracle/observer into a mine and thus cannot cross a minefield until they rebuild one. Also encourage good repositioning of the widow mine.
How does revealing itself help balance the game when we already have DTs, cloaked nuke and mass infested terran lob that do not reveal themselves after an attack?
The biggest problem for Terran is there's no burst damage dealer in our arsenal after the siege tank nerfs. Protoss have immortals 50 dmg and DTs 45 dmg. Zerg have Broodlords and FGs. Terran have a red dot and an alarm (nuke).
Because widow mines as they are are so broken... Your example of DT, cloaked nuke and burrowed Swarm Host all require huge amounts of tech (Twilight, Dark Shrine, Cloak upgrade, Optional ghost energy, Ghost Academy, Lair, Burrow) while you can reactor out widow mines as they are now without armory.
Since it comes out so early in tech it forces early Robo/Stargate play (with Robo being the more obvious choice) with a dedication to observers/oracle and make sure they don't get sniped by a widow mine. All of this could change obviously if widow mines couldn't hit air.
My idea of making widow mine visible is so that it encourages repositioning such as repositioning recharging widow mines behind readily widow mines.
On October 07 2012 13:38 HoriZoNXI wrote: IMO the Widow mine should be visible while recharging, and as compensation have the recharge time lowered to say 20 seconds. It's too easy for Zerg/Protoss to accidentally fly in an overseer/oracle/observer into a mine and thus cannot cross a minefield until they rebuild one. Also encourage good repositioning of the widow mine.
How does revealing itself help balance the game when we already have DTs, cloaked nuke and mass infested terran lob that do not reveal themselves after an attack?
The biggest problem for Terran is there's no burst damage dealer in our arsenal after the siege tank nerfs. Protoss have immortals 50 dmg and DTs 45 dmg. Zerg have Broodlords and FGs. Terran have a red dot and an alarm (nuke).
On October 07 2012 13:38 HoriZoNXI wrote: IMO the Widow mine should be visible while recharging, and as compensation have the recharge time lowered to say 20 seconds. It's too easy for Zerg/Protoss to accidentally fly in an overseer/oracle/observer into a mine and thus cannot cross a minefield until they rebuild one. Also encourage good repositioning of the widow mine.
How does revealing itself help balance the game when we already have DTs, cloaked nuke and mass infested terran lob that do not reveal themselves after an attack?
The biggest problem for Terran is there's no burst damage dealer in our arsenal after the siege tank nerfs. Protoss have immortals 50 dmg and DTs 45 dmg. Zerg have Broodlords and FGs. Terran have a red dot and an alarm (nuke).
Siege tank is your burst, its 35 dmg.
And to be frank with you, marines and marauders are BURST initself.
On October 07 2012 13:38 HoriZoNXI wrote: IMO the Widow mine should be visible while recharging, and as compensation have the recharge time lowered to say 20 seconds. It's too easy for Zerg/Protoss to accidentally fly in an overseer/oracle/observer into a mine and thus cannot cross a minefield until they rebuild one. Also encourage good repositioning of the widow mine.
How does revealing itself help balance the game when we already have DTs, cloaked nuke and mass infested terran lob that do not reveal themselves after an attack?
The biggest problem for Terran is there's no burst damage dealer in our arsenal after the siege tank nerfs. Protoss have immortals 50 dmg and DTs 45 dmg. Zerg have Broodlords and FGs. Terran have a red dot and an alarm (nuke).
Siege tank is your burst, its 35 dmg.
And to be frank with you, marines and marauders are BURST initself.
And they're cloaked? Are they unable to fire until they burrow?
Widow Mine: Widow Maker - Casted Ability - Manual/Auto-cast Toggle Attaches to enemy unit in range Z. You can now use Widow Maker (an ability) on your current target or use it to jump to another enemy unit in close range and deploy. You have (W) time once first attached to use the Widow Maker ability before it goes off automatically.
Widow Maker will deal (lets just say) 40% of the units total hp over X seconds (short, 3-5s) and if it kills its target, it will automatically hop to a nearby enemy (if poss) and deal the same damage/begin the same process. However, if after the DOT the unit has not died, the mine will explode dealing Y splash damage to the unit and nearby enemies.
Why this? I'd like to see more micro involved, and an ability to nullify/counter a unit and its effects with skill. Also it seems it would extremely powerful if used correctly (on low hp units)
Oracle: Bring back Phase Shield, or give the Oracle utility which will help Protoss armies escape without helping them do damage, or Void Siphon could also restore 1.0 shields per 5sec in an area around it. Something that will help incorporate it into play, and the main army.
Idk, just some ideas in case David Kim is surfing. I'd like to see the newest changes... changed; they are really boring IMO. Where is the Blizzard who took risks? They're too damn safe, it's beta! fuck around! ( I know they have been, but I want to see some cool stuff)
To me blizz looks kind of clueless on an abstract level. To obtain an entertaining and balanced rts-game some basic rules should be enforced:
* successful early game harrass should require micro (APM) and good multitasking by the attacker. * early game harrass should not be devastating except one player has twice the apm. Ideally the cost of harrass units compared to damage done should reflect the difference in micro and multitasking skills of both players * the "terrible, terrible damage-no micro required" doctrine leads to a one dimensional metagame * early cloak, early air + hard countering unit compositions make the game very rock-paper-scissor. It should be possible to nullify or weaken the hard-countering by applying micro. * reduce the potential of build-order wins as much as possible.
Ideally you follow a match of 2 players building up macro and tech while constantly harassing each other. The player with the most successful harrass *and* late game army control then wins. If you overdo defenders advantage, you get a 20 min-no rush metagame. If you overdo early game damage of harrass units you get all-innish rock paper scissor games.
Oracle should have cloaking field and mini radius recall! This is true synergy and harass! Why does blizzard keep comin out with weird ways to harass!! Return the cloaking field!
The new widow mines are pretty good, but they need to find ways to tune down the offensive capability. Spider mines can relocate so easily. Slow down the movement speed, or make somehow relocation harder. The way it can burrow, attack and move further ahead makes it look like a mini siege tank.
On October 07 2012 10:23 sitromit wrote: Here's a video of the widow mines in action:
Widow mines in this state should build 1 at a time and have a longer burrow time. The video with QXC has him just sending in mines and burrowing them by units instead of being a board control. I know the zerg dealt with it poorly in both unit composition and unit spreading. The mines just shouldn't be able to waltz into a base and easily burrow, attack then run away. Zerg and protoss will have to learn unit splitting for sure if mines stay useful. It is certainly an interesting thing to watch and combats deathball a-moving syndrome.
EPT
