EPTOn October 07 2012 07:18 SarcasmMonster wrote:
I'm Ryan Gosling except the good looks and fame.
I'm Ryan Gosling except the good looks and fame.
That's great, that you kept the most important trait: The money!!
HotS Balance Update #5 [10/5/12] - Page 31
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testthewest
Germany274 Posts
That's great, that you kept the most important trait: The money!! | ||
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a176
Canada6688 Posts
On October 07 2012 07:52 unteqair wrote: I'm not sure if mines will make PvT more exciting in the late game. There can still easily be a gateway-colossus ball so long as you keep an observer with the army. I don't think mech will be competitive. Edit - Well, actually, if mines are burrowed around siege tanks when they siege up, it could prevent stalkers from blinking on to the siege tank. Also, with battle hellions in the front, it can be harder for zealots to approach. they do friendly fire so no, they will also damage the siege tank and potentially destroy the mine itself too if close to be within splash range | ||
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unteqair
United States308 Posts
On October 07 2012 08:06 a176 wrote: they do friendly fire so no, they will also damage the siege tank and potentially destroy the mine itself too if close to be within splash range Missed the friendly-fire part | ||
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Doc Daneeka
United States577 Posts
widow mine change is good i think, headed in the right direction at least. hard to tell, probably completely changes it so i'm sure it'll keep changing significantly. oracle change is retarded. it was a dumb boring ability when the viper had it and it's dumb and boring now. the oracle really needs some utility so it can participate in battles, otherwise it'll always be the 'herp derp entomb' novelty unit. i didn't get to see many games with phase shield being used but the idea was at least headed in the right direction. i guess the scan-like ability can be seen as contributing but at some point toss is just gonna have observers anyway. | ||
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DuaneDibly
Australia30 Posts
That combined with the fact that zerg have no early detection means that early aggression is once again nulified. In a couple of games I have had these used against me aggressively also and i got completely destroyed because of no detection, and the only unit you can actively defend with is roaches. | ||
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mishimaBeef
Canada2259 Posts
Interesting changes all around. Curious to see how 3 dmg/3 mins per sec does. | ||
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nilsheam
United States28 Posts
On October 07 2012 07:12 BronzeKnee wrote: Can we call it... the Super Shredder? Terran will need a TGRI ooze upgrade though. No, we call it.. Mobile Armed Nuclear Silo, "MANS", Tho i like the Lureaver name... | ||
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hiddentoast
Canada2 Posts
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DeCoup
Australia1933 Posts
--- Muta play in sc2 is easy. It does not require a hell of a lot of micro or the monitoring of multiple locations like it did in SC1. Having to independently micro an overseer at the same time sounds like a good addition to me. It's not like it adds a lot of additional micro to pull off anyway, the overseer has detection at range 11 and the mines detonate at range 5, so you can just click the over seer somewhat close to an area to check for mines. The only hard part will be deciding to either - not engage an area guarded by mines; or - to split out and sacrifice a muta per mine for the potential gain of then being able to engage at that location; or - or dropping a changeling just out of range of the mine and moving it in (or even saccing the overseer) This new additional play requirement also opens up other opportunities for higher level Zerg players to stand out from one another. A really good player will be able to use the fact that they are forced to bring an overseer to their advantage by dropping changelings and scouting the rest of the perimiter of their opponents base for more weak areas to pick at next with their mutas, or to check what transition their opponent is making. SC2 needs a higher skill ceiling to allow awesome players to stand out from the average player. Units like the widow mine (and swarm host when people learn to disable auto-cast for surprise ambushes etc) raise the skill potential of the game for both sides. | ||
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Drake
Germany6146 Posts
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sitromit
7051 Posts
On October 07 2012 09:41 DeCoup wrote: The mine is another unit which will do this for both the mine user and his opponent. Needing to pay close attention to your units and even observers as they move across the map, having to scan or check areas before moving in blindly, and having to send single units ahead of your armies to make sure the path is clear are all skill ceiling raising elements which make both playing and spectating more interesting without making the game more tedious. As players learn to adapt to this change they will have more map awareness in general, because they pretty much have to. Map awareness as a player trait is something which should be encouraged all round. --- Muta play in sc2 is easy. It does not require a hell of a lot of micro or the monitoring of multiple locations like it did in SC1. Having to independently micro an overseer at the same time sounds like a good addition to me. It's not like it adds a lot of additional micro to pull off anyway, the overseer has detection at range 11 and the mines detonate at range 5, so you can just click the over seer somewhat close to an area to check for mines. The only hard part will be deciding to either - not engage an area guarded by mines; or - to split out and sacrifice a muta per mine for the potential gain of then being able to engage at that location; or - or dropping a changeling just out of range of the mine and moving it in (or even saccing the overseer) This new additional play requirement also opens up other opportunities for higher level Zerg players to stand out from one another. A really good player will be able to use the fact that they are forced to bring an overseer to their advantage by dropping changelings and scouting the rest of the perimiter of their opponents base for more weak areas to pick at next with their mutas, or to check what transition their opponent is making. SC2 needs a higher skill ceiling to allow awesome players to stand out from the average player. Units like the widow mine (and swarm host when people learn to disable auto-cast for surprise ambushes etc) raise the skill potential of the game for both sides. Needing to have an overseer with mutas essentially completely nullifies the mobility advantage of mutas and slows them down to overseer speed. Same with Zerglings. The speed and mobility of these Zerg units is supposed to be their main advantage, otherwise they have a lot of weaknesses and are very fragile units. Now they have to wait for an overseer to scout everything before they can move. No more Zergling run-bys, no more muta harass. Just more turtle to hive and get Infestor Broodlord, because they're slow as molasses anyway. It's funny how everyone complains that muta-ling is dead, and even Terran players say they enjoy watching it and playing against it more than Infestor Broodlord, but these new changes are pushing Zerg more and more towards slow deathball style of play. | ||
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-NegativeZero-
United States2142 Posts
On October 07 2012 10:01 sitromit wrote: Having to have an overseer with mutas essentially completely nullifies the mobility advantage of mutas and reduces them down to overseer speed. Same with Zerglings. The speed and mobility of these Zerg units is supposed to be their main advantage, otherwise they have a lot of weaknesses and are very fragile units. Now they have to wait for an overseer to scout everything before they can move. No more Zergling run-bys, no more muta harass. Just more turtle to hive and get Infestor Broodlord, because they're slow as molasses anyway. Overseer speed buff perhaps? | ||
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DeCoup
Australia1933 Posts
On October 07 2012 10:01 sitromit wrote: Having to have an overseer with mutas essentially completely nullifies the mobility advantage of mutas and reduces them down to overseer speed. Same with Zerglings. The speed and mobility of these Zerg units is supposed to be their main advantage, otherwise they have a lot of weaknesses and are very fragile units. Now they have to wait for an overseer to scout everything before they can move. No more Zergling run-bys, no more muta harass. Just more turtle to hive and get Infestor Broodlord, because they're slow as molasses anyway. assuming you group them yes. But you wouldnt | ||
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sitromit
7051 Posts
On October 07 2012 10:14 DeCoup wrote: assuming you group them yes. But you wouldnt What group? Say I want to fly with my mutas and harass the Terran base. If he has widow mines, I lose all my mutas, so I need to scout my entire flight path as I go. And you can't just say, "well I flew an overseer on that path 5 minutes ago, I hope it's still safe", you need to do it right as you go, or you risk losing your entire flock. What difference does it make if the overseer is grouped with the mutas or not. The mutas can't go anywhere without it regardless. | ||
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sitromit
7051 Posts
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Yoshi Kirishima
United States10383 Posts
One of those problems includes the weirdness of a ground mine latching onto air units xD Shooting missiles makes much more sense. Also the friendly fire thing keeps it away from army and keeps its role unique, and adds some depth to the strategy. Non-suicide unit means the supply/cost thing is much more balanced or easier to balance now :D Does not overlap too much with the spider mine! Does not make killing worker lines too messed up, since there is 40 second cooldown. They are definitely strong but it takes time for them to burrow and such. Questions: How does missile fire work? Shoots closest units first? Maybe putting some units behind worker line where they may drop can make killing the worker line pretty hard. | ||
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Xanbatou
United States805 Posts
Also, does anyone else think that these things burrow way too quickly? | ||
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spbelky
United States623 Posts
On October 07 2012 10:23 sitromit wrote: Here's a video of the widow mines in action: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pqtfaXI-71A I don't think gosuuser could have played that any worse. Also, I know Husky is trying to keep things interesting with his cast, but he said a lot of dumb inaccurate shit in that video lol. edit: with that said, I like the widow mine, but I'd like to see it's recharge rate equivilent to a swarm host, because right now it's really hard to deal with swarm host queen and a few infestors... So maybe bump swarm host timer to 40 seconds well? I don't think bringing mine timer down to 30 is a good idea. | ||
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SarcasmMonster
3136 Posts
On October 07 2012 10:42 Xanbatou wrote: Can anyone tell me if you can trip multiple widow mines with one unit? They seem to fire so quickly that it seems like you would have to sacrifice one unit for each mine. I don't think they overkill (judging from Husky's video) which is very unfortunate  | ||
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Crawdad
614 Posts
On October 07 2012 10:48 SarcasmMonster wrote: I don't think they overkill (judging from Husky's video) which is very unfortunate Actually, I'm glad, because Tempest overkill is the dumbest thing to watch in the entire game. EDIT: Besides a certain PvZ strategy. | ||
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