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On October 06 2012 21:53 Belisarius wrote:Show nested quote +On October 06 2012 21:50 Teoita wrote:On October 06 2012 21:45 Belisarius wrote:
Ugh, again with the useless "slowly steals minerals from building" thing. How many times have we seen this? It was terrible before, it's still terrible now. The oracle is, once again, total balls.
I really liked phase shield. I'm incredibly sad that they got rid of it so quickly. The problem with it is that, let's face it, it was more or less only useful against Fungal and maaybe Blinding Cloud (not that people build Vipers for anything but Abduct for some reason). That said, it's better than Void Syphon. I just do not understand how they could think that's a good idea. In fact it might just top the Warhound in terms of stupidity. It stopped abduct and EMP as well, didn't it? I would have happily PS'd colo and HTs, respectively. I just feel like it was a really useful tool that maybe wasn't being pushed just yet. It was a response to things that otherwise had no response, which added a layer of interaction that wasn't there before. I'm sure it needed tweaking, but that's not enough to throw it out. I'd accept its removal if they finally, finally did something about how stupid fungal is, since that's the worst of the "no response available" spells... but I'm not sure I see that coming.
No it didn't stop EMP, it stopped revealing cloaked units hit by EMP. Shield/energy damage was still going through.
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Italy12248 Posts
It'd be cool even if it was used just in PvZ lategame to have something that helps with infestors.
And i agree with your comment on fungal. Or specifically the interaction between fungal and bl's, as well as how ridicolously well Infestors scale well together in the lategame. Ghosts, Templar and Sentries all lose effectiveness past a certain count (and Ravens are underused/bad/impossible to transition into/whatever), with Infestors the more the merrier.
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On October 06 2012 21:57 DrGreen wrote:Show nested quote +On October 06 2012 21:53 Belisarius wrote:On October 06 2012 21:50 Teoita wrote:On October 06 2012 21:45 Belisarius wrote:
Ugh, again with the useless "slowly steals minerals from building" thing. How many times have we seen this? It was terrible before, it's still terrible now. The oracle is, once again, total balls.
I really liked phase shield. I'm incredibly sad that they got rid of it so quickly. The problem with it is that, let's face it, it was more or less only useful against Fungal and maaybe Blinding Cloud (not that people build Vipers for anything but Abduct for some reason). That said, it's better than Void Syphon. I just do not understand how they could think that's a good idea. In fact it might just top the Warhound in terms of stupidity. It stopped abduct and EMP as well, didn't it? I would have happily PS'd colo and HTs, respectively. I just feel like it was a really useful tool that maybe wasn't being pushed just yet. It was a response to things that otherwise had no response, which added a layer of interaction that wasn't there before. I'm sure it needed tweaking, but that's not enough to throw it out. I'd accept its removal if they finally, finally did something about how stupid fungal is, since that's the worst of the "no response available" spells... but I'm not sure I see that coming. No it didn't stop EMP, it stopped revealing cloaked units hit by EMP. Shield/energy damage was still going through.
Didn't it? Oh, okay. Obviously it wouldn't regen shields/energy after the hit, but I thought it was possible to PS something beforehand to make it temporarily immune.
Honestly, I would have been happy to see it changed to protect more stuff but only protect, and not "heal"/de-debuff. That way you would have to pick the units you wanted to protect, but they could also buff the spell to make it more widely used.
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United Kingdom1381 Posts
In the advent of a draw condition being reached (e.g. no mining), does using the Void Siphon ability cause the countdown timer to reset?
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On October 06 2012 21:57 Teoita wrote:
It'd be cool even if it was used just in PvZ lategame to have something that helps with infestors.
And i agree with your comment on fungal. Or specifically the interaction between fungal and bl's, as well as how ridicolously well Infestors scale well together in the lategame. Ghosts, Templar and Sentries all lose effectiveness past a certain count (and Ravens are underused/bad/impossible to transition into/whatever), with Infestors the more the merrier.
woaaaaaa. Then you haven't seen Byun or DeMuslims lategame in TvP, if you think ghosts lose effectiveness past a certain count.
Yeah, mass infestor is pretty, pretty good, but you know, that's what happens if you don't give a race a good, universal standard combat unit. The game is going to get balanced/evolved around the unit that fulfills that role best.
Maybe the removal of the phase shield points towards blizzard wanting to change the Infestor anyways in a few weeks. I'd hope so.
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window mine =great wall of terran has arrived
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On October 06 2012 22:03 iHirO wrote:
In the advent of a draw condition being reached (e.g. no mining), does using the Void Siphon ability cause the countdown timer to reset?
Is that really what you are afraid of? LOL
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Italy12248 Posts
On October 06 2012 22:03 Big J wrote:Show nested quote +On October 06 2012 21:57 Teoita wrote:
It'd be cool even if it was used just in PvZ lategame to have something that helps with infestors.
And i agree with your comment on fungal. Or specifically the interaction between fungal and bl's, as well as how ridicolously well Infestors scale well together in the lategame. Ghosts, Templar and Sentries all lose effectiveness past a certain count (and Ravens are underused/bad/impossible to transition into/whatever), with Infestors the more the merrier. woaaaaaa. Then you haven't seen Byun or DeMuslims lategame in TvP, if you think ghosts lose effectiveness past a certain count. Yeah, mass infestor is pretty, pretty good, but you know, that's what happens if you don't give a race a good, universal standard combat unit. The game is going to get balanced/evolved around the unit that fulfills that role best. Maybe the removal of the phase shield points towards blizzard wanting to change the Infestor anyways in a few weeks. I'd hope so.
Wasn't that before the nerf to snipe though?
Yeah high ghost counts are good, but it's not THE only way for Terran to win, like mass infestor is for Zerg (or close to that). I agree on the potential for an Infestor change though.
In general with the Swarm Host and Viper, i think Hive tech could be redesigned. Right now it's almost the only way for Z to win a game, by giving them more Lair tech options like they did i think there's the possibility of toning down Infestor/Broodlord and Hive tech in general a bit so it's not what Zerg rushes for to finish the game (outside of 2-3 base timings like 2-2muta ling in zvt or roach max in zvp), but rather something they can go into once they have an advantage from a Lair tech midgame and use that for the finishing blow. Hope that made sense.
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what is the current widow mine burrow time?
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40 seconds build time for the widow mine is way to long imo.
Attacking both air & cloaked units seems a bit strong too.
To people saying terran won't have to do anything to kill observators, the widow mine has a range of 5, so if protoss pays a bit of attention to his obs, he'll see the mine before it can shoot, so I don't think it'll be a big problem.
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On October 06 2012 22:03 iHirO wrote:
In the advent of a draw condition being reached (e.g. no mining), does using the Void Siphon ability cause the countdown timer to reset?
I assume so, because damage is being done.
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Wow, huge buff for the mine.
Its starting to look realy awesome, more like a missle silo then a mine but who cares
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I don't like any of the changes to be honest. Particularly I dislike the siphon ability on the oracle:
While it definately needed some additional way to harrass, the unit itself remains BORING. I'd love to see blizzard giving it an actually exciting ability to watch. An 10sec auto-cast attack projectile ability (that can be denied by attacking it, 10-20hp maybe?) to attack workers would be fun. Or a self-defensive ability like phase-shift that requires good timing/skill to use. Even if it's a copy of a another unit (resembling a seeker missile, or wc3 feary dragon)... ANYTHING is more exciting than watching a flying ball making its way towards a mineral line, casting entomb and then siphon an extractor!
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United Kingdom1381 Posts
On October 06 2012 22:13 KrazyTrumpet wrote:Show nested quote +On October 06 2012 22:03 iHirO wrote:
In the advent of a draw condition being reached (e.g. no mining), does using the Void Siphon ability cause the countdown timer to reset? I assume so, because damage is being done.
So basically in stalemate conditions its possible to farm infinite money versus protoss or zerg opponents if you have access to their buildings (due to health and shields regen).
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LOL i'm just watching Dragon's stream, he's only building widow mines... they seem kinda broken. 
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Just an FYI for the thread, apparently 12,000 more invites went out too (I assume they just "add" it to your B.Net account and give you a notification email) the beta must be at least 30 -> 50,000 now - still no luck for me :/ ahh well.
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Void siphon gives the phrase "the oracle sucks" a whole new meaning ;-)
I'm wondering if multiple siphons can be stacked on one building.
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On October 06 2012 22:28 iHirO wrote:Show nested quote +On October 06 2012 22:13 KrazyTrumpet wrote:On October 06 2012 22:03 iHirO wrote:
In the advent of a draw condition being reached (e.g. no mining), does using the Void Siphon ability cause the countdown timer to reset? I assume so, because damage is being done. So basically in stalemate conditions its possible to farm infinite money versus protoss or zerg opponents if you have access to their buildings (due to health and shields regen).
Maybe, I guess?
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On October 06 2012 22:34 KrazyTrumpet wrote:Show nested quote +On October 06 2012 22:28 iHirO wrote:On October 06 2012 22:13 KrazyTrumpet wrote:On October 06 2012 22:03 iHirO wrote:
In the advent of a draw condition being reached (e.g. no mining), does using the Void Siphon ability cause the countdown timer to reset? I assume so, because damage is being done. So basically in stalemate conditions its possible to farm infinite money versus protoss or zerg opponents if you have access to their buildings (due to health and shields regen). Maybe, I guess?
I thought of this too. One aspect of the ability that might turn out to be interesting, being able to recover from a no workers, no money situation.
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the widow mine is interesting but it doesnt seem like a "mine" anymore, it is a new unit with the old design of the widow mine
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EPT
