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I hope a thread like this is ok.. I just think it's fun to think about this kind of stuff, while trying to remain realistic with the constraints of the game.. so this is a thread for those of you who have ideas for units etc. I know Blizzard aren't soliciting for ideas, but on the other hand they really seem to be struggling with coming up with new stuff.
Oh, and I think anybody who posts ideas should also link to some kind of image to give a general idea of what it'd look like.
Here's one idea to start it off:
Terran Name: something norse... Vídar (a god in Norse mythology. He is the son of Odin and the giantess Grid. He is the god of the forest, of revenge and of silence. In Ragnarök, his father, Odin, will be killed by Fenrir. Vidar will take revenge, by killing Fenrir. He will either do this by stepping on his jaw and tearing the wolf apart, or by driving a sword through the heart of the wolf.) Visuals: + Show Spoiler + this ![[image loading]](http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-8TDN3OG3Ods/T9rE3HcgRZI/AAAAAAAACUk/rGAfcXBC7ps/s1600/mech_jp3.jpg) mixed with this ![[image loading]](http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-FMhS5XDzrhE/Tkph7dT93DI/AAAAAAAAB10/P2kBNa4n0-E/s1600/mech_3.jpg) and a pinch of this ![[image loading]](http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-ixkygtn38qU/TYUGov8A_ZI/AAAAAAAABm0/6IWwTz6id9U/s1600/mech_jp.jpg) Tech requirement: factory+tech lab Role: ultrahard support unit for positional play Description: a unit with the same mobility as a siege tank. It deploys in much the same way as a siege tank, but it has two unique deploy modes, each one corresponding to a different channeled ability - meaning it has to redeploy if it wants to use the other ability. Both abilities are channeled in a narrow aoe path/field from the unit and out to about range 9 and effects both ground and air. The path is set by clicking on the ground and can only be reset after stopping the channeled ability + a short cooldown. Ability 1: an aoe beam that silences units: Prevents all casting of abilities and reduces energy by a small amount per second to any unit within the field (also protoss shields) Also does damage over time per armory weapon upgrade level (4/6/8 dps) Ability 2: A complex ability consisting of two elements. "Vidar" emits a field of energy around itself and attunes itself to the bonus damage of whatever friendly units there's a majority of within the field. It also channels an aoe field outward in a line, like Ability 1. Any units caught within this field will have its armor type morphed into the attunement of "Vidar." For example, if the majority of friendly units around "Vidar" are siege tanks, zerglings and zealots that run into the offensive field will have their armor type transformed from "light" to "armored" when hit by specifically the tanks within "Vidar's" attunement field. The damage of Siege tanks outside of the attunement field does not have a special effect. An enemy unit can be effected by two differently attuned fields at the same time and take bonus damage according to the units around the different "Vidars." It can also attune to an ability like "snipe," meaning that if there are mostly Ghosts around the unit, the field modifies targets to be both "light" and "psionic" (and maybe "biological" if you want to get crazy) If the units around "Vidar" are for example marines, enemy units within the field will have all armor types removed, along with their armor bonus. Example: An Immortal is armored and has +1 armor innately. This +1 armor is removed while within the field. The offensive field also increases damage taken by 6/12/18% per armory weapon upgrade level It has a special command that allows channeling to be switched off and on after having set channeling targets, without having to reset the targets each time. This means that a player can set up a good position and only start channeling when a fight happens. It also has an upgrade at the armory which triples energy regeneration rate, and slows down energy drain. This allows it to channel longer, but also makes the unit much more at risk of being feedbacked. (yes, I know it's a very complex unit. But that's the point - not every ability in a game has to have a 15 words-or-less tool-tip. Dota is an example of how this is absolutely not the case, and games can have complex abilities and be better off for it)
mod edit: this is where your new ideas for HOTS should go. Otherwise, they should go in the battle.net forums
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-1 range attacking from low to high ground.
Really wish there was better hga in SC2 
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On October 04 2012 11:46 SarcasmMonster wrote:-1 range attacking from low to high ground. Really wish there was better hga in SC2
Not saying this would be balanced but giving it a shot seems like a good idea, might fix pvp but could really hurt tvz, has this idea ever been tested?
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I have an interesting one it is kinda just an idea
Terran
Name: Cobra idk something intimidating fast and deadly
+ Show Spoiler +
Tech:
I am thinking Factory, Tech lab, Armory
Description:
It would be a fast mobile unit used like the Vulture from BW
It would have no basic attack but would have a variation of the haywire missile ability
and could use it while moving like the phoenix
It would target air and ground air an increased range
and would have the ability to drive down cliffs but not up
This unit would give Terrans fun alternative harass that could also fill the AA roll for mech
The reason I like this is it gives and interesting new weapon against Brood Lord and Colossus
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On October 04 2012 11:54 TheLunatic wrote:Show nested quote +On October 04 2012 11:46 SarcasmMonster wrote:-1 range attacking from low to high ground. Really wish there was better hga in SC2 Not saying this would be balanced but giving it a shot seems like a good idea, might fix pvp but could really hurt tvz, has this idea ever been tested?
Never tested. HGA in SC2 has been very weak, and almost nonexistent by mid-late game. Maps feel very "flat" because high-low terrain doesn't make a difference as the game goes on.
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On October 04 2012 11:46 SarcasmMonster wrote:
-1 range attacking from low to high ground.
Really wish there was better hga in SC2
This sounds interesting, but also seems to be a very major change. Do you think somebody can create a custom map with this change and ask some semi-pro players to test it?
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About the High ground advantage
Imagine a Zerg attacking a Terran base terran has high ground when roaches come to try
to push they are easily repelled because each roach just loses one range then when the
Terran comes to push back all his marines must come closer just to be able to shoot same
thing again with cannons bunkers or siege tanks on the high ground wouldn't that make
defenders advantage just that much stronger as well as in the case of elevated ground mid
map you would be limiting map makers because many of typical Wol maps would suddenly
lend themselves to aggressive players getting this larger advantage in mid
wouldn't a better option be (even though it is a bit more complex)
+ 1/2 range for units on a cliff
- 1/2 range for units below
this may not seem very different but it means units below don't lose out so much on the ability
fire and the ability for units above to fire would increase this would effect the later stages of a
match more directly in my opinion
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On October 04 2012 13:17 AzraelArchontas wrote:
About the High ground advantage
Imagine a Zerg attacking a Terran base terran has high ground when roaches come to try
to push they are easily repelled because each roach just loses one range then when the
Terran comes to push back all his marines must come closer just to be able to shoot same
thing again with cannons bunkers or siege tanks on the high ground wouldn't that make
defenders advantage just that much stronger as well as in the case of elevated ground mid
map you would be limiting map makers because many of typical Wol maps would suddenly
lend themselves to aggressive players getting this larger advantage in mid
wouldn't a better option be (even though it is a bit more complex)
+ 1/2 range for units on a cliff
- 1/2 range for units below
this may not seem very different but it means units below don't lose out so much on the ability
fire and the ability for units above to fire would increase this would effect the later stages of a
match more directly in my opinion
I think that in general simply +1/2 range on the high ground would be enough. No need to make this advantage that huge.
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![[image loading]](http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_OSRxcps24X4/S8NIbsuFCYI/AAAAAAAAAE0/k4clvROSvNk/s400/Apc.jpg)
APC
120 Minerals 75 Gas
Movement speed: Same as Hellion
180 HP 1 Armour
Mechanical Armored
Load Marines, Marauders, ghosts and all kinds of infantry units so they can shoot on the move!!!
When it dies it takes all the units inside, same as Dropship.
Can load up to 4 slots, upgradable to 6 slots.
Ability: Deploy
APC Deploys like a Cardbox, while not carring units, it gets static and cant move, it shows a Flak cannon at the middle.
Damage: 18 Small AoE of 6 damage
Recharge time: 0.85 seg
Range: 7 (upgradable to 8)
![[image loading]](http://lo.genso.perso.neuf.fr/images/flak88.jpg)
Good infantry Assault unit. Fast Ground Transport for slow moving units.
Good Mech Support Anti air unit.
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On October 04 2012 13:57 KevoVargas wrote:APC120 Minerals 75 Gas Movement speed: Same as Hellion 180 HP 1 Armour Mechanical Armored Load Marines, Marauders, ghosts and all kinds of infantry units so they can shoot on the move!!! When it dies it takes all the units inside, same as Dropship. Can load up to 4 slots, upgradable to 6 slots. Ability: DeployAPC Deploys like a Cardbox, while not carring units, it gets static and cant move, it shows a Flak cannon at the middle. Damage: 18 Small AoE of 6 damage Recharge time: 0.85 seg Range: 7 (upgradable to 8) Good infantry Assault unit. Fast Ground Transport for slow moving units.
Good Mech Support Anti air unit. Make it able to cast haywire and I'm in! Lol, even though these ideas will never see the light of day, they are fun to imagine, keep em comming!
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The new Terran mech unit should be the Terratron XD
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I don't like the idea of a range modification being used for a high ground advantage - properly exploiting it would require inhumanly precise positioning which I don't think is really possible from players. A simple % damage reduction when attacking from low to high would be sufficient I think (sort of like BW miss chance, but without the element of randomness).
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i really like apc idea :D
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Throwing out ideas so BCs don't straight up die. Battle cruiser spell: enhanced Bio-steel regeneration
Based on WoL campaign ability, but consumes 1 mp for every HP regenerated. Can regenerate in battle.
This enhances the BC's role as tank for the Terran army allowing it to survive longer in battle while being kited.
Battle cruiser spell: short distance Hyper-jump
Based on the movie Space battleship Yamato, this ability with range of 25, when activated will cause the battlecruiser to instantly teleport to the selected location. 200mp cost.
-alternatively-
When activated, will cause the battle cruiser to teleport into the location with vision.
The ability has same activation time as Nydus worm so it is used as kamikaze.
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On October 04 2012 13:17 AzraelArchontas wrote:
About the High ground advantage
Imagine a Zerg attacking a Terran base terran has high ground when roaches come to try
to push they are easily repelled because each roach just loses one range then when the
Terran comes to push back all his marines must come closer just to be able to shoot same
thing again with cannons bunkers or siege tanks on the high ground wouldn't that make
defenders advantage just that much stronger as well as in the case of elevated ground mid
map you would be limiting map makers because many of typical Wol maps would suddenly
lend themselves to aggressive players getting this larger advantage in mid
wouldn't a better option be (even though it is a bit more complex)
+ 1/2 range for units on a cliff
- 1/2 range for units below
this may not seem very different but it means units below don't lose out so much on the ability
fire and the ability for units above to fire would increase this would effect the later stages of a
match more directly in my opinion
even now a zerg will usually drop roaches in the enemy base, not try and snipe stuff from the edge. I don't think this change would do much except nerf roach-allins a bit.
I think it's a good point though, high ground advantage becomes meaningless once there are air units in the game (also why the Ms Core is problematic now)
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1.
Ok. First an idea for the Hellion. While I believe it already has enough flexiblity with BH-mode, I didn't really know where else to put this:
Auto-turret: So far, we don't see it used very often. So, my suggestion would be, to move it from the Raven to the Hellion. Probably as an upgrade. Hellions would then come out of the factory with a single Turret, which would be free to deploy. In case the Widow-mine works out, this wouldn't be really needed though. The thought-process behind this idea was, that Bunkers, which could be used to buffer for Mech, would have to be manned with unupgraded infantry. Also, I'm not sure if Terrans can afford the Infantry-production, while going all out Mech.
2.
At the moment I'm still a bit leery of Phase-Shield. To me it sounds like an anti-Fungal or maybe anti-Zerg spell. Maybe somebody can help me with this. Is it likely, that we will see it in PvT or PvP ??? In addition Entomb is a rather uninteresting spell, so the idea, that is laid out below, is meant to replace both spells.
Instead, I would love to see a single-target spell on the Oracle, which would either work as Stasis or as a Teleport. In both cases Energy-cost would be based on the hitpoints of the target. Like 50-70 %. This would hopefully let it be effective against workers, but not to powerful against casters. Stasis would just disable the target for a short while, while the Teleport would simply move a unit a short distance. This could be useful to temporarily mess up mining or get rid of casters.
3.
Last, but not least, I have thought about Protoss-Stargate-tech for a while. Obviously I want both the Oracle and the Tempest to see a lot of use and to hopefully make this tech-path a bit more viable. Other then that I'm having a hard time deciding what Stargate-tech actually needs. Voidrays are already quite strong against Corrupters, but easily get chain-fungaled by Infestors. Phoenixes are fine for some uses and Graviton gives them enough flexibility. Carriers could need a reduction in build-time. The Tempest should be available on plain Stargate. It should be cheaper and more fragile and its range and damage should be balanced accordingly. Whatever is needed to make it viable for the late-game should be added through an upgrade on the Fleet Beacon.
A very simple idea to make Stargate-tech more viable in PvT and PvT would be to have some kind of weak splash-damage or splash-damage spell on the Oracle or the Tempest. I believe, that Phoenix-suppport can deal with Vikings, but stimmed Marines still constitute a problem. Having splash-damage on the Protoss' 3rd tech-path might be a simple but elegant solution. I guess it would have to be relatively weak.
Anyway, just a low-level-player theorycrafting here. :-)
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I really think that Zerg should get Hydraroach
![[image loading]](http://imgur.com/Q0yLW.jpg)
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On October 04 2012 20:49 Rimak wrote:I really think that Zerg should get Hydraroach
Hahaha. I forgot about that. Golden.
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I wish Terran units had more spells that are sorta micro-ish.
Like, for example, the Hellion getting a "drift" ability that, when cast, the Hellion does a boosted drift that curves so it can avoid enemy damage or get around mineral lines quicker or just be fashionably awesome. Maybe you could cancel it mid-cast, but also re-cast it very quickly so you're wavedashing with the Hellion. Something straight out of Melee. xD
Or, for the Viking, it gets a spell in which the Viking "divebombs" from air to ground into its Ground Mode but goes forward and down rather than just down and does damage to whatever unit it may connect with while divebombing but also takes damage to itself, too. So that way when Vikings are on the verge of death, it can divebomb for last-second damage.
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Protoss
Name: Not sure
Image: couldn't find a good one
Tech: Stargate(produced) twilight council
Description:
Just under the size of a carrier it would deploy allowing it to slowly
regenerate allied shields healing all shields withing a radius below it
When not deployed it would heal its own shields but would have no
basic attack
This would allow for more area control
(P.S. with this it would require minor changes to recall and various
other changes to prevent deathball but I would love a healing unit for
Protoss)
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On October 04 2012 22:26 Rapture_FBGM wrote:
I wish Terran units had more spells that are sorta micro-ish.
Like, for example, the Hellion getting a "drift" ability that, when cast, the Hellion does a boosted drift that curves so it can avoid enemy damage or get around mineral lines quicker or just be fashionably awesome. Maybe you could cancel it mid-cast, but also re-cast it very quickly so you're wavedashing with the Hellion. Something straight out of Melee. xD
Or, for the Viking, it gets a spell in which the Viking "divebombs" from air to ground into its Ground Mode but goes forward and down rather than just down and does damage to whatever unit it may connect with while divebombing but also takes damage to itself, too. So that way when Vikings are on the verge of death, it can divebomb for last-second damage.
Terran already has to much micro required when compared to other races, but this shit sounds AWESOME!
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Zerg
Name: Again not sure
+ Show Spoiler +
Tech: Lair RW? HD? IP? not sure it needs another but
Description:
Fast worm tentacle thing that moves and attacks while burrowed it would
ensnare its victims slowing them by a set amount and have a large bonus
to light and a small bonus to bio and multiple fast attacks
-Burrow attack reviles it until its target dies
-Ensnare -.5 movement speed stacking with other worms
-It would be considered light bio armored and have rather low health
It would be an amazing anti harass unit that would shred small groups of enemy units
It would be limited to moving on creep unless you un-burrowed
with this unit you would see more ravens from Terrans and more focus
on making/preventing creep
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I don't so much want new abilities as much as I'd like the current ones used in better ways, maybe just a handful of new abilities:
Zerg
Nydus Network should be a building with energy. A Nydus worm costs something like 50 or 100 energy. Easy, simple, encouraging nydus play with lots of worms built throughout the game, but limits their all-in potential immediately after they are made.
Corruptors could be faster, but with a pure melee attack.
Corruption can attach them to their target, draining health, healing the corruptor, and reducing the targets combat effectiveness without making them useless, maybe +25% damage taken, -25% damage dealt. Makes their tentacles make more sense.
Lings should be able to leap over each other, just 1 row at a time, maybe a mid-tier or higher upgrade. Gives that "ball of talons and death" feel to the unit.
Hydras should be the Zerg idea of a siege unit. Lower their DPS but increase their range to 7 or 8 and bump their speed up to 3.0. I want lots of little things throwing spines, moving around quickly, that's how Zerg would siege something.
Fungal should root for 1 second, then 1 second of snare at respective, lowering rates: 80%, 60%, 40%, done. Maybe even make units stick to each other, the more clumped up, the more effective the snare. This way it feels like a goop that the units are trying to crawl their way out of.
Infestors for that matter should be able to cast Neural from underground... the thought is just so cool to me, seeing a giant tentacle coming from the ground, stealing your best units unless you bring detection. Prepared players wouldn't notice anything different, but caught off-guard, you would feel hopeless.
Ultras shouldn't be fucking retarded. Let them trample small units like Marines, Zealots, and Zerglings. Yes, dealing damage to them as they walk over them, even the Zergs own lings. They're supposed to be fodder right?
Protoss
Zealots - I would like to see Charge be more like "Combat Maneuvers" with a shorter range and much shorter cooldown, 1 or 2 seconds, so they are just zipping all over the battle field.
DTs should have blink.
Force field should be neutral units that can be focus fired to break down. Same effect 90% of the time, but will stop the 1 FF on ramp bullshit wins.
Oracle should be able to entomb buildings and units, not minerals.
I don't know how to fix the Void Ray, but it's a shitty unit. Maybe instead of charging its own attack, it should burn through the targets armor, reducing it by 1 per second.
Mothership is also lame, would much rather see most of it's abilities reduced and given to the Oracle or a new arbiter-like unit.
We all know the colossus is terrible right from the very core of the unit.
Tempest is going to become useless, and I have no idea how to fix it.
Terran
I'd like to see Firebats instead of Battle Hellions.
In fact, change the Hellion to just be a buggie for 50 minerals and 0 supply. Let infantry units jump in and gain their mobility at the cost of losing stim/healing from medivacs. (Imagine Marauderions, how awesome is that, Marinions could have moving shot, i don't think that would be too much really)
Thor needs Haywire Missiles, get rid of 250mm cannon and the energy bar. This might actually make them useful in TvP/TvT.
Siege Tanks could be better, just a few stat buffs would be fine I think. Smart fire is also lame, get rid of it.
Widow Mines should be a Reaper ability that costs 20 or 30hp. They have enough ways to heal, so it is costly, but not too costly. The mines can have reduced effectiveness and 0 supply cost. Put them on a timer if needed, no biggie, a small reaper/medivac squad can always move around the map and re-lay the mine fields as needed.
Wouldn't mind if BC got some sort of a shield like they had in the campaign. That actually seemed very BCish to me.
General
Unit movement should keep the units more spread out in general. "Hey guys, clump up more, we might be under attack soon" said no marine platoon leader ever.
Smart fire is retarded, get rid of it. This would have the largest affect on siege tanks, but also affects Marines, Immortals, Infested Terrans, and Planetary Fortress. I think that's it. It's just a bad mechanic, let's the game handle too much and most notably, it's unfair. Only a few (mostly terran) units get it.
Splash damage should have friendly fire in general. The only exceptions to this rule, generally would be melee or near-melee units due to the functionality of their attack. That means Colossus, Fungal, Storm, and Planetaries should deal damage to all targets in range of their attacks. Ultras, banelings, and Archons would remain the same. I understand that Planetaries would then be useless, so there needs to be some other way to fix it. Give SCVs a 'shrapnel shield' or something to reduce the damage they take, but it annoys me that a Planetary can shoot a giant cannon and kill 10 Zerglings intermixed with SCVs without doing ANY collateral damage. Stupid mechanic.
High ground should be useful.
Less workers per base would be a general plus. Not sure if this should be handled through FRB or another option, but 25-30 workers per base is way too much, 12-16 seems to be much more reasonable, pushing for more expansions and skirmishes in general.
I think that's it.
Changes aren't necessarily made for their balance, but more the coolness factor. Things like the siege tank being stronger is because it's a fucking siege tank, not because I feel they're weak in the current game.
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On October 04 2012 13:57 KevoVargas wrote:APC120 Minerals 75 Gas Movement speed: Same as Hellion 180 HP 1 Armour Mechanical Armored Load Marines, Marauders, ghosts and all kinds of infantry units so they can shoot on the move!!! When it dies it takes all the units inside, same as Dropship. Can load up to 4 slots, upgradable to 6 slots. Ability: DeployAPC Deploys like a Cardbox, while not carring units, it gets static and cant move, it shows a Flak cannon at the middle. Damage: 18 Small AoE of 6 damage Recharge time: 0.85 seg Range: 7 (upgradable to 8) Good infantry Assault unit. Fast Ground Transport for slow moving units.
Good Mech Support Anti air unit.
Yes. I really like this idea too. Better add that it can't be loaded into a medivac (unless maybe one at a time).
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On October 05 2012 00:53 Jermstuddog wrote:
I don't so much want new abilities as much as I'd like the current ones used in better ways, maybe just a handful of new abilities:
Zerg
Nydus Network should be a building with energy. A Nydus worm costs something like 50 or 100 energy. Easy, simple, encouraging nydus play with lots of worms built throughout the game, but limits their all-in potential immediately after they are made.
Corruptors could be faster, but with a pure melee attack.
Corruption can attach them to their target, draining health, healing the corruptor, and reducing the targets combat effectiveness without making them useless, maybe +25% damage taken, -25% damage dealt. Makes their tentacles make more sense.
Lings should be able to leap over each other, just 1 row at a time, maybe a mid-tier or higher upgrade. Gives that "ball of talons and death" feel to the unit.
Hydras should be the Zerg idea of a siege unit. Lower their DPS but increase their range to 7 or 8 and bump their speed up to 3.0. I want lots of little things throwing spines, moving around quickly, that's how Zerg would siege something.
Fungal should root for 1 second, then 1 second of snare at respective, lowering rates: 80%, 60%, 40%, done. Maybe even make units stick to each other, the more clumped up, the more effective the snare. This way it feels like a goop that the units are trying to crawl their way out of.
Infestors for that matter should be able to cast Neural from underground... the thought is just so cool to me, seeing a giant tentacle coming from the ground, stealing your best units unless you bring detection. Prepared players wouldn't notice anything different, but caught off-guard, you would feel hopeless.
Ultras shouldn't be fucking retarded. Let them trample small units like Marines, Zealots, and Zerglings. Yes, dealing damage to them as they walk over them, even the Zergs own lings. They're supposed to be fodder right?
Protoss
Zealots - I would like to see Charge be more like "Combat Maneuvers" with a shorter range and much shorter cooldown, 1 or 2 seconds, so they are just zipping all over the battle field.
DTs should have blink.
Force field should be neutral units that can be focus fired to break down. Same effect 90% of the time, but will stop the 1 FF on ramp bullshit wins.
Oracle should be able to entomb buildings and units, not minerals.
I don't know how to fix the Void Ray, but it's a shitty unit. Maybe instead of charging its own attack, it should burn through the targets armor, reducing it by 1 per second.
Mothership is also lame, would much rather see most of it's abilities reduced and given to the Oracle or a new arbiter-like unit.
We all know the colossus is terrible right from the very core of the unit.
Tempest is going to become useless, and I have no idea how to fix it.
Terran
I'd like to see Firebats instead of Battle Hellions.
In fact, change the Hellion to just be a buggie for 50 minerals and 0 supply. Let infantry units jump in and gain their mobility at the cost of losing stim/healing from medivacs. (Imagine Marauderions, how awesome is that, Marinions could have moving shot, i don't think that would be too much really)
Thor needs Haywire Missiles, get rid of 250mm cannon and the energy bar. This might actually make them useful in TvP/TvT.
Siege Tanks could be better, just a few stat buffs would be fine I think. Smart fire is also lame, get rid of it.
Widow Mines should be a Reaper ability that costs 20 or 30hp. They have enough ways to heal, so it is costly, but not too costly. The mines can have reduced effectiveness and 0 supply cost. Put them on a timer if needed, no biggie, a small reaper/medivac squad can always move around the map and re-lay the mine fields as needed.
Wouldn't mind if BC got some sort of a shield like they had in the campaign. That actually seemed very BCish to me.
General
Unit movement should keep the units more spread out in general. "Hey guys, clump up more, we might be under attack soon" said no marine platoon leader ever.
Smart fire is retarded, get rid of it. This would have the largest affect on siege tanks, but also affects Marines, Immortals, Infested Terrans, and Planetary Fortress. I think that's it. It's just a bad mechanic, let's the game handle too much and most notably, it's unfair. Only a few (mostly terran) units get it.
Splash damage should have friendly fire in general. The only exceptions to this rule, generally would be melee or near-melee units due to the functionality of their attack. That means Colossus, Fungal, Storm, and Planetaries should deal damage to all targets in range of their attacks. Ultras, banelings, and Archons would remain the same. I understand that Planetaries would then be useless, so there needs to be some other way to fix it. Give SCVs a 'shrapnel shield' or something to reduce the damage they take, but it annoys me that a Planetary can shoot a giant cannon and kill 10 Zerglings intermixed with SCVs without doing ANY collateral damage. Stupid mechanic.
High ground should be useful.
Less workers per base would be a general plus. Not sure if this should be handled through FRB or another option, but 25-30 workers per base is way too much, 12-16 seems to be much more reasonable, pushing for more expansions and skirmishes in general.
I think that's it.
Changes aren't necessarily made for their balance, but more the coolness factor. Things like the siege tank being stronger is because it's a fucking siege tank, not because I feel they're weak in the current game.
Would absolutely love to see all of the above at least tried. Also would really like to see addition of the -1 range to low ground units and then just rebalance accordingly. High ground advantage in SC2 can become basically nonexistent in midgame, which from my own preference in spectating and playing is disappointing.
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Some good ideas here! I still think Blizzard should be bold enough to add new buildings instead of just units. Seeing a Factory/Starport/Gateway/Stargate with 5 available units for production is just silly. What's wrong with having to have 4 or maybe even 5 different production structures? Adding complexity to build orders and race design also heightens the skill cap.
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Only problem with new buildings is that they need to have enough
coming from them to justify the structure though it would be cool
to see shield battery return a boost to nydus to make it beneficial
to just place around for mobility and I wouldn't mind terran having
a automated anti-ground defense or such but a new building just
adds more complications to balance but again it would be nice but
I don't expect any in Hots maybe a few changes
P.S. anyone have any thoughts on my cobra idea... ?
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So i just had a really cool idea for the oracle.
The idea of needing a new harassment unit early on seems kind of silly. Phoenixes seem to do alright. However missile turrets/spore crawlers/Photon cannons can pretty much shut this down as late game option. So what they really want is a support unit that can double for harrasment later on.
So here is the idea:
The oracle would now be created in pairs.
They would cost 350/300 a pair
Very fast, and reasonable hp,
The split oracles would share energy but not hp and would be permanently bound (as in could not pair with another Oracle).
When one oracle dies the other can become a widowed Oracle, which would be about as 1/3 as strong as a Prophet (see below)
New abilities (i know the names our lousy please don't judge):
Merge/unmerge-The two oracles merge into a singular unit called a Prophet. The Prophet would be a very powerful flyer with a melee attack and very high DPS/Health/, a medium move speed and no abilities besides unmerge. Merging takes 1 second and unmerging takes 3.
Psionic blast- AoE spell similar to forcefield in size that would be have very short range. The damage for this one would be quite lower though (maybe 35 damage), And would unpower the oracle that cast it. It would also prevent units that were hit by the blast from attacking for 7 seconds, However they can still move.
Teleport - Teleports one of the oracles to the other one. This would be the only ability that used cool down. Also would be cast from the oracle that was being teleported to. This would allow for saving of oracles after psionic blast is used. This could also teleport through fungal growth but the unit would continue to take damage and still be immobilized.
Wormhole (fleet beacon research)- Would create a 500Hp building called "wormhole" directly under each oracle (the wormhole would feel like an attackable vortex interms of pathing). Units that enter the wormhole would be teleported to the other wormhole and could not use that wormhole for another 10 seconds and it stuns the units for 1.5 seconds. Wormholes last until destroyed. Works on friendly and enemy units. (A possible "does not work on massive units")
Reasoning behind each ability
Psionic blast-This gives the unit flexibility. This would be decent against everthing and would especially discourage deathball play (for example imagine broodlords that couldn't attack)
Teleport- Gives a fun dynamic of of one unit being in two places at once. It also allows for emergency merging. as well as teleporting out oracles that get in trouble after casting a spell
Wormhole- Can make the protoss army much more mobile. However the stun serves 2 purposes. One is to balance wormholing into the main. The other is to make wormholes against your opponents army more powerful. This way if you opponent gets caught in a wormhole with your army on the other side, they will be slaughtered.
Merging/Unmerging mechanic-Gives a late game harassment unit and lets the unit serve different roles. Also allows the unit to run in, cast spell and then morph in to melee unit.
Reasoning behind general design
-Because all of the abilities possibly offensive attacks are melee range this increases micro needed for both sides, without demanding presplitting.
-Helps beat the deathball syndrome because of it psionic blast. Hitting BLs/toss deathball with one would reak havoc
-Overall requires alot of micro.
Just some ideas, keep in mind the numbers would likely need tweaking. I am also aware that the Prophet would likely mean the end of one of toss's other capital ships, which would be sad.
Feedback appreciated!!!!
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With the oracle idea the double production and merge would not work for the cost
and I would prefer no merge
Also I had an idea akin to the Psionic blast a while back
A snare that slowed units caught dramatically and prevents use of abilities while
dealing minimal damage I like your choice of 35
If used in a mineral field it would prevent mining on some mineral patches and two
uses would kill workers
In the battlefield it could prevent spell casting, hardened shields, banlings detonation,
widow mines, psi-storm, ect ect
It would be more micro intensive then phase shield and be used in pair with many protoss units
It would have a relatively short duration but it would promote building more oracles
and work well with all of the air units ie prevents stim and units from running up on your air
The short duration and high energy cost of say 100 would make you have to be careful
when and where you use it and would make for a fun new spell in my opinion 
PS please give feedback ideas ect :D
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On October 05 2012 10:46 AzraelArchontas wrote:
With the oracle idea the double production and merge would not work for the cost
and I would prefer no merge also I had an idea akin to the Psionic blast a while back
a snare that slowed units caught dramatically and prevents use of abilities while
dealing minimal damage if used in a mineral field it would prevent mining on some
mineral patches and two uses would kill workers in the battlefield it could prevent
spell casting hardened shields banlings detonation widow mines psi-storm ect ect
it would be more micro intensive then phase shield and be used in pair with colossus
psi-storm ect it would have a relatively short duration but it would promote building
more oracles and work well with all of the air units ie prevents stim and units from running
up on your air
and the short duration and high energy cost of say 100 would make you have to be careful
when and where you use it :D
PS please give feedback ideas ect :D
As i said numbers could be tweaked for balance. And also a late game army would have only a few oracle pairs because of the amount of micro required.
I like your idea but i think that it would just become protoss fungal. The reason i liked the no attack idea more was would make the army retreat. not make it impossible for them to. I think that the thing about preventing units from running under can be better done with FFs. This idea just ocAcured to me and I should try it out. I also think that stoping other abilities is not the way to go. but thats just personal opinion
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It wouldn't be a protoss fungal it would be a snare slightly stronger then the marauders
slow it would be primarily targeted at killing slow units, casters, and units caught out
of position it wouldn't chain or stack and would cost much more as for the silence
it would focus on replacing the phase shield and supporting you army in a more active way
and it would also cause enemies to back off by placing it in their path and it would still allow
aggression while a no attack field could be interesting think about that paired with offensive
FFs cut off a chunk and take no damage? that just isn't right with mine they would still be
punished but it would give them a chance to fight back on that note
If they altered FFs range and lowered it a bit it would make your idea a bit easier to handle
for the enemy but I like the idea but I feel like it would work better on another army
Another option would be to bring back dark swarm for zerg to deal with FFs
not sure what to give terran but it isn't that much of a problem for them in my opinion
(sorry about the Off topic comment)
Wormwhole it would just become a more potent version of vortex and cause all sorts of
all-ins like nydus but it would be cool overall :3
Feedback Appreciated :D
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A change to Stalkers.
Increase health and damage greatly, and maybe give small splash. Make weapons deactivate if they are within some radius (the smaller the radius the weaker each individual stalker will be and the greater the micro; matter of preference) to any other friendly stalker, or perhaps any other friendly unit depending on how much you want to increase health and damage. Alter cost and build time accordingly.
For me, Protoss would then become the most fun to watch.
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Planet Cracker for Mothership. Seriously, what's an alien mothership without a stereotypical giant vertical death beam?
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If you did so to stalkers how would protoss continue you would virtually shut down stalker play
at low levels and even at higher it would be troublesome and over complicated to deal with
even with s big increase in stats (unless it was dramatic and costs scaled) the stalker would be
ineffective and it would make blink micro a nightmare
As well trying to snipe off any air unit would become more troublesome and near ineffective
Why would you introduce this? what purpose dose it serve and what problems would it fix?
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On October 05 2012 11:19 AzraelArchontas wrote:
If you did so to stalkers how would protoss continue you would virtually shut down stalker play
at low levels and even at higher it would be troublesome and over complicated to deal with
even with s big increase in stats (unless it was dramatic and costs scaled) the stalker would be
ineffective and it would make blink micro a nightmare
As well trying to snipe off any air unit would become more troublesome and near ineffective
Why would you introduce this? what purpose dose it serve and what problems would it fix?
Balls
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Name: Replicant(Redesigned)
Image: http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20111029161344/starcraft/images/c/c3/Replicant_SC2-HotS_DevRend1.jpg
Role: Unique spellcaster unit requiring robo tech
Cost: 150/150
Has a standard low(around same as sentry) damage attack that hits both ground and air.
Spells:
Replicate: Steals an ABILITY from target unit. Can only hold one ability at a time, but can be upgraded from the robo bay to be able to hold two abilities. It will be a targeted ability, similar to Rubick's spell steal to those of you who play Dota. You click on another unit. It cannot target units with only passive abilities such as roaches or colossi(though experimenting witht his could be cool.) Obviously it will steal the last spell casted by a unit if it has more than one spell. (Try not to steal stim... kind of useless haha).
Notes: Has its own energy bar to cast the stolen spell. Can steal burrow from most zerg ground units. Replicate a cooldown of 15-30 seconds for maximum microability.
With an upgrade to steal two spells these guys can really be powerful. Imagine stealing vortex and storm! If its too broken and creates less dynamic gameplay(because people are afraid to make spellcasters, it can be nerfed so that it can only steal one, or that it must be stolen within 15 seconds of enemy cast, and will only last 30-60 seconds in duration(this prevents someone from stealing, storm, for example and keeping it for the rest of the game on that unit, or stealing a spell used a long time ago by an enemy unit)
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While I love the idea of the planet cracker it will never be
I would love to see mothership lose vortex mass recall for a
main weapon planet cracker or planet cracker spell but
the balance just wouldn't be there even if they took away
cloaking field it just couldn't work to have such a huge Aoe
unless it did minimal damage or much smaller comparative
to what you would expect on that note what do you think
would be cool changes to mothership that wouldn't
"Break the game?"
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On October 05 2012 11:23 AzraelArchontas wrote:While I love the idea of the planet cracker it will never be I would love to see mothership lose vortex mass recall for a main weapon planet cracker or planet cracker spell but the balance just wouldn't be there even if they took away cloaking field it just couldn't work to have such a huge Aoe unless it did minimal damage or much smaller comparative to what you would expect on that note what do you think would be cool changes to mothership that wouldn't "Break the game?"
None of this is about balance - it's really just ideas and gameplay mechanics we'd like to see. Anything can be balanced later.
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On October 05 2012 11:22 unteqair wrote:Show nested quote +On October 05 2012 11:19 AzraelArchontas wrote:
If you did so to stalkers how would protoss continue you would virtually shut down stalker play
at low levels and even at higher it would be troublesome and over complicated to deal with
even with s big increase in stats (unless it was dramatic and costs scaled) the stalker would be
ineffective and it would make blink micro a nightmare
As well trying to snipe off any air unit would become more troublesome and near ineffective
Why would you introduce this? what purpose dose it serve and what problems would it fix?
Balls
Informative. But I still think it would require revising. Why not give them
"Void Shields" blink has a longer cooldown when they blink in clumps but
if only say 1-5 blink they get temporary invisibility say 1-1.5 sec scaling
down with more untill .5 at 5 stalkers this would promote spiting and raiding
with small groups while not making them to strong and you make it so that
they cant attack while invisible or the effect would end :D Oh and I would
Probably make this ability only come into effect if they built a darkshrine
Feedback Appreciated
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On October 05 2012 11:28 unteqair wrote:Show nested quote +On October 05 2012 11:23 AzraelArchontas wrote:While I love the idea of the planet cracker it will never be I would love to see mothership lose vortex mass recall for a main weapon planet cracker or planet cracker spell but the balance just wouldn't be there even if they took away cloaking field it just couldn't work to have such a huge Aoe unless it did minimal damage or much smaller comparative to what you would expect on that note what do you think would be cool changes to mothership that wouldn't "Break the game?" None of this is about balance - it's really just ideas and gameplay mechanics we'd like to see. Anything can be balanced later.
Shouldn't a concept at least try to be balanced
I guess in my opinion a concept should seem fair
or at least semi balanced to even be considered
I just want it badly and am lamenting that
I cannot fix it
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On October 05 2012 11:11 AzraelArchontas wrote:
It wouldn't be a protoss fungal it would be a snare slightly stronger then the marauders
slow it would be primarily targeted at killing slow units, casters, and units caught out
of position it wouldn't chain or stack and would cost much more as for the silence
it would focus on replacing the phase shield and supporting you army in a more active way
and it would also cause enemies to back off by placing it in their path and it would still allow
aggression while a no attack field could be interesting think about that paired with offensive
FFs cut off a chunk and take no damage? that just isn't right with mine they would still be
punished but it would give them a chance to fight back on that note
If they altered FFs range and lowered it a bit it would make your idea a bit easier to handle
for the enemy but I like the idea but I feel like it would work better on another army
Another option would be to bring back dark swarm for zerg to deal with FFs
not sure what to give terran but it isn't that much of a problem for them in my opinion
(sorry about the Off topic comment)
Wormwhole it would just become a more potent version of vortex and cause all sorts of
all-ins like nydus but it would be cool overall :3
Feedback Appreciated :D
First, about wormhole, it wouldn't work the same as a vortex because it wouldn't stack. And also the fleet beacon upgrade cuts out the possiblility for allins.
Good point with the FFs+Psionic blast. Keep in mind though that i made all of the abilities very short range to allow for spreading/target firing in response. It is a good point though. I think that the downside to your ability would be that it would increase deathballs because you REALLY need to protect your specialists.
BTW my design for the Oracle all came off of the wormhole. Everything else was built around that ability. If you have other cool mechanics that could fit with it i would be really interested.
Also could you be a little more specific about why you don't like the combining mechanic? I'm just curious.
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The wormhole mechanic is cool but if you placed two across
any narrow point while the enemy is crossing it stuns to many
units and unskilled players would be slaughtered and skilled
ones would use it well enough to avoid target fire.
The merge function would create a scary monster that you can
just place in the enemy base mineral line or use to clean up
watch towers. It just doesn't function well with a quick air unit.
If you brought them into an enemy base the 1 second to morph
then say 6 to attack at high dps it would kill a few probes and 3
to unmorph and run away. With oracle support of no attack spell
a small group could get in go on a killing spree and get out without
taking heavy losses.
On the front of wormhole. I think a cool compromise could be it has
to deploy to create a wormhole, one on each side, and it must be
powered. This could allow for greater potency from proxy pylons and
increased maneuverability.
On the front of my spell, It would not increase deathball. It would counter it,
you wouldn't need a large army to protect your casters, they would become
a core for witch your army would move, but it would hurt deathball to get caught
because of the number of units effected and it would with a revised 125 energy
cost be not all to common but still effective. It seems to me, you would want to
split up your casters, just like with emp, to avoid to many being effected and
it would benefit multi-pronged attacks and small raiding groups with oracle support
would be much more effective, because it would allow for safer retreats, without
recall. Allowing your MsC to stay with the main army, and I would make it effect
your army as well. So you would have to have extra care how you deployed them.
Thoughts?
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Warhammer is honestly what I thought of when thinking about what to do with hydras. Tyranids (and imperial guard) very often have waves and waves of small units with mediocre fire power acting as the bulk of their army's firepower. When I think of how Zerg should be seging target, I don't think of the Brood Lord, though throwing lings at the target is pretty cool, I don't think it should be the primary siege function of the race like it is right now. I think Zerg should have a ton of weak, long range, single target units lobbing spines at things. The Swarm Host is kind of what I want, but too short range and more of the "free units" concept.
Give me a siege hydra and make me use 6of them to equal the power of one colossus. THAT is Zerg.
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On October 04 2012 13:57 KevoVargas wrote:APC120 Minerals 75 Gas Movement speed: Same as Hellion 180 HP 1 Armour Mechanical Armored Load Marines, Marauders, ghosts and all kinds of infantry units so they can shoot on the move!!! When it dies it takes all the units inside, same as Dropship. Can load up to 4 slots, upgradable to 6 slots. Ability: DeployAPC Deploys like a Cardbox, while not carring units, it gets static and cant move, it shows a Flak cannon at the middle. Damage: 18 Small AoE of 6 damage Recharge time: 0.85 seg Range: 7 (upgradable to 8) Good infantry Assault unit. Fast Ground Transport for slow moving units.
Good Mech Support Anti air unit.
If you made the artillery powerful and long range, but it cannot move on it's own. It can only be deployed and picked up by the medivac. That would be some serious micro fun. You could constantly deploy it, then pick it up and redeploy it while it constantly shells the crap out of your enemy.
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Bisutopia19328 Posts
Protoss: Worth reading
Name: None yet.
- A trip wire style unit.
- It is a single unit that has a low dmg stalker type attack.
- It can be split into two pieces that are attached by a beam between them.
- They have a certain distance between them
- While separate can burrow into the ground.
- No attack unburrowed in this state
- only visible by detection when burrowed
- Beam between them is visible.
- While burrowed, any unit that runs through the beam takes significant damage over time and slows them for a very brief period of time.
- This unit can unburrow and reconnect as one piece at anytime.
- Extremely weak when in two pieces, yet a nice meat shield while in one piece so it's not useless as a whole
Strategies: This is a great unit for cutting of exit of the enemy army during engagement. It can prevent units from getting to expansions. And lots of other neat ideas.
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/qAlB2.png)
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Bisutopia19328 Posts
On October 06 2012 02:06 p1cKLes wrote:Show nested quote +On October 04 2012 13:57 KevoVargas wrote:APC120 Minerals 75 Gas Movement speed: Same as Hellion 180 HP 1 Armour Mechanical Armored Load Marines, Marauders, ghosts and all kinds of infantry units so they can shoot on the move!!! When it dies it takes all the units inside, same as Dropship. Can load up to 4 slots, upgradable to 6 slots. Ability: DeployAPC Deploys like a Cardbox, while not carring units, it gets static and cant move, it shows a Flak cannon at the middle. Damage: 18 Small AoE of 6 damage Recharge time: 0.85 seg Range: 7 (upgradable to 8) Good infantry Assault unit. Fast Ground Transport for slow moving units.
Good Mech Support Anti air unit. If you made the artillery powerful and long range, but it cannot move on it's own. It can only be deployed and picked up by the medivac. That would be some serious micro fun. You could constantly deploy it, then pick it up and redeploy it while it constantly shells the crap out of your enemy.
That turret is very close to the raven ability. Why not just have the autoturret be able to be picked up and redeployed again else where.
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On October 06 2012 02:21 BisuDagger wrote:Show nested quote +On October 06 2012 02:06 p1cKLes wrote:On October 04 2012 13:57 KevoVargas wrote:APC120 Minerals 75 Gas Movement speed: Same as Hellion 180 HP 1 Armour Mechanical Armored Load Marines, Marauders, ghosts and all kinds of infantry units so they can shoot on the move!!! When it dies it takes all the units inside, same as Dropship. Can load up to 4 slots, upgradable to 6 slots. Ability: DeployAPC Deploys like a Cardbox, while not carring units, it gets static and cant move, it shows a Flak cannon at the middle. Damage: 18 Small AoE of 6 damage Recharge time: 0.85 seg Range: 7 (upgradable to 8) Good infantry Assault unit. Fast Ground Transport for slow moving units.
Good Mech Support Anti air unit. If you made the artillery powerful and long range, but it cannot move on it's own. It can only be deployed and picked up by the medivac. That would be some serious micro fun. You could constantly deploy it, then pick it up and redeploy it while it constantly shells the crap out of your enemy. That turret is very close to the raven ability. Why not just have the autoturret be able to be picked up and redeployed again else where.
Yeah but this is a primary anti air, unit that deploys
having 2 functions, bringing reinforcements fast, to the tank line. (marines or whatever)
And a anti air unit that can deploy, making it good against air at long range. Covering the mech that lacks anti air at the start. Also its almost nesessary to make turrets if you are playing mech while doing a slow push.
So this gives the alternative of some AA that fits the purpose instead of builing turrets at the battlefield.
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whoa these are cool....call the dude with the pike an "Elite"
give him an charge/jump type ability that he can pin any unit to the ground with that pike including air units excluding massive . last 2 seconds....well some kind of restriction...it would be cool to work on broodlords but not cool to work on bcs
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lmao... These are pretty damn cool!
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-slow abdukt for massive units. instead of nerfing the viper vs massive just make it a slower animation(takes longer time to pull big stuff)
-burrow for viper. survive from flying anti air, late game useful (litle bit mystery)
-hydralisk hopp. not over cliffs. not over units. shorter reuse and shorter range then blink. just a 3 unit hopp. (upgrade after the off creep speed)
-spidermines 1 second unborrow - attack at location unit where when activated.
-widow mine upgrade - mini damage over time effect. a 2 ranged shredder radio field after mine explotion (radioactive core)
-creep squid for zerg. flat on ground squid that moves invisible swiming in creep - atacks with spike arms(on a location u can move out off).
off creep -cant jump over cliffs but can climb and move on the side of cliffs.
jumps over enemys to attack. so to help lings surround stuff
-new unit - science vessel + goliath somehow. howering circular support mech unit in the warhound spot
-career ability to morph to reaver, uses inspectors as crabs. (just make it dark and shiny)
-build observers from starport (to help with build order options)
-zerg unit that can camouflage as a bunker or destructible rocks.
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Name: Gunslinger, aka Marauder-That's-Not-So-Boring (Replaces current boring Marauder)
HP/Armor/Movement: Same as current
Weapon:
T-250 Defiance Shotgun w/ Grenade Launcher
-- This ground only weapon has a range of 4 and fires in a small conical area
-- The grenade launcher is an auto-castable ability with 4 second cooldown (think haywire) that is similar to the current marauder attack: high damage vs armored, lowish vs light units
Upgrade Abilities:
Mini-gun
-- research from TL
-- allows unit to switch primary weapon to a longer range (6) high burst rate-of-fire, suppression weapon
-- switching weapons disables grenade launcher
-- unit can switch back to the primary weapon at any time (short cool down between switching weapons)
Rocket Launcher
-- research from TL (requires armory)
-- allows unit to switch to long range (9), slow rate-of-fire, high damage weapon, with small splash
-- rockets have bonus damage to armored and/or massive
-- firing rockets has small channeling/set-up delay (think ghost snipe)
-- unit can switch back to other weapons at any time (short cool down between switching weapons)
No Stim
No Concussion
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The Void Pylon
![[image loading]](http://imageplay.net/img/m7Gbd161954/DarkObelisk.png)
- Drains 10 Shield Points per second on ground units when activated
- Drain area is the same as standard Pylon power radius
- Does not drain building shields.
- HP/Armor/Shields/Build Time is exactly like a Pylon.
- Build Cost is 75/25
- Provides 6 PSI
- Requires a Gateway
This is sort of like an anti-shield battery. It continuously drains any Protoss unit's shields within an AOE, friend or foe. The AOE can be turned on or off.
- Imagine turning it off when your units pass, then turn it on when enemy units try to follow.
- Early game, it can be a ramp deterrent while you fast expand
- Can synergize with the Mothership Core purify ability. Place it so that it drains shields around the range of purify.
It would make zoning and positional play possible for PvP. While it cant kill units, it can be a positionally defensive structure especially in the early game. Any units that pass near it are weakend, so if properly placed can give a good defenders advantage while offensive use would be a bit more difficult.
Best of all, it only touches PvP. It can be a balancing tool so there are new strategies to the boring PvP while maintaining balance in the other matchups.
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In the spirit of the Terran Sensor Tower, I had an idea to have some similar structures for the Zerg and Protoss. Actual numbers can be adjusted for balance.
Zerg:
Eye of the Overmind
- Upgrades from a spore colony for 100/100.
- Works like the sensor tower, but blips units that are currently in the air only.
- Has a larger range but only blips units that are moving.
- Loses its ability to detect and shoot air.
Seismic Tendril
- Upgrades from a spine crawler for 100/100
- Works like a sensor tower but blips units that touch the ground only. Reapers and archons/templar don't count because they hover.
- Has a larger range but only blips units that are moving.
- Can blip units that move while burrowed
- Loses its spine attack
Protoss:
Psionic Beacon
- New building at a cost of 250/250
- Has energy up to 200, starts with 100
- Can cast 'Psychic Sweep' ability that makes the entire map visible to the Protoss for about 5-10 seconds (cost 100 energy).
- Sweep doesn't see invisible units
- The building itself has a large sight radius, perhaps 12-15
Terran
In the interest of fairness, an upgrade to the Sensor Tower:
- Upgrade for 100/100 that increases the sight radius of the tower itself, perhaps to 15 (siege tank range).
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Nice designs, i like the terran flying unit
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Dark Pylon
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/zVyt2.jpg)
Has the same health and shield as a normal pylon.
Can't warp in with it, or build on it.
Costs 200/100
Increases Shield Regen of all friendly Protoss units within the power radius.
This building also prevents the shield draining effect of EMP for all friendly Protoss units within the power radius.
This building also prevents the snare effect of Fungal Growth for all friendly Protoss units within the power radius.
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What about a wall for terran (Not supply depod, or barracks) they actually get a wall.
![[image loading]](http://img470.imageshack.us/img470/220/muropx0.jpg)
Structure: Wall
Cost: 75 minerals.
Hp: 500
Armour: 3
Ability:
Salvage Wall (Sell and Returns 75% of its cost)
Maybe if can be movable... or re deployed, that would be better.
Upgrades: (Engineering bay)
Building Armour: +2 Armour on terran buildings (making it 5 armour)
Spiked Wall: Builds Wall with spikes making damage to meele units as 50% of their damage delt.
Why do i think about this: Ive palyed terran all my life, and protoss now a days counter mech with almost everything. Im a terran OldSchool that really misses BW Tank push mechanics vs Protoss, so im always playing mech vs them. (althought i lose more than i win)
Ive been making mech viable by building barracks, turrets, sensor towers and bunkers in front of my tanks. Blinking in with stalkers is so much dificult, and charged zealots dosnt work as well if the spaces are tight, Also Archons clump up, making my mech play much better. To move i just lift the barracks get a new position and so on, crawiling slowly in the map.
It Also works vs Zerg with zerglins, ultralisks and roaches.
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I proposed in other thread minefields called by Planetary Fortress and deployed like a mule, ramdomly deploying "real" mines in a radius arround the Planetary Fortress.
You can also let the Fortress to deploy arround autoturrets like the Raven.
Then It will became a real Fortress and let Terran drone a little, like the zergs can.
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Since my thread was closed down with the reason
"A post listing a bunch of different changes with limited explanation is not good at generating discussion. This would be better off on the bnet forums." i hope its ok for the mods that i post my ideas here. Probably should have posted here to begin with instead of creating another thread.
I have hade some ideas for changes for hots and wanted to present them
Zerg
Infestor
+ Show Spoiler +For the zerg units I feel like the infestor itself makes it so that allot of units cant show the full potential . Here is something From a previous post of mine of the problem + Show Spoiler +
“As the game functions right now the problem with fungal It’s not about that the ability itself but the advantage being to advance thru one tech tree without taking any major risk.
What we have to remember fungal growth is one of the ability that have changed the most since the launch of sc2.
The changes was done initially done to give zerg a better response to handling Protoss armored units. I think everyone agrees on that handling allot of the late game protoss composition without fungals would be impossible. The problem here is that the fungal when first presented had a low damage output and a long rotting effect(it was also a missile attack if remember it correctly). When increasing the damage to handle protoss ground units more effectively it lead to a different problem that is present now. This is also why these kinds of big changes on abilities should not be done often as the effect of the changes can lead to different problems in the future.
The problem that has occurred is the fugal effectives off handling air units. I think people agree on that choosing different unit composition should lead to different advantages and disadvantages. One unit should not be the answer to everything. The following logic was presented from blizzard when nerfing ghost:
“Snipe damage changed from 45 to 25 +25 Psionic
We felt the Snipe ability was countering zerg broodlords and ultralisks slightly too well. Especially at the pro level, we were seeing a lot of games where terran players were playing very defensive games while massing ghosts to counter most of the options zerg players had at their disposal.
While we like to see creative and innovative use of units, we felt that in this case Snipe was becoming too effective against zerg’s most expensive units. When adjusting the ability, we tried to settle on a number that would allow using Snipe to remain a viable tactic, though not as powerful as it is now. With this change, brood lords will fall in ten casts of Snipe rather than six (taking into account health regeneration), while an ultralisk will die in 21 casts, up from 11. This also significantly increases the number of ghosts and stockpiled energy needed to pull this tactic off, which we feel confident about because, previously, terran players rarely needed to consider the energy on their ghosts units.
“
(http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/blog/4448820/Situation_Report_Patch_143-2_10_2012)
The exact logic and be applied to fungal growth. Infesters are able to counter most options every other race can present.
Previously a well executed air attack from protoss could force hydras if the zerg couldn’t handel it with spore crawlers and queens. Blizzard further patched the spore crawlers rooting time to make it easier for zergs. After the infester changed combined with people figuring out the effectiveness off fungal u could now bypass hydras completely without any problems at all. U end up going to the infesters tech which u would have gone for anyway. The opponent is no longer able to force u do adjust your play with his air play and can comfortably play as u wanted to do .
Instead it should be choice of going hydras or doing a good defend with queens and spores. IF u wish to skip hydras/coroupters and take the risk to defend air only with queens and spores u should be rewarded with being able to go infesters. Currently there is no risk att all since the infesters with fungal combined with infested terran counters air units.
Fungal growth is not game breaking with any means or overpowered but it does give a unfair advantage to zerg . I believe infesters effectives against air units should be addressed . There should be a bigger risk of going infesters for zerg since the other lair tech choices presents risk factors that seem to be lacking in the infesters. This problem because more apparent in late game where the fungal ability is used to both shut down the ground and air army. Making u rely less on your corrupters. Infested terran used to supplement the lack of attacking units witch allows u to have a higher supply of infesters.
This is my take on it and its only an opinion and by no means facts. I believe people have different opinions in this subject and its more beneficial to present them that trashing down other people opinions.
With the hots beta out now I think it’s a good time to find other solution to supplement the role that fungal growth gives now. In wings of liberty its made sense to use infesters to address the issue zerg hade with protos but with the hots beta I hope they try to find other ways.
My suggestion is to change the fungal growth completely to a mass corruption spell. The abilty will work ass following: spawns swamp pool in the target area. Units/building 1.5 radius(believe it’s the same range as blinding cloud) will take 20% more damage. The damage increase can be adjusted and if it should work on buildings and your own units. The idea here is to increase the skill cap for the area control and have an ability that by itself isn’t good but synergize with the other units well. The concept of space control should work similar to the creep spread. As players don’t want to fight when they are on creep they would not like to take a fight if there units are in the clouded area. In that sense u can put this ability down to force your opponent to reposition but it’s their choice if they want to engage with less favorable position or a 20% more damage taken. Fungal growth in its current form forces the engement without any opportunity to retreat. Overall this spell should work better with the current zerg units and allow hydras,swarmhost and viper be more favorable to use. At the same time combining any of these units with the infesters would make them more effective.
Swarm host
+ Show Spoiler +For the swarm host balancing I would like to implement the idea of balancing the damage not by increase and decrease the range or damage from the lotus but by increase the amount of lotus spawned. Instead of decreasing the damage u could for instance dubbel the amount of lotus spawn and then nerf the damage and hp 50% for every lotus. This makes it so that the overall damage the swarm host does is the same if u let all of the lotus fire on a target without your opponent reacting. Using units without aoe attack to engage the lotus also make it less effective since u have more targets shot down before u take damage. Aoe units become more effective to negate the damage. This also makes the lotus more like cannon fodder instead of damage dealers.
Protoos
Replican
+ Show Spoiler +For protos I would like to reintroduce and old hots unit with some adjustment. The idea behind this is to give a better connection for protoss with their star gate tech and robotech. I think ever sine starcraft 2 realse people have been on the subject that protoss tech transitioning is not as effective as the other races. Terran have the add on switch and zerg have to build 1 tech building. The current transition between twilight tech and robo seem to be working better then with stargate. Transitioning from star gate tech to robo or twilight seems to be less effective. Making star gate tech being less flexible and in some sense predictable on how the protoss will be abel to play the rest of the game.
So don’t freak out when I say the unit but i want to reintroduce to fill this role is the replicant. Of course is not in the same form blizzard presented it. This replicate can only copy your own units that u have created and can’t transform to massive units. So how would this unit solve the problem I presented with the star gate tech. The replicant will be built from the stargate(maybe nexus) with a small cost of minerals and maybe gas. The supply will be 4-6 and it will have a fast building time. The replicant will have 2 abiltys: Transformation that allows it to become any non massive units that is in your current army. The cost will be the same as building the unit its self. This means that if u replicate a phoenix u would have to pay the same gas and minerals the phenix cost to built.
The idea is the choice by investing in tech that cost more in time and money for now but allows u to transition better later.
So if we take the scenario where we built 1 phoenix and 3 replicate phoenix we would have a have a phoenix harass group that have the same damage potential as 4 ordinary once but an higher cost in supply and base cost.
Here is where the second ability kicks in that makes this investment worthwhile. After the replicant transform a new abilty is created allowing the replicant to transform back to its orginal form. The ability will work similar to salvage on bunkers. You will get 75% of the gas and minerals back from the transformation cost.
This is where the transition effect kicks in for this unit. If u have built a robo bay and created one immortal u can instantly transform the 3 replicant that was used as phoenix to an immortal if u have the cash. If you still have your replicate immortals alive u can then transform them to void rays later in game.
I have some ideas for the mothership core that I might present latter.
Terran
Stasis bomb
+ Show Spoiler +For terran I want to change the window mine completely. I think blzzard is also noticing that balancing the window mine is really hard. I believe the problem lies with that the window mine have a high damage out put and at the same time the function as a space control unit. I want to follow the same concept as with the infesters change. Making a unit that empowers what terran already have but by itself is useless.
So instead of widow mine I want to implement something I call the stasis bomb. The function would be similar to the window mine but instead of damage it would channel out a lockdown area. Like the window mine this bomb burrows underground and triggers if a enemy unit walks in its range area. But instead of exploding and doing damage it will create radius are where all the units inside and walking in are locked down as in fungal growth or stasis. No damage is done but for the next couple of seconds(dont know how long is appropriate) any units even friendly are not able to move( attacking is still possible).
This version of the spider mine will empower tank lines against protoss. By having a couple of these in front of your tanks u make it so that archons and charge lots can’t get to your tanks until the effect is gone. The siege tank that have superior range can still attack everything in the field. Battle hellions can still attack the zelots if position correctly with the mine ect. It’s the player choice on where he wants the mines to be. If he/she places it to far away from the army , the enemy colossus/tempest will snipe the mines if they have a obs. To close to the army and it might be less effective.
For the muta defense u can have a mine next to turrets. If the mutas fly by and get hit by the mine there stuck with getting damage from the turrets or marines. For bio this gives u an area u can run back to where the chargelots wont engage u. Zerglings rushing your tanks is also harder. Viper could pull the mines or cast blinding cloud on the tanks/units so they can’t do damage on whatever is stuck in the field. This mines won’t have huge effect on the brood lord tech but might counter ultras. Also setting up mines and tanks together fortify a specific are giving you space control against ground units. I can go on and on on how many combination and what u might be able to do with this effect instead. This is also allot easier to balance since it does not do damage. How its balanced and how its going to function can be changed completely but the basic idea is giving terran something that gives them a aoe lock down that does not do damage by itself.
Battle hellion
+ Show Spoiler +Another idea is similar to increasing the transitioning between tech trees as with protoss. Transitioning from bio to mech is also something that could be addressed. Blizzard seems to be trying this with the battle hellion. First making it more worth your invest meant by going hellions by giving them the ability to transform to battle hellions with bio features.
I myself have a similar solution. Instead of making the battle hellion a unit that transform from the hellion I think it’s better of making it its own units itself.
The main reason for this is the balancing concern. Since it’s a mineral only units with comes from hellion it makes it so that u can’t make it to powerful or change it too much. By separating it from the hellion u can add a small gas cost which also allows it to be more powerful and have better abilities. My first idea was to add an anti mech ability on it but with the recent change from blizzard I believe the transformation ability between bio and mechanical sounds more interesting.
My idea of the battle hellion is that can transform between 2 different forms. The first is a bio form making it taking more damage against units that do extra damage to bio. It will have hp between 70-100 and can be healed from medivacs. The movement speed is also increased so it can follow the bio around. The second form allows it to becomes a mechanical unit with high hp around 150 maybe. Its movement speed is the same ass the current battle hellion. Both modes have the same type of attack and damage as the current battle hellion. What we have now are 2 modes. The bio mode makes it more mobile and allows small aoe damage with your moving army. The mech mode makes it tanky and more suitable with a defensive position. The main change is that it’s another unit by itself and not connected to the hellion . This makes it so that the damage can be adjusted, abilities added and more felxibel for changes overall. The blu flame upgrade should still be shared with the hellions and the battle hellion but that’s the only thing. This might allow terran to open up bio and put in some battle hellions over time and from there switch to mech. Marines/battle hellion bio might be better against mass zerglings.
I just want to end with that this are just some idea of concepts that might be interesting. Everything from damage,range,cost ect that have been suggested can be changed however it wants.
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I feel that people are complaining that protoss air play is very weak and hard to use, even with micro, the stats make the protoss air very weak in many circumstances. With the addition of the Tempest, and with the revival of the Carrier and Mothership, I thought of a great idea!
The Mothership, an expensive and high tech unit, should have a passive spell, you should be able to choose whether to have the existing cloaking field OR a buff for all air units in a certain radius! (You may only choose one or the other on the menu screen similar to scv autorepair) This will work out great since protoss air units take a lot of time to build but die so easily to mass anti air units or marines currently, the buff will make protoss air in large numbers harder to beat but will still small amounts of protoss air still weak as it currently is. The buff may be +1 Armor +1 Attack or +100 shield hp. I'm not that picky with the actual stats of the buff, but the idea of the buff within a radius is important. I think this is a great and fair way to make Protoss Air a more viable option in play.
Any ideas on how this idea may work? Opinions?
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@kdanze:
I do feel like the main problem with Skytoss is the Voidray. Like the Stalker it is an allrounder, which means it mustn't be too strong so as to not completely break the balance. Stalkers still can be very strong in many circumstances, because of Blink and Forcefields and later on Immo.-/Colo.-/HT-support. There is nothing comparable for the Voidray anymore. Getting back the speed-upgrade might one way to reinvigorate the unit. Especially coupled with a reset of the damage. At this point it is 6+4 into 8+8, while before it was 5 and 10+15. Harder to use, but obviously a very potent harass-tool. Maybe some kind of damage-upgrade or -change could also be an upgrade on the Fleet Beacon. Thus fully upgraded Voidrays would require some time. Kinda like Ultras.
Carriers and Phoenixes already make Protoss-air relatively viable. Carriers can deal with stimmed Marines and with Vikings reasonably well. They are also good against Hydras and Mutas and they profit from weapon-upgrades a lot. Phoenixes obviously good at harass, against Hydras, Mutas and Vikings. Against Vikings, just a few can suffice to buffer damage for Carriers/Voidrays.
Which means, that Voidrays don't need to be good against the listed stuff. If it was to be good in areas of harass, which are not covered by Phoenixes or Oracles, this could help out the Voidray a lot. Speed alone would make it a lot better at the things its already good at: Killing buildings, killing Broodlords. Speed might make Voidray harass safer, would make splitting against Fungal easier and might even give them a chance to flee from unfavourable engagements (against units, that are usually faster).
Oh and cutting 20-30 seconds from the build-time of the Carrier is an absolute must. This could fix so many issues. Coupled with the possibility to go for faster Carriers Voidrays should probably be even worse against light units, than they are now. It's probably better for SC2 if the Voidray never becomes massable in professional matches. Then again, Voidrays would become worse against Marines before Stim. Same against Mutas. Phoenixes and Cannons, or simply transitioning off the back of a ground force, might be able to fill some of the holes with SG-play, but I don't know.
I could go on for much longer, but I guess for now, I will stop here and maybe somebody else will point out some of the problems with my ideas. Which, I'm sure, are there ;-)
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OK here's one for Zerg I just came up with:
how about this big snake like creature that slithers over the ground being all nasty and evil like. A bit like the Dune Sandworm, it has a big mouth.
It's main feature is like the Warcraft 3's Kodo Beast: it can devour a ground unit.
The Zerg player has a variety of options. The primary one is to race back to base with this snake unit. Back at the base you can unload your captured unit, and quickly cast neural parasite on it, or simply kill it to smithereens with your base defenses.
Another option is to choose "digest" in which case the snake like unit becomes immobile and will deal damage to the trapped unit inside, until it dies, at which point the snake unit becomes usable again.
The enemy player has to choose whether to direct all his attention to tracking down these snake worm things and destroy them, freeing the trapped unit within. Or say bollocks you can have my unit lol.
Imagine an Overlord drop, dropping a couple of these snakes, eating up a couple SCV's and then speeding back to base.
Units that can be eaten would be:
Terran = SCV, MULE, Marine, Marauder, Reaper, Ghost
Protoss = Probe, Zealot, Stalker, Sentry, High Templar, Dark Templar
Zerg = Drone, Zergling, Baneling, Roach, Hydralisk
Because the units it can devour are the small infantry types, this unit shouldn't be much more than Lair tech.
I feel this unit isn't kinda complete without some sort of Yuri's Revenge Grinder feature. Sure, by devouring you instantly remove a unit from play which is incredible powerful by itself, but I kinda like the idea of these snakes having to rush back to base with their captured unit, with the enemy deciding whether to try and rescue their trapped unit or not. Perhaps some sort of mechanic to infest the captured unit and make it permanently yours, or drop the unit off at the Infestation Pit for a sum of quick cash :- )
Secondary abilities for this unit would be the ability to produce Baneling like eggs and store up a number of them, making this unit behave a bit like the Reaver. Another cool ability would be a chameleon like skin upgrade, that makes this snake unit invisible while idle.
This unit is specifically designed to behave different and not add to the A-click deathball, although I assume with the fast paced nature of SC2, devour should be some sort of automatic auto-cast feature, as it would be too tiresome to manually click single marines in a big fight.
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I was thinking, what if they gave Protoss something similar to the predator from the WoL campaign? Robotic animal with a small aoe is pretty cool imo. Build it at the robo and maybe adjust the cost to something more like 150/75. Make the aoe do a small aoe in front of them instead of all around (so it can't just take out a group of lings that surround it). Tweak the stats in such a way that it's better in smaller engagements so you couldn't lump a bunch in with a deathball to have insane aoe damage. I literally thought of this like 10 minutes ago so I haven't put too much thought into it yet, but it seems like it would be fun.
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On October 16 2012 10:47 Jaegan wrote:
I was thinking, what if they gave Protoss something similar to the predator from the WoL campaign? Robotic animal with a small aoe is pretty cool imo. Build it at the robo and maybe adjust the cost to something more like 150/75. Make the aoe do a small aoe in front of them instead of all around (so it can't just take out a group of lings that surround it). Tweak the stats in such a way that it's better in smaller engagements so you couldn't lump a bunch in with a deathball to have insane aoe damage. I literally thought of this like 10 minutes ago so I haven't put too much thought into it yet, but it seems like it would be fun.
Protoss doesn't really need more melee though, a ranged infantry would be more appropriate for them I think.
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I got this idea when watching some TvPs.
Impetusphere (because I'm bad at names)
Tech Req.:Factory, Tech lab
Role:Micro-intensive meatshield, long-range AoE
+ Show Spoiler +
A very immobile mech unit. Microing this mechanical ball is similar to an Archon being morph where you have to move it around with other units. It's high HP and Armor can easily withstand shots and can keep melee units away from the army and would so small damage. You can also shoot it with marines and marauders in order to push it a bit further. If a Sieged Tank targets the ball, it would shoot the ball forward a long distance, it would do a large amount of AoE damage in a straight line and do an additional splash damage at the end of the travel (or maybe it would just fly in the air and do large amount of splash damage as it lands, dunno).
Upgrade: Circuit Control
Passive ability that allows the Terran play to manually control the movement of the Impetusphere (cannot be control as it's shot by a Siege Tank).
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On October 16 2012 11:18 -NegativeZero- wrote:Show nested quote +On October 16 2012 10:47 Jaegan wrote:
I was thinking, what if they gave Protoss something similar to the predator from the WoL campaign? Robotic animal with a small aoe is pretty cool imo. Build it at the robo and maybe adjust the cost to something more like 150/75. Make the aoe do a small aoe in front of them instead of all around (so it can't just take out a group of lings that surround it). Tweak the stats in such a way that it's better in smaller engagements so you couldn't lump a bunch in with a deathball to have insane aoe damage. I literally thought of this like 10 minutes ago so I haven't put too much thought into it yet, but it seems like it would be fun. Protoss doesn't really need more melee though, a ranged infantry would be more appropriate for them I think.
Actually that was the other thought that I had. A templar-esque unit with a ranged attack, but I don't want to add just another a-move unit to put into an army and haven't come up with a way to make it unique yet.
Now that I think of it, the predator as it stands would be fairly similar to the hellion (fast, not too much hp, small aoe), but I'm more in favor of adding fast units as they require more micro. Toss as a race isn't that fast outside of phoenix. Stalkers are moderately fast and with blink can get around pretty quick. Maybe having a fairly low tech alternative fast unit could help diversify play a bit. Maybe phoenix fill that role for some people, but I don't care for toss air in general so maybe I'm the only one that thinks this way.
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I have been thinking alot about lategame defence for protoss, zerg can just throw down some spores and spines and they are very good. Terran make planetary, which is (with repair) incredibly strong against light harrass(like zealot drop or zergling runby), protoss doesn't really have the same defence, pylons+cannons is good, but not nearly as good as the other races static defences, and this is reasonable as cannons are ground+air and cannon rushes are very strong.
I though of an upgrade on twilight council for 150/150 that makes nexuses have a warpfield, like a pylon. This will not buff cannons offensively and will just take down the cost for defending expansions.
This will also make the protoss player able to defend an expansion with warp ins without having to build a pylon, and to remove the warpfield you need to kill the nexus, and maybe not just one pylon.
What do you think?
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I would love to see a zerg worm like creature. something that is burrowed most of the time. I've been thinking for it to have a melee attack that stuns its target. Like a grapple or something. While attacking it would be visible, but not while moving. Perfect for taking out solo targets. and worker harass. Then at hive tech or so you could upgrade them to a bigger worm capable of a kodo beast like attack against non massive units. Basically it swallows the unit and disappears again underground. It can't attack again until the current unit is digested.
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Baneling:
Upgrade (at Lair Tech): +10 Armor when Burrowed
Speed Upgrade moved to Hive Tech
It just makes sense that a unit under several feet of dirt is harder to kill: "Never figured on having to shoot through dirt! Best goddamn bullet stop there is." Burt Grummer, Tremors (1990)
The extra armor when burrowed allows the baneling to be used positionally to hold chokes and ramps. Does your opponent spend precious seconds destroying a few banelings with his entire army while your army gets into position to flank?
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On February 28 2013 05:47 SciFiSaint wrote:
It just makes sense that a unit under several feet of dirt is harder to kill: "Never figured on having to shoot through dirt! Best goddamn bullet stop there is." Burt Grummer, Tremors (1990)
Nice quote. I can tell you are a true afficianado of fine cinema :p.
Terrans have the Sensor Tower. I always thought it would be a neat idea for the other two races to have something similar.
Zerg Spore Seer
- Requires Lair, morphs from Spore Crawler (100/100)
- Can no longer shoot or detect.
- Can see moving air or hovering units from range, showing as blips on mini-map.
Zerg Spine Feeler
- Requires Lair, morphs from Spine Crawler (100/100)
- Can no longer attack.
- Can see moving ground or burrow-moving units from range, showing as blips on mini-map.
Protoss Psi Monument
- New building, cost (300/300)
- Requires a Twilight Council
- Has max 200 energy.
- Two abilities:
- Psi Prescience (50en) - Cast on a friendly unit, which gives 10 seconds of mini-map blip detection on that unit.
- Psi Reveal (200en) - Reveals the entire map (full vision) for 10 seconds. Does not detect cloaked/burrowed.
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Tremors is such a good film
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