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United States97276 Posts
My mass swarmhost strat is ruined T_T
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On September 29 2012 10:05 denyeverything wrote:Show nested quote +On September 29 2012 09:44 kcdc wrote:On September 29 2012 09:34 denyeverything wrote:On September 29 2012 08:24 kcdc wrote:
MsC changes are an improvement. Giving it a reasonable movement speed should make it less frustrating. I wonder what the range is on the low-damage attack.
Blink all-ins will still be good vs Terran. The MsC will still spot for you so you don't need a robo, and it will provide a little damage.
One thing I don't like is that all maps will have to be designed so that important base-defense chokes are near the spot where you'll build your nexus. The game is going to be balanced around P having the option to cast purify on the nexus to attacks, which means every single map will have to position the nexus such that a 10 range cannon on top of the nexus is useful. That already happens on most maps, but it's still a shame to place another constraint on map design options. (Map constraints are already a big problem--check out how the main, natural and thirds are positioined similarly with similar entrances on every single map) They don't have to be designed that way, because they don't have to accommodate all strategies. All maps have to accomodate expanding..... If this mechanic sticks around, I guarantee you will never see a HOTS tournament map where the nexus at the natural is more than 8 range from the ramp into the main. You're also going to see every single map structured so that the cannon on the nexus can defend the choke into the natural so that purify can synergize with forcefields. Purify is in the game to be a standard defensive tool for taking a second base, and every single map is going to be structured in such a way that purify can be used as intended. Perhaps, I'm uninformed, so correct me if I'm wrong, but I didn't think that Protoss players had been one-basing the entire time waiting for Purify to come around.
I love that you tried to be a smartass and accidentally wound up describing the WoL PvP experience to a tee.
If tournament maps are tailoring to specific strategies (and I completely agree with you that they do), does it really matter? If they are just going to tailor a map to accommodate "staple strategy," then the notion of their being "design constraints" is illusionary, because they aren't designing. They are just following someone else's instructions, and thus nothing is lost. I actually think that this sort of take-the-meta-by-the-hand approach is more of a downside for the game's development than a plus.
The more features maps need to share in order to be tournament quality, the less map diversity there will be.
Look at every tournament map right now. Maybe you've noticed that your main macro build works on every single map in the ladder pool? That's because all of the maps are the same.
They all have a narrow ramp into the main, a closed natural with a narrow choke (never more than 3 forcefields wide, and usually uphill), and a third base that's close to the natural and has a maximum of two entrances (one of which usually leads to the natural). Even the entrances to the third bases are typically narrow enough to be closed by a handful of forcefields.
Why does this happen? So that P can expand against Z. P's early units are much slower and weaker for cost than Z's early units except in chokes, so map-makers are forced to squish the bases together and give P a bunch of chokes that they can abuse to get their economy up.
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Toss buff and Terran Nerf lol but nice speed on the core excited for this one
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On September 29 2012 10:09 Laneir wrote:
Toss buff and Terran Nerf lol but nice speed on the core excited for this one
I would argue that the patch buffed 
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Blizzard, it seems, has no idea what they're doing with the MSC. Now players are encouraged to gather all their units under the MSC umbrella; something that's opposite of what Blizzard said they wanted to do.
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i like that you turn off the auto cast from the wido mine, even thow it becomes a terran borrowed baneling (yay) but i would still like to see atleast 1 more new unit since the warhound was removed.
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... Increased swarm host range? =.=
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would not have been a proper balance patch without touching the bunker
Battle hellions can no longer load into Bunkers.
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how much energy the new recall will cost? it will mean toss will have to save ALOT of cb to be a little bit aggresive? i gues no more stalker harrasment
edit: or wait for the core have enough energy for energyse then go for the harrasment?
ok nvm i juts realise how the change really is
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On September 29 2012 10:11 SpunXtain03 wrote:
... Increased swarm host range? =.=
... Decreased swarm host attack damage? =.=
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On September 29 2012 08:58 SarcasmMonster wrote:Show nested quote +As you’ve likely noticed, we’re still actively tuning the numbers on many of the new units we’re introducing in Heart of the Swarm. We’re making these changes after frequently referring to the stats from the beta, our play experiences, discussions taking place on the community forums and fan sites, and pro feedback. We think there’s still a ways to go in terms of number tweaks and are working hard to bring you the best experience possible.
The main design changes for this week are surrounding the mothership core. Due to the variety in maps, we found that no matter how slow we made the mothership core’s movement speed, deadly all-in strategies exist on many different maps and/or positions. To ensure that this unit does not limit us as well as the many tournament map makers around the world, we decided to go in a new direction.
The mothership core’s Purify ability is now cast on a Nexus attaching the unit to the Nexus and enabling a weapon that deals 20 damage. The mothership core will remain attached to the Nexus until cancelled; however, energy will not be regenerated and no abilities can be used while attached. Additionally, the Recall ability has been modified to teleport the mothership core and units nearby to a targeted Nexus. Both of these changes were made to discourage the unit from being used in all-ins. Now that its two spells are strictly defensive, we believe we can make a cooler mothership core. It will now move at a reasonably fast speed and feature an anti-ground attack. We hope these changes will make the unit a lot more fun to use.
We’ve also been carefully monitoring your feedback regarding the map pool and agree that Fractured Glacier isn’t a very competitive 1v1 map. In the future, we will be removing this from the ladder pool and will be replacing it with a new map. Additionally, three Wings of Liberty maps will be added into the beta map pool at a later date. Our current plan is to implement these map pool changes as soon as possible and stick with these eight maps for the remainder of the beta. We anticipate that Heart of the Swarm Season 1 will feature the same map pool; however, this is definitely not set in stone, so feedback on the updated map pool is greatly appreciated.
Next on the design docket:
We’re currently looking at ways to alter the design of the widow mine so that it feels like core terran unit. We’re also reevaluating the oracle's third spell: Phase Shift. While Phase Shift is a cool option against Fungal Growth, is not very appealing in other situations. These are the main things we’re looking at right now, so we encourage you to share your feedback regarding these two topics.
Thank you so much for playing the beta and giving us your feedback. Please remember that nothing is final; we’re doing our best on each of the three races and hope to continue working with our players in order to make Heart of the Swarm awesome. -David Kim
Where can I donate $5 to the "Blizzard never makes 1v1 maps again" fund? Why add in shitty maps when there is a TON of mapmakers wanting to make good maps? Cmon..... People need to bitch about this more, or this will be WoL all over again.
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On September 29 2012 08:06 Tao367 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 29 2012 07:57 jcroisdale wrote:
The Mothership core seems so cool now, Like a General of your army to be on the battlefield. So like a hero unit, like the mothership. I am not sure I like this design. I would prefer it to be attached to the nexus like in the early previews.
It's nothing like a hero unit. A hero unit in Warcraft3 could level up, carry item and solo kill a maxed out army. With that said the Mothership core could however be viewed as a "Unique" unit and I don't like the concept of "Unique" units in multiplayer either.
EDIT: Amazing how they managed to sneak in the bunker changes.
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The changes to the MsC are really drastic and awesome at the same time. I imagine that something similar is going to happen to the Widow mine. All in all, I have to thank Blizzard for listening so intently to player feedback. You get a lot of flak, Blizz, but this time, I feel like you did good.
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On September 29 2012 07:52 SarcasmMonster wrote:
Wow, is Entomb changes the new Bunker?
Nope. Let's look at the changes real fast:
+ Show Spoiler [patch notes] +
Balance Update #2:
Entomb’s duration has been reduced to 25 sec, but the health per Entomb has increased to 100.
Balance Update #3:
Entomb’s duration has increased to 30 seconds.
The health of Entombed nodes has increased from 100 to 130.
Balance Update #4:
The duration of Entomb has increased from 30 to 45.
To me, that reads:
Buff, buff, buff.
Entomb was way underpowered at the start of the beta, and the cumulative effect of the changes is that the health per mineral patch was increased from 75 to 130. Bunker changes just increased and reduced build time and didn't really go anywhere.
On a different note: YES, really happy with MSC changes, definitely a huge step in the right direction.
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On September 29 2012 10:32 Crawdad wrote:
The changes to the MsC are really drastic and awesome at the same time. I imagine that something similar is going to happen to the Widow mine. All in all, I have to thank Blizzard for listening so intently to player feedback. You get a lot of flak, Blizz, but this time, I feel like you did good.
Yeah, I feel like they did exactly what I asked them to do. Time to move onto the widow mine. Blizz, please do this:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=372085
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I like the changes. The mines seem much snappier now, quick and don't kill each other. I like the mother ship core changes, as it allows offence, but you can't be sloppy or allow it to get sniped. Also, like that it add some ground offence in the early game
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On September 29 2012 08:10 da_head wrote:Show nested quote +On September 29 2012 08:07 Redox wrote:On September 29 2012 08:00 pmp10 wrote:
I get the purify change but the recall one not so much.
Wasn't the whole purpose of the recall ability to allow early game harassment?
Given the speed of mothership core I have trouble picturing it happen at all. Did you read "Movement speed has increased from 0.47 to 1.875."? you do realize that 1.875 is still pretty slow?
ehh its not that slow. thats like the same speed as the hoverlord... err turbolor.. overlord right?
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On September 29 2012 10:21 Diamond wrote:Show nested quote +On September 29 2012 08:58 SarcasmMonster wrote:As you’ve likely noticed, we’re still actively tuning the numbers on many of the new units we’re introducing in Heart of the Swarm. We’re making these changes after frequently referring to the stats from the beta, our play experiences, discussions taking place on the community forums and fan sites, and pro feedback. We think there’s still a ways to go in terms of number tweaks and are working hard to bring you the best experience possible.
The main design changes for this week are surrounding the mothership core. Due to the variety in maps, we found that no matter how slow we made the mothership core’s movement speed, deadly all-in strategies exist on many different maps and/or positions. To ensure that this unit does not limit us as well as the many tournament map makers around the world, we decided to go in a new direction.
The mothership core’s Purify ability is now cast on a Nexus attaching the unit to the Nexus and enabling a weapon that deals 20 damage. The mothership core will remain attached to the Nexus until cancelled; however, energy will not be regenerated and no abilities can be used while attached. Additionally, the Recall ability has been modified to teleport the mothership core and units nearby to a targeted Nexus. Both of these changes were made to discourage the unit from being used in all-ins. Now that its two spells are strictly defensive, we believe we can make a cooler mothership core. It will now move at a reasonably fast speed and feature an anti-ground attack. We hope these changes will make the unit a lot more fun to use.
We’ve also been carefully monitoring your feedback regarding the map pool and agree that Fractured Glacier isn’t a very competitive 1v1 map. In the future, we will be removing this from the ladder pool and will be replacing it with a new map. Additionally, three Wings of Liberty maps will be added into the beta map pool at a later date. Our current plan is to implement these map pool changes as soon as possible and stick with these eight maps for the remainder of the beta. We anticipate that Heart of the Swarm Season 1 will feature the same map pool; however, this is definitely not set in stone, so feedback on the updated map pool is greatly appreciated.
Next on the design docket:
We’re currently looking at ways to alter the design of the widow mine so that it feels like core terran unit. We’re also reevaluating the oracle's third spell: Phase Shift. While Phase Shift is a cool option against Fungal Growth, is not very appealing in other situations. These are the main things we’re looking at right now, so we encourage you to share your feedback regarding these two topics.
Thank you so much for playing the beta and giving us your feedback. Please remember that nothing is final; we’re doing our best on each of the three races and hope to continue working with our players in order to make Heart of the Swarm awesome. -David Kim Where can I donate $5 to the "Blizzard never makes 1v1 maps again" fund? Why add in shitty maps when there is a TON of mapmakers wanting to make good maps? Cmon..... People need to bitch about this more, or this will be WoL all over again.
Here I started a thread just for you: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=372261
Hopefully we can give good mapmakers more influence over Blizzard's map pool.
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On September 29 2012 10:11 SpunXtain03 wrote:
... Increased swarm host range? =.=
It was needed, Swarm Hosts are pretty awful atm against any Siege tank compositions whether it be Marine/Tank or Mech
Non-Protosses should read the attached Blog before complaining about the lack of their race changes - David Kim said the update was specifically about the Mothership Core and next update is the Widow Mine.
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For people complaining about recall, sorry you're not going to be able to recall at any point in time. Yes, you might actually have to have a fallback point with your harassment. It's still very strong.
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EPT
