• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EST 18:27
CET 00:27
KST 08:27
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
RSL Revival - 2025 Season Finals Preview8RSL Season 3 - Playoffs Preview0RSL Season 3 - RO16 Groups C & D Preview0RSL Season 3 - RO16 Groups A & B Preview2TL.net Map Contest #21: Winners12
Community News
Weekly Cups (Dec 29-Jan 4): Protoss rolls, 2v2 returns6[BSL21] Non-Korean Championship - Starts Jan 103SC2 All-Star Invitational: Jan 17-1822Weekly Cups (Dec 22-28): Classic & MaxPax win, Percival surprises3Weekly Cups (Dec 15-21): Classic wins big, MaxPax & Clem take weeklies3
StarCraft 2
General
Weekly Cups (Dec 29-Jan 4): Protoss rolls, 2v2 returns SC2 All-Star Invitational: Jan 17-18 Weekly Cups (Dec 22-28): Classic & MaxPax win, Percival surprises Chinese SC2 server to reopen; live all-star event in Hangzhou Starcraft 2 Zerg Coach
Tourneys
WardiTV Winter Cup WardiTV Mondays SC2 AI Tournament 2026 OSC Season 13 World Championship uThermal 2v2 Circuit
Strategy
Simple Questions Simple Answers
Custom Maps
Map Editor closed ?
External Content
Mutation # 507 Well Trained Mutation # 506 Warp Zone Mutation # 505 Rise From Ashes Mutation # 504 Retribution
Brood War
General
BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ I would like to say something about StarCraft BW General Discussion StarCraft & BroodWar Campaign Speedrun Quest Data analysis on 70 million replays
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues [BSL21] Grand Finals - Sunday 21:00 CET [BSL21] Non-Korean Championship - Starts Jan 10 SLON Grand Finals – Season 2
Strategy
Game Theory for Starcraft Simple Questions, Simple Answers Current Meta [G] How to get started on ladder as a new Z player
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread General RTS Discussion Thread Nintendo Switch Thread Awesome Games Done Quick 2026! Should offensive tower rushing be viable in RTS games?
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Vanilla Mini Mafia Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas Survivor II: The Amazon Sengoku Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Trading/Investing Thread The Big Programming Thread
Fan Clubs
White-Ra Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List TL+ Announced
Blogs
Life Update and thoughts.
FuDDx
How do archons sleep?
8882
Psychological Factors That D…
TrAiDoS
James Bond movies ranking - pa…
Topin
StarCraft improvement
iopq
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1198 users

HotS Balance Update #4 [9/28/12] - Page 5

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 HotS
500 CommentsPost a Reply
Prev 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 24 25 26 Next All
Sated
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
England4983 Posts
September 29 2012 00:40 GMT
#81
--- Nuked ---
kcdc
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States2311 Posts
September 29 2012 00:44 GMT
#82
On September 29 2012 09:34 denyeverything wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 29 2012 08:24 kcdc wrote:
MsC changes are an improvement. Giving it a reasonable movement speed should make it less frustrating. I wonder what the range is on the low-damage attack.

Blink all-ins will still be good vs Terran. The MsC will still spot for you so you don't need a robo, and it will provide a little damage.

One thing I don't like is that all maps will have to be designed so that important base-defense chokes are near the spot where you'll build your nexus. The game is going to be balanced around P having the option to cast purify on the nexus to attacks, which means every single map will have to position the nexus such that a 10 range cannon on top of the nexus is useful. That already happens on most maps, but it's still a shame to place another constraint on map design options. (Map constraints are already a big problem--check out how the main, natural and thirds are positioined similarly with similar entrances on every single map)


They don't have to be designed that way, because they don't have to accommodate all strategies.


All maps have to accomodate expanding.....

If this mechanic sticks around, I guarantee you will never see a HOTS tournament map where the nexus at the natural is more than 8 range from the ramp into the main. You're also going to see every single map structured so that the cannon on the nexus can defend the choke into the natural so that purify can synergize with forcefields.

Purify is in the game to be a standard defensive tool for taking a second base, and every single map is going to be structured in such a way that purify can be used as intended.
s3rp
Profile Joined May 2011
Germany3192 Posts
September 29 2012 00:46 GMT
#83
On September 29 2012 09:44 kcdc wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 29 2012 09:34 denyeverything wrote:
On September 29 2012 08:24 kcdc wrote:
MsC changes are an improvement. Giving it a reasonable movement speed should make it less frustrating. I wonder what the range is on the low-damage attack.

Blink all-ins will still be good vs Terran. The MsC will still spot for you so you don't need a robo, and it will provide a little damage.

One thing I don't like is that all maps will have to be designed so that important base-defense chokes are near the spot where you'll build your nexus. The game is going to be balanced around P having the option to cast purify on the nexus to attacks, which means every single map will have to position the nexus such that a 10 range cannon on top of the nexus is useful. That already happens on most maps, but it's still a shame to place another constraint on map design options. (Map constraints are already a big problem--check out how the main, natural and thirds are positioined similarly with similar entrances on every single map)


They don't have to be designed that way, because they don't have to accommodate all strategies.


All maps have to accomodate expanding.....

If this mechanic sticks around, I guarantee you will never see a HOTS tournament map where the nexus at the natural is more than 8 range from the ramp into the main. You're also going to see every single map structured so that the cannon on the nexus can defend the choke into the natural so that purify can synergize with forcefields.

Purify is in the game to be a standard defensive tool for taking a second base, and every single map is going to be structured in such a way that purify can be used as intended.


I disagree with this expanding even the first one should never be taken for granted automatically . Makes for boring games.
sour_eraser
Profile Joined March 2011
Canada932 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-09-29 00:48:55
September 29 2012 00:48 GMT
#84
Hmm interesting. Little sad about lack of Terran changes though
"What's the f*cking point of censoring a letter if everyone and their mother knows what it stands for.... F*cking morons"
Yonnua
Profile Blog Joined October 2011
United Kingdom2331 Posts
September 29 2012 00:49 GMT
#85
Loving the mothership core changes; solves a lot of the offensive issues while maintaining the core's defensive potential. Still preferred the initial idea of being attached to the nexus and being able to jump between them but this is definitely a step in the right direction.
LRSL 2014 Finalist! PartinG | Mvp | Bomber | Creator | NaNiwa | herO
Piousflea
Profile Joined February 2010
United States259 Posts
September 29 2012 00:53 GMT
#86
If they want to replace Phase Shield with something more interesting that still counters Fungals they should do this:

Phase Shift 100 energy
All friendly and enemy units within 6 range are briefly shifted out of reality, removing all Harmful effects and decreasing damage dealt and damage taken by 50% for 5 seconds. Units may still move and use abilities while Shifted.

This would have a very similar effect as an anti-Fungal but could also be used as a "pause button" to slow down a fight. Void rays would still be able to gain charge-up while shifted.
Seek, behold, and reveal the truth
kcdc
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States2311 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-09-29 00:54:10
September 29 2012 00:53 GMT
#87
On September 29 2012 09:46 s3rp wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 29 2012 09:44 kcdc wrote:
On September 29 2012 09:34 denyeverything wrote:
On September 29 2012 08:24 kcdc wrote:
MsC changes are an improvement. Giving it a reasonable movement speed should make it less frustrating. I wonder what the range is on the low-damage attack.

Blink all-ins will still be good vs Terran. The MsC will still spot for you so you don't need a robo, and it will provide a little damage.

One thing I don't like is that all maps will have to be designed so that important base-defense chokes are near the spot where you'll build your nexus. The game is going to be balanced around P having the option to cast purify on the nexus to attacks, which means every single map will have to position the nexus such that a 10 range cannon on top of the nexus is useful. That already happens on most maps, but it's still a shame to place another constraint on map design options. (Map constraints are already a big problem--check out how the main, natural and thirds are positioined similarly with similar entrances on every single map)


They don't have to be designed that way, because they don't have to accommodate all strategies.


All maps have to accomodate expanding.....

If this mechanic sticks around, I guarantee you will never see a HOTS tournament map where the nexus at the natural is more than 8 range from the ramp into the main. You're also going to see every single map structured so that the cannon on the nexus can defend the choke into the natural so that purify can synergize with forcefields.

Purify is in the game to be a standard defensive tool for taking a second base, and every single map is going to be structured in such a way that purify can be used as intended.


I disagree with this expanding even the first one should never be taken for granted automatically . Makes for boring games.


Yeah, there should be some maps without expansions. Having the option to expand every game is boring.
SarcasmMonster
Profile Joined October 2011
3136 Posts
September 29 2012 00:56 GMT
#88
I hope they're tuning the Mothership core in such a way that they can alter Warpgate/Forcefield down the line without nerfing 's early game.
MMA: The true King of Wings
s3rp
Profile Joined May 2011
Germany3192 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-09-29 01:00:49
September 29 2012 00:56 GMT
#89
On September 29 2012 09:53 kcdc wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 29 2012 09:46 s3rp wrote:
On September 29 2012 09:44 kcdc wrote:
On September 29 2012 09:34 denyeverything wrote:
On September 29 2012 08:24 kcdc wrote:
MsC changes are an improvement. Giving it a reasonable movement speed should make it less frustrating. I wonder what the range is on the low-damage attack.

Blink all-ins will still be good vs Terran. The MsC will still spot for you so you don't need a robo, and it will provide a little damage.

One thing I don't like is that all maps will have to be designed so that important base-defense chokes are near the spot where you'll build your nexus. The game is going to be balanced around P having the option to cast purify on the nexus to attacks, which means every single map will have to position the nexus such that a 10 range cannon on top of the nexus is useful. That already happens on most maps, but it's still a shame to place another constraint on map design options. (Map constraints are already a big problem--check out how the main, natural and thirds are positioined similarly with similar entrances on every single map)


They don't have to be designed that way, because they don't have to accommodate all strategies.


All maps have to accomodate expanding.....

If this mechanic sticks around, I guarantee you will never see a HOTS tournament map where the nexus at the natural is more than 8 range from the ramp into the main. You're also going to see every single map structured so that the cannon on the nexus can defend the choke into the natural so that purify can synergize with forcefields.

Purify is in the game to be a standard defensive tool for taking a second base, and every single map is going to be structured in such a way that purify can be used as intended.


I disagree with this expanding even the first one should never be taken for granted automatically . Makes for boring games.


Yeah, there should be some maps without expansions. Having the option to expand every game is boring.


No but super fast expanding should be a calculated risk that can be exploited not be super duper save. A few sentrys and a mothership core alone should not keep you save against aggressive builds on more then 1 base.
ReachTheSky
Profile Joined April 2010
United States3294 Posts
September 29 2012 00:56 GMT
#90
The entomb change is going to be HUGE in pvp.
TL+ Member
Swish 41
Profile Joined September 2012
Germany154 Posts
September 29 2012 00:57 GMT
#91
Terran is still fucked up. The only viable new unit requires a Armory WTF!
RaiKageRyu
Profile Joined August 2009
Canada4773 Posts
September 29 2012 00:58 GMT
#92
I'm not saying this is bad for the game nor am I stating I like this change of direction. But damn man, Protoss is in essence War3 more than ever.
Someone call down the Thunder?
Cabinet Sanchez
Profile Joined February 2011
Australia1097 Posts
September 29 2012 00:59 GMT
#93
On September 29 2012 08:25 Cyanocyst wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 29 2012 08:16 Cabinet Sanchez wrote:
Ugh Locust attack range back up, as far as I'm concerned it should be melee, the fucking unit is completely free.


Right now in Wol, Melee upgrades are far more beneficial, in comparison to range. If they were to make locusts also melee. They are even more so overloading the benefits for melee over range.

I honestly think that the balance between these upgrades, is the main reason to why they switched them over to ranged.




It just plain looks retarded - if it's scaling with melee upgrades then make the base damage lower?
The unit itself looks silly (at least when firing) I really do like the idea in many ways but I feel ranged units aren't the right way for this.
ReachTheSky
Profile Joined April 2010
United States3294 Posts
September 29 2012 01:03 GMT
#94
On September 29 2012 09:57 Swish 41 wrote:
Terran is still fucked up. The only viable new unit requires a Armory WTF!


They should definitely get rid of the armory requirement but increase the cost of the upgrade to the same price as the blue flame upgrade.
TL+ Member
playa
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States1284 Posts
September 29 2012 01:03 GMT
#95
This can't be the best way to compensate for offensive usage you didn't want to see. Back to WoL until the next "fix." May as well just remove all of the toss units, to eliminate the distraction of pointless stuff.
denyeverything
Profile Joined March 2012
25 Posts
September 29 2012 01:05 GMT
#96
On September 29 2012 09:44 kcdc wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 29 2012 09:34 denyeverything wrote:
On September 29 2012 08:24 kcdc wrote:
MsC changes are an improvement. Giving it a reasonable movement speed should make it less frustrating. I wonder what the range is on the low-damage attack.

Blink all-ins will still be good vs Terran. The MsC will still spot for you so you don't need a robo, and it will provide a little damage.

One thing I don't like is that all maps will have to be designed so that important base-defense chokes are near the spot where you'll build your nexus. The game is going to be balanced around P having the option to cast purify on the nexus to attacks, which means every single map will have to position the nexus such that a 10 range cannon on top of the nexus is useful. That already happens on most maps, but it's still a shame to place another constraint on map design options. (Map constraints are already a big problem--check out how the main, natural and thirds are positioined similarly with similar entrances on every single map)


They don't have to be designed that way, because they don't have to accommodate all strategies.


All maps have to accomodate expanding.....

If this mechanic sticks around, I guarantee you will never see a HOTS tournament map where the nexus at the natural is more than 8 range from the ramp into the main. You're also going to see every single map structured so that the cannon on the nexus can defend the choke into the natural so that purify can synergize with forcefields.

Purify is in the game to be a standard defensive tool for taking a second base, and every single map is going to be structured in such a way that purify can be used as intended.


I meant, they don't have to accommodate using Purify. Perhaps, I'm uninformed, so correct me if I'm wrong, but I didn't think that Protoss players had been one-basing the entire time waiting for Purify to come around.

And more to the details of your post, if tournament maps are tailoring to specific strategies (and I completely agree with you that they do), does it really matter? If they are just going to tailor a map to accommodate "staple strategy," then the notion of their being "design constraints" is illusionary, because they aren't designing. They are just following someone else's instructions, and thus nothing is lost. I actually think that this sort of take-the-meta-by-the-hand approach is more of a downside for the game's development than a plus. Sure, you appease the player base by giving them what they expect. But if that's all you're going to do, there's never going to be anything new or at least it's going to become increasingly rare. I.e. I'd rather see players figuring out a map, then maps figuring out players.
SarcasmMonster
Profile Joined October 2011
3136 Posts
September 29 2012 01:05 GMT
#97
Those who don't like the M-Core change can blame kcdc
MMA: The true King of Wings
kcdc
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States2311 Posts
September 29 2012 01:05 GMT
#98
On September 29 2012 09:56 s3rp wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 29 2012 09:53 kcdc wrote:
On September 29 2012 09:46 s3rp wrote:
On September 29 2012 09:44 kcdc wrote:
On September 29 2012 09:34 denyeverything wrote:
On September 29 2012 08:24 kcdc wrote:
MsC changes are an improvement. Giving it a reasonable movement speed should make it less frustrating. I wonder what the range is on the low-damage attack.

Blink all-ins will still be good vs Terran. The MsC will still spot for you so you don't need a robo, and it will provide a little damage.

One thing I don't like is that all maps will have to be designed so that important base-defense chokes are near the spot where you'll build your nexus. The game is going to be balanced around P having the option to cast purify on the nexus to attacks, which means every single map will have to position the nexus such that a 10 range cannon on top of the nexus is useful. That already happens on most maps, but it's still a shame to place another constraint on map design options. (Map constraints are already a big problem--check out how the main, natural and thirds are positioined similarly with similar entrances on every single map)


They don't have to be designed that way, because they don't have to accommodate all strategies.


All maps have to accomodate expanding.....

If this mechanic sticks around, I guarantee you will never see a HOTS tournament map where the nexus at the natural is more than 8 range from the ramp into the main. You're also going to see every single map structured so that the cannon on the nexus can defend the choke into the natural so that purify can synergize with forcefields.

Purify is in the game to be a standard defensive tool for taking a second base, and every single map is going to be structured in such a way that purify can be used as intended.


I disagree with this expanding even the first one should never be taken for granted automatically . Makes for boring games.


Yeah, there should be some maps without expansions. Having the option to expand every game is boring.


No but super fast expanding should be a calculated risk that can be exploited not be super duper save. A few sentrys and a mothership core alone should not keep you save against aggressive builds on more then 1 base.


They're giving P the option to put a 10 range cannon on their nexus so that it will be possible to defend an expansion in PvP. On any map where you can't defend with the nexus-cannon, PvP expansions won't happen. This is why every map will position the nexus and the ramps so that you can defend them with the nexus-cannon.
KrazyTrumpet
Profile Joined April 2010
United States2520 Posts
September 29 2012 01:06 GMT
#99
On September 29 2012 09:34 denyeverything wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 29 2012 08:24 kcdc wrote:
MsC changes are an improvement. Giving it a reasonable movement speed should make it less frustrating. I wonder what the range is on the low-damage attack.

Blink all-ins will still be good vs Terran. The MsC will still spot for you so you don't need a robo, and it will provide a little damage.

One thing I don't like is that all maps will have to be designed so that important base-defense chokes are near the spot where you'll build your nexus. The game is going to be balanced around P having the option to cast purify on the nexus to attacks, which means every single map will have to position the nexus such that a 10 range cannon on top of the nexus is useful. That already happens on most maps, but it's still a shame to place another constraint on map design options. (Map constraints are already a big problem--check out how the main, natural and thirds are positioined similarly with similar entrances on every single map)


They don't have to be designed that way, because they don't have to accommodate all strategies.

And I like the changes as well. I think people are overreacting to the whole Recall "nerf." Honestly, having additional attack power (which is like one and a half stalkers) for no energy (if i'm understanding correctly), is a pretty nice balance to go alongside having to tag along with it. And it reasonably gives the opponent the ability to address it (by killing the MSC), rather than just being free (which is kind of crazy). It still allows for some pretty strong MSC backed pushes, and again going up 50/50 to add a Stalker+ in damage (which is cheaper that an actual Stalker for that damage), means that it's a technically stronger push.

Plus, let's also not forget that Purify also enhances these pushes too. You push out, hit the edge of their base, and they drop your main. Well... you don't want to Recall (because you believe you can crack it), but you also don't want to just let the drop happen unhindered. That's when you Purify.

Basically:

Opponent has better army = Recall out.
Opponent splits army = Purify out.

Sounds pretty good to me.

Is Entomb good now? lol.


You have to be within 10 range of the nexus to cast Purify on it.
www.twitch.tv/krazy Best Stream Quality NA @KClarkSC2
pmp10
Profile Joined April 2012
3378 Posts
September 29 2012 01:07 GMT
#100
It just occurred to me that the widow mine change means that Blizzard expects it to be used offensively.
A few more changes like this and the whole unit won't look or work anything like a mine anymore.
Prev 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 24 25 26 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 1d 4h
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
PiGStarcraft371
JuggernautJason128
Nathanias 114
StarCraft: Brood War
Britney 14838
Artosis 396
Larva 166
Shuttle 135
Sexy 28
NaDa 17
Dota 2
syndereN376
febbydoto26
League of Legends
JimRising 710
Counter-Strike
Foxcn144
minikerr53
Super Smash Bros
PPMD7
Other Games
summit1g7171
tarik_tv6695
Grubby3315
Liquid`RaSZi2356
ToD236
B2W.Neo230
ViBE84
Fuzer 63
Maynarde23
Chillindude21
rubinoeu11
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick41863
StarCraft 2
angryscii 36
Other Games
BasetradeTV32
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 18 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• RyuSc2 53
• musti20045 43
• Kozan
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• sooper7s
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Migwel
• IndyKCrew
StarCraft: Brood War
• Azhi_Dahaki20
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
• BSLYoutube
Dota 2
• masondota22104
League of Legends
• Doublelift6031
Other Games
• imaqtpie2126
• WagamamaTV300
• Shiphtur256
Upcoming Events
SOOP
1d 4h
SHIN vs GuMiho
Cure vs Creator
The PondCast
1d 10h
Wardi Open
1d 12h
Big Gabe XPERIONCRAFT
1d 13h
Sparkling Tuna Cup
2 days
WardiTV Invitational
2 days
IPSL
2 days
DragOn vs Sziky
Replay Cast
3 days
Wardi Open
3 days
Monday Night Weeklies
3 days
[ Show More ]
WardiTV Invitational
4 days
WardiTV Invitational
5 days
The PondCast
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2026-01-06
WardiTV 2025
META Madness #9

Ongoing

C-Race Season 1
IPSL Winter 2025-26
OSC Championship Season 13
eXTREMESLAND 2025
SL Budapest Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 8
BLAST Rivals Fall 2025
IEM Chengdu 2025
PGL Masters Bucharest 2025

Upcoming

Escore Tournament S1: W3
BSL 21 Non-Korean Championship
CSL 2025 WINTER (S19)
Acropolis #4
IPSL Spring 2026
Bellum Gens Elite Stara Zagora 2026
HSC XXVIII
Rongyi Cup S3
Thunderfire SC2 All-star 2025
Big Gabe Cup #3
Nations Cup 2026
Underdog Cup #3
NA Kuram Kup
BLAST Open Spring 2026
ESL Pro League Season 23
ESL Pro League Season 23
PGL Cluj-Napoca 2026
IEM Kraków 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter Qual
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.