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On September 29 2012 09:34 denyeverything wrote:Show nested quote +On September 29 2012 08:24 kcdc wrote:
MsC changes are an improvement. Giving it a reasonable movement speed should make it less frustrating. I wonder what the range is on the low-damage attack.
Blink all-ins will still be good vs Terran. The MsC will still spot for you so you don't need a robo, and it will provide a little damage.
One thing I don't like is that all maps will have to be designed so that important base-defense chokes are near the spot where you'll build your nexus. The game is going to be balanced around P having the option to cast purify on the nexus to attacks, which means every single map will have to position the nexus such that a 10 range cannon on top of the nexus is useful. That already happens on most maps, but it's still a shame to place another constraint on map design options. (Map constraints are already a big problem--check out how the main, natural and thirds are positioined similarly with similar entrances on every single map) They don't have to be designed that way, because they don't have to accommodate all strategies.
All maps have to accomodate expanding.....
If this mechanic sticks around, I guarantee you will never see a HOTS tournament map where the nexus at the natural is more than 8 range from the ramp into the main. You're also going to see every single map structured so that the cannon on the nexus can defend the choke into the natural so that purify can synergize with forcefields.
Purify is in the game to be a standard defensive tool for taking a second base, and every single map is going to be structured in such a way that purify can be used as intended.
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On September 29 2012 09:44 kcdc wrote:Show nested quote +On September 29 2012 09:34 denyeverything wrote:On September 29 2012 08:24 kcdc wrote:
MsC changes are an improvement. Giving it a reasonable movement speed should make it less frustrating. I wonder what the range is on the low-damage attack.
Blink all-ins will still be good vs Terran. The MsC will still spot for you so you don't need a robo, and it will provide a little damage.
One thing I don't like is that all maps will have to be designed so that important base-defense chokes are near the spot where you'll build your nexus. The game is going to be balanced around P having the option to cast purify on the nexus to attacks, which means every single map will have to position the nexus such that a 10 range cannon on top of the nexus is useful. That already happens on most maps, but it's still a shame to place another constraint on map design options. (Map constraints are already a big problem--check out how the main, natural and thirds are positioined similarly with similar entrances on every single map) They don't have to be designed that way, because they don't have to accommodate all strategies. All maps have to accomodate expanding..... If this mechanic sticks around, I guarantee you will never see a HOTS tournament map where the nexus at the natural is more than 8 range from the ramp into the main. You're also going to see every single map structured so that the cannon on the nexus can defend the choke into the natural so that purify can synergize with forcefields. Purify is in the game to be a standard defensive tool for taking a second base, and every single map is going to be structured in such a way that purify can be used as intended.
I disagree with this expanding even the first one should never be taken for granted automatically . Makes for boring games.
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Hmm interesting. Little sad about lack of Terran changes though 
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Loving the mothership core changes; solves a lot of the offensive issues while maintaining the core's defensive potential. Still preferred the initial idea of being attached to the nexus and being able to jump between them but this is definitely a step in the right direction. 
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If they want to replace Phase Shield with something more interesting that still counters Fungals they should do this:
Phase Shift 100 energy
All friendly and enemy units within 6 range are briefly shifted out of reality, removing all Harmful effects and decreasing damage dealt and damage taken by 50% for 5 seconds. Units may still move and use abilities while Shifted.
This would have a very similar effect as an anti-Fungal but could also be used as a "pause button" to slow down a fight. Void rays would still be able to gain charge-up while shifted.
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On September 29 2012 09:46 s3rp wrote:Show nested quote +On September 29 2012 09:44 kcdc wrote:On September 29 2012 09:34 denyeverything wrote:On September 29 2012 08:24 kcdc wrote:
MsC changes are an improvement. Giving it a reasonable movement speed should make it less frustrating. I wonder what the range is on the low-damage attack.
Blink all-ins will still be good vs Terran. The MsC will still spot for you so you don't need a robo, and it will provide a little damage.
One thing I don't like is that all maps will have to be designed so that important base-defense chokes are near the spot where you'll build your nexus. The game is going to be balanced around P having the option to cast purify on the nexus to attacks, which means every single map will have to position the nexus such that a 10 range cannon on top of the nexus is useful. That already happens on most maps, but it's still a shame to place another constraint on map design options. (Map constraints are already a big problem--check out how the main, natural and thirds are positioined similarly with similar entrances on every single map) They don't have to be designed that way, because they don't have to accommodate all strategies. All maps have to accomodate expanding..... If this mechanic sticks around, I guarantee you will never see a HOTS tournament map where the nexus at the natural is more than 8 range from the ramp into the main. You're also going to see every single map structured so that the cannon on the nexus can defend the choke into the natural so that purify can synergize with forcefields. Purify is in the game to be a standard defensive tool for taking a second base, and every single map is going to be structured in such a way that purify can be used as intended. I disagree with this expanding even the first one should never be taken for granted automatically . Makes for boring games.
Yeah, there should be some maps without expansions. Having the option to expand every game is boring.
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I hope they're tuning the Mothership core in such a way that they can alter Warpgate/Forcefield down the line without nerfing  's early game.
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On September 29 2012 09:53 kcdc wrote:Show nested quote +On September 29 2012 09:46 s3rp wrote:On September 29 2012 09:44 kcdc wrote:On September 29 2012 09:34 denyeverything wrote:On September 29 2012 08:24 kcdc wrote:
MsC changes are an improvement. Giving it a reasonable movement speed should make it less frustrating. I wonder what the range is on the low-damage attack.
Blink all-ins will still be good vs Terran. The MsC will still spot for you so you don't need a robo, and it will provide a little damage.
One thing I don't like is that all maps will have to be designed so that important base-defense chokes are near the spot where you'll build your nexus. The game is going to be balanced around P having the option to cast purify on the nexus to attacks, which means every single map will have to position the nexus such that a 10 range cannon on top of the nexus is useful. That already happens on most maps, but it's still a shame to place another constraint on map design options. (Map constraints are already a big problem--check out how the main, natural and thirds are positioined similarly with similar entrances on every single map) They don't have to be designed that way, because they don't have to accommodate all strategies. All maps have to accomodate expanding..... If this mechanic sticks around, I guarantee you will never see a HOTS tournament map where the nexus at the natural is more than 8 range from the ramp into the main. You're also going to see every single map structured so that the cannon on the nexus can defend the choke into the natural so that purify can synergize with forcefields. Purify is in the game to be a standard defensive tool for taking a second base, and every single map is going to be structured in such a way that purify can be used as intended. I disagree with this expanding even the first one should never be taken for granted automatically . Makes for boring games. Yeah, there should be some maps without expansions. Having the option to expand every game is boring.
No but super fast expanding should be a calculated risk that can be exploited not be super duper save. A few sentrys and a mothership core alone should not keep you save against aggressive builds on more then 1 base.
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The entomb change is going to be HUGE in pvp.
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Terran is still fucked up. The only viable new unit requires a Armory WTF!
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I'm not saying this is bad for the game nor am I stating I like this change of direction. But damn man, Protoss is in essence War3 more than ever.
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On September 29 2012 08:25 Cyanocyst wrote:Show nested quote +On September 29 2012 08:16 Cabinet Sanchez wrote:
Ugh Locust attack range back up, as far as I'm concerned it should be melee, the fucking unit is completely free. Right now in Wol, Melee upgrades are far more beneficial, in comparison to range. If they were to make locusts also melee. They are even more so overloading the benefits for melee over range. I honestly think that the balance between these upgrades, is the main reason to why they switched them over to ranged.
It just plain looks retarded - if it's scaling with melee upgrades then make the base damage lower?
The unit itself looks silly (at least when firing) I really do like the idea in many ways but I feel ranged units aren't the right way for this.
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On September 29 2012 09:57 Swish 41 wrote:
Terran is still fucked up. The only viable new unit requires a Armory WTF!
They should definitely get rid of the armory requirement but increase the cost of the upgrade to the same price as the blue flame upgrade.
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This can't be the best way to compensate for offensive usage you didn't want to see. Back to WoL until the next "fix." May as well just remove all of the toss units, to eliminate the distraction of pointless stuff.
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On September 29 2012 09:44 kcdc wrote:Show nested quote +On September 29 2012 09:34 denyeverything wrote:On September 29 2012 08:24 kcdc wrote:
MsC changes are an improvement. Giving it a reasonable movement speed should make it less frustrating. I wonder what the range is on the low-damage attack.
Blink all-ins will still be good vs Terran. The MsC will still spot for you so you don't need a robo, and it will provide a little damage.
One thing I don't like is that all maps will have to be designed so that important base-defense chokes are near the spot where you'll build your nexus. The game is going to be balanced around P having the option to cast purify on the nexus to attacks, which means every single map will have to position the nexus such that a 10 range cannon on top of the nexus is useful. That already happens on most maps, but it's still a shame to place another constraint on map design options. (Map constraints are already a big problem--check out how the main, natural and thirds are positioined similarly with similar entrances on every single map) They don't have to be designed that way, because they don't have to accommodate all strategies. All maps have to accomodate expanding..... If this mechanic sticks around, I guarantee you will never see a HOTS tournament map where the nexus at the natural is more than 8 range from the ramp into the main. You're also going to see every single map structured so that the cannon on the nexus can defend the choke into the natural so that purify can synergize with forcefields. Purify is in the game to be a standard defensive tool for taking a second base, and every single map is going to be structured in such a way that purify can be used as intended.
I meant, they don't have to accommodate using Purify. Perhaps, I'm uninformed, so correct me if I'm wrong, but I didn't think that Protoss players had been one-basing the entire time waiting for Purify to come around.
And more to the details of your post, if tournament maps are tailoring to specific strategies (and I completely agree with you that they do), does it really matter? If they are just going to tailor a map to accommodate "staple strategy," then the notion of their being "design constraints" is illusionary, because they aren't designing. They are just following someone else's instructions, and thus nothing is lost. I actually think that this sort of take-the-meta-by-the-hand approach is more of a downside for the game's development than a plus. Sure, you appease the player base by giving them what they expect. But if that's all you're going to do, there's never going to be anything new or at least it's going to become increasingly rare. I.e. I'd rather see players figuring out a map, then maps figuring out players.
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Those who don't like the M-Core change can blame kcdc 
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On September 29 2012 09:56 s3rp wrote:Show nested quote +On September 29 2012 09:53 kcdc wrote:On September 29 2012 09:46 s3rp wrote:On September 29 2012 09:44 kcdc wrote:On September 29 2012 09:34 denyeverything wrote:On September 29 2012 08:24 kcdc wrote:
MsC changes are an improvement. Giving it a reasonable movement speed should make it less frustrating. I wonder what the range is on the low-damage attack.
Blink all-ins will still be good vs Terran. The MsC will still spot for you so you don't need a robo, and it will provide a little damage.
One thing I don't like is that all maps will have to be designed so that important base-defense chokes are near the spot where you'll build your nexus. The game is going to be balanced around P having the option to cast purify on the nexus to attacks, which means every single map will have to position the nexus such that a 10 range cannon on top of the nexus is useful. That already happens on most maps, but it's still a shame to place another constraint on map design options. (Map constraints are already a big problem--check out how the main, natural and thirds are positioined similarly with similar entrances on every single map) They don't have to be designed that way, because they don't have to accommodate all strategies. All maps have to accomodate expanding..... If this mechanic sticks around, I guarantee you will never see a HOTS tournament map where the nexus at the natural is more than 8 range from the ramp into the main. You're also going to see every single map structured so that the cannon on the nexus can defend the choke into the natural so that purify can synergize with forcefields. Purify is in the game to be a standard defensive tool for taking a second base, and every single map is going to be structured in such a way that purify can be used as intended. I disagree with this expanding even the first one should never be taken for granted automatically . Makes for boring games. Yeah, there should be some maps without expansions. Having the option to expand every game is boring. No but super fast expanding should be a calculated risk that can be exploited not be super duper save. A few sentrys and a mothership core alone should not keep you save against aggressive builds on more then 1 base.
They're giving P the option to put a 10 range cannon on their nexus so that it will be possible to defend an expansion in PvP. On any map where you can't defend with the nexus-cannon, PvP expansions won't happen. This is why every map will position the nexus and the ramps so that you can defend them with the nexus-cannon.
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On September 29 2012 09:34 denyeverything wrote:Show nested quote +On September 29 2012 08:24 kcdc wrote:
MsC changes are an improvement. Giving it a reasonable movement speed should make it less frustrating. I wonder what the range is on the low-damage attack.
Blink all-ins will still be good vs Terran. The MsC will still spot for you so you don't need a robo, and it will provide a little damage.
One thing I don't like is that all maps will have to be designed so that important base-defense chokes are near the spot where you'll build your nexus. The game is going to be balanced around P having the option to cast purify on the nexus to attacks, which means every single map will have to position the nexus such that a 10 range cannon on top of the nexus is useful. That already happens on most maps, but it's still a shame to place another constraint on map design options. (Map constraints are already a big problem--check out how the main, natural and thirds are positioined similarly with similar entrances on every single map) They don't have to be designed that way, because they don't have to accommodate all strategies. And I like the changes as well. I think people are overreacting to the whole Recall "nerf." Honestly, having additional attack power (which is like one and a half stalkers) for no energy (if i'm understanding correctly), is a pretty nice balance to go alongside having to tag along with it. And it reasonably gives the opponent the ability to address it (by killing the MSC), rather than just being free (which is kind of crazy). It still allows for some pretty strong MSC backed pushes, and again going up 50/50 to add a Stalker+ in damage (which is cheaper that an actual Stalker for that damage), means that it's a technically stronger push. Plus, let's also not forget that Purify also enhances these pushes too. You push out, hit the edge of their base, and they drop your main. Well... you don't want to Recall (because you believe you can crack it), but you also don't want to just let the drop happen unhindered. That's when you Purify. Basically: Opponent has better army = Recall out. Opponent splits army = Purify out. Sounds pretty good to me. Is Entomb good now? lol.
You have to be within 10 range of the nexus to cast Purify on it.
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It just occurred to me that the widow mine change means that Blizzard expects it to be used offensively.
A few more changes like this and the whole unit won't look or work anything like a mine anymore.
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EPT
