• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 00:13
CEST 06:13
KST 13:13
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Serral wins HomeStory Cup 2914Serral wins Maestros of the Game 243ByuL, and the Limitations of Standard Play3Team Liquid Map Contest #22: Results and Winners7Code S Season 2 (2026): RO4 and Finals Preview12
Community News
Weekly Cups (July 27-Aug 2): SHIN's big week0SC4ALL II: Brood War - $2500 - Dec 5-69SC4ALL II announced - $10,000 prize pool, Dec 5-64PIG STY FESTIVAL 8.0! (13 - 23 August)14Neeb returns to progaming; rejoins ONSYDE18
StarCraft 2
General
StarCraft 2 at SC4ALL II Invite #4/8 - Percival Balance hotfix patch 5.0.16b (July 16) Protoss AoE skill expression 5.0.16 patch for SC2 goes live (8 worker start) StarCraft 2 at SC4ALL II Invite #3/8 - Clem
Tourneys
Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament PIG STY FESTIVAL 8.0! (13 - 23 August) Tasteless Time Warp: SC Evo Showmatch (May 25) SC4ALL II announced - $10,000 prize pool, Dec 5-6 RSL Revival: Season 6 - Qualifiers and Main Event
Strategy
[G] Having the right mentality to improve
Custom Maps
Nexus Wars 2021 GUIDE [M] (2) Industrial Park
External Content
The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 537 Hostile Territory Mutation # 536 Railroad Switch Mutation # 535 Assembly of Vengeance
Brood War
General
ASL 22 Proposed Map Pool Recent recommended BW games Making an Online Broodwar Manager Game ASL22 General Discussion [Personal Project Share] Terran Defense v0.60
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues Escore Tournament - Season 3 KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 3 SC4ALL II: Brood War - $2500 - Dec 5-6
Strategy
Odyssey Mineral Stack Saturation Any training maps people recommend? Fighting Spirit mining rates Simple Questions, Simple Answers
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread General RTS Discussion Thread Nintendo Switch Thread ZeroSpace Early Access is Now Live! Beyond All Reason
Dota 2
Looking for a Dota Mentor Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
[TL LoL EUW IHs] Teemo shall perish TSM pausing esports and CLG Dead
Heroes of the Storm
Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Power Rank TL Mafia Community Thread NeO.D_StephenKing vs This Guy From 1 Million Dance
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread The Games Industry And ATVI Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Artificial Intelligence Thread
Fan Clubs
The Clem Fan Club INnoVation Fan Club The Scarlett Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread Movie Discussion! Series you have seen recently... [Req][Books] Good Fantasy/SciFi books
Sports
NBA General Discussion Football (Soccer) Thread TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 Formula 1 Discussion MLB/Baseball 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread Simple Questions Simple Answers FPS when play League Of Legend on laptop
TL Community
The Automated Ban List Northern Ireland Global Starcraft
Blogs
Please support my new stand…
Peanutsc
What is a Gamer?
TrAiDoS
Hello guys!
LIN1s
ASL S22 English Commentary…
namkraft
Poker (part 2)
Nebuchad
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 4530 users

HotS Balance Update #4 [9/28/12] - Page 5

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 HotS
500 CommentsPost a Reply
Prev 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 24 25 26 Next All
Sated
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
England4983 Posts
September 29 2012 00:40 GMT
#81
--- Nuked ---
kcdc
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States2311 Posts
September 29 2012 00:44 GMT
#82
On September 29 2012 09:34 denyeverything wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 29 2012 08:24 kcdc wrote:
MsC changes are an improvement. Giving it a reasonable movement speed should make it less frustrating. I wonder what the range is on the low-damage attack.

Blink all-ins will still be good vs Terran. The MsC will still spot for you so you don't need a robo, and it will provide a little damage.

One thing I don't like is that all maps will have to be designed so that important base-defense chokes are near the spot where you'll build your nexus. The game is going to be balanced around P having the option to cast purify on the nexus to attacks, which means every single map will have to position the nexus such that a 10 range cannon on top of the nexus is useful. That already happens on most maps, but it's still a shame to place another constraint on map design options. (Map constraints are already a big problem--check out how the main, natural and thirds are positioined similarly with similar entrances on every single map)


They don't have to be designed that way, because they don't have to accommodate all strategies.


All maps have to accomodate expanding.....

If this mechanic sticks around, I guarantee you will never see a HOTS tournament map where the nexus at the natural is more than 8 range from the ramp into the main. You're also going to see every single map structured so that the cannon on the nexus can defend the choke into the natural so that purify can synergize with forcefields.

Purify is in the game to be a standard defensive tool for taking a second base, and every single map is going to be structured in such a way that purify can be used as intended.
s3rp
Profile Joined May 2011
Germany3192 Posts
September 29 2012 00:46 GMT
#83
On September 29 2012 09:44 kcdc wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 29 2012 09:34 denyeverything wrote:
On September 29 2012 08:24 kcdc wrote:
MsC changes are an improvement. Giving it a reasonable movement speed should make it less frustrating. I wonder what the range is on the low-damage attack.

Blink all-ins will still be good vs Terran. The MsC will still spot for you so you don't need a robo, and it will provide a little damage.

One thing I don't like is that all maps will have to be designed so that important base-defense chokes are near the spot where you'll build your nexus. The game is going to be balanced around P having the option to cast purify on the nexus to attacks, which means every single map will have to position the nexus such that a 10 range cannon on top of the nexus is useful. That already happens on most maps, but it's still a shame to place another constraint on map design options. (Map constraints are already a big problem--check out how the main, natural and thirds are positioined similarly with similar entrances on every single map)


They don't have to be designed that way, because they don't have to accommodate all strategies.


All maps have to accomodate expanding.....

If this mechanic sticks around, I guarantee you will never see a HOTS tournament map where the nexus at the natural is more than 8 range from the ramp into the main. You're also going to see every single map structured so that the cannon on the nexus can defend the choke into the natural so that purify can synergize with forcefields.

Purify is in the game to be a standard defensive tool for taking a second base, and every single map is going to be structured in such a way that purify can be used as intended.


I disagree with this expanding even the first one should never be taken for granted automatically . Makes for boring games.
sour_eraser
Profile Joined March 2011
Canada932 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-09-29 00:48:55
September 29 2012 00:48 GMT
#84
Hmm interesting. Little sad about lack of Terran changes though
"What's the f*cking point of censoring a letter if everyone and their mother knows what it stands for.... F*cking morons"
Yonnua
Profile Blog Joined October 2011
United Kingdom2331 Posts
September 29 2012 00:49 GMT
#85
Loving the mothership core changes; solves a lot of the offensive issues while maintaining the core's defensive potential. Still preferred the initial idea of being attached to the nexus and being able to jump between them but this is definitely a step in the right direction.
LRSL 2014 Finalist! PartinG | Mvp | Bomber | Creator | NaNiwa | herO
Piousflea
Profile Joined February 2010
United States259 Posts
September 29 2012 00:53 GMT
#86
If they want to replace Phase Shield with something more interesting that still counters Fungals they should do this:

Phase Shift 100 energy
All friendly and enemy units within 6 range are briefly shifted out of reality, removing all Harmful effects and decreasing damage dealt and damage taken by 50% for 5 seconds. Units may still move and use abilities while Shifted.

This would have a very similar effect as an anti-Fungal but could also be used as a "pause button" to slow down a fight. Void rays would still be able to gain charge-up while shifted.
Seek, behold, and reveal the truth
kcdc
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States2311 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-09-29 00:54:10
September 29 2012 00:53 GMT
#87
On September 29 2012 09:46 s3rp wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 29 2012 09:44 kcdc wrote:
On September 29 2012 09:34 denyeverything wrote:
On September 29 2012 08:24 kcdc wrote:
MsC changes are an improvement. Giving it a reasonable movement speed should make it less frustrating. I wonder what the range is on the low-damage attack.

Blink all-ins will still be good vs Terran. The MsC will still spot for you so you don't need a robo, and it will provide a little damage.

One thing I don't like is that all maps will have to be designed so that important base-defense chokes are near the spot where you'll build your nexus. The game is going to be balanced around P having the option to cast purify on the nexus to attacks, which means every single map will have to position the nexus such that a 10 range cannon on top of the nexus is useful. That already happens on most maps, but it's still a shame to place another constraint on map design options. (Map constraints are already a big problem--check out how the main, natural and thirds are positioined similarly with similar entrances on every single map)


They don't have to be designed that way, because they don't have to accommodate all strategies.


All maps have to accomodate expanding.....

If this mechanic sticks around, I guarantee you will never see a HOTS tournament map where the nexus at the natural is more than 8 range from the ramp into the main. You're also going to see every single map structured so that the cannon on the nexus can defend the choke into the natural so that purify can synergize with forcefields.

Purify is in the game to be a standard defensive tool for taking a second base, and every single map is going to be structured in such a way that purify can be used as intended.


I disagree with this expanding even the first one should never be taken for granted automatically . Makes for boring games.


Yeah, there should be some maps without expansions. Having the option to expand every game is boring.
SarcasmMonster
Profile Joined October 2011
3136 Posts
September 29 2012 00:56 GMT
#88
I hope they're tuning the Mothership core in such a way that they can alter Warpgate/Forcefield down the line without nerfing 's early game.
MMA: The true King of Wings
s3rp
Profile Joined May 2011
Germany3192 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-09-29 01:00:49
September 29 2012 00:56 GMT
#89
On September 29 2012 09:53 kcdc wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 29 2012 09:46 s3rp wrote:
On September 29 2012 09:44 kcdc wrote:
On September 29 2012 09:34 denyeverything wrote:
On September 29 2012 08:24 kcdc wrote:
MsC changes are an improvement. Giving it a reasonable movement speed should make it less frustrating. I wonder what the range is on the low-damage attack.

Blink all-ins will still be good vs Terran. The MsC will still spot for you so you don't need a robo, and it will provide a little damage.

One thing I don't like is that all maps will have to be designed so that important base-defense chokes are near the spot where you'll build your nexus. The game is going to be balanced around P having the option to cast purify on the nexus to attacks, which means every single map will have to position the nexus such that a 10 range cannon on top of the nexus is useful. That already happens on most maps, but it's still a shame to place another constraint on map design options. (Map constraints are already a big problem--check out how the main, natural and thirds are positioined similarly with similar entrances on every single map)


They don't have to be designed that way, because they don't have to accommodate all strategies.


All maps have to accomodate expanding.....

If this mechanic sticks around, I guarantee you will never see a HOTS tournament map where the nexus at the natural is more than 8 range from the ramp into the main. You're also going to see every single map structured so that the cannon on the nexus can defend the choke into the natural so that purify can synergize with forcefields.

Purify is in the game to be a standard defensive tool for taking a second base, and every single map is going to be structured in such a way that purify can be used as intended.


I disagree with this expanding even the first one should never be taken for granted automatically . Makes for boring games.


Yeah, there should be some maps without expansions. Having the option to expand every game is boring.


No but super fast expanding should be a calculated risk that can be exploited not be super duper save. A few sentrys and a mothership core alone should not keep you save against aggressive builds on more then 1 base.
ReachTheSky
Profile Joined April 2010
United States3294 Posts
September 29 2012 00:56 GMT
#90
The entomb change is going to be HUGE in pvp.
TL+ Member
Swish 41
Profile Joined September 2012
Germany154 Posts
September 29 2012 00:57 GMT
#91
Terran is still fucked up. The only viable new unit requires a Armory WTF!
RaiKageRyu
Profile Joined August 2009
Canada4773 Posts
September 29 2012 00:58 GMT
#92
I'm not saying this is bad for the game nor am I stating I like this change of direction. But damn man, Protoss is in essence War3 more than ever.
Someone call down the Thunder?
Cabinet Sanchez
Profile Joined February 2011
Australia1097 Posts
September 29 2012 00:59 GMT
#93
On September 29 2012 08:25 Cyanocyst wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 29 2012 08:16 Cabinet Sanchez wrote:
Ugh Locust attack range back up, as far as I'm concerned it should be melee, the fucking unit is completely free.


Right now in Wol, Melee upgrades are far more beneficial, in comparison to range. If they were to make locusts also melee. They are even more so overloading the benefits for melee over range.

I honestly think that the balance between these upgrades, is the main reason to why they switched them over to ranged.




It just plain looks retarded - if it's scaling with melee upgrades then make the base damage lower?
The unit itself looks silly (at least when firing) I really do like the idea in many ways but I feel ranged units aren't the right way for this.
ReachTheSky
Profile Joined April 2010
United States3294 Posts
September 29 2012 01:03 GMT
#94
On September 29 2012 09:57 Swish 41 wrote:
Terran is still fucked up. The only viable new unit requires a Armory WTF!


They should definitely get rid of the armory requirement but increase the cost of the upgrade to the same price as the blue flame upgrade.
TL+ Member
playa
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States1284 Posts
September 29 2012 01:03 GMT
#95
This can't be the best way to compensate for offensive usage you didn't want to see. Back to WoL until the next "fix." May as well just remove all of the toss units, to eliminate the distraction of pointless stuff.
denyeverything
Profile Joined March 2012
25 Posts
September 29 2012 01:05 GMT
#96
On September 29 2012 09:44 kcdc wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 29 2012 09:34 denyeverything wrote:
On September 29 2012 08:24 kcdc wrote:
MsC changes are an improvement. Giving it a reasonable movement speed should make it less frustrating. I wonder what the range is on the low-damage attack.

Blink all-ins will still be good vs Terran. The MsC will still spot for you so you don't need a robo, and it will provide a little damage.

One thing I don't like is that all maps will have to be designed so that important base-defense chokes are near the spot where you'll build your nexus. The game is going to be balanced around P having the option to cast purify on the nexus to attacks, which means every single map will have to position the nexus such that a 10 range cannon on top of the nexus is useful. That already happens on most maps, but it's still a shame to place another constraint on map design options. (Map constraints are already a big problem--check out how the main, natural and thirds are positioined similarly with similar entrances on every single map)


They don't have to be designed that way, because they don't have to accommodate all strategies.


All maps have to accomodate expanding.....

If this mechanic sticks around, I guarantee you will never see a HOTS tournament map where the nexus at the natural is more than 8 range from the ramp into the main. You're also going to see every single map structured so that the cannon on the nexus can defend the choke into the natural so that purify can synergize with forcefields.

Purify is in the game to be a standard defensive tool for taking a second base, and every single map is going to be structured in such a way that purify can be used as intended.


I meant, they don't have to accommodate using Purify. Perhaps, I'm uninformed, so correct me if I'm wrong, but I didn't think that Protoss players had been one-basing the entire time waiting for Purify to come around.

And more to the details of your post, if tournament maps are tailoring to specific strategies (and I completely agree with you that they do), does it really matter? If they are just going to tailor a map to accommodate "staple strategy," then the notion of their being "design constraints" is illusionary, because they aren't designing. They are just following someone else's instructions, and thus nothing is lost. I actually think that this sort of take-the-meta-by-the-hand approach is more of a downside for the game's development than a plus. Sure, you appease the player base by giving them what they expect. But if that's all you're going to do, there's never going to be anything new or at least it's going to become increasingly rare. I.e. I'd rather see players figuring out a map, then maps figuring out players.
SarcasmMonster
Profile Joined October 2011
3136 Posts
September 29 2012 01:05 GMT
#97
Those who don't like the M-Core change can blame kcdc
MMA: The true King of Wings
kcdc
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States2311 Posts
September 29 2012 01:05 GMT
#98
On September 29 2012 09:56 s3rp wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 29 2012 09:53 kcdc wrote:
On September 29 2012 09:46 s3rp wrote:
On September 29 2012 09:44 kcdc wrote:
On September 29 2012 09:34 denyeverything wrote:
On September 29 2012 08:24 kcdc wrote:
MsC changes are an improvement. Giving it a reasonable movement speed should make it less frustrating. I wonder what the range is on the low-damage attack.

Blink all-ins will still be good vs Terran. The MsC will still spot for you so you don't need a robo, and it will provide a little damage.

One thing I don't like is that all maps will have to be designed so that important base-defense chokes are near the spot where you'll build your nexus. The game is going to be balanced around P having the option to cast purify on the nexus to attacks, which means every single map will have to position the nexus such that a 10 range cannon on top of the nexus is useful. That already happens on most maps, but it's still a shame to place another constraint on map design options. (Map constraints are already a big problem--check out how the main, natural and thirds are positioined similarly with similar entrances on every single map)


They don't have to be designed that way, because they don't have to accommodate all strategies.


All maps have to accomodate expanding.....

If this mechanic sticks around, I guarantee you will never see a HOTS tournament map where the nexus at the natural is more than 8 range from the ramp into the main. You're also going to see every single map structured so that the cannon on the nexus can defend the choke into the natural so that purify can synergize with forcefields.

Purify is in the game to be a standard defensive tool for taking a second base, and every single map is going to be structured in such a way that purify can be used as intended.


I disagree with this expanding even the first one should never be taken for granted automatically . Makes for boring games.


Yeah, there should be some maps without expansions. Having the option to expand every game is boring.


No but super fast expanding should be a calculated risk that can be exploited not be super duper save. A few sentrys and a mothership core alone should not keep you save against aggressive builds on more then 1 base.


They're giving P the option to put a 10 range cannon on their nexus so that it will be possible to defend an expansion in PvP. On any map where you can't defend with the nexus-cannon, PvP expansions won't happen. This is why every map will position the nexus and the ramps so that you can defend them with the nexus-cannon.
KrazyTrumpet
Profile Joined April 2010
United States2520 Posts
September 29 2012 01:06 GMT
#99
On September 29 2012 09:34 denyeverything wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 29 2012 08:24 kcdc wrote:
MsC changes are an improvement. Giving it a reasonable movement speed should make it less frustrating. I wonder what the range is on the low-damage attack.

Blink all-ins will still be good vs Terran. The MsC will still spot for you so you don't need a robo, and it will provide a little damage.

One thing I don't like is that all maps will have to be designed so that important base-defense chokes are near the spot where you'll build your nexus. The game is going to be balanced around P having the option to cast purify on the nexus to attacks, which means every single map will have to position the nexus such that a 10 range cannon on top of the nexus is useful. That already happens on most maps, but it's still a shame to place another constraint on map design options. (Map constraints are already a big problem--check out how the main, natural and thirds are positioined similarly with similar entrances on every single map)


They don't have to be designed that way, because they don't have to accommodate all strategies.

And I like the changes as well. I think people are overreacting to the whole Recall "nerf." Honestly, having additional attack power (which is like one and a half stalkers) for no energy (if i'm understanding correctly), is a pretty nice balance to go alongside having to tag along with it. And it reasonably gives the opponent the ability to address it (by killing the MSC), rather than just being free (which is kind of crazy). It still allows for some pretty strong MSC backed pushes, and again going up 50/50 to add a Stalker+ in damage (which is cheaper that an actual Stalker for that damage), means that it's a technically stronger push.

Plus, let's also not forget that Purify also enhances these pushes too. You push out, hit the edge of their base, and they drop your main. Well... you don't want to Recall (because you believe you can crack it), but you also don't want to just let the drop happen unhindered. That's when you Purify.

Basically:

Opponent has better army = Recall out.
Opponent splits army = Purify out.

Sounds pretty good to me.

Is Entomb good now? lol.


You have to be within 10 range of the nexus to cast Purify on it.
www.twitch.tv/krazy Best Stream Quality NA @KClarkSC2
pmp10
Profile Joined April 2012
3399 Posts
September 29 2012 01:07 GMT
#100
It just occurred to me that the widow mine change means that Blizzard expects it to be used offensively.
A few more changes like this and the whole unit won't look or work anything like a mine anymore.
Prev 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 24 25 26 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Replay Cast
00:00
SEL Masters #7
Liquipedia
PSISTORM Gaming Misc
23:00
FSL s11 code B championship
Liquipedia
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
WinterStarcraft450
RuFF_SC2 216
StarCraft: Brood War
Shuttle 5836
Bale 98
Sharp 81
Noble 25
Icarus 10
Dota 2
NeuroSwarm174
Counter-Strike
summit1g8018
taco 608
minikerr37
Super Smash Bros
Mew2King150
Other Games
JimRising 546
C9.Mang0368
XaKoH 173
ViBE157
ROOTCatZ68
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick1029
[ Show 13 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Hupsaiya 91
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• Migwel
StarCraft: Brood War
• RayReign 24
• Azhi_Dahaki12
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Dota 2
• masondota21694
League of Legends
• Lourlo753
Upcoming Events
RSL Revival
4h 47m
herO vs SHIN
Clem vs Solar
Serral vs Rogue
Ladder Legends
13h 47m
Ladder Legends
15h 47m
RSL Revival
1d 4h
OSC
1d 8h
OSC
1d 19h
WardiTV Weekly
2 days
The Patches Monday
2 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
3 days
PiG Sty Festival
3 days
[ Show More ]
PiGosaur Cup
3 days
Replay Cast
4 days
Kung Fu Cup
4 days
Replay Cast
4 days
The PondCast
5 days
Replay Cast
5 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Escore Tournament S3: W6
CranK Gathers Season 4: BW vs SC2 Team League
Eternal Conflict S2 Finale

Ongoing

KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 3
K-JUNGMAN
Acropolis #5
RSL Revival: Season 6
Esports World Cup 2026: LCQ
BLAST Bounty Summer 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer Qual
Stake Ranked Episode 3
XSE Pro League 2026
IEM Cologne Major 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 2

Upcoming

Escore Tournament S3: W7
CSLAN 4
ASL Season 22
Escore Tournament S3: W8
Acropolis #5 - TRS
Blizzard Classic Cup 2026
Acropolis #5 - GSA
HSC XXX
SC4ALL II: StarCraft II
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
PiG Sty Festival 8.0
Big Dog Cup 2026 Div 1
Thunderpick World Champ.
ESL Pro League Season 24
Stake Ranked Episode 4
Logitech G Connect 2026
SL StarSeries Fall 2026
FISSURE Playground #5
BLAST Open Fall 2026
Esports World Cup 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.