EPTHotS Balance Update #4 [9/28/12] - Page 25
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TheLunatic
309 Posts
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Ramiz1989
12124 Posts
On October 03 2012 02:59 kmillz wrote: What defines a "complete" race? O_o A race that have the most options and its units are usable in a lot of situations, and that every unit fills the gap, or has some role. That being said, none of the races are complete, but the most complete also in my opinion is Terran. Right now, beside the Reaper that is terrible, Battle Cruisers are also almost nonexistent(at least on top level, but they still have their uses), but every other unit is used regularly. Being the most complete, doesn't mean the strongest, easiest or whatever. Zerg isn't the most complete simply because we can't stay on Lair tech and finish the game if we don't want to commit too much(go all-in), we have to rush the Infestor and Brood Lord army composition because it is easier to play with it and it is really strong. I am forced to do that. Also, at the Lair tech, Hydras are underused, Nydus is underused, Mutas are used less and less, just because Infestor fills every single gap out there. The unit is just awfully designed, because it is answer to everything enemy can make. Seeing 10 Corruptors, 10 Brood Lords and 30+ Infestors in the late game against every single race is just sad... Infestors need seriously tuning, right now, they are just too good, and there is no drawback by having a lot of the Infestors. I hope that they change it somehow, so it becomes support caster instead of caster that kills everything. Looking at the Zerg streams of HOTS beta, they still prefer to rush to the Infestors than to the Swarm Hosts, or Vipers, or Hydras with speed or anything else. I am Zerg player, and I hope that what DB said is true(that they will maybe nerf the Infestor while looking at other stuff that Zerg got), because I absolutely hate the current Zerg metagame, rushing Hive at 10th minute, and I hate Infestor + Brood Lord army composition. | ||
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numberThirtyOne
United States294 Posts
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KevoStream
Peru20 Posts
build 2 at a time from factory, like zearglins. and with reactor build 4 at a time. | ||
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kmillz
United States1548 Posts
On October 03 2012 04:03 Ramiz1989 wrote: A race that have the most options and its units are usable in a lot of situations, and that every unit fills the gap, or has some role. That being said, none of the races are complete, but the most complete also in my opinion is Terran. Right now, beside the Reaper that is terrible, Battle Cruisers are also almost nonexistent(at least on top level, but they still have their uses), but every other unit is used regularly. Being the most complete, doesn't mean the strongest, easiest or whatever. Zerg isn't the most complete simply because we can't stay on Lair tech and finish the game if we don't want to commit too much(go all-in), we have to rush the Infestor and Brood Lord army composition because it is easier to play with it and it is really strong. I am forced to do that. Also, at the Lair tech, Hydras are underused, Nydus is underused, Mutas are used less and less, just because Infestor fills every single gap out there. The unit is just awfully designed, because it is answer to everything enemy can make. Seeing 10 Corruptors, 10 Brood Lords and 30+ Infestors in the late game against every single race is just sad... Infestors need seriously tuning, right now, they are just too good, and there is no drawback by having a lot of the Infestors. I hope that they change it somehow, so it becomes support caster instead of caster that kills everything. Looking at the Zerg streams of HOTS beta, they still prefer to rush to the Infestors than to the Swarm Hosts, or Vipers, or Hydras with speed or anything else. I am Zerg player, and I hope that what DB said is true(that they will maybe nerf the Infestor while looking at other stuff that Zerg got), because I absolutely hate the current Zerg metagame, rushing Hive at 10th minute, and I hate Infestor + Brood Lord army composition. Ok thank you for clearing that up. Maybe they should take away one of the infestors abilities and give another unit an ability that fills the same role? | ||
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Ramiz1989
12124 Posts
On October 03 2012 06:04 kmillz wrote: Ok thank you for clearing that up. Maybe they should take away one of the infestors abilities and give another unit an ability that fills the same role? I don't think that they will take away some of the ability, but nerf some of them, and specifically fungal growth, they even said that they are taking a look at that ability. Infested Marines are problem when you have high number of Infestors, but you can get to the higher number of them because of the fungal, it stops everything, you just can't kill Zerg when he is camping with 20 Spines and 10 Infestors, and he keep adding more and more Infestors to his army. Otherwise Infested Marines aren't problem when you have lower number of Infestors because they are immobile, they die to AoE and if Infestors overextend with energy usage on Infested Marines, they won't have enough energy for fungal, where in late game that isn't the problem, since you will always have the energy for fungal with 20+ Infestors... And Neural Parasite is never a problem, since its nerf it is situational ability at best. | ||
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G00BAK
Canada51 Posts
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G00BAK
Canada51 Posts
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Jerubaal
United States7684 Posts
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archon256
United States363 Posts
On October 03 2012 08:38 Jerubaal wrote: You could literally throw your dart at a timing and pick that time for aggression and that's what's needed especially against zerg. It's clear that Blizzard felt that such tactics were too strong, hence the change. Now you can still do timing attacks, you just need to choose between slower attacks with the ability to recall your units if things get hairy, or faster attacks where you don't need to worry about protecting the Mcore. | ||
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NET
United States703 Posts
Maybe have it not target workers like the mine in sc1, if by chance they happen to get it in the mineral line and I have no detection, its basically gg. | ||
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Hattori_Hanzo
Singapore1229 Posts
I agree they COULD be imba if they were placed at expands with no way to defend, but again there ARE So many counters past the 7 minute mark. I do agree that this strategy is problematic for Terrans as scans and ravens aren't as readily available as overseer and observers. | ||
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kmillz
United States1548 Posts
On October 03 2012 19:29 Hattori_Hanzo wrote: I can see widow mines in the mineral line being a problem in the lower leagues, but come on. Medivac timings are at least 8minutes and above. Given their high cost, anything less than 6 worker kills is hugely expensive because of the gas and one hit nature of the mine. I agree they COULD be imba if they were placed at expands with no way to defend, but again there ARE So many counters past the 7 minute mark. I do agree that this strategy is problematic for Terrans as scans and ravens aren't as readily available as overseer and observers. Uhh..how do you figure? Scans should be available damn near all game unless you are mule greedy..and you can scan anywhere. If obs and or overseer are out of position you can't just instantly get vision where you need it. | ||
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Hattori_Hanzo
Singapore1229 Posts
On October 04 2012 00:26 kmillz wrote: Uhh..how do you figure? Scans should be available damn near all game unless you are mule greedy..and you can scan anywhere. If obs and or overseer are out of position you can't just instantly get vision where you need it. ... You do realize the act of having to scan and have enough units there to kill the mine before the scan wears off costs more APM than both P's observer/stalker and Z's overseer/roach/infestor? | ||
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kmillz
United States1548 Posts
On October 04 2012 04:05 Hattori_Hanzo wrote: ... You do realize the act of having to scan and have enough units there to kill the mine before the scan wears off costs more APM than both P's observer/stalker and Z's overseer/roach/infestor? Why would it take more apm? why does that even matter, my point was that scans are always available unless you are reckless with your energy, whereas vision for P or Z is not always available at every base unless you have 1 obs/overseer at every base (or spores or cannons). | ||
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ReachTheSky
United States3294 Posts
On October 03 2012 19:13 NET wrote: Widow mine in mineral line is scary with no detection lol. Maybe have it not target workers like the mine in sc1, if by chance they happen to get it in the mineral line and I have no detection, its basically gg. Yeah it is, I think the widow mine should not be activated by workers. | ||
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ReachTheSky
United States3294 Posts
On October 03 2012 19:29 Hattori_Hanzo wrote: I can see widow mines in the mineral line being a problem in the lower leagues, but come on. Medivac timings are at least 8minutes and above. Given their high cost, anything less than 6 worker kills is hugely expensive because of the gas and one hit nature of the mine. I agree they COULD be imba if they were placed at expands with no way to defend, but again there ARE So many counters past the 7 minute mark. I do agree that this strategy is problematic for Terrans as scans and ravens aren't as readily available as overseer and observers. Its the early game proxy factory/in your opponent's base factory that is the problem. Harassing at the front with marine/marauder or reapers with a factory in your opponent's base churning out widow mines is, dare i say it, pretty overpowered. If blizzard changed the widow mine to not be activated by workers this would be much less of a problem. | ||
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summerloud
Austria1201 Posts
On October 03 2012 05:20 numberThirtyOne wrote: Hmm. 4-gates with MC to spot high ground seem ridiculous. so do reapers than can pick off any buildings on the edge of your starting plateau im all for adding overpowered stuff like this, it will balance itself out | ||
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Hattori_Hanzo
Singapore1229 Posts
On October 05 2012 00:56 summerloud wrote: so do reapers than can pick off any buildings on the edge of your starting plateau im all for adding overpowered stuff like this, it will balance itself out You bring up a valid point now ALL races have the ability to peek up the ramp albeit at a cost. Reapers Overlords MC | ||
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Von
United States363 Posts
When your favorite race gets a big red Destructo button that instantly wipes out all enemy units and structures on the map. | ||
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is the most complete race in WOL. I know my username doesn't help, but 
and 
need more to fill in the gap than 
