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On October 02 2012 04:43 SarcasmMonster wrote:Show nested quote +On October 02 2012 04:41 pmp10 wrote:On October 02 2012 02:30 Lylat wrote:
I didn't have the chance to get a betakey yet but I watch streams (ForGG and Morrow) and it seems Terrans have no new units except for the mines and the battle helions ? I'm really disappointed as a Terran player since Zergs and Protoss have some cool new units/mechanics...
Or do they plan to add a new one ? Last time DB wrote about the warhound he said there was no replacement planned. That would at least explain why blizzard is trying to turn widow mine from a strategic weapon into a full-blown unit. But then again DB dose seem to be very flexible with his beta plans so given enough feedback something may change. It will probably depend on how blizzard betas operate - were there any unit additions in WoL beta? IIRC units were removed but I have no idea if anything was ever added. On October 02 2012 04:27 Apolo wrote:On October 02 2012 02:36 TheLunatic wrote:On October 02 2012 02:30 Lylat wrote:
I didn't have the chance to get a betakey yet but I watch streams (ForGG and Morrow) and it seems Terrans have no new units except for the mines and the battle helions ? I'm really disappointed as a Terran player since Zergs and Protoss have some cool new units/mechanics...
Or do they plan to add a new one ? I think terrans will be getting screwed this expansion You're getting it the wrong way. Terran got too much compared to Zerg and Protoss in WoL. It has been the most complete race. Everyone agrees on that. It's only normal this time Terran doesn't get as many new things to balance it out. Is it wrong that by now I can't even tell if this is sarcasm or not? He's right.  is the most complete race in WOL. I know my username doesn't help, but  and  need more to fill in the gap than .
Then the problem is with claiming that everyone agrees on it.
The only thing about terran completeness I'll agree on is that it's the closest race to being completely broken.
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What about attaching mothership core anywhere to the ground within lets say 8 range of your any nexus ? or smt like that..
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On October 02 2012 04:53 pmp10 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 02 2012 04:43 SarcasmMonster wrote:On October 02 2012 04:41 pmp10 wrote:On October 02 2012 02:30 Lylat wrote:
I didn't have the chance to get a betakey yet but I watch streams (ForGG and Morrow) and it seems Terrans have no new units except for the mines and the battle helions ? I'm really disappointed as a Terran player since Zergs and Protoss have some cool new units/mechanics...
Or do they plan to add a new one ? Last time DB wrote about the warhound he said there was no replacement planned. That would at least explain why blizzard is trying to turn widow mine from a strategic weapon into a full-blown unit. But then again DB dose seem to be very flexible with his beta plans so given enough feedback something may change. It will probably depend on how blizzard betas operate - were there any unit additions in WoL beta? IIRC units were removed but I have no idea if anything was ever added. On October 02 2012 04:27 Apolo wrote:On October 02 2012 02:36 TheLunatic wrote:On October 02 2012 02:30 Lylat wrote:
I didn't have the chance to get a betakey yet but I watch streams (ForGG and Morrow) and it seems Terrans have no new units except for the mines and the battle helions ? I'm really disappointed as a Terran player since Zergs and Protoss have some cool new units/mechanics...
Or do they plan to add a new one ? I think terrans will be getting screwed this expansion You're getting it the wrong way. Terran got too much compared to Zerg and Protoss in WoL. It has been the most complete race. Everyone agrees on that. It's only normal this time Terran doesn't get as many new things to balance it out. Is it wrong that by now I can't even tell if this is sarcasm or not? He's right. is the most complete race in WOL. I know my username doesn't help, but and need more to fill in the gap than . Then the problem is with claiming that everyone agrees on it. The only thing about terran completeness I'll agree on is that it's the closest race to being completely broken.
It's obviously just an opinion but a very common one in the community. Even Browder aknowledges it somewhat.
Dustin Browder: There's currently a concern with the Zerg Infestor's power fungal growth. I still hear a lot of complaints about the Zerg still not being strong enough, as well as Terrans still being too flexible. The latter's the most persistent one for the longest time. That's almost a design flaw not a balance flaw. We just have too many good units in that race. It's hard to cut units in that race and say, "I know you have a lot of good units, but we're killing two because [your race] is too good." (laughs) That's not going to work. And it's not fun to go, "Hey, you know that unit that was fun and useful? Well, we ruined it, so now your race is balanced." That feels terrible too. Those are some of the hot areas I've heard.
It's definitely the majority opinion on reddit mejogid [440 votes]
If by broken, you mean underpowered then, maybe... but has been the most dominant race in WOL by such a large margin, maybe it's not so bad we relinquish some domination at the end of WOL's lifetime 
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On October 02 2012 04:43 SarcasmMonster wrote:Show nested quote +On October 02 2012 04:41 pmp10 wrote:On October 02 2012 02:30 Lylat wrote:
I didn't have the chance to get a betakey yet but I watch streams (ForGG and Morrow) and it seems Terrans have no new units except for the mines and the battle helions ? I'm really disappointed as a Terran player since Zergs and Protoss have some cool new units/mechanics...
Or do they plan to add a new one ? Last time DB wrote about the warhound he said there was no replacement planned. That would at least explain why blizzard is trying to turn widow mine from a strategic weapon into a full-blown unit. But then again DB dose seem to be very flexible with his beta plans so given enough feedback something may change. It will probably depend on how blizzard betas operate - were there any unit additions in WoL beta? IIRC units were removed but I have no idea if anything was ever added. On October 02 2012 04:27 Apolo wrote:On October 02 2012 02:36 TheLunatic wrote:On October 02 2012 02:30 Lylat wrote:
I didn't have the chance to get a betakey yet but I watch streams (ForGG and Morrow) and it seems Terrans have no new units except for the mines and the battle helions ? I'm really disappointed as a Terran player since Zergs and Protoss have some cool new units/mechanics...
Or do they plan to add a new one ? I think terrans will be getting screwed this expansion You're getting it the wrong way. Terran got too much compared to Zerg and Protoss in WoL. It has been the most complete race. Everyone agrees on that. It's only normal this time Terran doesn't get as many new things to balance it out. Is it wrong that by now I can't even tell if this is sarcasm or not? He's right. is the most complete race in WOL. I know my username doesn't help, but and need more to fill in the gap than .
At least a third of Terran options in WoL is total crap. They have most options but since so many of them are just useless this doesn't really matter . Terran in WoL was the most complete race then they made several units and upgrades totally useless now it def. isn't anymore. Zerg probably is right now.
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On October 02 2012 05:25 SarcasmMonster wrote:Show nested quote +On October 02 2012 04:53 pmp10 wrote:On October 02 2012 04:43 SarcasmMonster wrote:On October 02 2012 04:41 pmp10 wrote:On October 02 2012 02:30 Lylat wrote:
I didn't have the chance to get a betakey yet but I watch streams (ForGG and Morrow) and it seems Terrans have no new units except for the mines and the battle helions ? I'm really disappointed as a Terran player since Zergs and Protoss have some cool new units/mechanics...
Or do they plan to add a new one ? Last time DB wrote about the warhound he said there was no replacement planned. That would at least explain why blizzard is trying to turn widow mine from a strategic weapon into a full-blown unit. But then again DB dose seem to be very flexible with his beta plans so given enough feedback something may change. It will probably depend on how blizzard betas operate - were there any unit additions in WoL beta? IIRC units were removed but I have no idea if anything was ever added. On October 02 2012 04:27 Apolo wrote:On October 02 2012 02:36 TheLunatic wrote:On October 02 2012 02:30 Lylat wrote:
I didn't have the chance to get a betakey yet but I watch streams (ForGG and Morrow) and it seems Terrans have no new units except for the mines and the battle helions ? I'm really disappointed as a Terran player since Zergs and Protoss have some cool new units/mechanics...
Or do they plan to add a new one ? I think terrans will be getting screwed this expansion You're getting it the wrong way. Terran got too much compared to Zerg and Protoss in WoL. It has been the most complete race. Everyone agrees on that. It's only normal this time Terran doesn't get as many new things to balance it out. Is it wrong that by now I can't even tell if this is sarcasm or not? He's right. is the most complete race in WOL. I know my username doesn't help, but and need more to fill in the gap than . Then the problem is with claiming that everyone agrees on it. The only thing about terran completeness I'll agree on is that it's the closest race to being completely broken. It's obviously just an opinion but a very common one in the community. Even Browder aknowledges it somewhat. Show nested quote +Dustin Browder: There's currently a concern with the Zerg Infestor's power fungal growth. I still hear a lot of complaints about the Zerg still not being strong enough, as well as Terrans still being too flexible. The latter's the most persistent one for the longest time. That's almost a design flaw not a balance flaw. We just have too many good units in that race. It's hard to cut units in that race and say, "I know you have a lot of good units, but we're killing two because [your race] is too good." (laughs) That's not going to work. And it's not fun to go, "Hey, you know that unit that was fun and useful? Well, we ruined it, so now your race is balanced." That feels terrible too. Those are some of the hot areas I've heard. It's definitely the majority opinion on reddit mejogid [440 votes]If by broken, you mean underpowered then, maybe... but has been the most dominant race in WOL by such a large margin, maybe it's not so bad we relinquish some domination at the end of WOL's lifetime
i think that terran is still missing a good lategame gas sink. Maybe the new battlecruiser will fill this role, or possibly the raven if it gets adjusted.
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On October 02 2012 05:35 xNSwarm wrote:Show nested quote +On October 02 2012 05:25 SarcasmMonster wrote:On October 02 2012 04:53 pmp10 wrote:On October 02 2012 04:43 SarcasmMonster wrote:On October 02 2012 04:41 pmp10 wrote:On October 02 2012 02:30 Lylat wrote:
I didn't have the chance to get a betakey yet but I watch streams (ForGG and Morrow) and it seems Terrans have no new units except for the mines and the battle helions ? I'm really disappointed as a Terran player since Zergs and Protoss have some cool new units/mechanics...
Or do they plan to add a new one ? Last time DB wrote about the warhound he said there was no replacement planned. That would at least explain why blizzard is trying to turn widow mine from a strategic weapon into a full-blown unit. But then again DB dose seem to be very flexible with his beta plans so given enough feedback something may change. It will probably depend on how blizzard betas operate - were there any unit additions in WoL beta? IIRC units were removed but I have no idea if anything was ever added. On October 02 2012 04:27 Apolo wrote:On October 02 2012 02:36 TheLunatic wrote:On October 02 2012 02:30 Lylat wrote:
I didn't have the chance to get a betakey yet but I watch streams (ForGG and Morrow) and it seems Terrans have no new units except for the mines and the battle helions ? I'm really disappointed as a Terran player since Zergs and Protoss have some cool new units/mechanics...
Or do they plan to add a new one ? I think terrans will be getting screwed this expansion You're getting it the wrong way. Terran got too much compared to Zerg and Protoss in WoL. It has been the most complete race. Everyone agrees on that. It's only normal this time Terran doesn't get as many new things to balance it out. Is it wrong that by now I can't even tell if this is sarcasm or not? He's right. is the most complete race in WOL. I know my username doesn't help, but and need more to fill in the gap than . Then the problem is with claiming that everyone agrees on it. The only thing about terran completeness I'll agree on is that it's the closest race to being completely broken. It's obviously just an opinion but a very common one in the community. Even Browder aknowledges it somewhat. Dustin Browder: There's currently a concern with the Zerg Infestor's power fungal growth. I still hear a lot of complaints about the Zerg still not being strong enough, as well as Terrans still being too flexible. The latter's the most persistent one for the longest time. That's almost a design flaw not a balance flaw. We just have too many good units in that race. It's hard to cut units in that race and say, "I know you have a lot of good units, but we're killing two because [your race] is too good." (laughs) That's not going to work. And it's not fun to go, "Hey, you know that unit that was fun and useful? Well, we ruined it, so now your race is balanced." That feels terrible too. Those are some of the hot areas I've heard. It's definitely the majority opinion on reddit mejogid [440 votes]If by broken, you mean underpowered then, maybe... but has been the most dominant race in WOL by such a large margin, maybe it's not so bad we relinquish some domination at the end of WOL's lifetime i think that terran is still missing a good lategame gas sink. Maybe the new battlecruiser will fill this role, or possibly the raven if it gets adjusted.
I don't really think having excess gas should necessarily be considered a problem, basically that means Terran spends more minerals than gas which is good, because they have mules and minerals are easier to get.
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On October 02 2012 05:40 kmillz wrote:Show nested quote +On October 02 2012 05:35 xNSwarm wrote:On October 02 2012 05:25 SarcasmMonster wrote:On October 02 2012 04:53 pmp10 wrote:On October 02 2012 04:43 SarcasmMonster wrote:On October 02 2012 04:41 pmp10 wrote:On October 02 2012 02:30 Lylat wrote:
I didn't have the chance to get a betakey yet but I watch streams (ForGG and Morrow) and it seems Terrans have no new units except for the mines and the battle helions ? I'm really disappointed as a Terran player since Zergs and Protoss have some cool new units/mechanics...
Or do they plan to add a new one ? Last time DB wrote about the warhound he said there was no replacement planned. That would at least explain why blizzard is trying to turn widow mine from a strategic weapon into a full-blown unit. But then again DB dose seem to be very flexible with his beta plans so given enough feedback something may change. It will probably depend on how blizzard betas operate - were there any unit additions in WoL beta? IIRC units were removed but I have no idea if anything was ever added. On October 02 2012 04:27 Apolo wrote:On October 02 2012 02:36 TheLunatic wrote:On October 02 2012 02:30 Lylat wrote:
I didn't have the chance to get a betakey yet but I watch streams (ForGG and Morrow) and it seems Terrans have no new units except for the mines and the battle helions ? I'm really disappointed as a Terran player since Zergs and Protoss have some cool new units/mechanics...
Or do they plan to add a new one ? I think terrans will be getting screwed this expansion You're getting it the wrong way. Terran got too much compared to Zerg and Protoss in WoL. It has been the most complete race. Everyone agrees on that. It's only normal this time Terran doesn't get as many new things to balance it out. Is it wrong that by now I can't even tell if this is sarcasm or not? He's right. is the most complete race in WOL. I know my username doesn't help, but and need more to fill in the gap than . Then the problem is with claiming that everyone agrees on it. The only thing about terran completeness I'll agree on is that it's the closest race to being completely broken. It's obviously just an opinion but a very common one in the community. Even Browder aknowledges it somewhat. Dustin Browder: There's currently a concern with the Zerg Infestor's power fungal growth. I still hear a lot of complaints about the Zerg still not being strong enough, as well as Terrans still being too flexible. The latter's the most persistent one for the longest time. That's almost a design flaw not a balance flaw. We just have too many good units in that race. It's hard to cut units in that race and say, "I know you have a lot of good units, but we're killing two because [your race] is too good." (laughs) That's not going to work. And it's not fun to go, "Hey, you know that unit that was fun and useful? Well, we ruined it, so now your race is balanced." That feels terrible too. Those are some of the hot areas I've heard. It's definitely the majority opinion on reddit mejogid [440 votes]If by broken, you mean underpowered then, maybe... but has been the most dominant race in WOL by such a large margin, maybe it's not so bad we relinquish some domination at the end of WOL's lifetime i think that terran is still missing a good lategame gas sink. Maybe the new battlecruiser will fill this role, or possibly the raven if it gets adjusted. I don't really think having excess gas should necessarily be considered a problem, basically that means Terran spends more minerals than gas which is good, because they have mules and minerals are easier to get.
Then mapmakers should stop implementing extra Gas geysirs / rich gas geysirs if one races can't benefit from them for example. Or they should start making maps with extra minerals / fewer gas as well.
Looks , it's just not good game design if one race can't spend one of only two resources effectively because the units requiring high amount of that resource are just not very useful .
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Mothership core still keeps blink all-ins extremely powerful in P v T by removing the need to build a robo and observers to blink up.
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On October 02 2012 05:49 link0 wrote:
Mothership core still keeps blink all-ins extremely powerful in P v T by removing the need to build a robo and observers to blink up.
Makes it powerful in all matchups I think
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On October 02 2012 05:44 s3rp wrote:Show nested quote +On October 02 2012 05:40 kmillz wrote:On October 02 2012 05:35 xNSwarm wrote:On October 02 2012 05:25 SarcasmMonster wrote:On October 02 2012 04:53 pmp10 wrote:On October 02 2012 04:43 SarcasmMonster wrote:On October 02 2012 04:41 pmp10 wrote:On October 02 2012 02:30 Lylat wrote:
I didn't have the chance to get a betakey yet but I watch streams (ForGG and Morrow) and it seems Terrans have no new units except for the mines and the battle helions ? I'm really disappointed as a Terran player since Zergs and Protoss have some cool new units/mechanics...
Or do they plan to add a new one ? Last time DB wrote about the warhound he said there was no replacement planned. That would at least explain why blizzard is trying to turn widow mine from a strategic weapon into a full-blown unit. But then again DB dose seem to be very flexible with his beta plans so given enough feedback something may change. It will probably depend on how blizzard betas operate - were there any unit additions in WoL beta? IIRC units were removed but I have no idea if anything was ever added. On October 02 2012 04:27 Apolo wrote:On October 02 2012 02:36 TheLunatic wrote:On October 02 2012 02:30 Lylat wrote:
I didn't have the chance to get a betakey yet but I watch streams (ForGG and Morrow) and it seems Terrans have no new units except for the mines and the battle helions ? I'm really disappointed as a Terran player since Zergs and Protoss have some cool new units/mechanics...
Or do they plan to add a new one ? I think terrans will be getting screwed this expansion You're getting it the wrong way. Terran got too much compared to Zerg and Protoss in WoL. It has been the most complete race. Everyone agrees on that. It's only normal this time Terran doesn't get as many new things to balance it out. Is it wrong that by now I can't even tell if this is sarcasm or not? He's right. is the most complete race in WOL. I know my username doesn't help, but and need more to fill in the gap than . Then the problem is with claiming that everyone agrees on it. The only thing about terran completeness I'll agree on is that it's the closest race to being completely broken. It's obviously just an opinion but a very common one in the community. Even Browder aknowledges it somewhat. Dustin Browder: There's currently a concern with the Zerg Infestor's power fungal growth. I still hear a lot of complaints about the Zerg still not being strong enough, as well as Terrans still being too flexible. The latter's the most persistent one for the longest time. That's almost a design flaw not a balance flaw. We just have too many good units in that race. It's hard to cut units in that race and say, "I know you have a lot of good units, but we're killing two because [your race] is too good." (laughs) That's not going to work. And it's not fun to go, "Hey, you know that unit that was fun and useful? Well, we ruined it, so now your race is balanced." That feels terrible too. Those are some of the hot areas I've heard. It's definitely the majority opinion on reddit mejogid [440 votes]If by broken, you mean underpowered then, maybe... but has been the most dominant race in WOL by such a large margin, maybe it's not so bad we relinquish some domination at the end of WOL's lifetime i think that terran is still missing a good lategame gas sink. Maybe the new battlecruiser will fill this role, or possibly the raven if it gets adjusted. I don't really think having excess gas should necessarily be considered a problem, basically that means Terran spends more minerals than gas which is good, because they have mules and minerals are easier to get. Then mapmakers should stop implementing extra Gas geysirs / rich gas geysirs if one races can't benefit from them for example. Or they should start making maps with extra minerals / fewer gas as well. Looks , it's just not good game design if one race can't spend one of only two resources effectively because the units requiring high amount of that resource are just not very useful .
I would think mech play would be very expensive on gas?
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On October 02 2012 06:02 kmillz wrote:Show nested quote +On October 02 2012 05:44 s3rp wrote:On October 02 2012 05:40 kmillz wrote:On October 02 2012 05:35 xNSwarm wrote:On October 02 2012 05:25 SarcasmMonster wrote:On October 02 2012 04:53 pmp10 wrote:On October 02 2012 04:43 SarcasmMonster wrote:On October 02 2012 04:41 pmp10 wrote:On October 02 2012 02:30 Lylat wrote:
I didn't have the chance to get a betakey yet but I watch streams (ForGG and Morrow) and it seems Terrans have no new units except for the mines and the battle helions ? I'm really disappointed as a Terran player since Zergs and Protoss have some cool new units/mechanics...
Or do they plan to add a new one ? Last time DB wrote about the warhound he said there was no replacement planned. That would at least explain why blizzard is trying to turn widow mine from a strategic weapon into a full-blown unit. But then again DB dose seem to be very flexible with his beta plans so given enough feedback something may change. It will probably depend on how blizzard betas operate - were there any unit additions in WoL beta? IIRC units were removed but I have no idea if anything was ever added. On October 02 2012 04:27 Apolo wrote:On October 02 2012 02:36 TheLunatic wrote:
[quote]
I think terrans will be getting screwed this expansion You're getting it the wrong way. Terran got too much compared to Zerg and Protoss in WoL. It has been the most complete race. Everyone agrees on that. It's only normal this time Terran doesn't get as many new things to balance it out. Is it wrong that by now I can't even tell if this is sarcasm or not? He's right. is the most complete race in WOL. I know my username doesn't help, but and need more to fill in the gap than . Then the problem is with claiming that everyone agrees on it. The only thing about terran completeness I'll agree on is that it's the closest race to being completely broken. It's obviously just an opinion but a very common one in the community. Even Browder aknowledges it somewhat. Dustin Browder: There's currently a concern with the Zerg Infestor's power fungal growth. I still hear a lot of complaints about the Zerg still not being strong enough, as well as Terrans still being too flexible. The latter's the most persistent one for the longest time. That's almost a design flaw not a balance flaw. We just have too many good units in that race. It's hard to cut units in that race and say, "I know you have a lot of good units, but we're killing two because [your race] is too good." (laughs) That's not going to work. And it's not fun to go, "Hey, you know that unit that was fun and useful? Well, we ruined it, so now your race is balanced." That feels terrible too. Those are some of the hot areas I've heard. It's definitely the majority opinion on reddit mejogid [440 votes]If by broken, you mean underpowered then, maybe... but has been the most dominant race in WOL by such a large margin, maybe it's not so bad we relinquish some domination at the end of WOL's lifetime i think that terran is still missing a good lategame gas sink. Maybe the new battlecruiser will fill this role, or possibly the raven if it gets adjusted. I don't really think having excess gas should necessarily be considered a problem, basically that means Terran spends more minerals than gas which is good, because they have mules and minerals are easier to get. Then mapmakers should stop implementing extra Gas geysirs / rich gas geysirs if one races can't benefit from them for example. Or they should start making maps with extra minerals / fewer gas as well. Looks , it's just not good game design if one race can't spend one of only two resources effectively because the units requiring high amount of that resource are just not very useful . I would think mech play would be very expensive on gas?
And how effective is Mech-play in TvP ? HotS didn't change much if anything for TvP , yet.
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On October 02 2012 06:05 s3rp wrote:Show nested quote +On October 02 2012 06:02 kmillz wrote:On October 02 2012 05:44 s3rp wrote:On October 02 2012 05:40 kmillz wrote:On October 02 2012 05:35 xNSwarm wrote:On October 02 2012 05:25 SarcasmMonster wrote:On October 02 2012 04:53 pmp10 wrote:On October 02 2012 04:43 SarcasmMonster wrote:On October 02 2012 04:41 pmp10 wrote:On October 02 2012 02:30 Lylat wrote:
I didn't have the chance to get a betakey yet but I watch streams (ForGG and Morrow) and it seems Terrans have no new units except for the mines and the battle helions ? I'm really disappointed as a Terran player since Zergs and Protoss have some cool new units/mechanics...
Or do they plan to add a new one ? Last time DB wrote about the warhound he said there was no replacement planned. That would at least explain why blizzard is trying to turn widow mine from a strategic weapon into a full-blown unit. But then again DB dose seem to be very flexible with his beta plans so given enough feedback something may change. It will probably depend on how blizzard betas operate - were there any unit additions in WoL beta? IIRC units were removed but I have no idea if anything was ever added. On October 02 2012 04:27 Apolo wrote:
[quote]
You're getting it the wrong way. Terran got too much compared to Zerg and Protoss in WoL. It has been the most complete race. Everyone agrees on that. It's only normal this time Terran doesn't get as many new things to balance it out. Is it wrong that by now I can't even tell if this is sarcasm or not? He's right. is the most complete race in WOL. I know my username doesn't help, but and need more to fill in the gap than . Then the problem is with claiming that everyone agrees on it. The only thing about terran completeness I'll agree on is that it's the closest race to being completely broken. It's obviously just an opinion but a very common one in the community. Even Browder aknowledges it somewhat. Dustin Browder: There's currently a concern with the Zerg Infestor's power fungal growth. I still hear a lot of complaints about the Zerg still not being strong enough, as well as Terrans still being too flexible. The latter's the most persistent one for the longest time. That's almost a design flaw not a balance flaw. We just have too many good units in that race. It's hard to cut units in that race and say, "I know you have a lot of good units, but we're killing two because [your race] is too good." (laughs) That's not going to work. And it's not fun to go, "Hey, you know that unit that was fun and useful? Well, we ruined it, so now your race is balanced." That feels terrible too. Those are some of the hot areas I've heard. It's definitely the majority opinion on reddit mejogid [440 votes]If by broken, you mean underpowered then, maybe... but has been the most dominant race in WOL by such a large margin, maybe it's not so bad we relinquish some domination at the end of WOL's lifetime i think that terran is still missing a good lategame gas sink. Maybe the new battlecruiser will fill this role, or possibly the raven if it gets adjusted. I don't really think having excess gas should necessarily be considered a problem, basically that means Terran spends more minerals than gas which is good, because they have mules and minerals are easier to get. Then mapmakers should stop implementing extra Gas geysirs / rich gas geysirs if one races can't benefit from them for example. Or they should start making maps with extra minerals / fewer gas as well. Looks , it's just not good game design if one race can't spend one of only two resources effectively because the units requiring high amount of that resource are just not very useful . I would think mech play would be very expensive on gas? And how effective is Mech-play in TvP ? HotS didn't change much if anything for TvP , yet.
What about TvZ?
Stop looking at all the negatives, Banshee Mech is slowly becoming a nice alternative to Marine Tank in TvZ so saying having too much gas in lategame is a moronic statement. You frequently see Zergs in late-game having 3k minerals and 0 gas because of Brood/Infestor composition, does that mean it would be fair for them to petition Blizzard for more triple gas bases?
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On October 02 2012 06:08 Condor Hero wrote:Show nested quote +On October 02 2012 06:05 s3rp wrote:On October 02 2012 06:02 kmillz wrote:On October 02 2012 05:44 s3rp wrote:On October 02 2012 05:40 kmillz wrote:On October 02 2012 05:35 xNSwarm wrote:On October 02 2012 05:25 SarcasmMonster wrote:On October 02 2012 04:53 pmp10 wrote:On October 02 2012 04:43 SarcasmMonster wrote:On October 02 2012 04:41 pmp10 wrote:
[quote]
Last time DB wrote about the warhound he said there was no replacement planned.
That would at least explain why blizzard is trying to turn widow mine from a strategic weapon into a full-blown unit.
But then again DB dose seem to be very flexible with his beta plans so given enough feedback something may change.
It will probably depend on how blizzard betas operate - were there any unit additions in WoL beta?
IIRC units were removed but I have no idea if anything was ever added.
[quote]
Is it wrong that by now I can't even tell if this is sarcasm or not? He's right. is the most complete race in WOL. I know my username doesn't help, but and need more to fill in the gap than . Then the problem is with claiming that everyone agrees on it. The only thing about terran completeness I'll agree on is that it's the closest race to being completely broken. It's obviously just an opinion but a very common one in the community. Even Browder aknowledges it somewhat. Dustin Browder: There's currently a concern with the Zerg Infestor's power fungal growth. I still hear a lot of complaints about the Zerg still not being strong enough, as well as Terrans still being too flexible. The latter's the most persistent one for the longest time. That's almost a design flaw not a balance flaw. We just have too many good units in that race. It's hard to cut units in that race and say, "I know you have a lot of good units, but we're killing two because [your race] is too good." (laughs) That's not going to work. And it's not fun to go, "Hey, you know that unit that was fun and useful? Well, we ruined it, so now your race is balanced." That feels terrible too. Those are some of the hot areas I've heard. It's definitely the majority opinion on reddit mejogid [440 votes]If by broken, you mean underpowered then, maybe... but has been the most dominant race in WOL by such a large margin, maybe it's not so bad we relinquish some domination at the end of WOL's lifetime i think that terran is still missing a good lategame gas sink. Maybe the new battlecruiser will fill this role, or possibly the raven if it gets adjusted. I don't really think having excess gas should necessarily be considered a problem, basically that means Terran spends more minerals than gas which is good, because they have mules and minerals are easier to get. Then mapmakers should stop implementing extra Gas geysirs / rich gas geysirs if one races can't benefit from them for example. Or they should start making maps with extra minerals / fewer gas as well. Looks , it's just not good game design if one race can't spend one of only two resources effectively because the units requiring high amount of that resource are just not very useful . I would think mech play would be very expensive on gas? And how effective is Mech-play in TvP ? HotS didn't change much if anything for TvP , yet. What about TvZ? Stop looking at all the negatives, Banshee Mech is slowly becoming a nice alternative to Marine Tank in TvZ so saying having too much gas in lategame is a moronic statement. You frequently see Zergs in late-game having 3k minerals and 0 gas because of Brood/Infestor composition, does that mean it would be fair for them to petition Blizzard for more triple gas bases?
It would still be nice if every Unit in the game had a purpose/use in every MU without beeing overpowered. I hope Blizzard implements changes father down in the Beta to underused old units to at least show some effort
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On October 02 2012 06:05 s3rp wrote:Show nested quote +On October 02 2012 06:02 kmillz wrote:On October 02 2012 05:44 s3rp wrote:On October 02 2012 05:40 kmillz wrote:On October 02 2012 05:35 xNSwarm wrote:On October 02 2012 05:25 SarcasmMonster wrote:On October 02 2012 04:53 pmp10 wrote:On October 02 2012 04:43 SarcasmMonster wrote:On October 02 2012 04:41 pmp10 wrote:On October 02 2012 02:30 Lylat wrote:
I didn't have the chance to get a betakey yet but I watch streams (ForGG and Morrow) and it seems Terrans have no new units except for the mines and the battle helions ? I'm really disappointed as a Terran player since Zergs and Protoss have some cool new units/mechanics...
Or do they plan to add a new one ? Last time DB wrote about the warhound he said there was no replacement planned. That would at least explain why blizzard is trying to turn widow mine from a strategic weapon into a full-blown unit. But then again DB dose seem to be very flexible with his beta plans so given enough feedback something may change. It will probably depend on how blizzard betas operate - were there any unit additions in WoL beta? IIRC units were removed but I have no idea if anything was ever added. On October 02 2012 04:27 Apolo wrote:
[quote]
You're getting it the wrong way. Terran got too much compared to Zerg and Protoss in WoL. It has been the most complete race. Everyone agrees on that. It's only normal this time Terran doesn't get as many new things to balance it out. Is it wrong that by now I can't even tell if this is sarcasm or not? He's right. is the most complete race in WOL. I know my username doesn't help, but and need more to fill in the gap than . Then the problem is with claiming that everyone agrees on it. The only thing about terran completeness I'll agree on is that it's the closest race to being completely broken. It's obviously just an opinion but a very common one in the community. Even Browder aknowledges it somewhat. Dustin Browder: There's currently a concern with the Zerg Infestor's power fungal growth. I still hear a lot of complaints about the Zerg still not being strong enough, as well as Terrans still being too flexible. The latter's the most persistent one for the longest time. That's almost a design flaw not a balance flaw. We just have too many good units in that race. It's hard to cut units in that race and say, "I know you have a lot of good units, but we're killing two because [your race] is too good." (laughs) That's not going to work. And it's not fun to go, "Hey, you know that unit that was fun and useful? Well, we ruined it, so now your race is balanced." That feels terrible too. Those are some of the hot areas I've heard. It's definitely the majority opinion on reddit mejogid [440 votes]If by broken, you mean underpowered then, maybe... but has been the most dominant race in WOL by such a large margin, maybe it's not so bad we relinquish some domination at the end of WOL's lifetime i think that terran is still missing a good lategame gas sink. Maybe the new battlecruiser will fill this role, or possibly the raven if it gets adjusted. I don't really think having excess gas should necessarily be considered a problem, basically that means Terran spends more minerals than gas which is good, because they have mules and minerals are easier to get. Then mapmakers should stop implementing extra Gas geysirs / rich gas geysirs if one races can't benefit from them for example. Or they should start making maps with extra minerals / fewer gas as well. Looks , it's just not good game design if one race can't spend one of only two resources effectively because the units requiring high amount of that resource are just not very useful . I would think mech play would be very expensive on gas? And how effective is Mech-play in TvP ? HotS didn't change much if anything for TvP , yet.
There are actually some very good threads about how to mech a protoss, but that is besides the point. It is still viable and effective in other matchups, so you can't really blame map imbalance just because one match-up a Terran may be floating gas. That extra gas could be useful for supreme late game anyway where the Terran may want to switch to BC's
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On September 30 2012 19:05 Millet wrote:Show nested quote +On September 30 2012 18:39 Big J wrote:On September 30 2012 18:27 Hattori_Hanzo wrote:
Well given its stats, it's a hard sell to me that there are NO COUNTERS to MsC stalker rush, between queen's Transfuse and AA dps and early access to widow mines, I feel it's more a matter of inexperience with the new tactics than imba. I feel like the most problematic thing is going to be blink+MSC in PvP. No obs needed anymore. Well and of course it sucks that you cannot go 3hatch against 1base P anymore (I think). As long as Swarm Hosts are strong enough to use 2base gas income offensively it feels OK. It sure feels like blink all-ins will become really strong wihout needing to invest in a robotics facility like you are saying, both in PvP and in PvT (vs 1 rax expand). On a side note: You have never been able to go 3 base zerg vs 1 base protoss. If so, the protoss is doing something wrong.
Blink all ins are way stronger, if you can deal the dmg early. If your opponent is prepared just enough, it's way to easy to lose your mcore, or force a recall. Because it isn't cloaked, you can't get it as close without it taking a little bit of dmg. As a priority, losing a couple units to kill it off puts you pretty far ahead since your opponent lost vision withit and has to either, wait for a new one to fly across map, build a robo/observer, or do something else. I haven't found enough zergs on hots yet to try stuff like 4gate allin's with the MCore as part of the comp. I've done the 2base 7gate all in with+1 at 7:30, however, because of the MCore, you need to either skip gateway 7 or sacrifice some enconomy and intial warp ins. It's a bit stronger, however it has 3 independent yet big week points now:
1: if you sacrifice a little economy, you can't sustain the 7gate very well, so if you can't break the zerg early, you fall further behind than normal.
2. If you sacrifice the strength of your initial warp in, you run the risk of being deflected more easily at the start. Eitherway, you end up behind in tech if it fails.
3. Sacrificing the upgrade weakens your army significantly.
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On October 02 2012 06:05 s3rp wrote:Show nested quote +On October 02 2012 06:02 kmillz wrote:On October 02 2012 05:44 s3rp wrote:On October 02 2012 05:40 kmillz wrote:On October 02 2012 05:35 xNSwarm wrote:On October 02 2012 05:25 SarcasmMonster wrote:On October 02 2012 04:53 pmp10 wrote:On October 02 2012 04:43 SarcasmMonster wrote:On October 02 2012 04:41 pmp10 wrote:On October 02 2012 02:30 Lylat wrote:
I didn't have the chance to get a betakey yet but I watch streams (ForGG and Morrow) and it seems Terrans have no new units except for the mines and the battle helions ? I'm really disappointed as a Terran player since Zergs and Protoss have some cool new units/mechanics...
Or do they plan to add a new one ? Last time DB wrote about the warhound he said there was no replacement planned. That would at least explain why blizzard is trying to turn widow mine from a strategic weapon into a full-blown unit. But then again DB dose seem to be very flexible with his beta plans so given enough feedback something may change. It will probably depend on how blizzard betas operate - were there any unit additions in WoL beta? IIRC units were removed but I have no idea if anything was ever added. On October 02 2012 04:27 Apolo wrote:
[quote]
You're getting it the wrong way. Terran got too much compared to Zerg and Protoss in WoL. It has been the most complete race. Everyone agrees on that. It's only normal this time Terran doesn't get as many new things to balance it out. Is it wrong that by now I can't even tell if this is sarcasm or not? He's right. is the most complete race in WOL. I know my username doesn't help, but and need more to fill in the gap than . Then the problem is with claiming that everyone agrees on it. The only thing about terran completeness I'll agree on is that it's the closest race to being completely broken. It's obviously just an opinion but a very common one in the community. Even Browder aknowledges it somewhat. Dustin Browder: There's currently a concern with the Zerg Infestor's power fungal growth. I still hear a lot of complaints about the Zerg still not being strong enough, as well as Terrans still being too flexible. The latter's the most persistent one for the longest time. That's almost a design flaw not a balance flaw. We just have too many good units in that race. It's hard to cut units in that race and say, "I know you have a lot of good units, but we're killing two because [your race] is too good." (laughs) That's not going to work. And it's not fun to go, "Hey, you know that unit that was fun and useful? Well, we ruined it, so now your race is balanced." That feels terrible too. Those are some of the hot areas I've heard. It's definitely the majority opinion on reddit mejogid [440 votes]If by broken, you mean underpowered then, maybe... but has been the most dominant race in WOL by such a large margin, maybe it's not so bad we relinquish some domination at the end of WOL's lifetime i think that terran is still missing a good lategame gas sink. Maybe the new battlecruiser will fill this role, or possibly the raven if it gets adjusted. I don't really think having excess gas should necessarily be considered a problem, basically that means Terran spends more minerals than gas which is good, because they have mules and minerals are easier to get. Then mapmakers should stop implementing extra Gas geysirs / rich gas geysirs if one races can't benefit from them for example. Or they should start making maps with extra minerals / fewer gas as well. Looks , it's just not good game design if one race can't spend one of only two resources effectively because the units requiring high amount of that resource are just not very useful . I would think mech play would be very expensive on gas? And how effective is Mech-play in TvP ? HotS didn't change much if anything for TvP , yet.
Tvp is favoring terran a little bit right now. Protoss can use the stargate more safely now, however, it needs to transition before the midgame gets kicking. You need to do a decent amount of harassment as well. Terrans have been working the battle hellion into the bio ball, which really hurts zealots. It seriously weakens the ability to use zealots effectively. Since the battle hellion deals so well with them, tanks can work their way back into the matchup. Mech in Tvp doesn't usually happen(in my experience so far) till the 10-12 minute mark. Been seeing a lot of bio openings that transition into mech. Other than that, mech still has a couple of mobility weak points that protoss can exploit to win. A Big problem I've encountered in PvT, is when terran get ghost while having battle hellions on their composition. It really hurts. Zealots are no longer useful at all. 50dmg to them before they get to hellions, only to be wiped out in a split second. It also makes the Archon a little weaker. So far, protoss hasn't gotten much to deal with Terran in HotS. If the Tempest had splash dmg, even if only a little bit, maybe it could be useful in all matchups. Right now, it's only been a liability to me in all 3. It's only been a unit with low versatiliy. In engaments, it's good for taking out the massive unts however, you wont kill more than a couple during the battle with your tempest. For they're cost, it's just not worth it.
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On October 02 2012 05:33 s3rp wrote:Show nested quote +On October 02 2012 04:43 SarcasmMonster wrote:On October 02 2012 04:41 pmp10 wrote:On October 02 2012 02:30 Lylat wrote:
I didn't have the chance to get a betakey yet but I watch streams (ForGG and Morrow) and it seems Terrans have no new units except for the mines and the battle helions ? I'm really disappointed as a Terran player since Zergs and Protoss have some cool new units/mechanics...
Or do they plan to add a new one ? Last time DB wrote about the warhound he said there was no replacement planned. That would at least explain why blizzard is trying to turn widow mine from a strategic weapon into a full-blown unit. But then again DB dose seem to be very flexible with his beta plans so given enough feedback something may change. It will probably depend on how blizzard betas operate - were there any unit additions in WoL beta? IIRC units were removed but I have no idea if anything was ever added. On October 02 2012 04:27 Apolo wrote:On October 02 2012 02:36 TheLunatic wrote:On October 02 2012 02:30 Lylat wrote:
I didn't have the chance to get a betakey yet but I watch streams (ForGG and Morrow) and it seems Terrans have no new units except for the mines and the battle helions ? I'm really disappointed as a Terran player since Zergs and Protoss have some cool new units/mechanics...
Or do they plan to add a new one ? I think terrans will be getting screwed this expansion You're getting it the wrong way. Terran got too much compared to Zerg and Protoss in WoL. It has been the most complete race. Everyone agrees on that. It's only normal this time Terran doesn't get as many new things to balance it out. Is it wrong that by now I can't even tell if this is sarcasm or not? He's right. is the most complete race in WOL. I know my username doesn't help, but and need more to fill in the gap than . At least a third of Terran options in WoL is total crap. They have most options but since so many of them are just useless this doesn't really matter . Terran in WoL was the most complete race then they made several units and upgrades totally useless now it def. isn't anymore. Zerg probably is right now.
zerg isnt a complete race. its just that the infestor fills every single role
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On October 03 2012 01:45 summerloud wrote:Show nested quote +On October 02 2012 05:33 s3rp wrote:On October 02 2012 04:43 SarcasmMonster wrote:On October 02 2012 04:41 pmp10 wrote:On October 02 2012 02:30 Lylat wrote:
I didn't have the chance to get a betakey yet but I watch streams (ForGG and Morrow) and it seems Terrans have no new units except for the mines and the battle helions ? I'm really disappointed as a Terran player since Zergs and Protoss have some cool new units/mechanics...
Or do they plan to add a new one ? Last time DB wrote about the warhound he said there was no replacement planned. That would at least explain why blizzard is trying to turn widow mine from a strategic weapon into a full-blown unit. But then again DB dose seem to be very flexible with his beta plans so given enough feedback something may change. It will probably depend on how blizzard betas operate - were there any unit additions in WoL beta? IIRC units were removed but I have no idea if anything was ever added. On October 02 2012 04:27 Apolo wrote:On October 02 2012 02:36 TheLunatic wrote:On October 02 2012 02:30 Lylat wrote:
I didn't have the chance to get a betakey yet but I watch streams (ForGG and Morrow) and it seems Terrans have no new units except for the mines and the battle helions ? I'm really disappointed as a Terran player since Zergs and Protoss have some cool new units/mechanics...
Or do they plan to add a new one ? I think terrans will be getting screwed this expansion You're getting it the wrong way. Terran got too much compared to Zerg and Protoss in WoL. It has been the most complete race. Everyone agrees on that. It's only normal this time Terran doesn't get as many new things to balance it out. Is it wrong that by now I can't even tell if this is sarcasm or not? He's right. is the most complete race in WOL. I know my username doesn't help, but and need more to fill in the gap than . At least a third of Terran options in WoL is total crap. They have most options but since so many of them are just useless this doesn't really matter . Terran in WoL was the most complete race then they made several units and upgrades totally useless now it def. isn't anymore. Zerg probably is right now. zerg isnt a complete race. its just that the infestor fills every single role
What defines a "complete" race? O_o
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i wish they would drop the pretense and just rename the battle hellion into firebat and make it buildable from the barracks and give it the firebat model from WoL
if they want to use battle hellion they have to think of something more clever
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Late to the party here but how does the speedier MSC contribute to non-deathball play? It seem to me that it will be another "must-have" unit in a deathball.
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