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I was reading the HOTS BNet forums which are mostly garbage, but the idea here seemed completely sweet:
http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/6712862598
Basically, instead of burrowing mines, you'd burrow a unit that once burrowed, would begin building a small directional mine field, deploying one mine at a time at a cost of 25 minerals or so per mine up to a maximum of 4 or 5 mines. If the unit dies or unburrows, his mine field self-destructs.
The mines would obviously have to be much weaker than the current widow mine stats, and they wouldn't hit air, but this just seems a million times cooler than the current widow mine.
The use is more interesting than the current widow mine because you have to burrow it well ahead of time to allow it time to set up the field, and you have to control both its position and direction to ensure the mine field is built in the right spot. Maybe you'd direct the mine field sideways to cover a wide choke, or maybe you'd direct it vertically to lengthen the damage path through a narrow choke and better protect the mine maker.
It would also be supply efficient enough to use to control space and slow counter-attacks in late-game. You can't afford to cut 30 supply out of your main army for 15 widow mines to block 3 chokes, but if you plan ahead and burrow these guys with enough time to set up their fields, you might be able to get effective space control for only 10 supply.
And the time it would take to establish the mine fields would prevent the mines from sneaking into battles and trying join your main force to score big splash damage. You'd actually have to use these positionally rather than as a combat unit.
Does anyone else think this unit would be infinitely more interesting than the current widow mine? If you agree and have beta access, bump that dude's BNet post and let the devs know how much of an improvement it would be.
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DB's reply is even more interesting:
This would allow the mine layer to effectively do unlimited damage, so long as the mine layer survives. As opposed to now where the Widow Mine sacrifices itself and will only ever do so much damage before it must be replaced. Obviously a buff, but we could balance for this ability.
Interesting idea. Thanks for the post.
He seems receptive.
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So basically, a mine which is a mine layer, acts like a creep tumor?
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Burrowed mine layer, nice idea. But without any other relevant information, it could be either be OP or UP.
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On September 28 2012 11:14 Crawdad wrote:DB's reply is even more interesting: Show nested quote +This would allow the mine layer to effectively do unlimited damage, so long as the mine layer survives. As opposed to now where the Widow Mine sacrifices itself and will only ever do so much damage before it must be replaced. Obviously a buff, but we could balance for this ability.
Interesting idea. Thanks for the post. He seems receptive.
As well be. It would fix so much of what's wrong with the widow mine. Reasons people don't like the widow mine:
-doesn't feel like a full-fledged unit
-is bad at space control (10 supply per choke is unreasonable)
-is way too good at shutting down air and drop harass (Whoops, your 12 mutas flew over the wrong corner of my base! Guess you instantly lose!)
-conceptually overlaps in with baneling
A mine layer would instantly correct all of those. It would feel like a true unit, would have some real separation from a baneling, would be good for space control, and wouldn't prevent air and drop harass.
From a design and fun perspective, this unit would be miles and miles better than the current widow mine.
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Sounds like it resembles a defensive swarm host more than anything else in the game, although obviously it's not quite like that either. Seems to be an interesting idea, I wouldn't mind seeing how it worked out in-game.
The upgrades issue (which he also mentions in his post), is an old point of contention with Terran, but worth considering. My impression had always been that the larger division of upgrades for Terran compared to the other two races was intended to counter Terran having a relatively short and linear tech path. The design doesn't seem to quite balance out that way though.
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On September 28 2012 11:26 kcdc wrote:
From a design and fun perspective, this unit would be miles and miles better than the current widow mine.
As long as it still looks like a robot and not a Transformer, LOL.
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Dude, humans have had used traps since cavemen.
Zerg do not have a monopoly of mine technology.
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Hope the DB post is sincere and not pr.
Would definitely be a cool idea, I like the idea as it frees up supply while remaining balanced. I'm afraid of the idea because it kinda sorta feels like the swarm host.
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Nah, its gameplay would be the exact opposite of how the swarm host plays. The swarm host plays as a siege unit and needs army support to protect its position. The mine layer plays as positional defense and stays away from your main army protecting against flanks and couter-attacks.
In BW terms, the swarm host is a siege tank and the mine layer would be some spider mines.
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Such a tremendous improvement over the kamikaze factory unit we have now. Kamikaze units are just really boring generally.
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On September 28 2012 14:06 ledarsi wrote:
Such a tremendous improvement over the kamikaze factory unit we have now. Kamikaze units are just really boring generally.
I don't know what you're smoking. But what...
Excuse me but a single medivac drop of 8 marines at the 11min mark in a TvZ game is kamikaze.
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On September 28 2012 14:16 Hattori_Hanzo wrote:Show nested quote +On September 28 2012 14:06 ledarsi wrote:
Such a tremendous improvement over the kamikaze factory unit we have now. Kamikaze units are just really boring generally. I don't know what you're smoking. But what... Excuse me but a single medivac drop of 8 marines at the 11min mark in a TvZ game is kamikaze.
Except that it is a strategic choice, not the defining aspect of the entire unit...
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I love this idea, suicide units are always hard to balance (and that usualy means they end up being underpowered). There are lots of questions. How much dmg should each mine do, I am thinking about 20-30ish splash? How much should this unit cost? (prob around 150/100 with 2 supply each) How long does it take to deploy the mines? (prob about 1 sec per mine starting 3 sec after it starts to get setup), How many mines can it deploy at max? (I am thinking around 5) And I wouldnt have the mines cost minerals.
One idea to think about, would have the mines/mine layer underground (so you cant target them without detection when setup), but have some kind of visible effect on the ground so you can easily see the ground is mined. Provide the deterant and let them get a detector to clear it out, but less "omg there was a mine there?"
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On September 28 2012 14:22 Crawdad wrote:Show nested quote +On September 28 2012 14:16 Hattori_Hanzo wrote:On September 28 2012 14:06 ledarsi wrote:
Such a tremendous improvement over the kamikaze factory unit we have now. Kamikaze units are just really boring generally. I don't know what you're smoking. But what... Excuse me but a single medivac drop of 8 marines at the 11min mark in a TvZ game is kamikaze. Except that it is a strategic choice, not the defining aspect of the entire unit...
So placing two mines either closely to maximise damage to spread out to maximise attack path possibility.
Again strategy is needed.
You lack depth of understanding that with 2 supply, building 60 mines leaves one no room for any army and is a really bad idea. But to you, it's DERP AUTOWIN.
If it were that easy, America could just mine all the countries it was at war with and win.
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On September 28 2012 14:59 Hattori_Hanzo wrote:
So placing two mines either closely to maximise damage to spread out to maximise attack path possibility.
Again strategy is needed.
You lack depth of understanding that with 2 supply, building 60 mines leaves one no room for any army and is a really bad idea. But to you, it's DERP AUTOWIN.
If it were that easy, America could just mine all the countries it was at war with and win.
... Are we still talking about the Widow mine? Because the Widow mine is FAAAR from an autowin unit.
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I like the current widow mine, wouldn't mind seeing a drop to 1 supply (with a damage nerf). I think a mine layer is kind of silly considering the vulture was a goddamn hover bike, moved fast as shit and could lay mines, but still have an attack. How or why would a dedicated mine layer be better then putting mines on the hellions?
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I really love this idea ! Hope blizz will read this ! 
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Sounds cool on paper but wont work during engagements which is essential unless its more of a setup first before engagement kind of thing unlike spider mines which were used as both.
But this leads us to the same old conclusion. Mines as units just DONT work. They need a unit that lays them as a limited ability or money costing ability.
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On September 28 2012 15:17 YyapSsap wrote:
Sounds cool on paper but wont work during engagements which is essential unless its more of a setup first before engagement kind of thing unlike spider mines which were used as both.
But this leads us to the same old conclusion. Mines as units just DONT work. They need a unit that lays them as a limited ability or money costing ability.
Widow mines are not the broodwar remake. Placing mines during engagements just ... suck ? It feels weird.
Mech is an immobile army, not one who can move on an place mines everywhere.
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EPT
