EPTAnd yes you could use this mine layer just like you use swarm hosts.
Improved Widow Mine Suggestion - Page 4
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wcr.4fun
Belgium686 Posts
And yes you could use this mine layer just like you use swarm hosts. | ||
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kcdc
United States2311 Posts
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Prime Directive
United States186 Posts
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SarcasmMonster
3136 Posts
On October 02 2012 05:40 Prime Directive wrote: So it lays mines in a direction but if it unburrows the mines die? I'm a little confused as once an enemy runs over a mine don't they know they mine-layer is close? Is that the disadvantage of the unit? Do they stop laying mines when the unit hits a wall?Just checking the concept. Just make the mines deactivate when too far away from the layer, and reactivate if the layer (or a new one) returns to the area. | ||
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avilo
United States4100 Posts
On September 30 2012 07:56 kcdc wrote: They're good for discouraging drop and air harass play at all stages of the game. No. They aren't. Past the 10 minute mark or so you will virtually never want mines in your army again, let alone in your base. Missile turrets cost 0 supply, 0 gas. So no, they are not good at discouraging drop and air harrass at all stages of the game. They are good at it in the first 6-10 minutes of the game or so. Past that and if you build them, you build them at your own peril and are only hurting yourself as Terran. Just don't comment on Terran if you are not willing to research or understand the units. | ||
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Prime Directive
United States186 Posts
On October 02 2012 10:04 avilo wrote: No. They aren't. Past the 10 minute mark or so you will virtually never want mines in your army again, let alone in your base. Missile turrets cost 0 supply, 0 gas. So no, they are not good at discouraging drop and air harrass at all stages of the game. They are good at it in the first 6-10 minutes of the game or so. Past that and if you build them, you build them at your own peril and are only hurting yourself as Terran. Just don't comment on Terran if you are not willing to research or understand the units. They are good at it but it is a sacrifice. No need to discourage ideas. | ||
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Hattori_Hanzo
Singapore1229 Posts
The Viet cong used mines to great effect similar to how artillery fire was used by the US forces. Basically mines were used as a virtual shield or line in the sand that mobile units could dart in and out to goad the enemy into diving into. A late game example would be mass banshee/Viking + leapfrogging WM, as WMs allows the banshees to dart in and out of enemy bases, picking off key targets and goad the enemy to rush onto the mine field. Whereas the same setup in WoL would require tons of siege tanks, marines, PFs and some ravens before it even becomes viable. | ||
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Ramiz1989
12124 Posts
On October 02 2012 10:04 avilo wrote: No. They aren't. Past the 10 minute mark or so you will virtually never want mines in your army again, let alone in your base. Missile turrets cost 0 supply, 0 gas. So no, they are not good at discouraging drop and air harrass at all stages of the game. They are good at it in the first 6-10 minutes of the game or so. Past that and if you build them, you build them at your own peril and are only hurting yourself as Terran. Just don't comment on Terran if you are not willing to research or understand the units. Yes, because 4 Turrets can achieve the same results vs. 25 Mutas as what 3 Mines can, right? Yeah, it is completely cost-inefficient. You are so entertaining with your comments. | ||
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Hattori_Hanzo
Singapore1229 Posts
On October 02 2012 19:40 Ramiz1989 wrote: Yes, because 4 Turrets can achieve the same results vs. 25 Mutas as what 3 Mines can, right? Yeah, it is completely cost-inefficient. You are so entertaining with your comments. Yes! WM makes it so much easier for diamond and below to deal with early 3-hatch into mass muta ling composition. Especially for mech players. | ||
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one-one-one
Sweden551 Posts
On October 02 2012 19:40 Ramiz1989 wrote: Yes, because 4 Turrets can achieve the same results vs. 25 Mutas as what 3 Mines can, right? Yeah, it is completely cost-inefficient. You are so entertaining with your comments. Widow Mines are not going to kill entire packs of mutas if the zerg player isn't awful. Mineral only 0-supply missile turrets + some units left behind to defend will be preferable any day over widow mines. You should know this already, and if you don't you shouldn't make comments like that ... | ||
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BamBam
745 Posts
On September 28 2012 11:25 Hattori_Hanzo wrote: Burrowed mine layer, nice idea. But without any other relevant information, it could be either be OP or UP. Why are you talking about balance in a unit concept thread? Seriously, there is absolutely zero reason to even consider statistical balance (which wouldn't apply to 98% of the players here) compared to actual enjoyment/fun. As for the OP; its a decent idea that would make the mines supply efficient. However my concern is the range these mines have - would they have their own separate range like they do now, or would all mines have the range of this layer? | ||
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Ramiz1989
12124 Posts
On October 02 2012 20:06 one-one-one wrote: Widow Mines are not going to kill entire packs of mutas if the zerg player isn't awful. Mineral only 0-supply missile turrets + some units left behind to defend will be preferable any day over widow mines. You should know this already, and if you don't you shouldn't make comments like that ... 7 Turrets can't do jack shit vs. mass Mutas, but 3 Turrets and 3 Widow Mines can actually destroy whole Muta stack if the Zerg isn't careful for few seconds. You won't be spreading Mutas because of the Turrets, and you will die to Widow Mines. Widow Mines aren't going to kill Mutas because Zerg will completely stop making Mutas when he sees Widow Mines, spreading doesn't help, you don't want to trade 100/100 Muta for 75/25 Widow Mine while damaging the others, and that is in the best case scenario, in worse, you can keep macroing and don't watch your Mutas for 2 second and get your 20 Mutas killed.It can happen to anyone, and even a lot of Pros lose some units that way, problem is, Mines explode and do a lot of AoE damage instantly, so you won't lose "some" but majority of your units that way. I just had enough of this "Mines are bad" bullshit when they completely shut down the Muta harassment and Drop play. You can take a risk and go against the Mines, but you won't trade efficiently. | ||
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BuRRziLLa727
6 Posts
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ddrddrddrddr
1344 Posts
On October 03 2012 00:15 BuRRziLLa727 wrote: What about allowing the widow mine to attach to friendly units, so us Terran could Stim our suicidal marines into mineral lines Pretty sure that's going to cause some drama. | ||
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johnny123
521 Posts
I just rather see more stuff added to the mine. For e.g 1 supply. Let it keep its current damage/hit air/and splash. At 1 supply it will be perfect. Maybe to good , but that can be nerfed if found to be imba. We will never truely get to see mass mine usage until it becomes 1 supply. About why i dont like the idea of this thread for the widow mine, Because it basically turns it into a never use in a real battle sort of unit. That to me is not particularly entertaining. | ||
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kcdc
United States2311 Posts
On October 02 2012 10:04 avilo wrote: No. They aren't. Past the 10 minute mark or so you will virtually never want mines in your army again, let alone in your base. Missile turrets cost 0 supply, 0 gas. So no, they are not good at discouraging drop and air harrass at all stages of the game. They are good at it in the first 6-10 minutes of the game or so. Past that and if you build them, you build them at your own peril and are only hurting yourself as Terran. Just don't comment on Terran if you are not willing to research or understand the units. They 1-shot drops and a couple of them take out flocks of mutas. You don't want to commit a bunch of them to base defense against air, but the threat of WM's changes the calculus of whether it's worth it to try the harass. If there's a 30% chance that at some point you'll have your muta flock randomly blown up while you flash back to your base to inject, you just don't build mutas. Infestors don't get owned by randomly placed WM's, so you dump your gas into infestors instead. | ||
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johnny123
521 Posts
On October 03 2012 04:15 kcdc wrote: They 1-shot drops and a couple of them take out flocks of mutas. You don't want to commit a bunch of them to base defense against air, but the threat of WM's changes the calculus of whether it's worth it to try the harass. If there's a 30% chance that at some point you'll have your muta flock randomly blown up while you flash back to your base to inject, you just don't build mutas. Infestors don't get owned by randomly placed WM's, so you dump your gas into infestors instead. that why it would be a good decision to make vipers spire tech ,and have the blinding cloud affect widow mine so muta harass is possible | ||
Whitewing
United States7483 Posts
On October 03 2012 05:40 johnny123 wrote: that why it would be a good decision to make vipers spire tech ,and have the blinding cloud affect widow mine so muta harass is possible Muta harass will still be possible, just send an overseer with the mutas: upgrade ovie speed if you have to. | ||
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avilo
United States4100 Posts
On October 03 2012 04:15 kcdc wrote: They 1-shot drops and a couple of them take out flocks of mutas. You don't want to commit a bunch of them to base defense against air, but the threat of WM's changes the calculus of whether it's worth it to try the harass. If there's a 30% chance that at some point you'll have your muta flock randomly blown up while you flash back to your base to inject, you just don't build mutas. Infestors don't get owned by randomly placed WM's, so you dump your gas into infestors instead. Missile turrets with the range upgrade cost 0 supply are virtually always more cost effective than widow mines. People need to really get this through their head and understand it. If you're wasting 6 supply on cute "widow mine defense" that is supply that could have been an entire thor + missile turrets. So no, i'm basically being blunt here and telling you a lot of you have no clue what you're talking about. I'm not disagreeing with any of you that having 2 widow mines burrowed with 3 missile turrets is theoretically stronger burst damage vs let's say 10-20 mutalisks vs just 4-5 missile turrets. I completely agree with you on that. The problem is at a high level of play, you are literally sticking a knife into your leg by using mines in that manner. The supply can be in an effective army unit rather than a 2 supply mine. Missile turrets cost 0 supply, so past the 10 minute mark you'll virtually always be building missile turrets that cost no supply, and no gas, with thors to increase your effective army supply (just to clarify if people are misunderstanding why I'm saying widow mines on defense are terrible). | ||
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KevoStream
Peru20 Posts
Shredder can have only control of 3 widow mines at a time, u can place them where u want and leave them there.(buildable like scarabs) Also you can pick them up with shredder to move their position. (Can carry up to 3 mines) So basicly its a mine layer moving mines and making mine fields. Widow mines dont attack air units. And there is an upgrade for shredder, upgrading its humber of mines carried to 5 and boositing its movement speed. Also mines can start with a normal damage output imagine. 100 dmg and 50 dmg splash. Upgradable to 180 Dmg and 80 dmg splash. Mines stack on targets, so 1 zealot or 1 zergling can make 2 o 3 mines suicide. | ||
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