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On September 17 2012 18:05 DuckNuked wrote:
Reapers are ALREADY great on TvP late game transition and in TvT BiovsMech. These buffs will made them essentials I Think.
- They don't use stim = more energy in medivacs = more heal on your maraudeurs/Ghost or hurted reapers.
- Due to no-stim, they have actually more HP than marines (45/55 against 50/50)
- They get rid of gas. Big benefit for Terran Bioplay.
- They absolutly CRUSH zealots heavy armys, in combination with maraudeurs, you kill them faster without being touched. They also are beating Hellion 1 on 1, or BFHellion food for food.
- They are pop effective against Stalkers (yes, just make the test)
- 1 Round of Reapers let you save something like 145 minerals compared to 1 rax maraudeur/Marine. Enough to make another Rax, or with more rounds, another CC. (40 sec reapers make 75/75 cost by min. 200/50/min for maraudeur and 240/0/min for reactored marines)
- Another way to harass. More mobility.
- Can be agressive before medivacs are out, let's imagine with combat awarness against FFs cliffs. And they are f*****g great to pick off HT.
With the HoTS buffs, Reapers will be even more better, loosing the building attack is not a big deal, just makes Widows mines on your factory to keep some map control. With Reaper speed and your medivacs, Terran Bioplay harass will be far more frightening, and in frontal fight, far more effective since mines don't really need upgrades to be cool. And it don't stopped you to make heavy air Transition since even Viking/Ghost/Maraudeur/Reaper/Medivac composition don't get rid of all your gas.
There was alot of discussion about reaper use in late game tvp and it just doesnt work. First is the build time, they take way too long to build so reinforcing your army is impossible. Second is they cant stim, meaning they are the first to die when you stim/kite, they just melt.
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Russian Federation125 Posts
I have awesome idea for reapers in tvt.
Imagine this stage in tvt when you start to cover at least your main with mass turrets against drops.
So air attack isn't an option, but a squad of reapers can quickly go in kill turrets and clear space for your mass drop.>
It's shame that reapers was nerfed in hots and don't have grenades 
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With speed they are faster than marines/maraudeur stimed. So NO they just don't melt when you kite/fly away, and they have more life than marines stimmed. Second, the build time allows you tu put MORE RAX AND CC, with the minerals you keep by building them. So you have faster reinforcement than with only MMMVG. So your arguments are invalid, but my tests on TvP Master level made my points valids.
Like QxC and Thorzain Tests btw.
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Blizzard should release a manual on how people are supposed to play SC2, so they don't need to balance it so often .. as soon as new strategies appear(most of them being ALWAYS OP).
Good to hear the carrier is back at least.
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United Kingdom38255 Posts
Watching Terran streams is making me sad, almost no widow mine usage from anyone =(
With no warhound + widow mines getting minimal usage lots of T play just looks like it's straight out of wings. Even watching mech vP is basically seeing people play like you would do it now anyway.
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ok i dont get why they would bring back the carrier it make no sense its never ever used unless you so stupidly ahead and want to have fun and then you might lose its not good as were the warhound was broken and can be fixed is gone and would be used in tvp and tvt all the time.im glad blizzard is listing to us but come on taking away a unit that would help the tvp balance and giving us a unit that well suck just because its nostalgic is not a good game plan
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Is there any videos of the new Oracle skils ? I don't have a damn key, the trick to play the beta offline isn't working anymore and HD and Husky haven't seemed to upload any good matches since the new patch. I want to see people flock to carriers and try the new bloodmage skill or whatever it is from the oracle :/
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On September 17 2012 22:44 starslayer wrote:
ok i dont get why they would bring back the carrier it make no sense its never ever used unless you so stupidly ahead and want to have fun and then you might lose its not good as were the warhound was broken and can be fixed is gone and would be used in tvp and tvt all the time.im glad blizzard is listing to us but come on taking away a unit that would help the tvp balance and giving us a unit that well suck just because its nostalgic is not a good game plan
Yeah. Heaven's forbid anyone trying to have fun in this game! The horror!
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United Kingdom12022 Posts
On September 17 2012 22:44 starslayer wrote:
ok i dont get why they would bring back the carrier it make no sense its never ever used unless you so stupidly ahead and want to have fun and then you might lose its not good as were the warhound was broken and can be fixed is gone and would be used in tvp and tvt all the time.im glad blizzard is listing to us but come on taking away a unit that would help the tvp balance and giving us a unit that well suck just because its nostalgic is not a good game plan
Are you trolling?
The carrier is really good against Terran mech. Terran Mech's GtA is terrible meaning if they returned the carrier micro tricks from BW, then it'll be an incredible unit.
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On September 17 2012 22:44 starslayer wrote:
ok i dont get why they would bring back the carrier it make no sense its never ever used unless you so stupidly ahead and want to have fun and then you might lose its not good as were the warhound was broken and can be fixed is gone and would be used in tvp and tvt all the time.im glad blizzard is listing to us but come on taking away a unit that would help the tvp balance and giving us a unit that well suck just because its nostalgic is not a good game plan
The most ironic thing about this post is that if the Warhound were still in, the Carrier would be way more useful than it is now.
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I suspect that Reaper upgrade is going to be absolutely huge.
I'm sure they're working on a replacement or at least a fundamental change to the warhound. This is still beta, remember - they're probably taking this opportunity to see what Terran is missing against the rest of the HoTS units so they can pick what sort of unit should go in the Warhound's place.
That said, adding the Carrier back to the game probably would have destroyed Mech vs Toss anyway, at least in the late game. Whatever they put in the Warhound's place is going to have to do well vs Carriers or else Mech is always going to be cheese.
Not sure what to think of the Oracle change. I have no idea how effective the anti-fungal thing will be. Removing strike cannons would have been a big deal had Carriers not been returned to the game anyway.
Until I see "PDD no longer defends against Tempests' attacks", I don't expect to see a single one made vs Terran.
MS core change is probably an overshoot. They've both made the unit worth what it costed before and made it cost what it was worth before. I assume that testing in the next weeks will reveal which of those changes was more in order. (Also, range 10 MS core harass vs Zerg sounds hilarious.)
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They should just allow combat shields to buff reapers.
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I dont understand where they want to go with protoss. They now have Mothership, Tempest, and Carrier. The bigger the better?
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On September 17 2012 23:02 Qikz wrote:Show nested quote +On September 17 2012 22:44 starslayer wrote:
ok i dont get why they would bring back the carrier it make no sense its never ever used unless you so stupidly ahead and want to have fun and then you might lose its not good as were the warhound was broken and can be fixed is gone and would be used in tvp and tvt all the time.im glad blizzard is listing to us but come on taking away a unit that would help the tvp balance and giving us a unit that well suck just because its nostalgic is not a good game plan Are you trolling? The carrier is really good against Terran mech. Terran Mech's GtA is terrible meaning if they returned the carrier micro tricks from BW, then it'll be an incredible unit.
nobody's gonna go mech vP now just like nobody did in WoL. bring back carrier, keep tempest, remove warhound, give reapers vision uphill. really? wtf logic? basically protoss got a 22 range air unit for free. this ain't dota blizzard, vision uphill on a reaper is as useful as a blink dagger on magina. give it to tanks and it may make some sense. Actually nobody's gonna play Terran anymore except for freakin' MVP so blizzard can justify the next terran nerfs. I give up, i'm going back to full time dota 2. At least icefrog doesn't change the game evey time someone qqs for a week. And in that game you can ban the protoss, hurray! GL finding terrans on ladder, i really look forward to what everyone's going to whine about when there'll be only mirror matches left to play.
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did i ever say that carriers are bad against mech not i said carrier are useless there terrible bad units.and that warhound(if fixed will help tvp you flaming rage nerds and conti did you read what i wrote you can only go carriers if you are soooooooooooo stupidly ahead like 8 bases to 2 to even think about using carriers and even then you might lose learn to read and stop make stupid comments like that so tell me wheres the fun in that
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On September 16 2012 07:57 teamhozac wrote:Show nested quote +On September 16 2012 06:37 Cloak wrote:On September 15 2012 19:41 Naphal wrote:On September 15 2012 19:23 Cloak wrote:On September 15 2012 19:13 zimms wrote:On September 15 2012 18:52 Cloak wrote:On September 15 2012 18:45 ApocAlypsE007 wrote:
From what I watched in streams, Terran players now stick to WoL style. I don't think this is what we want and what Blizzard wants... Terrans have always been the most resistant to trying new units because of how attractive Marine/Marauder is. It took several months for Terrans to realize there were Medivacs, Ghosts, and Vikings. Going from clear domination of Warhound to nothingness is a sharp jolt, but they'll start to ease into WM/BH/Tank soon enough. If they can't close the gap, Blizz will step in with WH 2.0. You must be so proud of yourself for not playing Terran. Seriously, it took Terrans months until they used Medivacs and Vikings? -.- I'm not proud. I just remember how beta (and early WoL) played out. Terrans were absolutely convinced Colossus was unstoppable, then they were like, what if... I made... an air unit? It seems obvious now, but because it's been almost 2 years. You can watch the old GSLs and see how most games were proxy Barracks or Stim-timings. It wasn't Terran's fault, because they worked, and players go for the path of least resistance. you and i clearly have VERY different memories then. terran was the first race to fully discover their possibilities, they found out how to effeciently (ab)use all their units before protoss even built their first warpprism in a professional game (whitera excluded) or zerg learned to make infestors. not to mention every metagameshift for protoss or zerg was encouraged by flatout buffing them, terrans in comparison got themselves nerfed, the reaper got totally destroyed, the thor and the ghost basically removed from certain matchups. i remember fully well how protoss never got beyond warpgaterushing for a long time, or how zerg made roach hydra every zvp and ling muta every zvt. but no, terran did not stop there, mkp took what was left and invented the 1 1 1, provoking yet another buff for protoss, hellion harrass was too hard for ladderzerg, so queen got buffed, terran is now balanced for toptier pros, so toptier infact, that you see very few of them outside of korea. if bw bonjwas had not been mainly terrans, and mvp mma mkp polt would have assisted nestea or mc with developing zerg or protoss instead, the game would look fundamentally different now. but now in the present, you still see zerg amoving their infestors with their army, or protoss amoving their colossi so they attack some extractor when there is a fight only a bit further ahead... in GSL!!! sure there are terrans that play badly as well from time to time, with the tiny difference, that they get fucking destroyed if they do. so why is the colossus not removed? why do archons and chargelost perform so well under attack-move? is that not killing esports? is zerg lategame not overpowered? shouldn't the skill ceiling for zerg and protoss be increased to match terrans? this hypocrisy sickens me, i shall take a break and play black mesa mod for now... It's funny you mention MKP, or as he used to be known as Boxer or Foxer. You know what he debuted as? The Terran that never took gas. All he would make was OCs and Marines, and he won. Maybe he started eventually doing 1-1-1, the steamroll easy mode build that originally had an 80% win rate, but that wasn't for months into the game. The ironic thing is that Protoss got no changes to deal with that build, only Warp Gate nerfs. It took a year before the Protoss meta managed to deal with such a strong build. Wanna know what happened when Protoss used Void Rays against Terrans who would spam Marauders? They were nerfed to the ground to make sure Void Ray would never be viable again in PvT. Protoss Gateway units just couldn't (and can't) compete, so they're driven to go to tech. Terran never had such pressure to go beyond Barracks. You're going to argue about hypocrisy with me with your Terran-tinted glasses? Casters galore were lamenting over how stale the Terran meta was. Of course every unit was used at some point, but whether they became staples of strategy was a different thing entirely. Wow this post lol... youre using mass marine strat from ONE PLAYER as an example that terran was too strong and terran never adapted? most ridiculous thing ive seen in this forum... 4 gate beats just about any terran who doesnt scout and isnt prepared for it, just like 1/1/1 beats most protoss who dont scout/arent prepared... seriously what on earth are you whining about? Gateway units are terrible? This post lol
Teamhozac I remember you de-railing several other threads with your idiotic rambling. You are the biggest and most biased keyboard warrior of all time. Get a life
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On September 18 2012 00:33 Kabras wrote:
nobody's gonna go mech vP now just like nobody did in WoL. bring back carrier, keep tempest, remove warhound, give reapers vision uphill. really? wtf logic? basically protoss got a 22 range air unit for free. this ain't dota blizzard, vision uphill on a reaper is as useful as a blink dagger on magina. give it to tanks and it may make some sense. Actually nobody's gonna play Terran anymore except for freakin' MVP so blizzard can justify the next terran nerfs. I give up, i'm going back to full time dota 2. At least icefrog doesn't change the game evey time someone qqs for a week. And in that game you can ban the protoss, hurray! GL finding terrans on ladder, i really look forward to what everyone's going to whine about when there'll be only mirror matches left to play.
Next patch, Terran is gonna be completely different and this entire ranting paragraph will be invalidated.
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On September 18 2012 00:59 Crawdad wrote:Show nested quote +On September 18 2012 00:33 Kabras wrote:
nobody's gonna go mech vP now just like nobody did in WoL. bring back carrier, keep tempest, remove warhound, give reapers vision uphill. really? wtf logic? basically protoss got a 22 range air unit for free. this ain't dota blizzard, vision uphill on a reaper is as useful as a blink dagger on magina. give it to tanks and it may make some sense. Actually nobody's gonna play Terran anymore except for freakin' MVP so blizzard can justify the next terran nerfs. I give up, i'm going back to full time dota 2. At least icefrog doesn't change the game evey time someone qqs for a week. And in that game you can ban the protoss, hurray! GL finding terrans on ladder, i really look forward to what everyone's going to whine about when there'll be only mirror matches left to play. Next patch, Terran is gonna be completely different and this entire ranting paragraph will be invalidated.
if by different you mean worse, like it has been for the last 10 patches or so, you're right. not so much about the ranting part though, everything i said is true. now how about you post some legit argument instead of random bashing trying to look important? oh, wait... xD
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On September 18 2012 00:33 Kabras wrote:Show nested quote +On September 17 2012 23:02 Qikz wrote:On September 17 2012 22:44 starslayer wrote:
ok i dont get why they would bring back the carrier it make no sense its never ever used unless you so stupidly ahead and want to have fun and then you might lose its not good as were the warhound was broken and can be fixed is gone and would be used in tvp and tvt all the time.im glad blizzard is listing to us but come on taking away a unit that would help the tvp balance and giving us a unit that well suck just because its nostalgic is not a good game plan Are you trolling? The carrier is really good against Terran mech. Terran Mech's GtA is terrible meaning if they returned the carrier micro tricks from BW, then it'll be an incredible unit. nobody's gonna go mech vP now just like nobody did in WoL. bring back carrier, keep tempest, remove warhound, give reapers vision uphill. really? wtf logic? basically protoss got a 22 range air unit for free. this ain't dota blizzard, vision uphill on a reaper is as useful as a blink dagger on magina. give it to tanks and it may make some sense. Actually nobody's gonna play Terran anymore except for freakin' MVP so blizzard can justify the next terran nerfs. I give up, i'm going back to full time dota 2. At least icefrog doesn't change the game evey time someone qqs for a week. And in that game you can ban the protoss, hurray! GL finding terrans on ladder, i really look forward to what everyone's going to whine about when there'll be only mirror matches left to play.
15 range...
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On September 18 2012 01:25 Kabras wrote:if by different you mean worse, like it has been for the last 10 patches or so, you're right. not so much about the ranting part though, everything i said is true. now how about you post some legit argument instead of random bashing trying to look important? oh, wait... xD
You're acting like mech will stay lackluster in TvP. First of all, it stomped all over Protoss prior to the last patch, so we have seen that it is possible. Second of all, it will most likely be viable by release, because Blizzard has specifically stated that they're trying to make mech an option in that MU. So no, I don't think Terran is going to be worse than it is now.
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EPT
