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I don't think many people will be playing Terran in the next expansion since they gain basically nothing compared to the interesting stuff Protoss and Zerg are getting... Damn
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United Kingdom12022 Posts
On September 17 2012 09:36 NKexquisite wrote:
I don't think many people will be playing Terran in the next expansion since they gain basically nothing compared to the interesting stuff Protoss and Zerg are getting... Damn
We don't need interesting stuff though. Why do people keep coming out with this?
We just need a viable way of playing mech against protoss to diversify the game some more, it could work with just battlehellions, hellions, tanks and mines, but we can't tell since no terran will try it. All the pros are still playing Bio in the beta for no reason at all other than to win :/
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On September 17 2012 09:44 Qikz wrote:Show nested quote +On September 17 2012 09:36 NKexquisite wrote:
I don't think many people will be playing Terran in the next expansion since they gain basically nothing compared to the interesting stuff Protoss and Zerg are getting... Damn We don't need interesting stuff though. Why do people keep coming out with this? We just need a viable way of playing mech against protoss to diversify the game some more, it could work with just battlehellions, hellions, tanks and mines, but we can't tell since no terran will try it. All the pros are still playing Bio in the beta for no reason at all other than to win :/
You misunderstood what I said. I said people won't be playing Terran because it isn't (new) and interesting. People always flock towards the shiny new stuff... I didn't mean that Terran needed it literally (although time will tell) 
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On September 17 2012 09:44 Qikz wrote:
We just need a viable way of playing mech against protoss to diversify the game some more, it could work with just battlehellions, hellions, tanks and mines, but we can't tell since no terran will try it. All the pros are still playing Bio in the beta for no reason at all other than to win :/
Most people don't even know how to micro their mines, or that you can build BHs without an upgrade. I'm sorry to say this, but Blizzard is probably gonna have to dumb down the game before players understand how to use their own units.
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On September 17 2012 07:51 teamhozac wrote:Show nested quote +On September 16 2012 23:40 Ryder. wrote:On September 16 2012 22:44 Figgy wrote:On September 16 2012 20:53 Ryder. wrote:On September 16 2012 17:10 Godwrath wrote:On September 16 2012 16:23 teamhozac wrote:On September 16 2012 16:16 Ryder. wrote:
I don't understand why they aren't playing around with fixing the voidray and carrier like they are with Terran reapers, battlecruisers. tank (upgrade damage buff) and even raven... Terran is generally thought of as being the most complete race, yet Blizzard seems to be giving 110% to making everything about Terran viable... What have they done for protoss? Not a single change to existing units, introduced a couple of gimmicks and a slower mothership, and removed high ground warp in. Its almost like they want everyone to play Terran. Please tell me that was sarcasm... Probably he is just stupid. Terrans got some nerfs, including the battle-hellions which had a very good timing attack on tvz (maybe that's why... but the zerg player can go roaches instead of lings....) This has nothing to do with buffs and nerfs or how strong things are, its about trying to make everything in a race viable and complete. I do like the mothership core, but tempests are just an anti massive unit (a lot like corruptor) and yeah I'm stoked they brought carrier back in but I hoping they intend to play around with it and not just dump it in and say 'there have your carrier back. Lets go work on battlecruisers...' I wasn't trolling or whining about balance at all, just wondering why they were fiddling around with most of terran's under used units and not protosses. Perhaps you could voice your opinion on the matter instead of adding nothing to the discussion. On September 16 2012 17:29 Godwrath wrote:On September 16 2012 17:21 SoniC_eu wrote:On September 16 2012 16:16 Ryder. wrote:
I don't understand why they aren't playing around with fixing the voidray and carrier like they are with Terran reapers, battlecruisers. tank (upgrade damage buff) and even raven... Terran is generally thought of as being the most complete race, yet Blizzard seems to be giving 110% to making everything about Terran viable... What have they done for protoss? Not a single change to existing units, introduced a couple of gimmicks and a slower mothership, and removed high ground warp in. Its almost like they want everyone to play Terran. They juuuuuuuust introduced carriers again bro, what you on about? "Gimmicks" = more skytoss units which seem pretty useful in PvT and PvZ. A slower Mship? `How about the Mship core which defends against early all ins? It's almost like, or wait, no, you ARE a lil troll aren't you? :D And oracles being able to prevent every mechanich out there... PvZ is gonna get wild. What mechanics other than fungal and abduct would it be used on? Are you JOKING? The Oracle and Tempest just got massive changes to make them more viable (and fun). How can you say they aren't tweaking Protoss? Hell, instead of playing around with the Warhound they just outright removed it. If that isn't boning Terran exploration I don't know what is. It sounds like you didn't even bother to read the patch notes and won't be satisfied until the Carrier gets an extreme buff or rework. I'm talking about EXISTING units. Notice how I brought up BCs, reapers, battlecruisers, tanks? Hell blizzard are even trying to help zergs existing units with hydra speed and ultra charge. Don't see why you cant take your rage hats off for a second and read what I'm saying. And I honestly don't know how anyone will be happy if carrier doesn't get rework... One of the most underused units in the game; I guess its pretty neat what they did; they take it out and when they replace it everyone is so happy that it gets brought back in they completely forget they wanted it buffed in the first place. Also they are taking out the Warhound so they can work on it in-house before they bring it back in. Pretty sure Browder said explicitly that. On September 16 2012 22:46 teamhozac wrote:On September 16 2012 22:44 Figgy wrote:On September 16 2012 20:53 Ryder. wrote:On September 16 2012 17:10 Godwrath wrote:On September 16 2012 16:23 teamhozac wrote:On September 16 2012 16:16 Ryder. wrote:
I don't understand why they aren't playing around with fixing the voidray and carrier like they are with Terran reapers, battlecruisers. tank (upgrade damage buff) and even raven... Terran is generally thought of as being the most complete race, yet Blizzard seems to be giving 110% to making everything about Terran viable... What have they done for protoss? Not a single change to existing units, introduced a couple of gimmicks and a slower mothership, and removed high ground warp in. Its almost like they want everyone to play Terran. Please tell me that was sarcasm... Probably he is just stupid. Terrans got some nerfs, including the battle-hellions which had a very good timing attack on tvz (maybe that's why... but the zerg player can go roaches instead of lings....) This has nothing to do with buffs and nerfs or how strong things are, its about trying to make everything in a race viable and complete. I do like the mothership core, but tempests are just an anti massive unit (a lot like corruptor) and yeah I'm stoked they brought carrier back in but I hoping they intend to play around with it and not just dump it in and say 'there have your carrier back. Lets go work on battlecruisers...' I wasn't trolling or whining about balance at all, just wondering why they were fiddling around with most of terran's under used units and not protosses. Perhaps you could voice your opinion on the matter instead of adding nothing to the discussion. On September 16 2012 17:29 Godwrath wrote:On September 16 2012 17:21 SoniC_eu wrote:On September 16 2012 16:16 Ryder. wrote:
I don't understand why they aren't playing around with fixing the voidray and carrier like they are with Terran reapers, battlecruisers. tank (upgrade damage buff) and even raven... Terran is generally thought of as being the most complete race, yet Blizzard seems to be giving 110% to making everything about Terran viable... What have they done for protoss? Not a single change to existing units, introduced a couple of gimmicks and a slower mothership, and removed high ground warp in. Its almost like they want everyone to play Terran. They juuuuuuuust introduced carriers again bro, what you on about? "Gimmicks" = more skytoss units which seem pretty useful in PvT and PvZ. A slower Mship? `How about the Mship core which defends against early all ins? It's almost like, or wait, no, you ARE a lil troll aren't you? :D And oracles being able to prevent every mechanich out there... PvZ is gonna get wild. What mechanics other than fungal and abduct would it be used on? Are you JOKING? The Oracle and Tempest just got massive changes to make them more viable (and fun). How can you say they aren't tweaking Protoss? Hell, instead of playing around with the Warhound they just outright removed it. If that isn't boning Terran exploration I don't know what is. It sounds like you didn't even bother to read the patch notes and won't be satisfied until the Carrier gets an extreme buff or rework. He definitely has his blinders on Thanks again for your second useless one line contribution. Why bother arguing your point when you can just say things like 'please tell me that was sarcasm' and 'he definitely has his blinders on' Edit: I even explicitly said 'existing' units, guess you missed that too when you started going on about tempest and oracle. Was simply wondering why Blizzard hasn't touched any of the existing toss units when they have for terran and zerg, no need for everyone to get all antsy about it. Because youre just being ridiculous, "blizz is catering to terran" "blizz apparently wants everyone to play terran" When Terran is the LEAST represented race on the ladder, is getting the fewest changes in HotS, etc. Terran got a reaper change, a widow mine, and a hellion upgrade, and youre seriously whining like this? Protoss got all kinds of new shit, who cares if they didnt change a few of the existing units, you want your cake and to eat it too eh?
Terran getting the fewest changes in HoTS? And you are saying that I have my blinkers up? I'll walk you through it so we are on the same page
Terran is getting 3 new units (just like toss); Battle hellion (please dont say it isn't a new unit just because you transform them from hellions), Widow Mine and Warhound (temporarily removed so Blizzard can work in it in house)
In addition, Terran had changes to; reapers (extensive changes), Battlecruisers (damage), Raven (move speed and energy), Tanks (upgrade scaling). I understand a couple of these changes have been rolled back due to 'bugs', but it shows that Blizzard are at least playing around with terran. This combined with the fact that the general consensus is that Terran don't even need a bunch of new shit (just something to make mech viable) means I really don't understand you at all.
On September 17 2012 09:21 Kharnage wrote:Show nested quote +On September 17 2012 07:51 teamhozac wrote:On September 16 2012 23:40 Ryder. wrote:On September 16 2012 22:44 Figgy wrote:On September 16 2012 20:53 Ryder. wrote:On September 16 2012 17:10 Godwrath wrote:On September 16 2012 16:23 teamhozac wrote:On September 16 2012 16:16 Ryder. wrote:
I don't understand why they aren't playing around with fixing the voidray and carrier like they are with Terran reapers, battlecruisers. tank (upgrade damage buff) and even raven... Terran is generally thought of as being the most complete race, yet Blizzard seems to be giving 110% to making everything about Terran viable... What have they done for protoss? Not a single change to existing units, introduced a couple of gimmicks and a slower mothership, and removed high ground warp in. Its almost like they want everyone to play Terran. Please tell me that was sarcasm... Probably he is just stupid. Terrans got some nerfs, including the battle-hellions which had a very good timing attack on tvz (maybe that's why... but the zerg player can go roaches instead of lings....) This has nothing to do with buffs and nerfs or how strong things are, its about trying to make everything in a race viable and complete. I do like the mothership core, but tempests are just an anti massive unit (a lot like corruptor) and yeah I'm stoked they brought carrier back in but I hoping they intend to play around with it and not just dump it in and say 'there have your carrier back. Lets go work on battlecruisers...' I wasn't trolling or whining about balance at all, just wondering why they were fiddling around with most of terran's under used units and not protosses. Perhaps you could voice your opinion on the matter instead of adding nothing to the discussion. On September 16 2012 17:29 Godwrath wrote:On September 16 2012 17:21 SoniC_eu wrote:On September 16 2012 16:16 Ryder. wrote:
I don't understand why they aren't playing around with fixing the voidray and carrier like they are with Terran reapers, battlecruisers. tank (upgrade damage buff) and even raven... Terran is generally thought of as being the most complete race, yet Blizzard seems to be giving 110% to making everything about Terran viable... What have they done for protoss? Not a single change to existing units, introduced a couple of gimmicks and a slower mothership, and removed high ground warp in. Its almost like they want everyone to play Terran. They juuuuuuuust introduced carriers again bro, what you on about? "Gimmicks" = more skytoss units which seem pretty useful in PvT and PvZ. A slower Mship? `How about the Mship core which defends against early all ins? It's almost like, or wait, no, you ARE a lil troll aren't you? :D And oracles being able to prevent every mechanich out there... PvZ is gonna get wild. What mechanics other than fungal and abduct would it be used on? Are you JOKING? The Oracle and Tempest just got massive changes to make them more viable (and fun). How can you say they aren't tweaking Protoss? Hell, instead of playing around with the Warhound they just outright removed it. If that isn't boning Terran exploration I don't know what is. It sounds like you didn't even bother to read the patch notes and won't be satisfied until the Carrier gets an extreme buff or rework. I'm talking about EXISTING units. Notice how I brought up BCs, reapers, battlecruisers, tanks? Hell blizzard are even trying to help zergs existing units with hydra speed and ultra charge. Don't see why you cant take your rage hats off for a second and read what I'm saying. And I honestly don't know how anyone will be happy if carrier doesn't get rework... One of the most underused units in the game; I guess its pretty neat what they did; they take it out and when they replace it everyone is so happy that it gets brought back in they completely forget they wanted it buffed in the first place. Also they are taking out the Warhound so they can work on it in-house before they bring it back in. Pretty sure Browder said explicitly that. On September 16 2012 22:46 teamhozac wrote:On September 16 2012 22:44 Figgy wrote:On September 16 2012 20:53 Ryder. wrote:On September 16 2012 17:10 Godwrath wrote:On September 16 2012 16:23 teamhozac wrote:On September 16 2012 16:16 Ryder. wrote:
I don't understand why they aren't playing around with fixing the voidray and carrier like they are with Terran reapers, battlecruisers. tank (upgrade damage buff) and even raven... Terran is generally thought of as being the most complete race, yet Blizzard seems to be giving 110% to making everything about Terran viable... What have they done for protoss? Not a single change to existing units, introduced a couple of gimmicks and a slower mothership, and removed high ground warp in. Its almost like they want everyone to play Terran. Please tell me that was sarcasm... Probably he is just stupid. Terrans got some nerfs, including the battle-hellions which had a very good timing attack on tvz (maybe that's why... but the zerg player can go roaches instead of lings....) This has nothing to do with buffs and nerfs or how strong things are, its about trying to make everything in a race viable and complete. I do like the mothership core, but tempests are just an anti massive unit (a lot like corruptor) and yeah I'm stoked they brought carrier back in but I hoping they intend to play around with it and not just dump it in and say 'there have your carrier back. Lets go work on battlecruisers...' I wasn't trolling or whining about balance at all, just wondering why they were fiddling around with most of terran's under used units and not protosses. Perhaps you could voice your opinion on the matter instead of adding nothing to the discussion. On September 16 2012 17:29 Godwrath wrote:On September 16 2012 17:21 SoniC_eu wrote:On September 16 2012 16:16 Ryder. wrote:
I don't understand why they aren't playing around with fixing the voidray and carrier like they are with Terran reapers, battlecruisers. tank (upgrade damage buff) and even raven... Terran is generally thought of as being the most complete race, yet Blizzard seems to be giving 110% to making everything about Terran viable... What have they done for protoss? Not a single change to existing units, introduced a couple of gimmicks and a slower mothership, and removed high ground warp in. Its almost like they want everyone to play Terran. They juuuuuuuust introduced carriers again bro, what you on about? "Gimmicks" = more skytoss units which seem pretty useful in PvT and PvZ. A slower Mship? `How about the Mship core which defends against early all ins? It's almost like, or wait, no, you ARE a lil troll aren't you? :D And oracles being able to prevent every mechanich out there... PvZ is gonna get wild. What mechanics other than fungal and abduct would it be used on? Are you JOKING? The Oracle and Tempest just got massive changes to make them more viable (and fun). How can you say they aren't tweaking Protoss? Hell, instead of playing around with the Warhound they just outright removed it. If that isn't boning Terran exploration I don't know what is. It sounds like you didn't even bother to read the patch notes and won't be satisfied until the Carrier gets an extreme buff or rework. He definitely has his blinders on Thanks again for your second useless one line contribution. Why bother arguing your point when you can just say things like 'please tell me that was sarcasm' and 'he definitely has his blinders on' Edit: I even explicitly said 'existing' units, guess you missed that too when you started going on about tempest and oracle. Was simply wondering why Blizzard hasn't touched any of the existing toss units when they have for terran and zerg, no need for everyone to get all antsy about it. Because youre just being ridiculous, "blizz is catering to terran" "blizz apparently wants everyone to play terran" When Terran is the LEAST represented race on the ladder, is getting the fewest changes in HotS, etc. Terran got a reaper change, a widow mine, and a hellion upgrade, and youre seriously whining like this? Protoss got all kinds of new shit, who cares if they didnt change a few of the existing units, you want your cake and to eat it too eh? It is worth pointing out that the carrier sees very little use because of it's current build time / resource cost. Everyone has known this for a very long time and bringing it back with the same stats isn't going to improve it much. Asking for upgrades or changes to the protoss gateway and robo units is silly. they are all good, useful units. I don't think anyone would mind a colossus rework terribly, but that aside, everything gets used in every matchup. The obvious holes for protoss is the lack of decent harass units and the completely unviable 'air-toss'. Bringing back the carrier returns the meat of the protoss armada. It will be interstesting to see if carrier tempest phoenix is a workable composition.
I never said anything about reworking gateway or robo units, I said specifically carrier and void rays. Though I don't see how you can use 'usage in competitive games' as an indication as whether a unit needs rework, since colossus are used extensively in every matchup yet are by and large the number 1 unit voted that people want removed/changed.
On September 17 2012 09:29 teamhozac wrote:Show nested quote +On September 17 2012 09:21 Kharnage wrote:On September 17 2012 07:51 teamhozac wrote:On September 16 2012 23:40 Ryder. wrote:On September 16 2012 22:44 Figgy wrote:On September 16 2012 20:53 Ryder. wrote:On September 16 2012 17:10 Godwrath wrote:On September 16 2012 16:23 teamhozac wrote:On September 16 2012 16:16 Ryder. wrote:
I don't understand why they aren't playing around with fixing the voidray and carrier like they are with Terran reapers, battlecruisers. tank (upgrade damage buff) and even raven... Terran is generally thought of as being the most complete race, yet Blizzard seems to be giving 110% to making everything about Terran viable... What have they done for protoss? Not a single change to existing units, introduced a couple of gimmicks and a slower mothership, and removed high ground warp in. Its almost like they want everyone to play Terran. Please tell me that was sarcasm... Probably he is just stupid. Terrans got some nerfs, including the battle-hellions which had a very good timing attack on tvz (maybe that's why... but the zerg player can go roaches instead of lings....) This has nothing to do with buffs and nerfs or how strong things are, its about trying to make everything in a race viable and complete. I do like the mothership core, but tempests are just an anti massive unit (a lot like corruptor) and yeah I'm stoked they brought carrier back in but I hoping they intend to play around with it and not just dump it in and say 'there have your carrier back. Lets go work on battlecruisers...' I wasn't trolling or whining about balance at all, just wondering why they were fiddling around with most of terran's under used units and not protosses. Perhaps you could voice your opinion on the matter instead of adding nothing to the discussion. On September 16 2012 17:29 Godwrath wrote:On September 16 2012 17:21 SoniC_eu wrote:On September 16 2012 16:16 Ryder. wrote:
I don't understand why they aren't playing around with fixing the voidray and carrier like they are with Terran reapers, battlecruisers. tank (upgrade damage buff) and even raven... Terran is generally thought of as being the most complete race, yet Blizzard seems to be giving 110% to making everything about Terran viable... What have they done for protoss? Not a single change to existing units, introduced a couple of gimmicks and a slower mothership, and removed high ground warp in. Its almost like they want everyone to play Terran. They juuuuuuuust introduced carriers again bro, what you on about? "Gimmicks" = more skytoss units which seem pretty useful in PvT and PvZ. A slower Mship? `How about the Mship core which defends against early all ins? It's almost like, or wait, no, you ARE a lil troll aren't you? :D And oracles being able to prevent every mechanich out there... PvZ is gonna get wild. What mechanics other than fungal and abduct would it be used on? Are you JOKING? The Oracle and Tempest just got massive changes to make them more viable (and fun). How can you say they aren't tweaking Protoss? Hell, instead of playing around with the Warhound they just outright removed it. If that isn't boning Terran exploration I don't know what is. It sounds like you didn't even bother to read the patch notes and won't be satisfied until the Carrier gets an extreme buff or rework. I'm talking about EXISTING units. Notice how I brought up BCs, reapers, battlecruisers, tanks? Hell blizzard are even trying to help zergs existing units with hydra speed and ultra charge. Don't see why you cant take your rage hats off for a second and read what I'm saying. And I honestly don't know how anyone will be happy if carrier doesn't get rework... One of the most underused units in the game; I guess its pretty neat what they did; they take it out and when they replace it everyone is so happy that it gets brought back in they completely forget they wanted it buffed in the first place. Also they are taking out the Warhound so they can work on it in-house before they bring it back in. Pretty sure Browder said explicitly that. On September 16 2012 22:46 teamhozac wrote:On September 16 2012 22:44 Figgy wrote:On September 16 2012 20:53 Ryder. wrote:On September 16 2012 17:10 Godwrath wrote:On September 16 2012 16:23 teamhozac wrote:On September 16 2012 16:16 Ryder. wrote:
I don't understand why they aren't playing around with fixing the voidray and carrier like they are with Terran reapers, battlecruisers. tank (upgrade damage buff) and even raven... Terran is generally thought of as being the most complete race, yet Blizzard seems to be giving 110% to making everything about Terran viable... What have they done for protoss? Not a single change to existing units, introduced a couple of gimmicks and a slower mothership, and removed high ground warp in. Its almost like they want everyone to play Terran. Please tell me that was sarcasm... Probably he is just stupid. Terrans got some nerfs, including the battle-hellions which had a very good timing attack on tvz (maybe that's why... but the zerg player can go roaches instead of lings....) This has nothing to do with buffs and nerfs or how strong things are, its about trying to make everything in a race viable and complete. I do like the mothership core, but tempests are just an anti massive unit (a lot like corruptor) and yeah I'm stoked they brought carrier back in but I hoping they intend to play around with it and not just dump it in and say 'there have your carrier back. Lets go work on battlecruisers...' I wasn't trolling or whining about balance at all, just wondering why they were fiddling around with most of terran's under used units and not protosses. Perhaps you could voice your opinion on the matter instead of adding nothing to the discussion. On September 16 2012 17:29 Godwrath wrote:On September 16 2012 17:21 SoniC_eu wrote:On September 16 2012 16:16 Ryder. wrote:
I don't understand why they aren't playing around with fixing the voidray and carrier like they are with Terran reapers, battlecruisers. tank (upgrade damage buff) and even raven... Terran is generally thought of as being the most complete race, yet Blizzard seems to be giving 110% to making everything about Terran viable... What have they done for protoss? Not a single change to existing units, introduced a couple of gimmicks and a slower mothership, and removed high ground warp in. Its almost like they want everyone to play Terran. They juuuuuuuust introduced carriers again bro, what you on about? "Gimmicks" = more skytoss units which seem pretty useful in PvT and PvZ. A slower Mship? `How about the Mship core which defends against early all ins? It's almost like, or wait, no, you ARE a lil troll aren't you? :D And oracles being able to prevent every mechanich out there... PvZ is gonna get wild. What mechanics other than fungal and abduct would it be used on? Are you JOKING? The Oracle and Tempest just got massive changes to make them more viable (and fun). How can you say they aren't tweaking Protoss? Hell, instead of playing around with the Warhound they just outright removed it. If that isn't boning Terran exploration I don't know what is. It sounds like you didn't even bother to read the patch notes and won't be satisfied until the Carrier gets an extreme buff or rework. He definitely has his blinders on Thanks again for your second useless one line contribution. Why bother arguing your point when you can just say things like 'please tell me that was sarcasm' and 'he definitely has his blinders on' Edit: I even explicitly said 'existing' units, guess you missed that too when you started going on about tempest and oracle. Was simply wondering why Blizzard hasn't touched any of the existing toss units when they have for terran and zerg, no need for everyone to get all antsy about it. Because youre just being ridiculous, "blizz is catering to terran" "blizz apparently wants everyone to play terran" When Terran is the LEAST represented race on the ladder, is getting the fewest changes in HotS, etc. Terran got a reaper change, a widow mine, and a hellion upgrade, and youre seriously whining like this? Protoss got all kinds of new shit, who cares if they didnt change a few of the existing units, you want your cake and to eat it too eh? It is worth pointing out that the carrier sees very little use because of it's current build time / resource cost. Everyone has known this for a very long time and bringing it back with the same stats isn't going to improve it much. Asking for upgrades or changes to the protoss gateway and robo units is silly. they are all good, useful units. I don't think anyone would mind a colossus rework terribly, but that aside, everything gets used in every matchup. The obvious holes for protoss is the lack of decent harass units and the completely unviable 'air-toss'. Bringing back the carrier returns the meat of the protoss armada. It will be interstesting to see if carrier tempest phoenix is a workable composition. Air protoss is actually seeing a comeback against the new meching style of terran because it does not have much anti air, but with the removal of warhound who knows if that will still be the case. Tempests are pretty awesome I dont care what anyone says, they force vikings which no terran ever wants to make, believe me. Some of these new maps have HUGE dead space areas that tempests can sit and snipe all day.
I do love how optimistic Terrans are about the new protoss units! Please remember that the only change to tempest was a +20 buff vs massive and losing 7 range. They are still just as useless now vs anything that isn't massive (such as vikings, and I guess anything else terran feels like making except BC and thors), so fortunately for you I don't think they will force as many vikings as you have predicted.
I'm curious to how much protoss HoTS beta you have played/watched, since I don't quite understand your enthusiasm for Tempests in PvT.
Edit: On September 17 2012 10:18 ROOTFayth wrote:Show nested quote +On September 17 2012 10:08 NKexquisite wrote:On September 17 2012 09:44 Qikz wrote:On September 17 2012 09:36 NKexquisite wrote:
I don't think many people will be playing Terran in the next expansion since they gain basically nothing compared to the interesting stuff Protoss and Zerg are getting... Damn We don't need interesting stuff though. Why do people keep coming out with this? We just need a viable way of playing mech against protoss to diversify the game some more, it could work with just battlehellions, hellions, tanks and mines, but we can't tell since no terran will try it. All the pros are still playing Bio in the beta for no reason at all other than to win :/ You misunderstood what I said. I said people won't be playing Terran because it isn't (new) and interesting. People always flock towards the shiny new stuff... I didn't mean that Terran needed it literally (although time will tell) lol protoss doesn't have much more interesting new shiny stuff
Clearly I'm not the only one...
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On September 17 2012 10:08 NKexquisite wrote:Show nested quote +On September 17 2012 09:44 Qikz wrote:On September 17 2012 09:36 NKexquisite wrote:
I don't think many people will be playing Terran in the next expansion since they gain basically nothing compared to the interesting stuff Protoss and Zerg are getting... Damn We don't need interesting stuff though. Why do people keep coming out with this? We just need a viable way of playing mech against protoss to diversify the game some more, it could work with just battlehellions, hellions, tanks and mines, but we can't tell since no terran will try it. All the pros are still playing Bio in the beta for no reason at all other than to win :/ You misunderstood what I said. I said people won't be playing Terran because it isn't (new) and interesting. People always flock towards the shiny new stuff... I didn't mean that Terran needed it literally (although time will tell)
lol protoss doesn't have much more interesting new shiny stuff
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Just to clarify, the Battlecruiser still has its Yamato buff... Right?
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Seems like the controversies surrounding Diablo 3 (and the high praise Valve has been getting for being so responsive to community feedback with Dota 2) finally made blizzard realize that their other franchises' communities are not like WoW's, and they can and should be a valuable source of ideas and constructive feedback.
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On September 17 2012 09:44 Qikz wrote:Show nested quote +On September 17 2012 09:36 NKexquisite wrote:
I don't think many people will be playing Terran in the next expansion since they gain basically nothing compared to the interesting stuff Protoss and Zerg are getting... Damn We don't need interesting stuff though. Why do people keep coming out with this? We just need a viable way of playing mech against protoss to diversify the game some more, it could work with just battlehellions, hellions, tanks and mines, but we can't tell since no terran will try it. All the pros are still playing Bio in the beta for no reason at all other than to win :/
I have a question, maybe a dumb one, if you do not buy HotS does that mean you will not be able to play multiplayer with the new units? Seems reeeeeally stupid if you have no interest in playing the zerg campaign and just want to keep laddering with the most updated sc2 that you have to pay whatever it is going to be...
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So you went from "OMFG Blizzard loves Terran and wants everyone to play terran they made so many changes and upgrades to terran to:
"I understand a couple of these changes have been rolled back due to 'bugs', but it shows that Blizzard are at least playing around with terran. "
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Beta has been around for less then 2 weeks. Terran will obviously get some new shit.
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On September 17 2012 02:41 PhOeniX[MinD] wrote:
they're trying too hard to make the reaper work, they should end his pain and just kill the idea of it!
i agree, the real problem is the build time.
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On September 17 2012 10:28 teamhozac wrote:
So you went from "OMFG Blizzard loves Terran and wants everyone to play terran they made so many changes and upgrades to terran to:
"I understand a couple of these changes have been rolled back due to 'bugs', but it shows that Blizzard are at least playing around with terran. "
You are still missing the point. These changes were clearly in house changes that were not supposed to go live. It still shows they have been playing around with the units, even if they chose not to stick with those specific changes. Even though they removed the battlecruiser speed boost a short time ago it still shows they were trying to make the unit work. We haven't seen any evidence of this from carrier or void ray.
Even disregarding the ones that got taken back in the latest patch, there are still plenty of changes with Terran's existing units that did go through so you can't argue that Terran has got no attention this expansion.
On September 17 2012 10:26 teamhozac wrote:Show nested quote +On September 17 2012 09:44 Qikz wrote:On September 17 2012 09:36 NKexquisite wrote:
I don't think many people will be playing Terran in the next expansion since they gain basically nothing compared to the interesting stuff Protoss and Zerg are getting... Damn We don't need interesting stuff though. Why do people keep coming out with this? We just need a viable way of playing mech against protoss to diversify the game some more, it could work with just battlehellions, hellions, tanks and mines, but we can't tell since no terran will try it. All the pros are still playing Bio in the beta for no reason at all other than to win :/ I have a question, maybe a dumb one, if you do not buy HotS does that mean you will not be able to play multiplayer with the new units? Seems reeeeeally stupid if you have no interest in playing the zerg campaign and just want to keep laddering with the most updated sc2 that you have to pay whatever it is going to be...
Well believe it or not there are still costs associated with designing and balancing these new units, as well as maintaining servers and implementing the new Battlenet features they outlined a few months ago. So it makes sense you have to pay for it.
I heard a while back people who stick with WoL will still get the new Bnet features however
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On September 17 2012 13:25 Tsuki.eu wrote:Show nested quote +On September 17 2012 02:41 PhOeniX[MinD] wrote:
they're trying too hard to make the reaper work, they should end his pain and just kill the idea of it! i agree, the real problem is the build time.
lol? i think the reaper just needs a redesign.
as it is currently it will be so broken in tvt
Characteristics of the reaper:
- Cannot be added to the deathball.
- Its a scout and harass oriented unit.
- Requires lots of micro.
The change i propose is:
Stats
- Same stats as before
- 200 energy
- 2 supply ( so it wont be massed )
Abilities:
Throw charge 3 seconds deployment, usable on buildings( works as a static widow mine that cannot move. The widow mine would be removed )
*If used on buildings its a instant cast that deals 100 damage
Energy cost: 50
Research on techlab: 50/50 130 seconds ( Enough time to get detection for every race because of my second ability)
Widow mine stats: 100 damage 20 aoe. ( low aoe)
Cloaking field: Gives cloack for 5 seconds ( dispells on atack but not on deploying mine )
Cost: 75 energy
Passive regen: Regens when out of combat as it is now.
Points to think about.
- The reaper can be included in mech because 3 reaper can deploy a total of 3 mines every 50 seconds for a total cost of 200/200 and still have harass and strong scouting abilities all game long, providing good area control.
- A unit that complements mech as a caster, that doesn't build from factory nor is too expensive.
-A terran will have to think twice before including mines in bio because it will delay stim tech by 130 seconds, so bio wont have such strong defensive capabilities and alot of offensive at same time.
-The reaper wont be in the army because they will be too valuable, they will always be deploying mines, scouting, or harassing workers.
- Fufills the role of map awareness that the terran so much need, but doesn't give map control, only board control.
Assuming a full energy reaper
Possible combos:
-Cloack for 75 energy drop a mine for 50 energy atack workers for a few seconds and cloack out of there.
-Cloack, drop a few mines on the ramp harass main and leave.
-Full base scout for 75 energy if there are no investments in detection.
-Map awareness for 75 energy.
- etc etc.
Give me your toughts, and remember this is not final balance numbers, it is just a overview of what the unit could be.
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Canada142 Posts
On September 17 2012 14:40 Lesrah wrote:Show nested quote +On September 17 2012 13:25 Tsuki.eu wrote:On September 17 2012 02:41 PhOeniX[MinD] wrote:
they're trying too hard to make the reaper work, they should end his pain and just kill the idea of it! i agree, the real problem is the build time. lol? i think the reaper just needs a redesign. as it is currently it will be so broken in tvt Characteristics of the reaper: - Cannot be added to the deathball. - Its a scout and harass oriented unit. - Requires lots of micro. The change i propose is: Stats - Same stats as before - 200 energy - 2 supply ( so it wont be massed ) Abilities: Throw charge 3 seconds deployment, usable on buildings( works as a static widow mine that cannot move. The widow mine would be removed ) *If used on buildings its a instant cast that deals 100 damage Energy cost: 50 Research on techlab: 50/50 130 seconds ( Enough time to get detection for every race because of my second ability) Widow mine stats: 100 damage 20 aoe. ( low aoe) Cloaking field: Gives cloack for 5 seconds ( dispells on atack but not on deploying mine ) Cost: 75 energy Passive regen: Regens when out of combat as it is now. Points to think about. - The reaper can be included in mech because 3 reaper can deploy a total of 3 mines every 50 seconds for a total cost of 200/200 and still have harass and strong scouting abilities all game long, providing good area control. - A unit that complements mech as a caster, that doesn't build from factory nor is too expensive. -A terran will have to think twice before including mines in bio because it will delay stim tech by 130 seconds, so bio wont have such strong defensive capabilities and alot of offensive at same time. -The reaper wont be in the army because they will be too valuable, they will always be deploying mines, scouting, or harassing workers. - Fufills the role of map awareness that the terran so much need, but doesn't give map control, only board control. Assuming a full energy reaper Possible combos: -Cloack for 75 energy drop a mine for 50 energy atack workers for a few seconds and cloack out of there. -Cloack, drop a few mines on the ramp harass main and leave. -Full base scout for 75 energy if there are no investments in detection. -Map awareness for 75 energy. - etc etc. Give me your toughts, and remember this is not final balance numbers, it is just a overview of what the unit could be.
Mines with only an energy cost seem imbalanced (unless the mines time out on their own). It seems way too strong to get a constant stream of free mines from a unit. In BW, vultures could only ever place 3, and you had to build them at the factory, so this cut into tank/goliath production. Not only was there a heavy opportunity cost for producing vultures, you only got 3 spider mines in total. That was a better mechanism, IMO.
Additionally, every cloaked unit in the game is fairly slow, and there's a good reason for that--especially if they can attack. Cloaked reapers seem ridiculous. They're too mobile.
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maaan now I don't have a new unit as terran?
that's sad
also: why would they change the immortal shields so they work vs warhounds if they remove them? is it like preemptive because they may return "if they locate a better design" for it?
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I like the new ability of the reapers, however imo it shouldn't be called "battle awareness", but "looking up". As in:
"Oh, some Marine just shot me IN A STRAIGHT LINE. I better look up and see where he is standing."
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On September 17 2012 06:05 Grumbels wrote:Show nested quote +On September 17 2012 05:56 MoonCricket wrote:
The Reaper is an awesome unit in a good design space right now, the micro battles vs Queens, Stalkers and Marines with Battle Awareness make opening with Reapers incredibly exciting. I don't know, it basically makes reapers a lot easier to control. It makes them more powerful as well, but did terran really need a vision mechanic like this? It negates the fun of the cliff jumping, no longer do you need to jump up and down to guarantee vision, you just automatically get it. If they want reapers to be useful than they should just try to find some level of stats for them which makes them good to add into your army instead of marines when facing purely light armored enemies.
It also eliminates the frustration of cliff jumping your Reaper into a Stalker or Marine and instantly dying. I don't think they're trying to make the Reaper a beginning to end game unit, because that would require Reapers to be able to use Stimpacks and basically you'd have Marine/Medivacs between the ability to see up cliffs, cliff jump, activate stims and then heal out of combat.
I think if they want to re-design Reapers correctly, you keep Battle Awareness, move Combat Drugs to the Tech Lab as a 50/50, 60 second upgrade and add Reapers to Stimpacks and they'd be pretty good until you get to the Medivac/Marine phase of the game. Basically, you could just build a tech lab onto your Barracks and constantly produce Reapers as harrassment while going Mech and then build a Ghost Academy for when the Reaper harass is worthless.
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Reapers are ALREADY great on TvP late game transition and in TvT BiovsMech. These buffs will made them essentials I Think.
- They don't use stim = more energy in medivacs = more heal on your maraudeurs/Ghost or hurted reapers.
- Due to no-stim, they have actually more HP than marines (45/55 against 50/50)
- They get rid of gas. Big benefit for Terran Bioplay.
- They absolutly CRUSH zealots heavy armys, in combination with maraudeurs, you kill them faster without being touched. They also are beating Hellion 1 on 1, or BFHellion food for food.
- They are pop effective against Stalkers (yes, just make the test)
- 1 Round of Reapers let you save something like 145 minerals compared to 1 rax maraudeur/Marine. Enough to make another Rax, or with more rounds, another CC. (40 sec reapers make 75/75 cost by min. 200/50/min for maraudeur and 240/0/min for reactored marines)
- Another way to harass. More mobility.
- Can be agressive before medivacs are out, let's imagine with combat awarness against FFs cliffs. And they are f*****g great to pick off HT.
With the HoTS buffs, Reapers will be even more better, loosing the building attack is not a big deal, just makes Widows mines on your factory to keep some map control. With Reaper speed and your medivacs, Terran Bioplay harass will be far more frightening, and in frontal fight, far more effective since mines don't really need upgrades to be cool. And it don't stopped you to make heavy air Transition since even Viking/Ghost/Maraudeur/Reaper/Medivac composition don't get rid of all your gas.
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Haha oh wow stasis but the unit can still attack!
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EPT
