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Active: 27639 users

Warhound did NOT fix mech

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 HotS
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1 2 Next All
bhfberserk
Profile Joined August 2011
Canada390 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-09-10 07:55:04
September 09 2012 15:59 GMT
#1
Introduction:
Warhound was designed with the concept of breaking tank lines, give an option of mech in TvP.
Source: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=351659

"- Terran never goes factory against Protoss
- TvT is stale with tank lines, and the only way to break out of it is the sky battles."

A) Did blizzard really fix mech or just cheated?

The concepts of mech is immobile, powerful, slow, difficult to max.[/i]

In TvZ, TvT, the power of mech is the siege tank, because it is an unit that gives long range, high splash damage but in exchange, it is very immobile because it has to siege up.

But with the introduction of Warhound, which has the movement speed of 2.81 (Which is faster than marine marauda (2.75). Mech in TvP seems very fast and mobile.

Warhound's ability Haywire missile is an anti mech missile that is strong against most protoss units. This makes the warhound the core unit of mech, replacing the siege tank.
Warhound created a mobile powerful mech force. Which completely takes away the dynamic of mech style from WOL.

B) Why help break tank lines when tank position is part of the game we love?

Sc2 should be more about positioning, which I enjoy to see the introduction of SwarmHost. Afterall, Sc2 is a game of strategy but not game of "Macro" then "A- Move". A well positioned unit should be rewarded and gain exponential power.

TvT Tank line battle is evolving. Forward sensor tower to spot tank lines, Terran Mech with air dominance, Bio + Tank to have mobility to catch tanks unsiege. I do not wish to see Warhound as a unit that every players use to break tank lines.

Closing

I play both mech and bio. I enjoy the different dynamic of each style, but seeing Warhound in the beta videos makes me worry about the design of Warhound. Warhound should not be the core of a mech army but rather a "Buffer" or Support unit.

Simple Suggestion:

Give the Haywire Missile ability to the Thor. (Change it to Haywire 250mm Cannon)
It can cost 75 energy to activate. It can be balanced however you want.

1. Thor is not an easily massed unit, so it will not become the one-sided friendly A-move unit against the Protoss.

2. Haywire 250mm Cannon should be target fire against Immortals to rid the shield and protect the siege tanks. (More effective if micro-ed or can be auto-cast)

3. Thor remains as our siege breaker. But it is not an easy task to break siege line, because again, Thor is not easily massed.

4. Give Warhound the anti-air from Thor. (balance accordingly) GvG remain similar as to now. So, Warhound is now the meat of the mech army, which its role is to buffer the tanks as well as providing anti-air.

=================================================

On the Side:
My personal opinion on the design of Warhound:

The design of warhound just too look awkward for me...
Warhound Evolution:
+ Show Spoiler +
[image loading]

+ Show Spoiler +
[image loading]

How can we have such bad !@# thor, but such poorly design warhound...


Battle.net Link: http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/6522913181#5
iamthedave
Profile Joined February 2011
England2814 Posts
September 09 2012 16:02 GMT
#2
Wait, so is mech now viable in T v P or not?
I'm not bad at Starcraft; I just think winning's rude.
pmp10
Profile Joined April 2012
3291 Posts
September 09 2012 16:07 GMT
#3
On September 10 2012 01:02 iamthedave wrote:
Wait, so is mech now viable in T v P or not?

Nobody knows as the beta is still new.
Most terrans still try to kill protoss midgame to the point of allining so there is no telling how lategame macro situations would look like.
I'd say that right now it's not a good idea to go pure mech without ghosts but only time will tell.
bhfberserk
Profile Joined August 2011
Canada390 Posts
September 09 2012 16:11 GMT
#4
Viable or not will come in time with balance patches. But what I would hate to see is mass Warhound A-move against siege lines and win.
As well as Tanks being not viable in TvP, since people might just mass warhound...
Garmer
Profile Joined October 2010
1286 Posts
September 09 2012 16:21 GMT
#5
i think tanks are viable now with their +7 from upgrade and battle-hellion, but people always go for the easy way of course
Dagan159
Profile Joined July 2012
United States203 Posts
September 09 2012 16:31 GMT
#6
Thor cant seige break with their movement speed. The warhound needs to be fast to break seiege lines. WIth the BC and raven upgrades, I feel like sky terran is gonna be very prevelant in HotS
The ultimate weapon. nuff said.
Sapphire.lux
Profile Joined July 2010
Romania2620 Posts
September 09 2012 16:34 GMT
#7
On September 10 2012 01:21 Garmer wrote:
i think tanks are viable now with their +7 from upgrade and battle-hellion, but people always go for the easy way of course

What? They get +7 instead of +5?
Head Coach Park: "They should buff tanks!"
NKexquisite
Profile Joined January 2009
United States911 Posts
September 09 2012 16:35 GMT
#8
What upgrade did the BC and Raven get?
Whattttt Upppppppp Im Nesteaaaaaa!!
Tamburlaine
Profile Joined April 2010
Canada288 Posts
September 09 2012 16:37 GMT
#9
Raven has cheaper hunter-seekers and better speed. BC has better anti-ground and cheaper yamato.
I like things.
Garmer
Profile Joined October 2010
1286 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-09-09 17:02:32
September 09 2012 17:01 GMT
#10
On September 10 2012 01:34 Sapphire.lux wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 10 2012 01:21 Garmer wrote:
i think tanks are viable now with their +7 from upgrade and battle-hellion, but people always go for the easy way of course

What? They get +7 instead of +5?

yeah, you heard it right, +3 tank do 71 damage instead of 65
pmp10
Profile Joined April 2012
3291 Posts
September 09 2012 17:03 GMT
#11
On September 10 2012 02:01 Garmer wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 10 2012 01:34 Sapphire.lux wrote:
On September 10 2012 01:21 Garmer wrote:
i think tanks are viable now with their +7 from upgrade and battle-hellion, but people always go for the easy way of course

What? They get +7 instead of +5?

yeah, you heard it right, +3 tank do 71 damage instead of 65

To armored you mean.
WeRRa
Profile Joined December 2010
378 Posts
September 09 2012 17:30 GMT
#12
Warhounds are supposed to be golitaths, i really don't understand why blizzard is so stubborn, it's so obvious and i think the tank wars are part of the TvT and switching it from tank wars to a-move mech wars, is not better
InnoVation Fighting!!!
Godwrath
Profile Joined August 2012
Spain10121 Posts
September 09 2012 17:33 GMT
#13
On September 10 2012 02:03 pmp10 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 10 2012 02:01 Garmer wrote:
On September 10 2012 01:34 Sapphire.lux wrote:
On September 10 2012 01:21 Garmer wrote:
i think tanks are viable now with their +7 from upgrade and battle-hellion, but people always go for the easy way of course

What? They get +7 instead of +5?

yeah, you heard it right, +3 tank do 71 damage instead of 65

To armored you mean.


That's the point. Siege tanks + warhound support totally rape warhound spam.
Sapphire.lux
Profile Joined July 2010
Romania2620 Posts
September 09 2012 17:46 GMT
#14
On September 10 2012 02:01 Garmer wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 10 2012 01:34 Sapphire.lux wrote:
On September 10 2012 01:21 Garmer wrote:
i think tanks are viable now with their +7 from upgrade and battle-hellion, but people always go for the easy way of course

What? They get +7 instead of +5?

yeah, you heard it right, +3 tank do 71 damage instead of 65

I did no expect that, it's awesome, or at least a begining.
Head Coach Park: "They should buff tanks!"
pmp10
Profile Joined April 2012
3291 Posts
September 09 2012 17:51 GMT
#15
On September 10 2012 02:33 Godwrath wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 10 2012 02:03 pmp10 wrote:
On September 10 2012 02:01 Garmer wrote:
On September 10 2012 01:34 Sapphire.lux wrote:
On September 10 2012 01:21 Garmer wrote:
i think tanks are viable now with their +7 from upgrade and battle-hellion, but people always go for the easy way of course

What? They get +7 instead of +5?

yeah, you heard it right, +3 tank do 71 damage instead of 65

To armored you mean.


That's the point. Siege tanks + warhound support totally rape warhound spam.

Spam perhaps but there are better ways to utilize that unit.
As is I'm not convinced that (unlike warhound) siege tanks have any future in TvT.
Godwrath
Profile Joined August 2012
Spain10121 Posts
September 09 2012 18:01 GMT
#16
On September 10 2012 02:51 pmp10 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 10 2012 02:33 Godwrath wrote:
On September 10 2012 02:03 pmp10 wrote:
On September 10 2012 02:01 Garmer wrote:
On September 10 2012 01:34 Sapphire.lux wrote:
On September 10 2012 01:21 Garmer wrote:
i think tanks are viable now with their +7 from upgrade and battle-hellion, but people always go for the easy way of course

What? They get +7 instead of +5?

yeah, you heard it right, +3 tank do 71 damage instead of 65

To armored you mean.


That's the point. Siege tanks + warhound support totally rape warhound spam.

Spam perhaps but there are better ways to utilize that unit.
As is I'm not convinced that (unlike warhound) siege tanks have any future in TvT.


Could you elaborate why not ? Siege tanks are still a powerful tool to have, and warhounds doesn't neglect that.
pmp10
Profile Joined April 2012
3291 Posts
September 09 2012 18:15 GMT
#17
On September 10 2012 03:01 Godwrath wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 10 2012 02:51 pmp10 wrote:
On September 10 2012 02:33 Godwrath wrote:
On September 10 2012 02:03 pmp10 wrote:
On September 10 2012 02:01 Garmer wrote:
On September 10 2012 01:34 Sapphire.lux wrote:
On September 10 2012 01:21 Garmer wrote:
i think tanks are viable now with their +7 from upgrade and battle-hellion, but people always go for the easy way of course

What? They get +7 instead of +5?

yeah, you heard it right, +3 tank do 71 damage instead of 65

To armored you mean.


That's the point. Siege tanks + warhound support totally rape warhound spam.

Spam perhaps but there are better ways to utilize that unit.
As is I'm not convinced that (unlike warhound) siege tanks have any future in TvT.


Could you elaborate why not ? Siege tanks are still a powerful tool to have, and warhounds doesn't neglect that.

I think it's a question of army build-up time.
Tanks become dis-proportionally more powerful as their number increase.
But that means that somewhere in mid-game a timing should exist when warhounds and other units can beat a player that has yet to build-up a substantial number of tanks.
But that's just theorycrafting.
SarcasmMonster
Profile Joined October 2011
3136 Posts
September 09 2012 18:30 GMT
#18
On September 10 2012 02:01 Garmer wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 10 2012 01:34 Sapphire.lux wrote:
On September 10 2012 01:21 Garmer wrote:
i think tanks are viable now with their +7 from upgrade and battle-hellion, but people always go for the easy way of course

What? They get +7 instead of +5?

yeah, you heard it right, +3 tank do 71 damage instead of 65


Blizzard giving lots of love to <3
MMA: The true King of Wings
Doc Daneeka
Profile Joined March 2010
United States577 Posts
September 09 2012 22:26 GMT
#19
not a big fan of the warhound. i think it's the only new unit i don't like, besides maybe the oracle, but the oracle at least hasn't broken anything yet. from what i've been watching the warhound has been making mech really uninteresting and actually less different from bio than it was before. so in the sense that terran can now mix and match more different units yeah it's more versatile, but it seems like less choice in strategy. i dunno i suck at terran so maybe i'm missing something, that's just my perspective as spectator to this beta.
payed off security
DemigodcelpH
Profile Joined August 2011
1138 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-09-10 00:27:35
September 10 2012 00:27 GMT
#20
Warhound needs to have ground power nerfed and given a more anti-air OR utility based role. Siege tank needs to be buffed. (apparently they changed the upgrade values but I have no confirmation)

The tank has to be the core. It's one of the best designed units ever created. Mech will then be fixed give or take a few widow mine changes.
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