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Fig
United States1324 Posts
On September 10 2012 03:30 SarcasmMonster wrote: Blizzard giving lots of love to  <3OMG they sure are! They are doing so well with making the less used terran units better. They have revamped every underused unit for terran. I'm really happy about these little tweaks Please change at least one protoss unit now.... | ||
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DougJDempsey
747 Posts
On September 10 2012 02:33 Godwrath wrote: That's the point. Siege tanks + warhound support totally rape warhound spam. im not convinced on that. it seems the warhound has a big enough model that splash doesnt really matter on it. so it might just be more effective to have MORE warhounds than tanks. which changes it into no better than roach vs roach zvz. | ||
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Harbinger631
United States376 Posts
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Infernal_dream
United States2359 Posts
On September 10 2012 12:37 Harbinger631 wrote: The Warhound should have a jump jet upgrade from the factory that allows them to slowly accelarate into the air and melee air units. Should have an upgrade to just blow up and be removed from the game due to the fact that it's a move and removes the best part of tvt from the game which is siege tank standoffs. Which leads to the only air battles we ever see, and are amazing to watch. | ||
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Slago
Canada726 Posts
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MattBarry
United States4006 Posts
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mucker
United States1120 Posts
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Astynax
Canada3 Posts
My solution here: http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/6521293507 on the blizz forums. Initially made an account to spread the thought but 3 day trial prevents me from posting. Swap role of Thor & Warhound instead Current state Thors: Anti air for terran mech primarily vs muta and also a front line unit to soak up damage Warhounds: Designed to be a siegebreaker - anti mech but ends up being a major anti protoss However, currently it is also being used very effectively as a reaver and effective base D due to speed Suggestion Thor: In WoL, thors arent used against protoss because theyre too slow, expensive and countered by immortals & chargelot. They are used vs zerg and sometimes in TvT for anti viking or to soak up damage against tank lines. If blizz wanted an anti siegeline unit, this should be it. It takes a lot of tank fire and isnt splashed much due to its' size, so a small group of would be capable of breaking siege lines if they were given haywire that HOTS warhounds have now. It would again be limited by cost, size and slow movement, which would make it not seen vs Protoss and would be difficult to mass unlike the warhound. Take away its' anti air ability and it will be used for purely anti ground mech vs terran. It would still do ok against zerg with the normal auto attack, be used vs T against other mech (also effective vs warhounds) but too slow and expensive to make a large number of to be the primary army. An ability such as haywire SHOULD NOT be able to be massed Warhound: Give the warhound the ability to shoot air but due to the lower cost than thors either take away the splash or reduce the anti air damage significantly thus making the warhound the AA for mech play. Given their current speed, it is better suited to fend off fast moving mutas or drops for which mech is vulnerable. It would also still do sufficient damage against ground units and is easily massable. With the proposed changes, the matchups would be affected as follows Against T: Warhounds to act as the anti air and the main fodder in a mech army. Thors could be moved in or medivac dropped to haywire tanks if an opening is left or to flank effectively thus requiring positioning and careful use of the haywire ability to break siege lines rather than a simple A move warhounds. It would also make players have to balance between expensive, high dps units like tanks & thors with fodder units like marine, hellion and warhound rather than just massing warhounds. A hard counter to a unit should not be more of that unit (see warhound vs warhound…). As such, if a lot of thors are made marine, marauder should be able to shred it so a balance has to be made in mech with tanks and hellions vs MM. Warhounds would just be the mech AA and fast response to drops. Against Z: AA against muta would be still achieved using warhounds. Thors would likely not be made, therefore matchup stays similar to how it is currently. Furthermore, siegeline breakers would remain to be broodlords as it is currently, in addition to burrow charge ultra or swarmhost. Also due to the viper cloud, it would be easy to blind the thors and have mutas mop up ALL of the mech if thors were left as the primarly mech AA. However, with more warhounds out on the field it would be harder to just hard counter mech with 1 spell on and a muta flock. This would also be augmented by the fact that thors are SLOW, which would make it difficult to move out of an AOE spell that prevents them from shooting air. Mutas should remain as harass units, not the hard counter to mech along w the viper. Z has a lot of options to break siege lines already. Against P: No more massable haywire and makes thors slightly more viable due to their heavy anti mech ability so well placed thors would do significant damage to a deathball (which blizz wants to go away from). Mech will be extremely viable due to battle hellions vs zealot; tanks vs armored; haywire vs immortals and would take micro to make sure each units is attacking the right thing to pick apart a deathball, while a deathball would still do heavy damage, thus making this matchup a huge slugfest rather then deathball "A" moving over mech in WoL or warhounds+hellion "A" moving over deathball in HOTS. Taking away haywire from wahounds would prevent mech as anti everything protoss as it is right now. New protoss units have no effect Also to note that terran ground AA is limited to marines. While probably the best AA in the game, late game marines have too low of HP which very die fast thus causing the problem of T having a weak end game. They need marines, but marines don't fare as well late game as the end game units of other races. For a stronger late game T, they can eventually replace marines with warhounds. Also for ground AA Protoss: stalker, archon, sentry Zerg: queen, hydra, infested terran Terran: marine, autoturret, thor Turrets are so rarely seen and marines end up being the main AA for terran, yet are an inflated food supply much like a zerg army maxed on roaches seem like a high food count army, but do much less than you would expect. Swap out the thor in that list and put warhound in and you have a better late game ground AA that doesnt die in 1 hit and isnt dreadfully slow EDIT: Reader solutions from the change added here so more people will see it DeadWombat The Thor was originally billed to be a "tip of the spear" unit anyway, which is ironically what the Warhound is doing now. Giving the Thor the Haywire would really let it fulfill the intended function that it originally had. I am rather certain no one would miss the Thor's 250mm cannons, either. Fun idea but it was never really able to be utilized that well. So if the Thor loses the cannons (and its energy), that would leave High Templar with one less thing to counter as well, making Thors even MORE viable against protoss. Laowai Protoss and Terran players with the skill to outposition the thor user and target-fire it down before it can do much damage will force thor users in higher leagues to turn off autocast and spend their haywire missiles on high-priority units, like siege tanks or colossi. This micro would not be required at a lower level, but would add depth to the game... for better players than me, anyway. Another issue it would fix is one that was actually brought up in the early design stages of HotS, and the reason the warhound was conceptualized in the first place: Thors are pretty bad against mutalisks. Two warhounds are less magic-boxable than one thor, on top of being smaller and more mobile. Their speed would also make them very useful against the new-and-improved air harass from Protoss, leading to small-army map control battles away from the deathball. Tl;dr: Give thors haywire, warhounds anti air | ||
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blug
Australia623 Posts
If they keep the warhound, I think it should just as a soaker for the siege tanks. Give it really low damage but make it's survivability really good (It's actually probably good as it is) | ||
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MoonCricket
222 Posts
On September 10 2012 01:31 Dagan159 wrote: Thor cant seige break with their movement speed. The warhound needs to be fast to break seiege lines. WIth the BC and raven upgrades, I feel like sky terran is gonna be very prevelant in HotS Just let Thors be able to move and shoot at the same time then? It's the only Massive unit out of the Collosus, Ultralisk, Thor triad that doesn't have a movement based ability, i.e. Colossus can cliff walk, Ultralisks can't be snared or rooted and Thors can move and shoot at the same time, wahlah Siege Breaker unit? | ||
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Tppz!
Germany1449 Posts
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pdd
Australia9933 Posts
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bhfberserk
Canada390 Posts
On September 11 2012 17:13 MoonCricket wrote: Just let Thors be able to move and shoot at the same time then? It's the only Massive unit out of the Collosus, Ultralisk, Thor triad that doesn't have a movement based ability, i.e. Colossus can cliff walk, Ultralisks can't be snared or rooted and Thors can move and shoot at the same time, wahlah Siege Breaker unit? Just the thor attack normally but the 250mm can be fire as thor move. Like a "Siege-break" mode. I am trying to do something similar in the sc2 editor but I suck at it. It would be awesome if someone out there can try it!  I am reminded how awesome 250mm thor look! It is so badass. Imagine that breaking lines of siege tanks! | ||
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Garmer
1286 Posts
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Seigifried
United States60 Posts
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wcr.4fun
Belgium686 Posts
On September 23 2012 09:00 Seigifried wrote: Its because Warhound is OP!!!!! ok this idiot is spamming to get 500 posts... bumping all these 'older' topics. | ||
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Svizcy
Slovenia300 Posts
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SuperYo1000
United States880 Posts
On September 23 2012 15:03 Svizcy wrote: I think same way as OP. Remmoving the unit all together was wrong. They should make him cost more suply or whatnot. I'm not balance expert, but it's always better to tune the unit down a bit than remove it altogether. it does seem a little harsh to remove it, you never know what was going to happen or what will still happen. Beta is still going strong so I definatley could see it coming back down the road or something | ||
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