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HOTS - Scan radius displayed to enemy

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 HotS
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TheFish7
Profile Blog Joined February 2012
United States2824 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-09-07 00:45:52
September 06 2012 02:19 GMT
#1
Hello TL, My apologies if this is too minor for a thread or if there already is a thread on this feature.

I'll keep it short and sweet. In the HOTS beta, I watched WhiteRa warping in DTs to harass qxc's mineral line just now. As you can see in the screenshot below, WhiteRa was able to see the radius of qxc's scans. This directly contributed to him warping in his next DT just outside the radius of the last scan, possibly saving this DT.

It also will more or less let you know what tech structures have been scanned, and allow cloaked units to get away from scans slightly more easily for those players who are not super gosu at knowing where the range of the scan ends. Like I said, its pretty minor, but there are a ton of these minor "features" in HOTS.

[image loading]


On September 07 2012 05:16 Grumbels wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 07 2012 04:53 SgtCoDFish wrote:
On September 07 2012 04:39 Moonsalt wrote:
On September 06 2012 11:38 dabom88 wrote:
You can't see how far the detection radius is for Missile Turrets, Spore Crawlers, Photon Cannons, Ravens, Overseers, or Observers.

Why do you get to see the detection radius for scans?

I totally agree.


1) You can have many of these detectors, meaning there could be a lot of ugly lines everywhere, and they don't disappear after a set amount of time like scans do.

2) Scan is a scouting tool as well as a detector, and that's where this is most important. You know if your cloaked unit is detected (by scan or other detector) because things start shooting it. That's a normal interaction between units and is a gameplay thing. The scan texture not being as big as the sight given is a graphical/ui issue that adds uncertainty into the game.

3) Uncertainty isn't skill. The skill in reacting to a scan of your important tech structure comes from the decision of whether or not changing your tech would be wise and in knowing your opponent's likely reactions to what he saw. If you don't know if he saw it or not, it's a coinflippy clusterfuck.

Starcraft thrives on vagueness. It's one of the reasons why Brood War was superior to Wings of Liberty, it's because people begged long and hard to make the game more about 'strategy', so all the really difficult mechanics were addressed. Heart of the Swarm simply takes this one step further, information is more clearly defined, easier to understand and utilize. From now on you do not have to get a feel for saturation numbers of for detection radius anymore. Blizzard now provides this information as input for your strategy.

The problem is that strategy is rather boring. If you look at your typical game, then honestly most players play the same popular builds over and over again, since it's so easy to copy what successful players are doing. A lot of match-ups are quite trivial, especially zerg often 'just' has to turtle into brood lords and all the fuzzy feelings-based aspects to this game that allow players with superior game sense to do well are one by one eliminated just so that eventually everyone can execute the same rote strategy at the same level. I honestly think it's bizarre the community is still so obsessed with strategy, it's as if so many have so little respect for all the beauty inherent to paying attention to all the small little details and utilizing them correctly. There is so much more to this game than just strategy and unit control, it really is so much about a certain mystique where frequently you have no solid information and have to depend on visual processing or pattern recognition (i.e. game sense or 'feel'). Making everything clear and streamlined honestly won't make the game any more fun, it will just allow you to better execute your 2 base timing attacks without being bothered by the fact you have little experience with the game and lack essential cognitive skills.

Imagine if during the development of DOTA2 Valve had decided that the game really needed to be about picking hero compositions, item choices and lane divisions. They could remove all skill-intensive abilities of the game (last kills, denying, aimed shots) so that it would again be more about strategy, all to reward the smarter player. But why is someone with knowledge and analytical skills superior to someone with the superior cognitive abilities required to excel at unit control and economy management?


Well said.
~ ~ <°)))><~ ~ ~
phodacbiet
Profile Joined August 2010
United States1740 Posts
September 06 2012 02:20 GMT
#2
Also tumors are nerfed a bit because of the animation. Before it was instant now it takes a bit longer to go down. Not huge but still a minor nerf.
Brutaxilos
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
United States2630 Posts
September 06 2012 02:22 GMT
#3
I actually like this quite a lot. There really is no reason not to be able to tell how far the scan can see. But I feel like the decals forming the circle are a little ugly.
Jangbi favorite player. Forever~ CJ herO the King of IEM. BOMBERRRRRRRR. Sexy Boy Rogue. soO #1! Oliveira China Represent!
FataLe
Profile Joined November 2010
New Zealand4512 Posts
September 06 2012 02:22 GMT
#4
I'm a Protoss player and I hate this change. It didn't need to happen and it's just one more thing to add to the easierness? of the game.

hi. big fan.
GenesisX
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
Canada4267 Posts
September 06 2012 02:24 GMT
#5
This is one of the few changes that I like (as opposed to auto mine, worker count, and pylon warp in change. Those are absolute shit!) This change should actually add to the spectator value and create more suspense. Before it was really hard to tell whether or not something was actually scanned or not, and now you can clearly see it. Should create for some interesting scenarios when a tech structure is just barely out of scan range or cloak units barely escape scan radius too
133 221 333 123 111
Suc
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
Australia1569 Posts
September 06 2012 02:24 GMT
#6
I like the change. Before there was a degree of guessing whether the scan saw your stuff or not, now you know for sure.
theHubble
Profile Joined February 2012
United States30 Posts
September 06 2012 02:26 GMT
#7
Yea i think this is really dumb.. i mean we're lucky enough to see the big circle that tells theres a scan but now they have to go ahead and tell us EXACTLY how far they can see? ... why?
NeMeSiS3
Profile Blog Joined February 2012
Canada2972 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-09-06 02:26:51
September 06 2012 02:26 GMT
#8
how fucking stupid, it doesn't add anything to spectators becasue you simply can see what they saw via the fog after it finished scanning... This removes "suspsense" from the game "DID HE SEE THE DARK SHRINE, OMG OMG OMG" while the scans going, and the protoss gets to go "HOLY SHIT DID HE SEE MY DT" now it's "oh he didn't see it, damn... *snaps fingers*"

woohoo lets trash this game, the games not suppose to be "I see everything, I do everything, I get everything, the game helps me with everything" ...
FoTG fighting!
Xanbatou
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
United States805 Posts
September 06 2012 02:26 GMT
#9
Yeah, I think this is actually a good change. It's pretty important to know what your opponent has seen with a scan.
Sanguinarius
Profile Joined January 2010
United States3427 Posts
September 06 2012 02:27 GMT
#10
From a watching games point of view. I love this change. Its always hard to know what the range is on a scan when watching streams/casts.
Your strength is just an accident arising from the weakness of others -Heart of Darkness
sour_eraser
Profile Joined March 2011
Canada932 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-09-06 02:31:46
September 06 2012 02:31 GMT
#11
I dont like this change as Terran point of view. Like during ingame when I scan and saw a little tip of dark shrine I would immediately build turret to protect my base, now Toss can fuck that and expand while I turtle waiting for DT to come out -.-
"What's the f*cking point of censoring a letter if everyone and their mother knows what it stands for.... F*cking morons"
Sbuiko
Profile Joined April 2011
Switzerland56 Posts
September 06 2012 02:31 GMT
#12
I like it. It's closer to how it worked in BW too. Don't like the line thingy tho. Maybe instead of that dashed line, they could just extend the existing scan circle animation to a much bigger radius, while reducing it's opaqueness a bit. It would look less artificial that way.
Deleted User 135096
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
3624 Posts
September 06 2012 02:32 GMT
#13
If this were a spectator only thing I could get behind it, but not as a player...
Administrator
Infernal_dream
Profile Joined September 2011
United States2359 Posts
September 06 2012 02:33 GMT
#14
I like it. If blizzard just made the sweeping animation as big as the area that the terran was actually seeing it'd be nice too. It's stupid to have an animation that's smaller than what he's actually seeing.
acrimoneyius
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
United States983 Posts
September 06 2012 02:34 GMT
#15
People are driving me crazy with their "it makes the game easier" mantra. This is just good for graphical consistency. I'd prefer Blizzard make the game harder in other areas (units with more micro potential)
Jumbled
Profile Joined September 2010
1543 Posts
September 06 2012 02:35 GMT
#16
On September 06 2012 11:33 Infernal_dream wrote:
I like it. If blizzard just made the sweeping animation as big as the area that the terran was actually seeing it'd be nice too. It's stupid to have an animation that's smaller than what he's actually seeing.

A bigger problem is the effect 3D has on it. Because the animation is above the ground the scan swirl doesn't appear to be over the centre of the area revealed.
dabom88
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
United States3483 Posts
September 06 2012 02:38 GMT
#17
You can't see how far the detection radius is for Missile Turrets, Spore Crawlers, Photon Cannons, Ravens, Overseers, or Observers.

Why do you get to see the detection radius for scans?
You should not have to pay to watch the GSL, Proleague, or OSL at a reasonable time. That is not "fine" and it's BS to say otherwise. My sig since 2011. http://www.youtube.com/user/dabom88
Scufo
Profile Joined October 2010
United States136 Posts
September 06 2012 02:39 GMT
#18
I liked the uncertainty of the old scan.

When an Overlord enters your base and you kill it just in time that it doesn't see your stuff, there's a degree of uncertainty. Did it see or not? I don't see why scan can't be that way too. It's already a choice between a MULE and Scan, it SHOULD be powerful.
Whatson
Profile Blog Joined January 2012
United States5357 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-09-06 02:40:38
September 06 2012 02:40 GMT
#19
This ruins the suspense of a game. There's lots of times when I'm playing TvT or PvT where I'll hide crucial tech in a corner of my base and then my opponent scans, and I have to quickly decide whether he scouted this or not. In the same way, this also applies to my opponents going into panic mode for me. There are plenty of times where a Terran will scan, and then all the caster needs to do is press either 1 or 2 to figure out if he saw the tech or not.
Same thing with ovies, and sniped observers.
¯\_(シ)_/¯
Xanbatou
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
United States805 Posts
September 06 2012 02:40 GMT
#20
On September 06 2012 11:38 dabom88 wrote:
You can't see how far the detection radius is for Missile Turrets, Spore Crawlers, Photon Cannons, Ravens, Overseers, or Observers.

Why do you get to see the detection radius for scans?


Because it's pretty obvious when your cloaked unit gets attacked in range of a detector. It's not so obvious if you should abandon your strategy when the scan caught the edge and you are not sure if they saw whatever it was you are trying to hide.
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