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On February 19 2012 18:40 phodacbiet wrote:
The writer for the single player campaign obviously did not play bw. At the end of Broodwar, Raynor said the next time he sees kerrigan he will kill her, now 10 years later (is that time right? not sure), all he can think about is boning her
You know, I'm not sure there is a single reference to Brood War in any of the 29 missions. Shakuras isn't mentionned, Raszagal's only appearance is in one of the ZeratulWhat sounds. The UED is only mentionned in the description of the Spartan Company, so not in any cutscene or level. And even when Zeratul spots an hybrid, he doesn't remember that Duran was the one creating them...
You could go straight from the death of the Overmind to WoL, the only puzzling element would be the absence of general Duke. In fact, you would understand the story better: Raynor loving Kerrigan, her split personnality and the Dominion having enough forces to land on Char make more sense after the original game than after Brood War ><
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They wanted to make sure SC2 would have the worst single player possible so their tried removing all the awesome characters (as much as possible), not building up any new characters through the storyline and having the worse storyline ever. 
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On February 19 2012 20:48 Telenil wrote:Show nested quote +On February 19 2012 18:40 phodacbiet wrote:
The writer for the single player campaign obviously did not play bw. At the end of Broodwar, Raynor said the next time he sees kerrigan he will kill her, now 10 years later (is that time right? not sure), all he can think about is boning her You know, I'm not sure there is a single reference to Brood War in any of the 29 missions. Shakuras isn't mentionned, Raszagal's only appearance is in one of the ZeratulWhat sounds. The UED is only mentionned in the description of the Spartan Company, so not in any cutscene or level. And even when Zeratul spots an hybrid, he doesn't remember that Duran was the one creating them... You could go straight from the death of the Overmind to WoL, the only puzzling element would be the absence of general Duke. In fact, you would understand the story better: Raynor loving Kerrigan, her split personnality and the Dominion having enough forces to land on Char make more sense after the original game than after Brood War ><
okay, what happened during BW that was important?
the protoss defended Aiur from the zerg
the UED apeared, took over some space and the overmind then lost all the territory they gained
Kerrigan became the one leader of the Swarm
everything was pretty self contained, the only real big thing that happened was during a secret mission not everyone saw
and as for Zeratuls words, it depends how you view them, you could see him as who was literally creating them which would be Duran, or you could see it as Zeratul wondering who Durans MASTER was, Duran isnt the one making the Hybrids he jsut runs the machines its Durans master who is creating the hybrids
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![[image loading]](http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft/images2/3/36/Fenix-fnatic.png)
...ohhhh, that's not what you meant....
But seriously, he should be in the story. Kinda weird how he's out all of the sudden. Legacy of the Void?
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On February 20 2012 02:21 Forikorder wrote:Show nested quote +On February 19 2012 20:48 Telenil wrote:On February 19 2012 18:40 phodacbiet wrote:
The writer for the single player campaign obviously did not play bw. At the end of Broodwar, Raynor said the next time he sees kerrigan he will kill her, now 10 years later (is that time right? not sure), all he can think about is boning her You know, I'm not sure there is a single reference to Brood War in any of the 29 missions. Shakuras isn't mentionned, Raszagal's only appearance is in one of the ZeratulWhat sounds. The UED is only mentionned in the description of the Spartan Company, so not in any cutscene or level. And even when Zeratul spots an hybrid, he doesn't remember that Duran was the one creating them... You could go straight from the death of the Overmind to WoL, the only puzzling element would be the absence of general Duke. In fact, you would understand the story better: Raynor loving Kerrigan, her split personnality and the Dominion having enough forces to land on Char make more sense after the original game than after Brood War >< okay, what happened during BW that was important? the protoss defended Aiur from the zerg the UED apeared, took over some space and the overmind then lost all the territory they gained Kerrigan became the one leader of the Swarm everything was pretty self contained, the only real big thing that happened was during a secret mission not everyone saw and as for Zeratuls words, it depends how you view them, you could see him as who was literally creating them which would be Duran, or you could see it as Zeratul wondering who Durans MASTER was, Duran isnt the one making the Hybrids he jsut runs the machines its Durans master who is creating the hybrids
Raynor threatening to kill Kerrigan was what I thought to be a pivotal part of Brood War. Too bad he became a fallen angel and decided to forget the whole business.
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On February 20 2012 02:45 IntoTheheart wrote:Show nested quote +On February 20 2012 02:21 Forikorder wrote:On February 19 2012 20:48 Telenil wrote:On February 19 2012 18:40 phodacbiet wrote:
The writer for the single player campaign obviously did not play bw. At the end of Broodwar, Raynor said the next time he sees kerrigan he will kill her, now 10 years later (is that time right? not sure), all he can think about is boning her You know, I'm not sure there is a single reference to Brood War in any of the 29 missions. Shakuras isn't mentionned, Raszagal's only appearance is in one of the ZeratulWhat sounds. The UED is only mentionned in the description of the Spartan Company, so not in any cutscene or level. And even when Zeratul spots an hybrid, he doesn't remember that Duran was the one creating them... You could go straight from the death of the Overmind to WoL, the only puzzling element would be the absence of general Duke. In fact, you would understand the story better: Raynor loving Kerrigan, her split personnality and the Dominion having enough forces to land on Char make more sense after the original game than after Brood War >< okay, what happened during BW that was important? the protoss defended Aiur from the zerg the UED apeared, took over some space and the overmind then lost all the territory they gained Kerrigan became the one leader of the Swarm everything was pretty self contained, the only real big thing that happened was during a secret mission not everyone saw and as for Zeratuls words, it depends how you view them, you could see him as who was literally creating them which would be Duran, or you could see it as Zeratul wondering who Durans MASTER was, Duran isnt the one making the Hybrids he jsut runs the machines its Durans master who is creating the hybrids Raynor threatening to kill Kerrigan was what I thought to be a pivotal part of Brood War. Too bad he became a fallen angel and decided to forget the whole business.
its been several years in which Kerrigan spent the entire time having a slumber party on Char
its not like she was right in his face the entire time killing people, he had years for the sudden angry outburst to dull
people make it sound like he made some blood oath to a forgotten god he got angry and yelled, he calmed down
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On February 20 2012 02:57 Forikorder wrote:Show nested quote +On February 20 2012 02:45 IntoTheheart wrote:On February 20 2012 02:21 Forikorder wrote:On February 19 2012 20:48 Telenil wrote:On February 19 2012 18:40 phodacbiet wrote:
The writer for the single player campaign obviously did not play bw. At the end of Broodwar, Raynor said the next time he sees kerrigan he will kill her, now 10 years later (is that time right? not sure), all he can think about is boning her You know, I'm not sure there is a single reference to Brood War in any of the 29 missions. Shakuras isn't mentionned, Raszagal's only appearance is in one of the ZeratulWhat sounds. The UED is only mentionned in the description of the Spartan Company, so not in any cutscene or level. And even when Zeratul spots an hybrid, he doesn't remember that Duran was the one creating them... You could go straight from the death of the Overmind to WoL, the only puzzling element would be the absence of general Duke. In fact, you would understand the story better: Raynor loving Kerrigan, her split personnality and the Dominion having enough forces to land on Char make more sense after the original game than after Brood War >< okay, what happened during BW that was important? the protoss defended Aiur from the zerg the UED apeared, took over some space and the overmind then lost all the territory they gained Kerrigan became the one leader of the Swarm everything was pretty self contained, the only real big thing that happened was during a secret mission not everyone saw and as for Zeratuls words, it depends how you view them, you could see him as who was literally creating them which would be Duran, or you could see it as Zeratul wondering who Durans MASTER was, Duran isnt the one making the Hybrids he jsut runs the machines its Durans master who is creating the hybrids Raynor threatening to kill Kerrigan was what I thought to be a pivotal part of Brood War. Too bad he became a fallen angel and decided to forget the whole business. its been several years in which Kerrigan spent the entire time having a slumber party on Char its not like she was right in his face the entire time killing people, he had years for the sudden angry outburst to dull people make it sound like he made some blood oath to a forgotten god he got angry and yelled, he calmed down
It was still a promise that he'd kill her. I wonder where that characterization went.
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On February 20 2012 02:21 Forikorder wrote:
okay, what happened during BW that was important?
the protoss defended Aiur from the zerg
the UED apeared, took over some space and the overmind then lost all the territory they gained
Kerrigan became the one leader of the Swarm
everything was pretty self contained, the only real big thing that happened was during a secret mission not everyone saw
and as for Zeratuls words, it depends how you view them, you could see him as who was literally creating them which would be Duran, or you could see it as Zeratul wondering who Durans MASTER was, Duran isnt the one making the Hybrids he jsut runs the machines its Durans master who is creating the hybrids What important happened? The protoss fled to Shakuras, re-united with their long-exiled brethren, a new Overmind grew on Char, a giant fleet conquered the entire Dominion by force, Arcturus was forced to ally with the zerg to retake its throne, then said zerg invaded Khoral and butchered the Dominion forces stationned there.
I do expect these events to have some sort of impact on the present world.
I guess you can end up with a consistent story if you take the writers' work and correct it, but as far as WoL's actual dialogs are concerned, I quote Zeratul and Duran from Brood War: "This grand endeavour is quite beyond Kerrigan's narrow understanding. -Do you have any conception of what you have created here? -Of course I do."
So when Zeratul wonders, quote again, "who created this atrocity?", the correct answer is "Duran, he told you in 1998".
On February 20 2012 02:57 Forikorder wrote:
its been several years in which Kerrigan spent the entire time having a slumber party on Char
its not like she was right in his face the entire time killing people, he had years for the sudden angry outburst to dull
people make it sound like he made some blood oath to a forgotten god he got angry and yelled, he calmed down Seriously, if your ex-girlfriend told your friends to trust her, then muredered them and laughed at your face, your "sudden angry outburst" would "dull" because you didn't see her for 3-4 years?
Given how Fenix's force was obliterated on Khoral, Raynor probably lost more friends to Kerrigan's forces than to Arcturus'.
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On February 20 2012 02:21 Forikorder wrote:Show nested quote +On February 19 2012 20:48 Telenil wrote:On February 19 2012 18:40 phodacbiet wrote:
The writer for the single player campaign obviously did not play bw. At the end of Broodwar, Raynor said the next time he sees kerrigan he will kill her, now 10 years later (is that time right? not sure), all he can think about is boning her You know, I'm not sure there is a single reference to Brood War in any of the 29 missions. Shakuras isn't mentionned, Raszagal's only appearance is in one of the ZeratulWhat sounds. The UED is only mentionned in the description of the Spartan Company, so not in any cutscene or level. And even when Zeratul spots an hybrid, he doesn't remember that Duran was the one creating them... You could go straight from the death of the Overmind to WoL, the only puzzling element would be the absence of general Duke. In fact, you would understand the story better: Raynor loving Kerrigan, her split personnality and the Dominion having enough forces to land on Char make more sense after the original game than after Brood War >< okay, what happened during BW that was important? the protoss defended Aiur from the zerg the UED apeared, took over some space and the overmind then lost all the territory they gained Kerrigan became the one leader of the Swarm everything was pretty self contained, the only real big thing that happened was during a secret mission not everyone saw and as for Zeratuls words, it depends how you view them, you could see him as who was literally creating them which would be Duran, or you could see it as Zeratul wondering who Durans MASTER was, Duran isnt the one making the Hybrids he jsut runs the machines its Durans master who is creating the hybrids
Shakuras, not Aiur.
And the big, important take-away from Brood War? Not Duran and the hybrids. Not terran politics or the protoss reunification. Not even zerg dominance.
The most important part of Brood War was this: Kerrigan is beyond redemption.
That's it. That was the point. That was the core of the whole damn story. No matter what we or Zeratul or Raynor wanted, Kerrigan was irredeemable. She was the enemy, the end. But that's gone now.
And hey, the protoss reunification WAS a big deal, too. The UED stuff didn't matter much, I'll admit.
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On February 20 2012 03:48 Tamburlaine wrote:Show nested quote +On February 20 2012 02:21 Forikorder wrote:On February 19 2012 20:48 Telenil wrote:On February 19 2012 18:40 phodacbiet wrote:
The writer for the single player campaign obviously did not play bw. At the end of Broodwar, Raynor said the next time he sees kerrigan he will kill her, now 10 years later (is that time right? not sure), all he can think about is boning her You know, I'm not sure there is a single reference to Brood War in any of the 29 missions. Shakuras isn't mentionned, Raszagal's only appearance is in one of the ZeratulWhat sounds. The UED is only mentionned in the description of the Spartan Company, so not in any cutscene or level. And even when Zeratul spots an hybrid, he doesn't remember that Duran was the one creating them... You could go straight from the death of the Overmind to WoL, the only puzzling element would be the absence of general Duke. In fact, you would understand the story better: Raynor loving Kerrigan, her split personnality and the Dominion having enough forces to land on Char make more sense after the original game than after Brood War >< okay, what happened during BW that was important? the protoss defended Aiur from the zerg the UED apeared, took over some space and the overmind then lost all the territory they gained Kerrigan became the one leader of the Swarm everything was pretty self contained, the only real big thing that happened was during a secret mission not everyone saw and as for Zeratuls words, it depends how you view them, you could see him as who was literally creating them which would be Duran, or you could see it as Zeratul wondering who Durans MASTER was, Duran isnt the one making the Hybrids he jsut runs the machines its Durans master who is creating the hybrids Shakuras, not Aiur. And the big, important take-away from Brood War? Not Duran and the hybrids. Not terran politics or the protoss reunification. Not even zerg dominance. The most important part of Brood War was this: Kerrigan is beyond redemption. That's it. That was the point. That was the core of the whole damn story. No matter what we or Zeratul or Raynor wanted, Kerrigan was irredeemable. She was the enemy, the end. But that's gone now. And hey, the protoss reunification WAS a big deal, too. The UED stuff didn't matter much, I'll admit.
Well I mean, she DID tell the UED to go back home but then killed all of them...
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On February 18 2012 01:58 Xenomorph wrote:
Yeah look at BW I know they love to retcon but Raynor vowed to kill Kerrigan for killing Fenix. There was such raw passion behind that storyline of alien races coming together for the greater good and Fenix was a main part of that. Fenix is also the first protoss hero you control and generally know about.
Yes, turning WoL into a love story meant they had to axe most of the plot from the previous game. The protoss in SC2 don't even have anything to do with the protoss in SC1 (excepting the Zeratul missions). They are either mindless generic bad guys like the religious cult folk you have to kill or are under the command of Selendis, who at least acknowledges Raynor's existence before you fight them.
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It was still a promise that he'd kill her. I wonder where that characterization went.
id hardly call that a promise, a display of rage sure, but not a promise like its ERagon and hes making a vow in the ancient language
and he was working on killing her, until he found a way to revert her to whom she was, his anger at losing fenix would only be eclipsed by his anger at himself for allowing her to be abandoned in the first place so obviously saving her gets more priority then avenging the dead
What important happened? The protoss fled to Shakuras, re-united with their long-exiled brethren, a new Overmind grew on Char, a giant fleet conquered the entire Dominion by force, Arcturus was forced to ally with the zerg to retake its throne, then said zerg invaded Khoral and butchered the Dominion forces stationned there.
I do expect these events to have some sort of impact on the present world.
no none of that is important, Acturus lsot and regained his throne
Kerrigan lost and regained the swarm
the UED conquered then lsot territory
Shakuras came under attack and was repelled
none of which had alsting effects on the SC universe
I guess you can end up with a consistent story if you take the writers' work and correct it, but as far as WoL's actual dialogs are concerned, I quote Zeratul and Duran from Brood War: "This grand endeavour is quite beyond Kerrigan's narrow understanding. -Do you have any conception of what you have created here? -Of course I do."
So when Zeratul wonders, quote again, "who created this atrocity?", the correct answer is "Duran, he told you in 1998".
did you forget that Duran stated he was a servant to a much greater power? Duran did not create them his mysterious master did
Seriously, if your ex-girlfriend told your friends to trust her, then muredered them and laughed at your face, your "sudden angry outburst" would "dull" because you didn't see her for 3-4 years?
Given how Fenix's force was obliterated on Khoral, Raynor probably lost more friends to Kerrigan's forces than to Arcturus'
pf course the anger would dull, anger isnt a very lasting emotion when you spend several years thinking about the past and drinking yourself into a stupour
The most important part of Brood War was this: Kerrigan is beyond redemption.
only if unlike Raynor you see the Queen of Blades as the rue personality of Sarah Kerrigan, if you see the Queen of Blades as a secondary persona forced on her by the transmogrification then you wouldnt see it as Kerrigan being beyond redemption youd see it as "the queen of blades persona isnt removable"
Well I mean, she DID tell the UED to go back home but then killed all of them...
you make it sound like she promised to let them live, she jsut told them shed give them a head start
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On February 20 2012 05:01 Forikorder wrote:Show nested quote +The most important part of Brood War was this: Kerrigan is beyond redemption. only if unlike Raynor you see the Queen of Blades as the rue personality of Sarah Kerrigan, if you see the Queen of Blades as a secondary persona forced on her by the transmogrification then you wouldnt see it as Kerrigan being beyond redemption youd see it as "the queen of blades persona isnt removable"
I'm trying, believe me, but it's... a little hard to make out exactly what you're saying.
As far as I can tell, you're trying to argue that there was confusion as to whether or not Kerrigan was inherently and irreversably evil. If that isn't the case, then... well, please clarify. But if it is? You're right. That was left totally open.
At the end of Vanilla SC1.
The point of Brood War was that one of those perspectives was wrong. It was false. That was the point. That was the purpose. I mean, protoss reunification and the reveal of Duran and the hybrids, yeah, but mostly that. The point of Brood War was that there is no room for "perspective" on Kerrigan. There is no, "Well, that's not how Raynor saw it...". That was pre-Brood War. That died with Aldaris, Raszagal, Duke, and Fenix.
And then magic, because fuck narrative consistency.
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On February 20 2012 05:24 Tamburlaine wrote:Show nested quote +On February 20 2012 05:01 Forikorder wrote:The most important part of Brood War was this: Kerrigan is beyond redemption. only if unlike Raynor you see the Queen of Blades as the rue personality of Sarah Kerrigan, if you see the Queen of Blades as a secondary persona forced on her by the transmogrification then you wouldnt see it as Kerrigan being beyond redemption youd see it as "the queen of blades persona isnt removable" I'm trying, believe me, but it's... a little hard to make out exactly what you're saying. As far as I can tell, you're trying to argue that there was confusion as to whether or not Kerrigan was inherently and irreversably evil. If that isn't the case, then... well, please clarify. But if it is? You're right. That was left totally open. At the end of Vanilla SC1. The point of Brood War was that one of those perspectives was wrong. It was false. That was the point. That was the purpose. I mean, protoss reunification and the reveal of Duran and the hybrids, yeah, but mostly that. The point of Brood War was that there is no room for "perspective" on Kerrigan. There is no, "Well, that's not how Raynor saw it...". That was pre-Brood War. That died with Aldaris, Raszagal, Duke, and Fenix. And then magic, because fuck narrative consistency.
it doesnt matter if everyone else in the universe and out of the universe believes 100%that the queen of blades is how kerrigan really is
the point is Raynor doesnt think that, hes always believed that if it wsnt for Zerg brainwashing shed still be the kind caring self sacrificing chick he fell in love with
a strong indicator of this is his dealing with Hanson and his line "your infested, your dead already" which means he doesnt consider an infested terran as a terran there jsut a Zerg and whoever they were before died when they got infested
when he learned about the Artifact he discovered a way to essentially bring Sarah Kerrigan back to life and he took his chance
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On February 20 2012 05:29 Forikorder wrote:Show nested quote +On February 20 2012 05:24 Tamburlaine wrote:On February 20 2012 05:01 Forikorder wrote:The most important part of Brood War was this: Kerrigan is beyond redemption. only if unlike Raynor you see the Queen of Blades as the rue personality of Sarah Kerrigan, if you see the Queen of Blades as a secondary persona forced on her by the transmogrification then you wouldnt see it as Kerrigan being beyond redemption youd see it as "the queen of blades persona isnt removable" I'm trying, believe me, but it's... a little hard to make out exactly what you're saying. As far as I can tell, you're trying to argue that there was confusion as to whether or not Kerrigan was inherently and irreversably evil. If that isn't the case, then... well, please clarify. But if it is? You're right. That was left totally open. At the end of Vanilla SC1. The point of Brood War was that one of those perspectives was wrong. It was false. That was the point. That was the purpose. I mean, protoss reunification and the reveal of Duran and the hybrids, yeah, but mostly that. The point of Brood War was that there is no room for "perspective" on Kerrigan. There is no, "Well, that's not how Raynor saw it...". That was pre-Brood War. That died with Aldaris, Raszagal, Duke, and Fenix. And then magic, because fuck narrative consistency. it doesnt matter if everyone else in the universe and out of the universe believes 100%that the queen of blades is how kerrigan really is the point is Raynor doesnt think that, hes always believed that if it wsnt for Zerg brainwashing shed still be the kind caring self sacrificing chick he fell in love with a strong indicator of this is his dealing with Hanson and his line "your infested, your dead already" which means he doesnt consider an infested terran as a terran there jsut a Zerg and whoever they were before died when they got infested when he learned about the Artifact he discovered a way to essentially bring Sarah Kerrigan back to life and he took his chance
That is in SC2, when the writing is written by a monkey with a typewriter ^^ (and that was probably one of the most cliche line ever). Did you know kerrigan and our little jimmy allied together? When Kerrigan said a new overmind was forming and that she was "good" without the overmind, Jimmy and the Protossuh helped her kill the second overmind, when that happened, she trololol and killed Fenix + most of Jimmy's friends. So what happened was this, she turned evil, Raynor still loves her, she asked for help, Raynor helped thinking he could save her, Raynor suceeded in helping her, she slaughtered most of raynor's friends, Raynor goes "wtf, next time i see you i am gonna shoot you you in the head", few years later in an alternate universe, Raynor still loves kerrigan because Fenix doesnt exist in this universe and Kerrigan never betrayed Raynor.
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On February 20 2012 05:44 phodacbiet wrote:Show nested quote +On February 20 2012 05:29 Forikorder wrote:On February 20 2012 05:24 Tamburlaine wrote:On February 20 2012 05:01 Forikorder wrote:The most important part of Brood War was this: Kerrigan is beyond redemption. only if unlike Raynor you see the Queen of Blades as the rue personality of Sarah Kerrigan, if you see the Queen of Blades as a secondary persona forced on her by the transmogrification then you wouldnt see it as Kerrigan being beyond redemption youd see it as "the queen of blades persona isnt removable" I'm trying, believe me, but it's... a little hard to make out exactly what you're saying. As far as I can tell, you're trying to argue that there was confusion as to whether or not Kerrigan was inherently and irreversably evil. If that isn't the case, then... well, please clarify. But if it is? You're right. That was left totally open. At the end of Vanilla SC1. The point of Brood War was that one of those perspectives was wrong. It was false. That was the point. That was the purpose. I mean, protoss reunification and the reveal of Duran and the hybrids, yeah, but mostly that. The point of Brood War was that there is no room for "perspective" on Kerrigan. There is no, "Well, that's not how Raynor saw it...". That was pre-Brood War. That died with Aldaris, Raszagal, Duke, and Fenix. And then magic, because fuck narrative consistency. it doesnt matter if everyone else in the universe and out of the universe believes 100%that the queen of blades is how kerrigan really is the point is Raynor doesnt think that, hes always believed that if it wsnt for Zerg brainwashing shed still be the kind caring self sacrificing chick he fell in love with a strong indicator of this is his dealing with Hanson and his line "your infested, your dead already" which means he doesnt consider an infested terran as a terran there jsut a Zerg and whoever they were before died when they got infested when he learned about the Artifact he discovered a way to essentially bring Sarah Kerrigan back to life and he took his chance That is in SC2, when the writing is written by a monkey with a typewriter ^^ (and that was probably one of the most cliche line ever). Did you know kerrigan and our little jimmy allied together? When Kerrigan said a new overmind was forming and that she was "good" without the overmind, Jimmy and the Protossuh helped her kill the second overmind, when that happened, she trololol and killed Fenix + most of Jimmy's friends. So what happened was this, she turned evil, Raynor still loves her, she asked for help, Raynor helped thinking he could save her, Raynor suceeded in helping her, she slaughtered most of raynor's friends, Raynor goes "wtf, next time i see you i am gonna shoot you you in the head", few years later in an alternate universe, Raynor still loves kerrigan because Fenix doesnt exist in this universe and Kerrigan never betrayed Raynor.
i dont get it, are you skimming my posts and jsut not reading them?
1) years passed he doesnt even hate Mengsk anymore he seems pretty burnt out by the time we meet him on Mar Sara
2) he doesnt consider Sarah Kerrigan the Queen of Blades, he thinks the artifact will bring back the girl he loves he doesnt think shell remain as the Queen of Blades
3) he enver got a chance to put a bulllet into her until he already smacked her with the Artifact
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On February 20 2012 05:01 Forikorder wrote:
it doesnt matter if everyone else in the universe and out of the universe believes 100%that the queen of blades is how kerrigan really is
the point is Raynor doesnt think that, hes always believed that if it wsnt for Zerg brainwashing shed still be the kind caring self sacrificing chick he fell in love with
a strong indicator of this is his dealing with Hanson and his line "your infested, your dead already" which means he doesnt consider an infested terran as a terran there jsut a Zerg and whoever they were before died when they got infested
when he learned about the Artifact he discovered a way to essentially bring Sarah Kerrigan back to life and he took his chance
I... what? No. Jesus. No.
Okay. One last try.
Have you ever read "Of Mice and Men"? It's a great book. Quick read, too. If you haven't read it, go out to the library and do so now. Fantastic novel, really. If you absolutely hate reading, there's a very well done movie of it, too (stars Gary Sinise and John Malkovich). Don't worry about me; I've got lots of time, and it's worth reading even if you don't care about my point.
Okay, have you read/watched it now? Okay, massive spoiler warning after this point for anyone here that hasn't read it, yeah? Stop reading this post right god damn now. Not a word farther. Just close this tab. Now.
Alright, cool. Great book/movie, right? Now think of the very end bit there, where George pulls the gun on his only friend. He's talking about the life life they'll live together and how happy they'll be and he knows it's a lie and he's trying not to cry and you're trying not to cry because you and he know what's going to happen even though you both don't want it to. And he shoots his one and only friend - a friend that trusted and relied on him for protection from the harsh world - he shoots him in the back of the head.
Now imagine someone made a sequel to Of Mice and Men, picking right up from that moment. Imagine if Lennie stood back up and tore off his own flesh, revealing that he was in fact a Terminator-esque robot. He then killed George and went on a rampage, destroying the farm first before moving on to the nearest town, only stopped when the American army caught up to him in a battle full of special effects and lens flare.
Okay, now. See those two paragraphs above? That first paragraph is Brood War. The second one is Wings of Liberty. This whole, "Well obviously Raynor always believed in her and wanted to save her!" line is like saying, "Lennie obviously never loved George. He was just toying with the fleshy creature before trying to destroy the world." The only thing that keeps these two sentences from being completely equivalent statements is that Blizzard actually decided to use the fan-fic level plot in their sequel, and nobody has yet done the same for Of Mice and Men. Were I to come in to a great deal of wealth and make such a movie (or commission such a novel), it would not de-legitimize its predecessor. The beautiful and emotional climax would not be voided by my follow-up.
So it goes with Starcraft. The only reason Brood War appears not to have mattered is because Blizzard decided to purposefully contradict the central plot point with their follow-up.
So it goes.
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Forikorder, I'm starting to wonder if you answer this in good faith.
and he was working on killing her, until he found a way to revert her to whom she was, his anger at losing fenix would only be eclipsed by his anger at himself for allowing her to be abandoned in the first place so obviously saving her gets more priority then avenging the dead
(...)pf course the anger would dull, anger isnt a very lasting emotion when you spend several years thinking about the past and drinking yourself into a stupour
Despite all my reluctance to real life comparisons, I can't resist making two.
"True, Bin Laden killed all these people back in the days, but that was 10 years ago. If our intelligence had been better, we could have prevented the strike. Don't be angry after all this time, those people are dead anyway, let's just remember the days he helped us against the Soviets."
The above statement is sheer absurdity, but it is just as ridiculous than being in love with Kerrigan after Brood War. Ally with her, she kills you anyway. That's what Brood War showed us.
no none of that is important, Acturus lsot and regained his throne
Kerrigan lost and regained the swarm
the UED conquered then lsot territory
Shakuras came under attack and was repelled
none of which had alsting effects on the SC universe During the 20th century, communism appeared and disappeared. Germany conquered Europe and lost it. Dictators rose to power and fell. Nothing important happened really.
Wait, what?
did you forget that Duran stated he was a servant to a much greater power? Duran did not create them his mysterious master did Nope, the hybrids were made by splicing genes and combining them in a laboratory, with actual teams of scientists. Duran serves someone, but I can give you at least two quotes that shows he is in charge of the project. He may not have been alone, but that qualifies him as one the "creators".
only if unlike Raynor you see the Queen of Blades as the rue personality of Sarah Kerrigan, if you see the Queen of Blades as a secondary persona forced on her by the transmogrification then you wouldnt see it as Kerrigan being beyond redemption youd see it as "the queen of blades persona isnt removable" In SC1, the "Queen of Blades" was Kerrigan when the Overmind was still alive, and "Sarah" was after the Overmind died and she became free of its control.
If you add WoL's retcon of "good Sarah", which didn't exist in Brood War, that makes a total of three personnalities...
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On February 20 2012 06:22 Tamburlaine wrote:Show nested quote +On February 20 2012 05:01 Forikorder wrote:
it doesnt matter if everyone else in the universe and out of the universe believes 100%that the queen of blades is how kerrigan really is
the point is Raynor doesnt think that, hes always believed that if it wsnt for Zerg brainwashing shed still be the kind caring self sacrificing chick he fell in love with
a strong indicator of this is his dealing with Hanson and his line "your infested, your dead already" which means he doesnt consider an infested terran as a terran there jsut a Zerg and whoever they were before died when they got infested
when he learned about the Artifact he discovered a way to essentially bring Sarah Kerrigan back to life and he took his chance I... what? No. Jesus. No. Okay. One last try. Have you ever read "Of Mice and Men"? It's a great book. Quick read, too. If you haven't read it, go out to the library and do so now. Fantastic novel, really. If you absolutely hate reading, there's a very well done movie of it, too (stars Gary Sinise and John Malkovich). Don't worry about me; I've got lots of time, and it's worth reading even if you don't care about my point. Okay, have you read/watched it now? Okay, massive spoiler warning after this point for anyone here that hasn't read it, yeah? Stop reading this post right god damn now. Not a word farther. Just close this tab. Now. Alright, cool. Great book/movie, right? Now think of the very end bit there, where George pulls the gun on his only friend. He's talking about the life life they'll live together and how happy they'll be and he knows it's a lie and he's trying not to cry and you're trying not to cry because you and he know what's going to happen even though you both don't want it to. And he shoots his one and only friend - a friend that trusted and relied on him for protection from the harsh world - he shoots him in the back of the head. Now imagine someone made a sequel to Of Mice and Men, picking right up from that moment. Imagine if Lennie stood back up and tore off his own flesh, revealing that he was in fact a Terminator-esque robot. He then killed George and went on a rampage, destroying the farm first before moving on to the nearest town, only stopped when the American army caught up to him in a battle full of special effects and lens flare. Okay, now. See those two paragraphs above? That first paragraph is Brood War. The second one is Wings of Liberty. This whole, "Well obviously Raynor always believed in her and wanted to save her!" line is like saying, "Lennie obviously never loved George. He was just toying with the fleshy creature before trying to destroy the world." The only thing that keeps these two sentences from being completely equivalent statements is that Blizzard actually decided to use the fan-fic level plot in their sequel, and nobody has yet done the same for Of Mice and Men. Were I to come in to a great deal of wealth and make such a movie (or commission such a novel), it would not de-legitimize its predecessor. The beautiful and emotional climax would not be voided by my follow-up. So it goes with Starcraft. The only reason Brood War appears not to have mattered is because Blizzard decided to purposefully contradict the central plot point with their follow-up. So it goes.
except raynor believes she was being cotnrolled by Zerg brainwashing for the entirety of bW and most of wings
Despite all my reluctance to real life comparisons, I can't resist making two.
"True, Bin Laden killed all these people back in the days, but that was 10 years ago. If our intelligence had been better, we could have prevented the strike. Don't be angry after all this time, those people are dead anyway, let's just remember the days he helped us against the Soviets."
The above statement is sheer absurdity, but it is just as ridiculous than being in love with Kerrigan after Brood War. Ally with her, she kills you anyway. That's what Brood War showed us.
well if Bin Laden was infested by an alien race then maybe this would be a good comparison.... but he didnt so its pretty moot
During the 20th century, communism appeared and disappeared. Germany conquered Europe and lost it. Dictators rose to power and fell. Nothing important happened really.
Wait, what?
how much of that affects your everyday life? in most cases, none of that at all really affects waht you do on a day to day basis
if anything that happened during broodwar at all in any way effected anything that happened in wings it would have been mentioned (aside from teh secret mission) but nothing that heppened during broodwar effected the events of wings enough to be worth mentioning
Nope, the hybrids were made by splicing genes and combining them in a laboratory, with actual teams of scientists. Duran serves someone, but I can give you at least two quotes that shows he is in charge of the project. He may not have been alone, but that qualifies him as one the "creators".
Zeratul doesnt care whos the one manning the machines and making the calculations, we wants to know whos the one ORDERING people to man the machines and make the calculations
In SC1, the "Queen of Blades" was Kerrigan when the Overmind was still alive, and "Sarah" was after the Overmind died and she became free of its control.
perhaps free of DIRECT control, but whos tos ay while the Overmind was remaking her body he didnt mess with her brain a bit and change her completely?
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Were this any other forum, I would now post a .gif of a gorilla walking in to frame, looking around, and running away on his hind legs. But this is Team Liquid, and even though the mods probably never venture in to this particular subforum unless called, I will not post that awesome gorilla .gif. Because I love you - Harem, motbob, tree.hugger, Manifesto, ET, and all the rest - and also I love not being yelled at by mods because I am very timid and afraid of angering authority figures. So instead of that great .gif, I shall simply say this:
I give up.
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EPT
