No love for Fenix?

On February 18 2012 02:04 ne4aJIb wrote:
It was so sad when I had to kill Fenix in order to win the mission. My queen flew over and turned Fenix into broodlings. T_T
Also I remember Raynor's words to Kerrigan, that he will revenge for killing Fenix. Apparently, as seen in WoL, he forgot about his vow...
Maybe he will reappear as an Immortal in the Legacy of the Void?

On February 18 2012 01:58 Xenomorph wrote:
Yeah look at BW I know they love to retcon but Raynor vowed to kill Kerrigan for killing Fenix. There was such raw passion behind that storyline of alien races coming together for the greater good and Fenix was a main part of that. Fenix is also the first protoss hero you control and generally know about.

On February 18 2012 03:39 Tamburlaine wrote:
Waiting for him to come back as an Immortal in Legacy of the Void.

On February 18 2012 01:58 Xenomorph wrote:
Yeah look at BW I know they love to retcon but Raynor vowed to kill Kerrigan for killing Fenix. There was such raw passion behind that storyline of alien races coming together for the greater good and Fenix was a main part of that. Fenix is also the first protoss hero you control and generally know about.

On February 18 2012 05:30 GlintFox wrote:
He died in broodwar bro. And once you die as a dragoon theres no coming back, same with a stalker and an immortal. Since you cannot "whoosh back to base like zealots, dt's, and high templars do". He's still the most badass and best protoss warrior though

On February 18 2012 06:12 aZealot wrote:
I have a question about this. I thought BW was retconned - does this mean that Fenix is still alive?

Or were only some elements of BW retconned, and Fenix still died?

On February 18 2012 02:07 TheToast wrote:
frankly I think Chris Metzen is not a very good writer and has also gotten pretty lazy (like come on, the WC3 RoC plot was exactly the same as the SC1 plot).

I lost all faith in Blizzard to produce a good single player campaign long ago, TFT was just as bad/boring as SC2.

On February 18 2012 02:31 DreamChaser wrote:


winner right here.

On February 18 2012 05:30 GlintFox wrote:
He died in broodwar bro. And once you die as a dragoon theres no coming back, same with a stalker and an immortal. Since you cannot "whoosh back to base like zealots, dt's, and high templars do". He's still the most badass and best protoss warrior though

On February 18 2012 06:34 DeepElemBlues wrote:
As far as we know Fenix is dead with a capital D, but for one I really hope that some Protoss swooped down and saved him after his goon popped and he's in a stasis chamber and will come back as an Immortal for LotV.

On February 18 2012 05:54 Noocta wrote:


There's no protoss soul in a Stalker.
They're robots controled by the mind of a Dark Templar.

there was no "brave idealist that turns out to be a power-hungry jerk" .

On February 18 2012 14:51 Garson wrote:


Illidan Stormrage or Arthas Menethil anyone?

On February 18 2012 20:21 HornyHerring wrote:
Well, SC2 is not over yet, and I bet Fenix will show up, if not in HotS, he will be in LotV.

On February 18 2012 02:04 ne4aJIb wrote:
It was so sad when I had to kill Fenix in order to win the mission. My queen flew over and turned Fenix into broodlings. T_T
Also I remember Raynor's words to Kerrigan, that he will revenge for killing Fenix. Apparently, as seen in WoL, he forgot about his vow...
Maybe he will reappear as an Immortal in the Legacy of the Void?

On February 18 2012 18:58 BreakfastBurrito wrote:
question though, is artanis still alive and flying around in his super scout? he was the newest praetor after all...?

On February 18 2012 23:14 DreamChaser wrote:
I don't mean to de-rail this but was i the only one who didn't know a SINGLE protoss hero besides Artanis in the "void of darkness?" Misson? Like i was like WHO? are you people trying to help me when CLEARLY everybody here is fucked.

On February 18 2012 07:03 Hulavuta wrote:


the only thing that was retconned were that the Overmind is now a good guy and Kerrigan actually IS mad at Mengsk and doesn't like being infested.

Either way, it's not just Fenix. Nobody even says "En Taro Adun" anymore (except the Immortals).

On February 19 2012 05:41 IntoTheheart wrote:


Well he's doing that for now. I mean aren't they scrapping the Mothership in the next expansion?

On February 18 2012 22:59 ShatterZer0 wrote:
I always expected an "Infested Fenix" kinda character to show up at some point in SC2 back in the day.... You know, Kerrigan keeps around Fenix's body as a trophy of sorts and then Duran steals it away as a perfect specimen for Hybridization.

Oh well, I always thought it would be a powerful scene seeing Infested Fenix get sent to fight against Raynor.

On February 19 2012 18:40 phodacbiet wrote:
The writer for the single player campaign obviously did not play bw. At the end of Broodwar, Raynor said the next time he sees kerrigan he will kill her, now 10 years later (is that time right? not sure), all he can think about is boning her

On February 19 2012 20:48 Telenil wrote:

You know, I'm not sure there is a single reference to Brood War in any of the 29 missions. Shakuras isn't mentionned, Raszagal's only appearance is in one of the ZeratulWhat sounds. The UED is only mentionned in the description of the Spartan Company, so not in any cutscene or level. And even when Zeratul spots an hybrid, he doesn't remember that Duran was the one creating them...

You could go straight from the death of the Overmind to WoL, the only puzzling element would be the absence of general Duke. In fact, you would understand the story better: Raynor loving Kerrigan, her split personnality and the Dominion having enough forces to land on Char make more sense after the original game than after Brood War ><

On February 20 2012 02:45 IntoTheheart wrote:


Raynor threatening to kill Kerrigan was what I thought to be a pivotal part of Brood War. Too bad he became a fallen angel and decided to forget the whole business.

On February 20 2012 02:21 Forikorder wrote:
okay, what happened during BW that was important?

the protoss defended Aiur from the zerg
the UED apeared, took over some space and the overmind then lost all the territory they gained
Kerrigan became the one leader of the Swarm

everything was pretty self contained, the only real big thing that happened was during a secret mission not everyone saw

and as for Zeratuls words, it depends how you view them, you could see him as who was literally creating them which would be Duran, or you could see it as Zeratul wondering who Durans MASTER was, Duran isnt the one making the Hybrids he jsut runs the machines its Durans master who is creating the hybrids

On February 20 2012 02:57 Forikorder wrote:
its been several years in which Kerrigan spent the entire time having a slumber party on Char

its not like she was right in his face the entire time killing people, he had years for the sudden angry outburst to dull

people make it sound like he made some blood oath to a forgotten god he got angry and yelled, he calmed down

On February 20 2012 02:21 Forikorder wrote:

okay, what happened during BW that was important?

the protoss defended Aiur from the zerg
the UED apeared, took over some space and the overmind then lost all the territory they gained
Kerrigan became the one leader of the Swarm

everything was pretty self contained, the only real big thing that happened was during a secret mission not everyone saw

and as for Zeratuls words, it depends how you view them, you could see him as who was literally creating them which would be Duran, or you could see it as Zeratul wondering who Durans MASTER was, Duran isnt the one making the Hybrids he jsut runs the machines its Durans master who is creating the hybrids

On February 18 2012 01:58 Xenomorph wrote:
Yeah look at BW I know they love to retcon but Raynor vowed to kill Kerrigan for killing Fenix. There was such raw passion behind that storyline of alien races coming together for the greater good and Fenix was a main part of that. Fenix is also the first protoss hero you control and generally know about.

It was still a promise that he'd kill her. I wonder where that characterization went.

What important happened? The protoss fled to Shakuras, re-united with their long-exiled brethren, a new Overmind grew on Char, a giant fleet conquered the entire Dominion by force, Arcturus was forced to ally with the zerg to retake its throne, then said zerg invaded Khoral and butchered the Dominion forces stationned there.
I do expect these events to have some sort of impact on the present world.

I guess you can end up with a consistent story if you take the writers' work and correct it, but as far as WoL's actual dialogs are concerned, I quote Zeratul and Duran from Brood War: "This grand endeavour is quite beyond Kerrigan's narrow understanding. -Do you have any conception of what you have created here? -Of course I do."
So when Zeratul wonders, quote again, "who created this atrocity?", the correct answer is "Duran, he told you in 1998".

Seriously, if your ex-girlfriend told your friends to trust her, then muredered them and laughed at your face, your "sudden angry outburst" would "dull" because you didn't see her for 3-4 years?
Given how Fenix's force was obliterated on Khoral, Raynor probably lost more friends to Kerrigan's forces than to Arcturus'

The most important part of Brood War was this: Kerrigan is beyond redemption.

Well I mean, she DID tell the UED to go back home but then killed all of them...

On February 20 2012 05:01 Forikorder wrote:


only if unlike Raynor you see the Queen of Blades as the rue personality of Sarah Kerrigan, if you see the Queen of Blades as a secondary persona forced on her by the transmogrification then you wouldnt see it as Kerrigan being beyond redemption youd see it as "the queen of blades persona isnt removable"

On February 20 2012 05:24 Tamburlaine wrote:

I'm trying, believe me, but it's... a little hard to make out exactly what you're saying.

As far as I can tell, you're trying to argue that there was confusion as to whether or not Kerrigan was inherently and irreversably evil. If that isn't the case, then... well, please clarify. But if it is? You're right. That was left totally open.

At the end of Vanilla SC1.

The point of Brood War was that one of those perspectives was wrong. It was false. That was the point. That was the purpose. I mean, protoss reunification and the reveal of Duran and the hybrids, yeah, but mostly that. The point of Brood War was that there is no room for "perspective" on Kerrigan. There is no, "Well, that's not how Raynor saw it...". That was pre-Brood War. That died with Aldaris, Raszagal, Duke, and Fenix.

And then magic, because fuck narrative consistency.

On February 20 2012 05:44 phodacbiet wrote:


That is in SC2, when the writing is written by a monkey with a typewriter ^^ (and that was probably one of the most cliche line ever). Did you know kerrigan and our little jimmy allied together? When Kerrigan said a new overmind was forming and that she was "good" without the overmind, Jimmy and the Protossuh helped her kill the second overmind, when that happened, she trololol and killed Fenix + most of Jimmy's friends. So what happened was this, she turned evil, Raynor still loves her, she asked for help, Raynor helped thinking he could save her, Raynor suceeded in helping her, she slaughtered most of raynor's friends, Raynor goes "wtf, next time i see you i am gonna shoot you you in the head", few years later in an alternate universe, Raynor still loves kerrigan because Fenix doesnt exist in this universe and Kerrigan never betrayed Raynor.

On February 20 2012 05:01 Forikorder wrote:
it doesnt matter if everyone else in the universe and out of the universe believes 100%that the queen of blades is how kerrigan really is

the point is Raynor doesnt think that, hes always believed that if it wsnt for Zerg brainwashing shed still be the kind caring self sacrificing chick he fell in love with

a strong indicator of this is his dealing with Hanson and his line "your infested, your dead already" which means he doesnt consider an infested terran as a terran there jsut a Zerg and whoever they were before died when they got infested

when he learned about the Artifact he discovered a way to essentially bring Sarah Kerrigan back to life and he took his chance

and he was working on killing her, until he found a way to revert her to whom she was, his anger at losing fenix would only be eclipsed by his anger at himself for allowing her to be abandoned in the first place so obviously saving her gets more priority then avenging the dead
(...)pf course the anger would dull, anger isnt a very lasting emotion when you spend several years thinking about the past and drinking yourself into a stupour

no none of that is important, Acturus lsot and regained his throne
Kerrigan lost and regained the swarm
the UED conquered then lsot territory
Shakuras came under attack and was repelled
none of which had alsting effects on the SC universe

did you forget that Duran stated he was a servant to a much greater power? Duran did not create them his mysterious master did

only if unlike Raynor you see the Queen of Blades as the rue personality of Sarah Kerrigan, if you see the Queen of Blades as a secondary persona forced on her by the transmogrification then you wouldnt see it as Kerrigan being beyond redemption youd see it as "the queen of blades persona isnt removable"

On February 20 2012 06:22 Tamburlaine wrote:

I... what? No. Jesus. No.

Okay. One last try.

Have you ever read "Of Mice and Men"? It's a great book. Quick read, too. If you haven't read it, go out to the library and do so now. Fantastic novel, really. If you absolutely hate reading, there's a very well done movie of it, too (stars Gary Sinise and John Malkovich). Don't worry about me; I've got lots of time, and it's worth reading even if you don't care about my point.

Okay, have you read/watched it now? Okay, massive spoiler warning after this point for anyone here that hasn't read it, yeah? Stop reading this post right god damn now. Not a word farther. Just close this tab. Now.

Alright, cool. Great book/movie, right? Now think of the very end bit there, where George pulls the gun on his only friend. He's talking about the life life they'll live together and how happy they'll be and he knows it's a lie and he's trying not to cry and you're trying not to cry because you and he know what's going to happen even though you both don't want it to. And he shoots his one and only friend - a friend that trusted and relied on him for protection from the harsh world - he shoots him in the back of the head.

Now imagine someone made a sequel to Of Mice and Men, picking right up from that moment. Imagine if Lennie stood back up and tore off his own flesh, revealing that he was in fact a Terminator-esque robot. He then killed George and went on a rampage, destroying the farm first before moving on to the nearest town, only stopped when the American army caught up to him in a battle full of special effects and lens flare.

Okay, now. See those two paragraphs above? That first paragraph is Brood War. The second one is Wings of Liberty. This whole, "Well obviously Raynor always believed in her and wanted to save her!" line is like saying, "Lennie obviously never loved George. He was just toying with the fleshy creature before trying to destroy the world." The only thing that keeps these two sentences from being completely equivalent statements is that Blizzard actually decided to use the fan-fic level plot in their sequel, and nobody has yet done the same for Of Mice and Men. Were I to come in to a great deal of wealth and make such a movie (or commission such a novel), it would not de-legitimize its predecessor. The beautiful and emotional climax would not be voided by my follow-up.

So it goes with Starcraft. The only reason Brood War appears not to have mattered is because Blizzard decided to purposefully contradict the central plot point with their follow-up.

So it goes.

Despite all my reluctance to real life comparisons, I can't resist making two.
"True, Bin Laden killed all these people back in the days, but that was 10 years ago. If our intelligence had been better, we could have prevented the strike. Don't be angry after all this time, those people are dead anyway, let's just remember the days he helped us against the Soviets."
The above statement is sheer absurdity, but it is just as ridiculous than being in love with Kerrigan after Brood War. Ally with her, she kills you anyway. That's what Brood War showed us.

During the 20th century, communism appeared and disappeared. Germany conquered Europe and lost it. Dictators rose to power and fell. Nothing important happened really.
Wait, what?

Nope, the hybrids were made by splicing genes and combining them in a laboratory, with actual teams of scientists. Duran serves someone, but I can give you at least two quotes that shows he is in charge of the project. He may not have been alone, but that qualifies him as one the "creators".

In SC1, the "Queen of Blades" was Kerrigan when the Overmind was still alive, and "Sarah" was after the Overmind died and she became free of its control.

On February 20 2012 14:01 Hinanawi wrote:
Forikorder so desperately wants WoL to be a good followup to BW when it objectively isn't, it's almost pathetic.

On February 18 2012 07:48 Telenil wrote:
About Fenix: I certainly hope he will never return. Tassadar not being dead would be the worst retcon if not for the good Overmind, and Fenix's death was at least as touching as Tassadar's. Dead people should stay dead, World of Warcraft resurrected dozens of characters that had died (litterally, I was at 25 when I stopped counting). If characters can't be killed, what's the point? Why should I care about Zeratul if the story says "he's a cool guy, dying wouldn't kill him"?
That's partly what was so memorable in Fenix's death. If a beloved character can die, you suddenly care a lot more about the fate of the others.


I totally disagree with that. There is no equivalent to the orcs or the blood elves in SC1, the terran worlds weren't crushed the way Lordaeron was, there was no "brave idealist that turns out to be a power-hungry jerk" in Warcraft 3. Even the alliance between Raynor's Raiders and the Protoss was secondary to the plot, whereas it was the culmination of Reign of Chaos.
You didn't have silly plot holes like "Tychus worked for Mengsk but was the one who piloted the superweapon in Media Blitz". And it didn't end with the hero carrying his naked girlfriend towards the sunset.
I could go on for a while.

You do have a good character that turns evil, a civil war between a former human/elf and bad guys to control the brainless race, with the former human eventually betraying her allies. But that doesn't make the plot "exactly the same".

On February 21 2012 04:47 Xenomorph wrote:
I just think that things that happened in BW should be referenced because they are important to the lore. Also people are negating the plot of BW even though it beats WOL story easily. Raynor spent the entirety of BW zerg missions with Fenix that's more than just a "side-kick" especially when he's one of the most well remembered protoss warriors. I do not want him to return, but I do want him to have an impact on events past. I mean they redid kerrigans betrayal they can't add a flashback, or memory or mention of him?

BW setup SC2 and people are saying its events didn't even matter?

the only thing that happened during broodwar taht set up wing is Zeratuls self-imposed Exile which was more from the books then the game

On February 21 2012 05:45 TheToast wrote:

You've completely mixed up the plots from TFT and ROC, as well as SC2 and BW. I said the plot from SC1 and WC3 ROC were exactly the same.

WC3: ROC (vanilla WC3)
Plucky hero is turned evil and in the next episode is the player's new hero.
Player must fight against an ancient race to finish the conquest of the world.
In the next episode player takes control of the ancient race in an attemp to destroy the evil.
There is a civil war/civil dispute within the ranks of the ancient race that the player eventually overcomes, uniting the race.
Player makes a final assault on the evil people and wins.

This is what we've been telling you from 2 pages: none of the events of Brood War is used in WoL, at all. And we believe this is bad.

On February 21 2012 07:58 Forikorder wrote:

okay then, point out where you think events of brood war could be naturally refrenced without seeming out of place

On top of my mind, there is Kate Lockwell and Dony Vermillon's dialog "The Queen of Blades is a former human, which raises the question, perhaps an alliance between terran and zerg is possible? - Dony, there has never been any evidence, at all, that infested terrans still possess their free will." The correct answer was: "Dony, we've allied with the Queen of Blades to retake this very city from the UED. You could see it from your windows, remember? And then she butchered our men in their sleep."

Or when Zeratul finds the hybrid: "Gods! It is the same creatures that I saw on the Dark Moon four years ago! Have they finally awakened?"

Or Matt Horner: "Jim, Kerrigan is a murderer. When we last thought she could change, it ended with the death of Fenix and many others! I can't believe you're sending us to Char for a remote chance of being with her again."

On February 22 2012 01:59 Forikorder wrote:

wait you actually think that Acturus made it public knowledge in any way that he had teamed up with the Queen of Baldes?

and in case you noticed, the UED didnt exactly set up in much of a residential area

On February 22 2012 01:59 Forikorder wrote:
you assuming Matt had any special relationship with Fenix

It did actually. The briefing explicitely states that Kerrigan's zerg attacked the main UED base at Augustgrade, Khoral's capital.
The Khoral population couldn't miss a bunch of zerg engaging UED soldiers in street fighting, right at the time when Arcturus' followers attacked other objectives on the planet.

Yes, because he is Raynor's second in command on the Hyperion since the first zerg campaign. He knew Fenix as well as Raynor did.

Trying to say that Blizzard wanted to keep the secret mission secret, or that Matt couldn't mention Fenix at any point, is bad faith. You wanted me to give some situations when they could have mentionned Brood War events without feeling out of place, I did. You can find more by yourself if you think a bit

On February 22 2012 02:35 Forikorder wrote:
okay... so what? the Zerg are attacking Korhal anyone who thought that Mengsk teamed with the Zerg wouldnt be thinking that after the zerg started attacking Mengsks forces too, the citizens would jsut see it as Mengsk realising the Zerg were going to attack Korhal and using it as a diversion to retake the planet

i doubt the UED would want a ton of Mengsk loyal people hanging around while hes using all his resources to assault Char and other important objectibves, he knows how resourceful Mengsk is, hed be willing to ship everyone to some other world and keep them locked up somewhere then risk some ghost of Mengsk getting a lucky shot or setting of a Nuke

doesnt mean they were attached to the hip, doesnt mean Matt actually spent anytime chatting it up with the protoss

no you didnt, you offered one plausible situation that is explained by them not wanting to release any spoilers

and your other two jsut dont make sense if there were any civilians at Augustgrad theyd all be dead anyway Kerrigan would ahve just killed them and palyed innocent later, not that Mengsk would ahve had any way of knowing she could even jsut say the UED did it

Man, Mengsk's rousing speech before the battle must have been totally awesome.

"Brave people and soldiers of the Dominion!

Tonight your beloved Emperor comes to deliver you from the evil grasp of your UED tyrants. Join me in that final battle, in the name of Humanity!

On an unrelated note, don't worry about the zerg that have just appeared on the radar and are about to slaughter the human defenders of the capital city where your family live. They will only kill UED soldiers, not your wives and children. No, I'm totally not ally with them, they just dislike UED uniforms. So don't shoot them. Trust me."

Kerrigan *didn't* kill the people of Khoral after True Colours, where Mengsk's forces were decimated. If you say she would, you're wrong. Seriously, do you expect to convince anyone?
It is your right to like the WoL storyline. That's fine with me, you don't even have to justify it. But don't imagine nonsense like "Matt didn't spend any time chatting with the Protoss", "the UED obviously moved millions of people out of Khoral", or "Blizzard didn't want to spoil a level that everyone could play for 12 years" to cover plot holes just because you're unwilling to admit the writers could have done anything differently

assuming that Civilians were even still there

assuming he let anyone know the Zerg would be attacking Augustgrad

and its safe to tell the brainwashed soldiers taht the Zerg are attacking Augustgrad they dont care and wont leak

and again, why wouldnt they evacuate the civilians, ASSUMING that Mengsk didnt ALREADY move his civilians out of teh war zone, AND assuming taht sometime during the UED raining death on there capital the civilians didnt tuck tail and run already?

any civilian could ahve been a ghost or other operative of Mengsk, the UED has no way of knowing if Mengsk has weapons stockpiled somewhere, why would they keep a population that could easily be converted into a powerful militia? i wouldnt be surprised if teh UED killed all the Civilians the Earth sees them as second class citizens, they already killed all of the people with geneic mutations and stuff on earth without batting an eye, why wouldnt Dugalle spend a bit on carpet bombing the civilians?

and ill assume since you didnt bring up Char again you have finally agreed it makes no sense for Matt to bring up Fenix

You assume the civilians are not there. You assume that no one knew he was working with the zerg, when we actually see some of his soldiers carrying the psi emmitters to Braxis. You assume 100% of Mengsk's forces are made of brainwashed soldiers, when it isn't (need a source?). You assume Matt Horner barely met any protoss. And you assume it is possible to evacuate millions of civilians from a metropolis with no one left behind.

Despite your arguments crumbling if you are wrong on even one of these points, you never quote a single briefing, novel or in-game dialog to back you up, because you are making stuff up. I suspect that whatever I say, you're going to stretch your imagination and find a counter-argument, no matter how absurd it is.

Hey, let me play too: since you didn't answer to "it would be stupid from Blizzard to try not to spoil a game that went out 12 years ago", I assume you agree that Brood War events could have been mentionned there, thus I win.

and yes, every soldier in Mengsks army has been resocialized, its a pretty major lore point

im pretty sure its more logical to assume that everyone in Augustgrad either A) evacuated or B) died

im not quite sure the average intelligence of a terran, but im pretty sure there smart nough to run away when nukes start getting launched

they didnt want to spoil the secret mission and it would have been very confusing to people if Zeratul just said "oh look its that thing i saw a few years ago" becuase then majority of players would ahve no clue at all what the thing he saw 4 years ago was

and theres no Way Mengsk would have let a single Civilian know about the Zerg and theres no way kerrigan would have jsut ignored civilians, why would she? the swarm is hungry, she has bases set up right next to them, those forces are uninvolved in the assasination, why not munch of some civs while shes got down time? she wants Mengsk to realise how he cant protect anything you think shed just kill some B list general and wave goodbye?

Wrong. From the novel Wings of Liberty, when the hero is sent with the Confederate Marine Corps: "do you know how many people there have been brainwashed? -Never more than 50% per unit."
Now you're going to tell me that it was at the time of the Confederacy, but do you have any quote stating it has changed? No. Do you have, in fact, any quote unambiguously stating there was a time when 100% of the marines were neurosocialised? Not that the Dominion army makes heavy use of brainwashed soldiers, but that they all are, no exceptions? I'd be surprised. Do I have a quote that explicitely states the opposite? Yes.

In that case, you should take time to read some history books. There was still civilians in Stalingrad after 6 months of one the most terrible battles in history, including three months in the heart of the Russian winter with soldiers dying from hunger. Even in 2012, Syrian forces have been bombing a city for 17 days and counting, with artillery and snipers shooting people in the street, but there are still thousands of people living there.

On February 24 2012 00:34 BabyToss! wrote:

As far as I am concerned, I would bang the second one any day. I remember Fenix as my childhood hero (played SC1 Protoss campaigns when I was like 12 or so, because I loved Protoss lore) and it is kinda lame that there was no mention of him in WoL, as far as I remember. Can't be really any impressed by Selendis, who we've seen only briefly and she's done nothing interesting.

Wish Fenix was back, though he was most badass as Zealot...

+ Show Spoiler +

On February 25 2012 10:04 Fourn wrote:
Raynor's speech after killing Fenix is so fkn epic.

How many more noble souls do you need to consume before you're satisfied? How many more people need to die before you realize what you've become?

The dialogue in SC2 fkn sucks compared to SC1/BW

On February 27 2012 08:33 Zer atai wrote:
Yeah, he definitely needs to be mentioned. Something like:

"En Taro Fenix"

On February 27 2012 11:06 IntoTheheart wrote:


You still can't deny what he did to be important though. Fair enough, but Tassadar didn't seem to have killed the Overmind. Fragments are still alive (or something)...

On February 25 2012 10:27 Soft`Soap wrote:
There is a very hilarious video on youtube where a guy compares the dialogue in sc1 to the dialogue in sc2 and points out that some characters just sound stupid now (Zeratul)

On February 28 2012 07:41 Ysellian wrote:
/rant

You know what fucking upsets me. Is that this story had the perfect chance to make sense, because there were loads of times where Fenix could be mentioned. Because he should have been the reason for Raynor going after Kerrigan, he should have been the reason that Raynor postponed his revolution and not this supposed love/artifact crap. Raynor and Fenix were brother in arms FFS :/

On February 28 2012 07:31 Korste wrote:
didnt he die in bw?

On February 27 2012 11:28 Forikorder wrote:

what did Fenix do that was so important? the only thing he did was have his heroic sacrifice at the waygate

He gives vital informantion to tassadar and they both help free zeratul from the conclave. Raynor and Fenix free tassadar from his stasis cell. He also helps on all the major missions giving a large amount of forces and masterminding many of the strategies. Without Fenix The conclave would still have Zeratul and Tassadar.

On February 27 2012 15:46 craz3d wrote:
Yea, there should have been some mention of Fenix in passing conversation.

Comparing the two games, BW is grittier and darker than SC2. If they wanted to keep with that grittiness, they should have released the Zerg campaign first, featuring Kerrigan as the main character, and then have her killed in the Terran campaign by Raynor despite that love that he still harbored for her. Maybe that will still happen, but I would have rather not seen Jim Raynor reduced to an emotional pussbag, which was not how he was portrayed in BW.

I guess they started with the Terran campaign because Terran as a race seems more attractive to the thousands of people who's first taste of the SC universe was SC2. So once again, the priority to make bank is higher than writing a good story. Ho-ho! Big surprise there.

On March 03 2012 00:23 DoubleReed wrote:
Yea that scene where the doctor lady turned into a monster wasnt dark at all /sarcasm.

On March 03 2012 01:43 Telenil wrote:

Actually, that scene is the one moment in which I truly felt I was playing the sequel of Brood War - in my opinion, the best moment in the entire WoL. The other two good bits were the liberation of New Folsom and the following video, and In Utter Darkness (except for the final cheesy lines of the Dark Voice). You may find a couple of others, but that's it.

If these three bits had been more representative of the overall atmosphere of the game, I wouldn't criticize the WoL storyline nearly as much as I do. Unfortunately, you have a lot more cheesy dialog and inconsistent events than somewhat dark or realistic scenes.

On February 27 2012 15:46 craz3d wrote:
Yea, there should have been some mention of Fenix in passing conversation.

Comparing the two games, BW is grittier and darker than SC2. If they wanted to keep with that grittiness, they should have released the Zerg campaign first, featuring Kerrigan as the main character, and then have her killed in the Terran campaign by Raynor despite that love that he still harbored for her. Maybe that will still happen, but I would have rather not seen Jim Raynor reduced to an emotional pussbag, which was not how he was portrayed in BW.

I guess they started with the Terran campaign because Terran as a race seems more attractive to the thousands of people who's first taste of the SC universe was SC2. So once again, the priority to make bank is higher than writing a good story. Ho-ho! Big surprise there.

On June 10 2012 12:19 revy wrote:


Original SC campaign order was TZP. I took the TZP SC2 order to be paying homage to SC1.

On June 11 2012 02:11 Moonsalt wrote:
I hope to see him again in HotS!

On June 11 2012 02:46 Zvenn3n wrote:

Doubt it. If there's any installation of SCII Fenix will be in, then I think it'll be LOTV. I really hope so, because Fenix was my fav character. Killing him felt like killing a tiny part of myself =(

On March 03 2012 01:43 Telenil wrote:

Actually, that scene is the one moment in which I truly felt I was playing the sequel of Brood War - in my opinion, the best moment in the entire WoL. The other two good bits were the liberation of New Folsom and the following video, and In Utter Darkness (except for the final cheesy lines of the Dark Voice). You may find a couple of others, but that's it.

If these three bits had been more representative of the overall atmosphere of the game, I wouldn't criticize the WoL storyline nearly as much as I do. Unfortunately, you have a lot more cheesy dialog and inconsistent events than somewhat dark or realistic scenes.

On March 03 2012 12:01 Xenomorph wrote:
Yeah I'm looking forward to the "dark" aspect of HOTS. The games give you a taste of every faction.

WOL: Hit and run "mercanary" group of survivors with the cause of liberty. (Freedom Fighting)
HOTS: Zerg swarm with Kerrigan bent on revenge and killing mengsk. (Revenge)
LOTV: Epic conclusion with (hopefully) focus on epic events and the legend of the protoss and xel'naga. (Legend)

On June 12 2012 05:50 B.I.G. wrote:
I still think Kerrigan should fucking die for killing fenix. It's possibly the thing that bothers me the most about SC2 - Raynor being spineless and breaking the sacred code: bros before hoes. The man is thinking with his dick.

On June 11 2012 11:44 Chargelot wrote:

Which is why they won't bring him back. His death was too sacred. It solidified our hatreds.

On June 15 2012 11:46 Warlock40 wrote:
You know why Fenix wasn't even mentioned? Because the last time he was mentioned, it was when Raynor vowed to avenge his death by killing Kerrigan, in what was arguably the most powerful scene in all of SC1 / BW storyline. Now that SC2 completely retconned that vow for vengeance with a cheesy romance that never existed in the first game, you can't really talk about Fenix, because that would bring about awkward questions about how bad the SC2 storyline is.

On February 18 2012 02:07 TheToast wrote:
SC2 story line is a mess of cliches, absurd retcons, and random crap that was stuffed in to pad out a weak plot. There are dozens of characters and side stories that have been completely forgotten or ignored, frankly I think Chris Metzen is not a very good writer and has also gotten pretty lazy (like come on, the WC3 RoC plot was exactly the same as the SC1 plot).

I lost all faith in Blizzard to produce a good single player campaign long ago, TFT was just as bad/boring as SC2. At least it didn't completely re-write accepted canon. (though RoC did add a bunch of random crap into the WC universe)

On February 18 2012 03:39 Tamburlaine wrote:
Waiting for him to come back as an Immortal in Legacy of the Void.

On June 20 2012 05:35 KissBlade wrote:
Sentinel' story is epic. In fact, that's canon now as far as I'm concerned in my game =).

On June 23 2012 01:34 iNbluE wrote:
Do we honestly still expect good story lines in blizzard games? Look at D3, SC2, TFT... Lame, as lame as it gets.

On June 23 2012 23:07 zbedlam wrote:
the fact he survived so many missions when he was either a zealot or a dragoon is testament to his manliness.

at least kerrigan is pretty boss, so there's hope for HotS yet. As long as they don't turn her into the same generic confused emo bitch they turned raynor into it'll be all good.

On June 15 2012 14:25 Darknat wrote:
Fenix was a minor character.

+ Show Spoiler +

On June 25 2012 08:38 askTeivospy wrote:


blizz just ruined the story by making sc2 raynor-kerrigan chapter an insecure love story instead of a retribution story that was set up in BW. You're just looking for loopholes imo

On June 25 2012 09:12 Forikorder wrote:

i dont really see how it was set up

if someone died every time someone said "ill kill you" humanity would be extinct "ill kill you" jsut means "woa i am extremely angry at what you did and would like to express my distaste of your actions with some strong language"

On June 23 2012 21:50 Pimmeh wrote:
Fenix was a front line fighter. He would be the first to fight against the Hybrids and it isn't too unlikely that he fell first as well.
Selendis and Mohandar have space ships that they command, and they would be more likely to stay alive.

I'm hoping that Legacy of the Void shows us Fenix and shows us how kickass he actually is!

On June 25 2012 21:06 ShatterZer0 wrote:


You do realize that Fenix was dead as of Kerrigan slaughtering him, right? Edmund Duke died in the same mission? Ringing any bells here?

I just wish they put something like a homage to him in. Adun got "Entaro Adun", Tassadar was so revered that he got "Entaro Tassadar". Surely Fenix deserves something more minor... but he deserves some kind of cultural recompense, right?

On June 25 2012 15:06 Blackknight232 wrote:

i agree with you. If you read the book: Queen Of Blades and Liberty's Crusade(good books btw) it actually shows how everything falls into place for sc2. So you can't blame Raynor for trying to get Kerrigan back even though she did indeed kill Duke and Fenix but of course the Zerg have one purpose and that's to kill the protoss and anything else as well.

KERRIGAN:
You don't even know what you're talking about, Jim!

RAYNOR:
Don't I? I'll see you dead for this, Kerrigan. For Fenix and all the others who got caught between you and your mad quest for power!

KERRIGAN:
Tough talk, Jimmy. But I don't think you have what it takes to be a killer.

RAYNOR:
It may not be tomorrow, darlin'. It may not even happen with an army at my back. But rest assured: I'm the man who's going to kill you some day. I'll be seein' you.

On July 06 2012 19:12 Perscienter wrote:
By the way, look at the difference between SC1 Korhal IV and SC2 Korhal IV (four years).

+ Show Spoiler +

It's like they applied a random-number-generator when they drew it. Though, it's also ripped-off.

On July 10 2012 05:32 IveReturned wrote:



Oh.. I am really stupid to not notice this before....


Blizzard shouldve sticked with original, new korhal looks cool but yeah, 4 years wont clear out all those meteors.

On July 17 2012 10:43 Aztek wrote:
They need to bring him to bring out buried emotions in not as a physical unit, maybe have a carrier called The Fenix (Selendis ship maybe?)

On July 10 2012 05:32 IveReturned wrote:



Oh.. I am really stupid to not notice this before....


Blizzard shouldve sticked with original, new korhal looks cool but yeah, 4 years wont clear out all those meteors.

On July 21 2012 01:18 Nuclease wrote:
Honestly, I don't think that Fenix is all that significant to the story up until now. There will be some mention of him later on, I bet.

And yeah he was awesome.

On July 21 2012 05:16 Perscienter wrote:

My little script counts 47 occurrences of the word 'Fenix' in the Starcraft story.

On July 22 2012 02:54 Perscienter wrote:
He was a major player in the successful attempt to free Tassadar from prison.

On July 22 2012 03:26 Perscienter wrote:
No, he and Raynor led the assault and their forces reached and destroyed Tassadar's stasis cell before the Dark Templars appeared.

On July 22 2012 04:25 cLAN.Anax wrote:
"En Taro Fenix" just doesn't have the same ring to it, I guess.... '>_>

He's tecnically dead, right? I would imagine the best chance would be he's out there with Tassadar or something. *gasp!* What if HE and Tassadar became the Archon in the Zeratul campaign of Wings of Liberty?! :-O

On July 22 2012 04:31 Forikorder wrote:

not technically, is dead

he died once and was manged to be kept alive in a dragoon which was destroyed, theres no coming back a second time

his second death was even after the fall of Aiur when all there facilities were overrun by the Zerg so its impossible that he got rescued

On July 22 2012 04:42 cLAN.Anax wrote:


Yeah, that can be said about Tassadar too, right? If both Tassadar and Fenix died on Aiur, why is Tassadar still "alive?" To be fair, we don't actually know if that's Tassadar in WoL. But if it IS, then Blizz has to explain how he became an Archon. No, he wasn't placed in a Dragoon, but it still needs explaining.

I seriously propose that it's Fenix that he merged with. That or the Overmind; wouldn't put that past Blizz, lol.

1. Whaaaat?! But... that prophecy mission, where you go to Aiur and the Overmind and everything.... He's not an Archon there?!

On July 22 2012 05:55 Forikorder wrote:


no thats not an archon

On July 22 2012 07:48 cLAN.Anax wrote:


Well huh. Sure looks like an Archon. Both there and as the Battle.net icon. StarCraft wiki says he's in an "ethereal" form.... Eh, whatevs.

On July 22 2012 09:16 Forikorder wrote:

he doesnt look like an archon... hes got no junk in his trunk he looks jsut like a protoss thats a bit see through

On July 22 2012 09:36 cLAN.Anax wrote:


Really? O_o Tassadar: + Show Spoiler + Archon: + Show Spoiler +

On June 25 2012 09:12 Forikorder wrote:

i dont really see how it was set up

if someone died every time someone said "ill kill you" humanity would be extinct "ill kill you" jsut means "woa i am extremely angry at what you did and would like to express my distaste of your actions with some strong language"

On July 24 2012 07:38 starfries wrote:

What...

If you stole my lunch money and I say "I'll kill you", then yes, I'll get over it.

If I put my trust in you and you betray me and slaughter my friends in front of me and I say "I'll kill you", it means I'm going to tattoo your damn name and what you did to me on my arm and recite it every night before I go to bed and from that moment onward spend every waking moment of my life making sure yours is as short and painful as possible. Even if we used to date.

How do you manage to lump those together into the same category?