EPT2023 - 2024 Football Thread - Page 27
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RKC
2848 Posts
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WombaT
Northern Ireland26700 Posts
On October 03 2023 02:56 Melliflue wrote: From what I have read, the VAR believed on the on-field ref had given the goal. This was the mistake. The VAR checked that Diaz was onside and told the on-field ref 'Check completed' which the on-field ref naturally assumed Diaz was offside. The VAR didn't realise the mistake until the free kick was taken and by then it was too late. The rules of the game explicitly state that once play has restarted after a VAR check they cannot go back to the VAR. It was a bad mistake but I think the reaction has been a bit OTT. Making the VAR tell the on-field ref onside or offside would have prevented this. If you sack the officials for this, where are you finding better ones? I am a WBA fan and the Championship refs are worse. The abuse received by refs is appalling. The expectations for accuracy and speed are sky high. The tolerance for mistakes is near zero. Nobody suggests a player should be sacked when he misses a penalty. Nobody implies he deliberately missed either. Why would anyone want to be a ref? This explanation makes sense, a giant fuck up sure. Honestly I don’t really care anymore, I’m sick of football fans whining about referees, supposed biases against their club, then now VAR. It’s so relentlessly boring. Accept the occasional mistake, or have a more stop-start game with more accurate decisions. You can’t have both. Many of the most whiny fans got exactly what they wanted in VAR and they just pretend they never advocated its introduction. Because ultimately they don’t want decisions to be correct and neutral, they want to complain about refs or favouritism non-stop. And what’s worse is this atrocious attitude to referees descends all the way down to the base of grass roots football, where they’re increasingly struggling to get volunteers willing to put up with abuse. | ||
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Hildegard
Germany348 Posts
The violence against referees and the scapegoating are unacceptable, however. Generally, ultras all over European football (including the UK) have attitudes I don't support. It starts with things like calling someone who starts a game in the top leagues "shit". No one on that level should ever be called that. It's plain disrespect. And the presumption to threaten and insult people because they don't win as much as the ultras would like is insane. Football's function for society is to replace war and to focus all that rage into a less dangerous place. That works pretty well, but it doesn't excuse the insults, threats and violence. | ||
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{CC}StealthBlue
United States41117 Posts
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Bacillus
Finland2044 Posts
On October 03 2023 03:31 RKC wrote: If the miscommunication excuse is indeed true and irreversible, that makes the entire VAR system even more stupid and beyond help. If such a stupid error can happen, 101 other stupid errors can also happen in future. As far as I can tell, almost every activity that involves decision making over a radio call has implemented some sort of communication protocol that ensures they communicating parties understand each other on key aspects. It's not rocket science by any means. There are loads of tough calls happening in football and mistakes are inevitable. However, this particular error isn't even hard to avoid. This is something they absolutely have to get right if they want to have any credibility whatsoever. | ||
Pandemona
Charlie Sheens House51493 Posts
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RKC
2848 Posts
VAR is not about giving the ref an extra set of brains to review decisions. Instead, the purpose is to give the ref an extra pair of eyes to look out for details all over the pitch. Sadly, turns out that the problem is that EPL refs don't seem to even have half a functioning brain or enough brain power to process images from more than one set of eyes. What doesn't help is silly rigid rules in football about offside, fouls, irreversible decisions no matter what, etc. | ||
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Hildegard
Germany348 Posts
Blood, sweat and cheers: how Union Berlin rose from ruin to Europe’s elite | ||
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Melliflue
United Kingdom1389 Posts
On October 03 2023 03:32 WombaT wrote: This explanation makes sense, a giant fuck up sure. Honestly I don’t really care anymore, I’m sick of football fans whining about referees, supposed biases against their club, then now VAR. It’s so relentlessly boring. Accept the occasional mistake, or have a more stop-start game with more accurate decisions. You can’t have both. Many of the most whiny fans got exactly what they wanted in VAR and they just pretend they never advocated its introduction. Because ultimately they don’t want decisions to be correct and neutral, they want to complain about refs or favouritism non-stop. And what’s worse is this atrocious attitude to referees descends all the way down to the base of grass roots football, where they’re increasingly struggling to get volunteers willing to put up with abuse. I think this incident got a lot more attention because it happened to Liverpool and Klopp. It wouldn't be as big if it happened to, say, Brentford. A few years ago West Brom had a goal ruled out for offside despite appearing to be onside but VAR couldn't overturn it because they couldn't draw the lines. Stuff happens. I don't remember it getting much attention though. I believe there needs to be better protection of referees. From players and managers to start with. It would be great if pundits were less sensationalist but that's how they make their living, and the FA/Premier League have no control over them. I also want a clamp-down on players cheating and making refereeing harder. Exaggerating contact/injuries, tactical fouls, time-wasting, etc. Then you have players aiming to "win" a penalty instead of trying to score a goal. Being a ref is increasingly difficult. They deserve respect for how well they do most of the time instead of focusing on when they screw up. For now though, it sometimes feels like you get the refs you deserve. | ||
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{CC}StealthBlue
United States41117 Posts
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sharkie
Austria18629 Posts
He also sold and loaned out backup players in the summer (it was his decision and not the board) | ||
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gTank
Austria2607 Posts
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Liquid`Drone
Norway28788 Posts
5 out of 8 games saw a comeback. United, copenhagen, Arsenal, Union Berlin and Napoli were all in the lead but ended up losing. Fun evening. | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland26700 Posts
On October 04 2023 04:16 sharkie wrote: I am here in before people call Tuchel having bad luck because of injuries. He keeps playing his main starting elven over and over with almost no break apart from the dfb cup game. Injuries incoming through the season He also sold and loaned out backup players in the summer (it was his decision and not the board) It’s a tricky call, perhaps he could rotate better but some managers do great with having a settled core, Poch is clearly struggling with Chelsea’s ‘buy a new team everyone window’ approach for the last 18 months. If anything I think Arsenal are struggling with the ‘too much depth’ problem this season, whereas Spurs are benefitting from continuity that comes with a lack of it. To pick two examples. Ultimately proof will be in the pudding and especially in the CL specifically, that’ll be the barometer to judge as they’re likely to canter to another Bundesliga. We get it you don’t rate poor Tommy Tuchs :p | ||
GTR
51586 Posts
replace browns with united and that's me right now | ||
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evilfatsh1t
Australia8852 Posts
On October 04 2023 09:56 GTR wrote: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9GcoONykVIM replace browns with united and that's me right now we fucking suck | ||
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sharkie
Austria18629 Posts
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evilfatsh1t
Australia8852 Posts
casemiro is playing pretty badly, eriksen doesnt have the physicality, not having martinez and shaw hurts, rashford is back to his inconsistent and wasteful self and tactically ten hag is getting it wrong because we struggle in midfield too much for someone whose system is supposed to be all about dominance in possession. i do think that if a few things start to click again the team will find rhythm and results will come again, the only problem is the damage to the season has already been done. its going to be another challenge for top 4 and a hopeful fa/carabao cup run. i dont think we will get out of groups this cl | ||
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Liquid`Drone
Norway28788 Posts
On October 04 2023 08:46 WombaT wrote: It’s a tricky call, perhaps he could rotate better but some managers do great with having a settled core, Poch is clearly struggling with Chelsea’s ‘buy a new team everyone window’ approach for the last 18 months. If anything I think Arsenal are struggling with the ‘too much depth’ problem this season, whereas Spurs are benefitting from continuity that comes with a lack of it. To pick two examples. Ultimately proof will be in the pudding and especially in the CL specifically, that’ll be the barometer to judge as they’re likely to canter to another Bundesliga. We get it you don’t rate poor Tommy Tuchs :p Having a settled core means your level is higher, but the risk and impact of injury also increases. It used to be more viable because teams played fewer games (and the intensity was lower), but with 60+ game seasons, rotation is essential if you want to compete in all tournaments. Seems like most top teams are using a settled core for domestic league+cl and rotates elsewhere. If tuchel plays his top guys in early rounds of the german cup that'd be weird to me, otherwise doing that while yelling hoooooold is plenty normal. Rosenborg during the 90s had a trio that basically played every game for more than a decade, while the rest of the team would see 2-3 changes from season to season, but borring injuries or cards, they'd start the same 11 every game. I don't think ive ever seen a team be better compared to the collective quality of the individual players than that Rosenborg team. | ||
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Liquid`Drone
Norway28788 Posts
On October 04 2023 14:09 evilfatsh1t wrote: no. i just think its a combination of form, injury and tactics. casemiro is playing pretty badly, eriksen doesnt have the physicality, not having martinez and shaw hurts, rashford is back to his inconsistent and wasteful self and tactically ten hag is getting it wrong because we struggle in midfield too much for someone whose system is supposed to be all about dominance in possession. i do think that if a few things start to click again the team will find rhythm and results will come again, the only problem is the damage to the season has already been done. its going to be another challenge for top 4 and a hopeful fa/carabao cup run. i dont think we will get out of groups this cl 9 points is still attainable and bayern is reasonably likely to get 18. Both galatasaray and copenhagen look like fairly strong iterations of their respective teams but honestly not getting out of this group is completely unacceptable for a team like United. | ||
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