On August 15 2020 07:09 Dante08 wrote: Actually are people overreacting a little? Yes it the outlook is absolutely shit but with a new coach and 2-3 new signings (where ever they get the money) Barcelona can be back to competing again. They still have very good players in De Jong, Ter Steven, Lenglet, Ansu Fati, Griezmann, Dembele etc.
And of course Messi. But if there was any indication he was going to leave this season would be it.
First priority should be revamping the defense and finding a Suarez replacement.
They don’t have money in the pot to do the rebuilding job needed because they’ve pissed it away over years of completely disjointed recruitment.
It’ll be tricky given the talent that has value even in a Covid deflated market is also the talent they need to rebuild around.
I don’t think they’ll need a huge amount to still be competitive in La Liga but to get back to competing with Europe’s elite looks quite a while off.
That’s true, they can probably still be top 2-3 La Liga with minimal recruitment but competing for CL looks to be years away. It really is rebuilding mode for Barca now. And one can argue it has been that way for years (since Neymar and Enrique).
Obviously talented players can find a way, feels a weird squad.
Feels you have a bunch of guys tailor made for the so-called ‘tiki taka’ and a bunch of other blokes who would excel in a lightning fast counter-attacking side.
Enrique’s MSN side was a bit in the middle between a counter focused side and the near-dogma of Pep, bit less possession based, bit more direct to accentuate the strengths of that phenomenal front three.
Feels unlikely because more than almost any club Barca are tethered to a certain way of playing. If this board survives I see there being 0 chance of them going ‘we’ve hung on, our next trick is changing the Barca way’. If a new board comes in it’ll be in a ‘return to the Barca way’ too no doubt.
There are some positives, I think De Jong has shown glimpses of what he can do, but an 8-2 shellacking may precipitate the clearout that’s actually needed of the old guard. De Jong showed his best stuff playing where Busquets does and Barca might be able to bite the bullet and get the best out of this asset.
It’s almost better to get demolished than to go out in a tight one as a proper rebuild is easier to sell.
Messi is so unbelievably good technically in tight spaces and with his close control and dribbling, a wondergoal every other game etc that his passing range is almost forgotten. I think they should experiment with him playing deeper. He’s going to have to eventually.
This is of course assuming Barca don’t manage much additional recruitment, just considering the pieces at play now
Messi is of course Messi, he’s a luxury player how which is fine by me, I kind of miss when more teams had luxury players! Do you keep him in the front 3 or drop him deeper? Where are Barca in theory stocked?
You drop him deeper and you can play Griezman in one of his two best positions, and you have a fearsomely fast potential front line with Fati and Dembele if he can keep fit. That could be pretty potent.
But then you have a midfield of De Jong, Pjanic and Messi. Possibly defensively a bit lacking :p
This is the maddening thing even theorycrafting with Barca, their squad acquisition makes almost zero sense.
Coutinho was great as a 10, or off the left of the front 3 for Liverpool. There wasn’t really a space for him given existing personnel. Griezmann was fantastic either playing off a 9 as a second striker, or playing from the right in a 3, in counter-attacking sides. I recall a comment from a football journalist on this saying that he’s somehow joined the only club in world football who have a guy in Messi who is better in both positions! Dembele has been unlucky with injuries to be fair.
This isn’t even counting the multitude of transfers below the huge fee mark that haven’t come off.
On August 15 2020 07:09 Dante08 wrote: Actually are people overreacting a little? Yes it the outlook is absolutely shit but with a new coach and 2-3 new signings (where ever they get the money) Barcelona can be back to competing again. They still have very good players in De Jong, Ter Steven, Lenglet, Ansu Fati, Griezmann, Dembele etc.
And of course Messi. But if there was any indication he was going to leave this season would be it.
First priority should be revamping the defense and finding a Suarez replacement.
They don’t have money in the pot to do the rebuilding job needed because they’ve pissed it away over years of completely disjointed recruitment.
It’ll be tricky given the talent that has value even in a Covid deflated market is also the talent they need to rebuild around.
I don’t think they’ll need a huge amount to still be competitive in La Liga but to get back to competing with Europe’s elite looks quite a while off.
That’s true, they can probably still be top 2-3 La Liga with minimal recruitment but competing for CL looks to be years away. It really is rebuilding mode for Barca now. And one can argue it has been that way for years (since Neymar and Enrique).
Obviously talented players can find a way, feels a weird squad.
Feels you have a bunch of guys tailor made for the so-called ‘tiki taka’ and a bunch of other blokes who would excel in a lightning fast counter-attacking side.
Enrique’s MSN side was a bit in the middle between a counter focused side and the near-dogma of Pep, bit less possession based, bit more direct to accentuate the strengths of that phenomenal front three.
Feels unlikely because more than almost any club Barca are tethered to a certain way of playing. If this board survives I see there being 0 chance of them going ‘we’ve hung on, our next trick is changing the Barca way’. If a new board comes in it’ll be in a ‘return to the Barca way’ too no doubt.
There are some positives, I think De Jong has shown glimpses of what he can do, but an 8-2 shellacking may precipitate the clearout that’s actually needed of the old guard. De Jong showed his best stuff playing where Busquets does and Barca might be able to bite the bullet and get the best out of this asset.
It’s almost better to get demolished than to go out in a tight one as a proper rebuild is easier to sell.
Messi is so unbelievably good technically in tight spaces and with his close control and dribbling, a wondergoal every other game etc that his passing range is almost forgotten. I think they should experiment with him playing deeper. He’s going to have to eventually.
This is of course assuming Barca don’t manage much additional recruitment, just considering the pieces at play now
Messi is of course Messi, he’s a luxury player how which is fine by me, I kind of miss when more teams had luxury players! Do you keep him in the front 3 or drop him deeper? Where are Barca in theory stocked?
You drop him deeper and you can play Griezman in one of his two best positions, and you have a fearsomely fast potential front line with Fati and Dembele if he can keep fit. That could be pretty potent.
But then you have a midfield of De Jong, Pjanic and Messi. Possibly defensively a bit lacking :p
This is the maddening thing even theorycrafting with Barca, their squad acquisition makes almost zero sense.
Coutinho was great as a 10, or off the left of the front 3 for Liverpool. There wasn’t really a space for him given existing personnel. Griezmann was fantastic either playing off a 9 as a second striker, or playing from the right in a 3, in counter-attacking sides. I recall a comment from a football journalist on this saying that he’s somehow joined the only club in world football who have a guy in Messi who is better in both positions! Dembele has been unlucky with injuries to be fair.
This isn’t even counting the multitude of transfers below the huge fee mark that haven’t come off.
Don’t really agree Messi is a luxury player, without him Barca would be completely mediocre the past few years.
I seriously think this team isn’t as bad as people make it out to be, yes they have spent poorly but with 3-4 changes they could be dangerous again.
Well they would be, I guess my definition of a luxury player is a player so talented you can just accommodate their weaknesses because their talent merits it.
It’s not a criticism, if anything it’s a compliment. They’re a bit rare these days at the top level though. Last I can really think of is Juan Roman Riquelme, one of my favourite players ever at Villarreal.
I was not cheering for Barca at all but I'm thinking that somehow they will have the worst result of the quarter while being the best team out of the 4 that are out...
A bit like when a guy got 4-0 in the GSL final while being one of the best at the moment in the world...
On August 15 2020 07:09 Dante08 wrote: Actually are people overreacting a little? Yes it the outlook is absolutely shit but with a new coach and 2-3 new signings (where ever they get the money) Barcelona can be back to competing again. They still have very good players in De Jong, Ter Steven, Lenglet, Ansu Fati, Griezmann, Dembele etc.
And of course Messi. But if there was any indication he was going to leave this season would be it.
First priority should be revamping the defense and finding a Suarez replacement.
They don’t have money in the pot to do the rebuilding job needed because they’ve pissed it away over years of completely disjointed recruitment.
It’ll be tricky given the talent that has value even in a Covid deflated market is also the talent they need to rebuild around.
I don’t think they’ll need a huge amount to still be competitive in La Liga but to get back to competing with Europe’s elite looks quite a while off.
That’s true, they can probably still be top 2-3 La Liga with minimal recruitment but competing for CL looks to be years away. It really is rebuilding mode for Barca now. And one can argue it has been that way for years (since Neymar and Enrique).
Obviously talented players can find a way, feels a weird squad.
Feels you have a bunch of guys tailor made for the so-called ‘tiki taka’ and a bunch of other blokes who would excel in a lightning fast counter-attacking side.
Enrique’s MSN side was a bit in the middle between a counter focused side and the near-dogma of Pep, bit less possession based, bit more direct to accentuate the strengths of that phenomenal front three.
Feels unlikely because more than almost any club Barca are tethered to a certain way of playing. If this board survives I see there being 0 chance of them going ‘we’ve hung on, our next trick is changing the Barca way’. If a new board comes in it’ll be in a ‘return to the Barca way’ too no doubt.
There are some positives, I think De Jong has shown glimpses of what he can do, but an 8-2 shellacking may precipitate the clearout that’s actually needed of the old guard. De Jong showed his best stuff playing where Busquets does and Barca might be able to bite the bullet and get the best out of this asset.
It’s almost better to get demolished than to go out in a tight one as a proper rebuild is easier to sell.
Messi is so unbelievably good technically in tight spaces and with his close control and dribbling, a wondergoal every other game etc that his passing range is almost forgotten. I think they should experiment with him playing deeper. He’s going to have to eventually.
This is of course assuming Barca don’t manage much additional recruitment, just considering the pieces at play now
Messi is of course Messi, he’s a luxury player how which is fine by me, I kind of miss when more teams had luxury players! Do you keep him in the front 3 or drop him deeper? Where are Barca in theory stocked?
You drop him deeper and you can play Griezman in one of his two best positions, and you have a fearsomely fast potential front line with Fati and Dembele if he can keep fit. That could be pretty potent.
But then you have a midfield of De Jong, Pjanic and Messi. Possibly defensively a bit lacking :p
This is the maddening thing even theorycrafting with Barca, their squad acquisition makes almost zero sense.
Coutinho was great as a 10, or off the left of the front 3 for Liverpool. There wasn’t really a space for him given existing personnel. Griezmann was fantastic either playing off a 9 as a second striker, or playing from the right in a 3, in counter-attacking sides. I recall a comment from a football journalist on this saying that he’s somehow joined the only club in world football who have a guy in Messi who is better in both positions! Dembele has been unlucky with injuries to be fair.
This isn’t even counting the multitude of transfers below the huge fee mark that haven’t come off.
Don’t really agree Messi is a luxury player, without him Barca would be completely mediocre the past few years.
I seriously think this team isn’t as bad as people make it out to be, yes they have spent poorly but with 3-4 changes they could be dangerous again.
No, player changes aren't enough. We have players coming out saying they didn't train enough at Barça. De Jong had to hire a personal trainer to compensate for it. Pique says he sleeps 5h a night. So many things pointing at the team not making enough efforts training, and when you see them having 0 intensity on the pitch, it just confirms those things.
You can't just blame players because in any club players with such power and freedom will do the exact same thing. Responsibles are the ones above starting with the coach, and more importantly the board, which decides who the coach is and supports him against players' power. They haven't done that, Setien is never going to get players' respect and even if they put someone like Pochettino it'll be the same. The direction knows they only have one year left, why would they suddenly learn and change everything?
Change the direction, sign a good coach and support him and the whole club's philosophy (whatever you decide it to be), and then sign 3-4 players. Then it will work. Then sign a few others the year after because there are too many old ones now. But I don't mind seeing a weaker Barça for one year because they're rebuilding. Right now, even with signings you know it's not going anywhere as there's no project. Unless there are early elections right now, next season will be for absolutely nothing.
On August 15 2020 18:56 120720 wrote: I can't even start to think how Lyon could win vs City.
Defend all game, pray Sterling and co. miss everything like against Madrid, and score on your one chance. It's not like Rudy Garcia is a good coach that can come up with cool tactics.
Also this, Barcelona is probably one of the worst big teams at signing players for the past like 10 years, it's incredibly how bad they are, like 1.000m euros.
De Jong has been awful so far, same for Grizmann, Dembele i can't even talk about him because he might not even exist
De Jong is the only one I found good yesterday and since Setien started, he's been the best midfielder. He's just in a bad team. I would keep him at all cost. Can't say the same about Griezmann, and I wish Dembele could have a good staff behind him to see if he can play more than 2 games before injuring himself. The fact that the team doesn't train properly probably hasn't helped him much in that regard.
For Sure, first season for De Jong, same with Griezmann, can't be too harsh on them but still... for the money you can and have to ask for more.
But at the end, Setien is such a terrible coach.
Barcelona keeps dreaming about something that ended 9 years ago, they never had another plan, they never thought about what came next after guardiola left, they never had a plan for when messi get old and starts to show signs of weakness. They just sit on a gold mine and let it dry like there was no tomorrow.
They keep looking for random managers that have that "Barcelona DNA", and what is that shit anyway? do 100 passes and never do something meaningful? i hate that phrase, is just bullshit that people spill to live on their great years (which RM destroyed in like 5 years)
RM won 4 CL but never reached the level Barça had. Yes it was glorious but I don't think they can ever be considered as one of the best football teams in history.
You're right that they've been going downhill since 2011, but that's exactly when this direction took over and decided to go against the club's identity. It doesn't mean that the identity is wrong, it means it's been done wrong. You're for Madrid, one of the most pragmatic clubs in the world, I don't expect you to understand the concept of football philosophy. If you think tiki taka is boring, then I can't do anything for you. City is a beauty and they play like Barça did, a bit more direct maybe. It means it can be reproduced, and it can still be successful nowadays.
This "do 100 passes and never do something meaningful" only brought a few champions leagues, a world cup, 2 euros, and 2 of the most dominant club and national teams that ever existed.
I don't care about Madrid, neither Barcelona to be honest, i don't care what a team did 10 years ago, im not sure you remember but there were super dark times before Messi/Iniesta/Xavi stepped in. and they didnt play tiki taka like you say.
You are pretty desilusional if you think what i meant is that teams needs to be "pragmatic", im just saying, people change, football change, styles changed, and Barcelona did NOTHING to adapt, they even let Neymar go ffs.
If Barcelona fans keep riding "we were the best team ever 10 years ago, we will do that again, we just to struck lighting in a bottle twitce", then i fear this was the last good bit of Barcelona we ever saw.
And let me tell you something, i HATE when people think that "beatiful football" is just one way, every system is beatiful, Atletico de Madrid lost because they have been awful for some time with the same system, when they won the league and got the UCL finals, they were also playing beatiful football
Stop thinking there's one possible way to play football, that mentality got barcelona where is it now, PSG plays a much more direct approach (3-4 passes into Neymar/Mbappe and try to score) but they still play solid/beatiful football, Leipzig does a bit more like in the middle of Barcelona/PSG, and they play sublime.
You're just twisting my words. I don't care how teams play, I just know that Barça was successful a certain way and has built their whole system around a philosophy and that it works for them. As long as your whole club follows the same line, you will have results.
Most agree that they've been doing badly for a long time now, just read my comments. I even asked for big changes 2 or 3 seasons ago. But it's not because a certain board has done badly that the next can't fix it. Barça has enough financial capacity (usually, as long as they recover from their recent mistakes), enough attraction power, enough talent produced in house, and a clear enough gameplan to strive for years and years. Yeah maybe they'll only get one generation like that one, but they called Cruijff's team the dream team, I don't think people envisioned an even better one after that and look what happened.
Guardiola coached that team, but most players came from a system that was in place far before him. And if you look at Leipzig or Atalanta this year, Ajax last year, or Liverpool the last couple of years, you should know that a system matters more than the individuals. Barça has a good system if done well that has brought success for 30 years, with a few bad periods (usually with bad directions), I don't know why they would need to change it. I have yet to see this "Cruijffism" fail when applied correctly, so I don't know why it should be changed.
EPT
