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On July 27 2024 01:50 Lmui wrote:
I'd call it sloppy more than dangerous.
Lewis easily had the move covered just by continuing straight for another fraction of a second before turning in.
It was easily avoidable for sure.
Those were my initial thoughts as well but the onboard clearly shows him steering into Max while he was already fully alongside him, that's a bit weird no?
Btw did anyone else notice Lewis doing the same thing as Max did in Austria; putting the car in a slightly different direction before breaking to circumvent the moving under breaking "rule" with the aim of closing the gap? Max tried to narrow the gap on the outside, not the inside, but it's the same principle. Definitely on the edge of the rules racing, which is great, but it's sad that when Max does it people are begging for penalties while otherwise it apparently isn't even noticed.
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On July 27 2024 02:28 Penev wrote:Show nested quote +On July 27 2024 01:50 Lmui wrote:
I'd call it sloppy more than dangerous.
Lewis easily had the move covered just by continuing straight for another fraction of a second before turning in.
It was easily avoidable for sure. Those were my initial thoughts as well but the onboard clearly shows him steering into Max while he was already fully alongside him, that's a bit weird no? Btw did anyone else notice Lewis doing the same thing as Max did in Austria; putting the car in a slightly different direction before breaking to circumvent the moving under breaking "rule" with the aim of closing the gap? Max tried to narrow the gap on the outside, not the inside, but it's the same principle. Definitely on the edge of the rules racing, which is great, but it's sad that when Max does it people are begging for penalties while otherwise it apparently isn't even noticed.
So there isn't actually a rule that says you can't move under braking. It's a bit of a myth. The rule says
"When defending, there must be no change in direction by the defending car, after the deceleration phase has commenced, except to follow the racing line."
The last part there is the important bit. You are allowed to move "to follow the racing line". FIA did ban moving under braking for a short period of time in 2017, because of Max. However, the year after, they lifted the ban again. So moving in to defend the inside, and then moving back out to take the racing line, is actually completely fine (and now commonly done by everyone on the grid). The caveat is that you do need to leave room for your opponent. This is the bit Max failed at in Austria.
The mistake Hamilton did was simply just not avoiding a competitor's car. Otherwise he was of course free to turn in where he did
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On July 27 2024 04:27 Excludos wrote:Show nested quote +On July 27 2024 02:28 Penev wrote:On July 27 2024 01:50 Lmui wrote:
I'd call it sloppy more than dangerous.
Lewis easily had the move covered just by continuing straight for another fraction of a second before turning in.
It was easily avoidable for sure. Those were my initial thoughts as well but the onboard clearly shows him steering into Max while he was already fully alongside him, that's a bit weird no? Btw did anyone else notice Lewis doing the same thing as Max did in Austria; putting the car in a slightly different direction before breaking to circumvent the moving under breaking "rule" with the aim of closing the gap? Max tried to narrow the gap on the outside, not the inside, but it's the same principle. Definitely on the edge of the rules racing, which is great, but it's sad that when Max does it people are begging for penalties while otherwise it apparently isn't even noticed. So there isn't actually a rule that says you can't move under braking. It's a bit of a myth. The rule says "When defending, there must be no change in direction by the defending car, after the deceleration phase has commenced, except to follow the racing line."
Yep, I know, hence the quotes.
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Seriously, wtf is up with Norris and his dogshit starts? How is this even possible, race after race?
edit: Also hilarious how Norris and Max always ends up on the same part of the track. I swear these two are magnets to each other
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Fantastic race, was not expecting George winning this one with the one stop. Great driving from him.
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I wish they'd reconsider the changes for '26, we have 4 teams so close together now.
It even likely lost us an engine supplier (Renault).
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On July 28 2024 23:30 Penev wrote:
I wish they'd reconsider the changes for '26, we have 4 teams so close together now.
It even likely lost us an engine supplier (Renault).
Not likely, it did. Renault has confirmed they're pulling out.
But yeah, it seems like it's often this way. The last year or two before regulation changes end up being the closest. It's almost weird how quickly it happened this time. The other teams really closed the seemingly insurmountable gap to RB in only 2 years. Last time it took a nearly a decade
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On July 28 2024 23:35 Excludos wrote:Show nested quote +On July 28 2024 23:30 Penev wrote:
I wish they'd reconsider the changes for '26, we have 4 teams so close together now.
It even likely lost us an engine supplier (Renault). Not likely, it did. Renault has confirmed they're pulling out. But yeah, it seems like it's often this way. The last year or two before regulation changes end up being the closest. It's almost weird how quickly it happened this time. The other teams really closed the seemingly insurmountable gap to RB in only 2 years. Last time it took a nearly a decade
Last time it was predominately because of the engine change which idd took a long time for the others to overcome (legally). The new changes have a PU change as well, let's hope it's not as bad as last time.
Edit: Ugh, booing and people shouting Oscar during the national anthem.
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United States10487 Posts
Spa is usually a boring race unless there's rain but then it gets super dangerous. I know Eau Rouge is such an iconic straight but at some point do we consider pulling this race from the calendar?
Great drive from Russell and amazing call to make this a 1 stop, did a great job managing the tires and then defending against Lewis. Really solid work from Merc this race to get the 1-2.
Perez masterclass, P2 to P8 while also holding up his teammate and giving George DRS to break away from Max on the straights and put him outside of DRS range, then as soon as George gets around him, he went straight into the pits and couldn't at least give Max a DRS boost down the straight.
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Oh dear: George Russell is under investigation for being under weight post-race
Edit: Unsurprisingly he's disqualified. Poor guy.
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That's fucking harsh on George after a fantastic drive!
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Oof, that's genuinely painful, after winning a race in such a great way
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On July 29 2024 01:04 FlaShFTW wrote:
Spa is usually a boring race unless there's rain but then it gets super dangerous. I know Eau Rouge is such an iconic straight but at some point do we consider pulling this race from the calendar?
Biggest issue with Spa isn't even the straight, but the blind crest leading up to it, Raidillon. Especially as a crash at the top can leave people vulnerable to someone else coming up behind at high speeds, who hasn't seen the situation yet, leaving no time to react.
I don't think Spa needs to be removed from the calendar though, it's not that bad, but finding solutions to mitigate the issue is definitively necessary. They've already done that last year by changing the runoff area around the top, and using a different type of barrier that doesn't spit the car back out into the road.
The real issue with Spa is that they're broke. They're barely scraping by, and the amenities are truly terrible. It's usually a great race to watch, but a terrible one to be a spectator at. F1s strategy of upping their prices to the point where only Middle East and American tracks can afford to host them is doing a number on several historical European tracks. Unless something changes, I don't foresee Spa being on the calendar for much longer.
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it was a pretty boring race, what made it interesting was the strategies, i guess they wanted to tone it down reducing the DRS zone and changing the asphalt; Russell saw it how it was, Sainz and Norris and maybe Piastri could have done the same but did not take the risk, he did, so even though the penalty, congrats to him for finishing P1;
dissapointing that Norris could not at least overtake Verstappen, i now fully believe Piastri should be the number1 McLaren driver
Edit:i guess it was fun with all the battles and overtaking of the backmarkers, a lot of actual on track action and overtakes from there
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United States10487 Posts
Poor Russell... drove a fantastic race only to be DSQ. Merc really fucking over their drivers like this (Lewis at COTA last year).
Hamilton was considering a 1 stopper too but the team brought him in. I think he also saw how little the tires were degrading when he was on his first hard stint and had suspicions a 1 stop was best but ultimately chose the safe 2 stop option. He looked a little pissed in the post-race interview where he mentions the tires were good all day and that 1 stop was the right call.
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On July 30 2024 00:36 FlaShFTW wrote:
Poor Russell... drove a fantastic race only to be DSQ. Merc really fucking over their drivers like this (Lewis at COTA last year).
Hamilton was considering a 1 stopper too but the team brought him in. I think he also saw how little the tires were degrading when he was on his first hard stint and had suspicions a 1 stop was best but ultimately chose the safe 2 stop option. He looked a little pissed in the post-race interview where he mentions the tires were good all day and that 1 stop was the right call.
Yeah, real shame. And by all calculations, the fact thay he went for a 1-stopper, wearing his tyres more, and Spa not allowing for a cooldown lap to pick up marbles, is likely why he was under as well.
Honestly the car shouldn't be weighted with the wheels in the first place imo. It's the remnants of an old rule, and only serves to limit possible strategies. If a team wants to run their tyres to the cords, they should be able to, without having to worry about DSQ for weight reasons
In other news. RBR is finally going to "Look at the Perez situation", but in my eyes it's just a tiny bit too late, as their only real option, Sainz, just signed with Williams
Edit: Oh, seems I haven't been paying attention. RBR is reconfirming Perez...for now. Again, can't help but think they just don't have a choice at this point. There are no real alternatives lined up for them
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United States10487 Posts
On July 30 2024 09:38 Excludos wrote:Show nested quote +On July 30 2024 00:36 FlaShFTW wrote:
Poor Russell... drove a fantastic race only to be DSQ. Merc really fucking over their drivers like this (Lewis at COTA last year).
Hamilton was considering a 1 stopper too but the team brought him in. I think he also saw how little the tires were degrading when he was on his first hard stint and had suspicions a 1 stop was best but ultimately chose the safe 2 stop option. He looked a little pissed in the post-race interview where he mentions the tires were good all day and that 1 stop was the right call. Yeah, real shame. And by all calculations, the fact thay he went for a 1-stopper, wearing his tyres more, and Spa not allowing for a cooldown lap to pick up marbles, is likely why he was under as well. Honestly the car shouldn't be weighted with the wheels in the first place imo. It's the remnants of an old rule, and only serves to limit possible strategies. If a team wants to run their tyres to the cords, they should be able to, without having to worry about DSQ for weight reasons In other news. RBR is finally going to "Look at the Perez situation", but in my eyes it's just a tiny bit too late, as their only real option, Sainz, just signed with Williams Edit: Oh, seems I haven't been paying attention. RBR is reconfirming Perez...for now. Again, can't help but think they just don't have a choice at this point. There are no real alternatives lined up for them
Was the weight really as a result of the tires loosing too much rubber? 1.5kg seems like a lot. But agreed that the weight rule should not include tires anyways since those can change. Also what happens when a car loses a piece of bodywork or something from a collision? Do they just not count that either or do they just say, yeah, you're missing some weight so we'll estimate the missing weight.
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On July 31 2024 02:58 FlaShFTW wrote:Show nested quote +On July 30 2024 09:38 Excludos wrote:On July 30 2024 00:36 FlaShFTW wrote:
Poor Russell... drove a fantastic race only to be DSQ. Merc really fucking over their drivers like this (Lewis at COTA last year).
Hamilton was considering a 1 stopper too but the team brought him in. I think he also saw how little the tires were degrading when he was on his first hard stint and had suspicions a 1 stop was best but ultimately chose the safe 2 stop option. He looked a little pissed in the post-race interview where he mentions the tires were good all day and that 1 stop was the right call. Yeah, real shame. And by all calculations, the fact thay he went for a 1-stopper, wearing his tyres more, and Spa not allowing for a cooldown lap to pick up marbles, is likely why he was under as well. Honestly the car shouldn't be weighted with the wheels in the first place imo. It's the remnants of an old rule, and only serves to limit possible strategies. If a team wants to run their tyres to the cords, they should be able to, without having to worry about DSQ for weight reasons In other news. RBR is finally going to "Look at the Perez situation", but in my eyes it's just a tiny bit too late, as their only real option, Sainz, just signed with Williams Edit: Oh, seems I haven't been paying attention. RBR is reconfirming Perez...for now. Again, can't help but think they just don't have a choice at this point. There are no real alternatives lined up for them Was the weight really as a result of the tires loosing too much rubber? 1.5kg seems like a lot. But agreed that the weight rule should not include tires anyways since those can change. Also what happens when a car loses a piece of bodywork or something from a collision? Do they just not count that either or do they just say, yeah, you're missing some weight so we'll estimate the missing weight.
Not my calculations, but smarter people than me found that 1.5kg only represents about 0.3mm of rubber across the 4 tyres. The tyres combine weight 40kg brand new. So likely he would have been well within the limit had he not done the 1-stop, but then, of course, he wouldn't have finished first either.
When you lose bodywork, you are allowed to swap it out 1-for-1 with identical parts before official weighing takes place. People have suggested that teams should be allowed to change out the tyres in the same way; they are already allowed to do that if they're using rain-tyres (As slicks weighs more).
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The people that thought up these rules are rather dumb as well. Let's kill the euphoria for thousands of fans because of some stupid post-race regulations. Just weigh that car without tyres or fuel before the race and you're set! The weight of the driver is already compensated at this stage, should be easy to fix the weight of the car at this point as well.
Driving around the track to pick up loose pieces of rubber in order to make weight just feels ridiculous. This sport is over-regulated as it is...
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On July 31 2024 07:33 aseq wrote:
The people that thought up these rules are rather dumb as well. Let's kill the euphoria for thousands of fans because of some stupid post-race regulations. Just weigh that car without tyres or fuel before the race and you're set! The weight of the driver is already compensated at this stage, should be easy to fix the weight of the car at this point as well.
Driving around the track to pick up loose pieces of rubber in order to make weight just feels ridiculous. This sport is over-regulated as it is...
This specific rule is a leftover from when teams brought their own tyres, necessitating counting them as part of the car. It simply hasn't come up all that often for them to bother changing it. Not saying I don't agree, just giving a history on how it came to be.
Knowing FIA though, they won't bother changing it unless it happens another 5 times
Weighing the car empty in Parc Fermé before the race would be the simplest solution, yeah, but then they won't necessarily catch anyone trying to cheat by adding weights before weighing and removing them before driving out, which is the main reason they keep doing random weight tests during qualy, and race (And sometimes even during practice, for whatever reason)
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EPT
