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On July 09 2024 00:33 xM(Z wrote:
but Lewis' engineers gave him the red tires and it was a good decision, and Lando' engineers gave him the red tires and it was a bad decision ...
car vs car, the McLaren was the superior one so what happened?(sure there were those 5ish seconds that Lewis had on Lando but still...).
(i don't think anyone doubts that Piastri was sacrificed for nothing)
Edit: Piastri was also asked about the tire choice and he chose mediums
Lewis didn't have mediums left. It was a decision between softs or hards, and it was reasonable to question if the hards would fire up in time in the cold and damp track, as they're stored in lower temperatures than the other two sets. Lewis' team's decision to go on softs was reasonable because he didn't have mediums left; Lando did.
And in car vs car, the McLaren wasn't superior this weekend in dry conditions. Mercedes qualified 1-2 after all. Putting on the same sets of compounds and tell him to go chase a 7 times world champion who's 3 seconds up the road, in a tyre-preservation fight, was always going to fail.
Piastri was never told "Hey, we could bolt on the boring choice and save P2, or if we take softs and go chase down P1!" It's straight up misinformation, and to repeat myself, there's not a single driver on the grid who would say no to such a leading question. And to repeat myself again, Lando should never have been given the choice in the first place. The fact that the other two combined 10 championships didn't get asked to make that decision should tell you all about how frikkin' stupid it is.
McLaren learned nothing from Sochi
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Ok, so because how F1 decided to lay over their radio chats on the broadcast, we were all misled about a very crucial detail: Lando didn't actually choose his own tyre.
Transcript:
Land Norris: "We need to box, the soft is better now... any slick tyre"
Will Joseph: "Okay, so we can choose a medium to cover people like Verstappen, or choose a soft to cover people like Hamilton"
LN: "Hamilton. I think Hamilton, or do you think medium? I don't mind"
WJ: "We're going soft. Box this lap please, box this lap"
Compared to the other side of the garage:
Tom Stallard: "Competitor cars do not have medium, currently we think medium is the best tyre, 15 laps to go"
Oscar Piastri: "Yes, yes. It's the best."
TS: "Ol, Hamilton has pitted, Hamilton has pitted"
OP: "I think box, I think box"
TS: "Copy, box, box"
OP: "Copy"
So much cleaner. No faffing about, or needless discussions. Oscar is sharing what he sees, Tom shares what he knows, and tells Oscar what to do. Meanwhile, on the Lando side of the garage, they seem a lot more paralyzed to make any decision, ending up reactive instead of proactive.
It also sheds some light on why they chose the worst tyre to begin with, using words like "cover". They fully expected to come out ahead of Hamilton, and thought softs would be the safe choice as they didn't believe Hamilton could pass Norris on the same compound. Showing, yet again, an F1 team that believes position to be more important than a massive pace advantage, a baffling mistake Mercedes and Ferrari have also done numerous times in the last few years.
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ok, so i'll give you that: indecision killed Landos' run, and reaffirmation(of tire choice) from Piastris, had him leave the garage with the better tire. i don't think i can do better.
Will Joseph: "Okay, so we can choose a medium to cover people like Verstappen, or choose a soft to cover people like Hamilton" , means - we believe the best tire vs Verstapen is medium, and the best tire vs Lewis is soft; then Lando had to make a call based on his own 3 days of rubber burring track experience, and say medium. he didn't.
i don't believe that if Lando would've made the call for mediums, the garage would've fitted him with softs.
(i missed Lewis not having mediums so that was a good point)
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United States10253 Posts
On July 09 2024 00:33 xM(Z wrote:
but Lewis' engineers gave him the red tires and it was a good decision, and Lando' engineers gave him the red tires and it was a bad decision ...
car vs car, the McLaren was the superior one so what happened?(sure there were those 5ish seconds that Lewis had on Lando but still...).
(i don't think anyone doubts that Piastri was sacrificed for nothing)
Edit: Piastri was also asked about the tire choice and he chose mediums
Lewis is a tire whisperer, one of the greatest in history to manage tire life. Lando doesn't have that skill, and he needed to catch Lewis, so he had to push his softs. With 3 seconds to catch, Lando was never making it to the end of the race. He was either going to catch and pass Lewis and defend for his life, or he was guaranteed to lose a place to Max on hards.
On July 08 2024 13:55 Excludos wrote:Show nested quote +On July 08 2024 08:50 FlaShFTW wrote:
LEWISSSS GET INNNNNN!!!
This race still shows Lando's inexperience as a championship-level driver. The car is great, best car in the field right now, he's got the speed to win races, but his decision making and tire management is lacking. I'm sure he's learning a lot from this season and hopefully if Mclaren can be as good if not better next season, he might be in contention for a WDC. What do you mean decision making? His engineer is setting him up for failure by asking "Should we take mediums and cover Max, or take softs and go for Lewis?" When mediums was the obvious right choice to go for Lewis as well. Lando made the choice based on the information given to him, which was straigt up false. Not that the choice should have been left up to Lando in the first place. This is not common behaviour, and something McLaren needs to stop. Their drivers don't sit on the same information they do, so they should be making these choices. Notice how often Mercedes overrules Hamilton when it comes to these decisions. They're not always right, but at least they're making decisions and not just leaving it to the driver. And that's just the last of the many many wrong choices McLaren made in that race. Their pit stop strategies was a masterclass in making every bad decision possible in a race. I don't see how any of this reflects on Lando
As a driver, you should also know your own limitations. While the question was definitely a leading one when asked, Lando should know that trying to stretch softs for those 14 laps was never going to work when he was chasing Lewis. He needs to also be able to make his own strategy calls. It wasn't like the garage straight up said, you need softs. They still gave him the choice.
In terms of who's calling what tire, I think discussion has come around to: drivers make the call when switching between wets and slicks, team strategy makes the calls for what type of slicks to put on. For sure Mclaren should've been firmer with Lando on which tire they wanted him on and not give him the leading question, and they'll learn from it. Lando should also learn about his own tire management skills and be able to overrule when he knows for sure it's a bad call (Sainz for example has had to learn from shitty Ferrari strategies and make his own judgment calls).
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Hi everyone, a quick question. Is the thread dedicated to f1 actual Racing or can it cover other f1 related things?
Specifically:
- soon to be released f1 manager game
- yt f1 comedy sketches (this one not sure if it will be seen as promotion/advertising but im not related to the person i just find his animations funny)
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It's not like this thread is falling off its hinges drowning in discussions, so I don't see anything particularly wrong with stretching the topics a little bit. Connor Moore has been shared her a few times before as well
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Agreed. There's only a couple dozen posts on race weekend, and then silence in between, doesn't hurt to have other F1 stuff in here.
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Ok thanks for the replies.
So in that regard, anyone of you guys usually plays the f1 manager games?
Ive played motorsport manager om steam a lot way back when it was released but then gradually stopped as it was always just outsmarting AI on tyre and fuel management. I was now going to give it another go but saw there is an official game now that is pretty similar but has the licenses, thus you are not required to find mods to help out in that regard.
For 2024 it seems frontier listened to the community and added the driver academy for future talent development which was missing in prior years.
Anyone has any feedback on the previous editions?
As for my other topic, ive been watching recently on YouTube lollipopman and his f1 comedy animations. I find it fun. It may not be for everyone and there are some long standing jokes from the channel (piastri only says oscar as an example) or more common ones like ferrari's plans backfiring or verstappen never getting dotd. Its light and fun if anyone wants to check it out.
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I did a little motorsport manager a while back, but got bored of it once I found out how to win pretty easily. I mostly just manage myself in iRacing these days, which is enough of a chore because my driver (me) is absolutely useless.
Lollipop man is fun and all, but a bit repetitive. I usually watch it after particularly spicy or meme worthy races
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On July 18 2024 15:11 Excludos wrote:
I did a little motorsport manager a while back, but got bored of it once I found out how to win pretty easily. I mostly just manage myself in iRacing these days, which is enough of a chore because my driver (me) is absolutely useless.
Lollipop man is fun and all, but a bit repetitive. I usually watch it after particularly spicy or meme worthy races
Would love to get a proper setup for my sim racing but that is not on the cards for now.
As for lollipopman i recently started so it feels fresh still  but i get your point
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On July 18 2024 16:01 KobraKay wrote:Show nested quote +On July 18 2024 15:11 Excludos wrote:
I did a little motorsport manager a while back, but got bored of it once I found out how to win pretty easily. I mostly just manage myself in iRacing these days, which is enough of a chore because my driver (me) is absolutely useless.
Lollipop man is fun and all, but a bit repetitive. I usually watch it after particularly spicy or meme worthy races Would love to get a proper setup for my sim racing but that is not on the cards for now.
Everyone starts out somewhere. I just had a G29 on my desk for years, still competing among the best in Norway in Miata leagues. When I upgraded I donated it to my brother, who raced with it for a year. Now he's donated it to our last brother, who's still using it. We all compete and have fun with each other, even if my rig now costs closer to €60k
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On July 18 2024 19:52 Excludos wrote:Show nested quote +On July 18 2024 16:01 KobraKay wrote:On July 18 2024 15:11 Excludos wrote:
I did a little motorsport manager a while back, but got bored of it once I found out how to win pretty easily. I mostly just manage myself in iRacing these days, which is enough of a chore because my driver (me) is absolutely useless.
Lollipop man is fun and all, but a bit repetitive. I usually watch it after particularly spicy or meme worthy races Would love to get a proper setup for my sim racing but that is not on the cards for now. Everyone starts out somewhere. I just had a G29 on my desk for years, still competing among the best in Norway in Miata leagues. When I upgraded I donated it to my brother, who raced with it for a year. Now he's donated it to our last brother, who's still using it. We all compete and have fun with each other, even if my rig now costs closer to €60k
I was writting a big explanation that my problem was not getting the hardware but that my gaming room was upgraded to baby nmr2 room and thus my space was now very limited....when i realized there must be more people that cannot dedicate enough space to have a chair, bolted in pedals etc etc etc so a solution should exist. Ive found a lot of wheel and pedal stands and since they fold and can be stored without much space i guess this may work :D
G29 ive had it in my hands to buy a dozen times but never bought due to the aforemention space issue. I will have to review this now :D
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Perez doing perez stuff.
He keeps on making his contract extension ever more puzzling.
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Checo again causing problems for Red Bul, surely this can't keep om happening without consequences..
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Please put Yuki in that car
Edit: Well not if he's doing that lol
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I know its not possible as he already has contract elsewhere for next year but i would love to see Hulkenberg there.
He does a great job with a not so great car. He could just get a few races in, get a podium or 2 for RB which would be a massive improvement over Perez, and show his mettle as a more than back grid driver.
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On July 20 2024 23:56 KobraKay wrote:
I know its not possible as he already has contract elsewhere for next year but i would love to see Hulkenberg there.
He does a great job with a not so great car. He could just get a few races in, get a podium or 2 for RB which would be a massive improvement over Perez, and show his mettle as a more than back grid driver.
Yeah, I was already hoping he'd get the seat when Perez got it a few years back. Hulk has been a bit underrated before, good to see that people hold him in much higher regard these days.
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McLaren putting their cars where they belong atm, let's see if Max can pose a threat tomorrow.
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Verstappen self pwn and Norris doing a Vettel? hmmm
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Spicy race this 
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EPT
