EPT2017 - 2018 Football Thread - Page 266
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Bearded Elder29905 Posts
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maze.
Germany1392 Posts
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Deleted User 26513
2376 Posts
On May 02 2018 05:40 WillyWanker wrote: There's no justice Yep, he decided to be human. I have Ulreich's play of the match on repeat. Pure gold. | ||
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Elentos
55594 Posts
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Ysellian
Netherlands9029 Posts
On May 02 2018 05:40 WillyWanker wrote: There's no justice Bayern were their own worst enemy. You can blame refs or whatever, but the amount of chances they had in comparison to the amount of chances they gave away it's ludicrous they got outscored by Madrid across both legs. On May 02 2018 05:49 Elentos wrote: Well, that's what happens. In the Bundesliga, Bayern scores from nothing and every shot goes in. And here in the CL semis when it matters, give them 30 chances across 2 games and they'll score 3. And gift their opponents 2 goals. | ||
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sharkie
Austria18762 Posts
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nayumi
Australia6499 Posts
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Liquid`Drone
Norway28911 Posts
On May 02 2018 06:34 sharkie wrote: Three finals in a row, another record? Juventus reached 3 in a row, 95-96 96-97 and 97-98. They only won one though. | ||
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sharkie
Austria18762 Posts
On May 02 2018 06:55 Liquid`Drone wrote: Juventus reached 3 in a row, 95-96 96-97 and 97-98. They only won one though. Thats sick! Must look up the squad tomorrow! | ||
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Liquid`Drone
Norway28911 Posts
 Deschamps and Del Piero played all 3 finals, Zidane and Conte two, Vieri, Vialli, Filippi Inzaghi and Edgar Davids one each. Those are the ones with most name recognition to me anyway - of course their defenders were all stellar too.  | ||
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sneirac
Germany3464 Posts
+ Show Spoiler [1996 win v Ajax] + Angelo Peruzzi Moreno Torricelli - Ciro Ferrara - Pietro Vierchowod - Gianluca Pessotto Antonio Conte - Paulo Sousa - Didier Deschamps Fabrizio Ravanelli - Gianluca Vialli (c) - Alessandro Del Piero Subs: Michelangelo Rampulla Sergio Porrini Vladimir Jugović Angelo Di Livio Michele Padovano Manager: Marcello Lippi + Show Spoiler [1997 v BVB] + Angelo Peruzzi (c) Sergio Porrini - Ciro Ferrara - Paolo Montero - Mark Iuliano Angelo Di Livio - Didier Deschamps - Zinedine Zidane - Vladimir Jugović Christian Vieri - Alen Bokšić Subs: Michelangelo Rampulla Gianluca Pessotto Alessio Tacchinardi Alessandro Del Piero Nicola Amoruso Manager: Marcello Lippi + Show Spoiler [1998 v Real] + Angelo Peruzzi (c) Moreno Torricelli - Mark Iuliano - Paolo Montero Angelo Di Livio - Didier Deschamps - Edgar Davids - Gianluca Pessotto Zinedine Zidane Filippo Inzaghi - Alessandro Del Piero Subs: Michelangelo Rampulla Dimas Teixeira Alessandro Birindelli Antonio Conte Alessio Tacchinardi Nicola Amoruso Daniel Fonseca Manager: Marcello Lippi Is it reasonable or my prejudice against Italian football that I'm most surprised it is three different tactical setups? | ||
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DucK-
Singapore11447 Posts
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Rebs
Pakistan10726 Posts
On May 02 2018 07:23 sneirac wrote: Lineups of those 3 finals. + Show Spoiler [1996 win v Ajax] + Angelo Peruzzi Moreno Torricelli - Ciro Ferrara - Pietro Vierchowod - Gianluca Pessotto Antonio Conte - Paulo Sousa - Didier Deschamps Fabrizio Ravanelli - Gianluca Vialli (c) - Alessandro Del Piero Subs: Michelangelo Rampulla Sergio Porrini Vladimir Jugović Angelo Di Livio Michele Padovano Manager: Marcello Lippi + Show Spoiler [1997 v BVB] + Angelo Peruzzi (c) Sergio Porrini - Ciro Ferrara - Paolo Montero - Mark Iuliano Angelo Di Livio - Didier Deschamps - Zinedine Zidane - Vladimir Jugović Christian Vieri - Alen Bokšić Subs: Michelangelo Rampulla Gianluca Pessotto Alessio Tacchinardi Alessandro Del Piero Nicola Amoruso Manager: Marcello Lippi + Show Spoiler [1998 v Real] + Angelo Peruzzi (c) Moreno Torricelli - Mark Iuliano - Paolo Montero Angelo Di Livio - Didier Deschamps - Edgar Davids - Gianluca Pessotto Zinedine Zidane Filippo Inzaghi - Alessandro Del Piero Subs: Michelangelo Rampulla Dimas Teixeira Alessandro Birindelli Antonio Conte Alessio Tacchinardi Nicola Amoruso Daniel Fonseca Manager: Marcello Lippi Is it reasonable or my prejudice against Italian football that I'm most surprised it is three different tactical setups? I mean it was Lippi's and Italian ball at its peak in the 90's, you could Swap most of that backline with "Cookie cutter Above average Seira A defender X" it spilled over into the early 2000's aswell, really only started fading after Calcio. Keep a worldclass no 10 if you can with some quality attackers and just keep sprraying the ball to them to win the game on their own add 2x midfield jobbers + uncompromising back line. Heck Conte does roughly the same, it just doesnt work aswell as it did back then. The formations are different but that was more a function of how to best use personnel. They played mostly the same way. Most non italian teams didnt really have super tight or ordered defenses alot of the time so the 4/5 man only attack squad would be able to knick a goal or two. At the very least they were hard to score again. If I recall correctly even the goal Real scored to beat them was like a bobble amongst a couple of defenders that landed to a forward in space. They kicked the shit out of players to. Not as bad as stuff in the past but nothing acceptable by todays standards. That Ajax team though. That was some footy. | ||
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Liquid`Drone
Norway28911 Posts
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WillyWanker
France1915 Posts
On May 02 2018 05:54 Ysellian wrote: Bayern were their own worst enemy. You can blame refs or whatever, but the amount of chances they had in comparison to the amount of chances they gave away it's ludicrous they got outscored by Madrid across both legs. And gift their opponents 2 goals. I didn't really mean to blame the refs. I'm being very subjective as a Barça fan of course, but this is just so damn frustrating. Real gave up on the league before 2018 even started, and they were eliminated from the Cup early. They solely focused on the Champions League (which is almost 'unfair' compared to teams like Barcelona who played every single game; very subjective ofc), they were dominated most of the time (80mn vs PSG first leg, Juventus one full game, Bayern both games) but somehow always managed to come on top. They played 3 huge teams, and those 3 disappointed (and yet managed to put Madrid in real troubles!!!). I have no doubt that with Robben, the tie would have been a different story. It's like they're blessed by the football gods or something. When you see them play well you think they can crush any team 4-0 without any problem. But then, Madrid isn't about playing well. I mean, Zidane didn't bring any revolutionary tactics, it's the same team I saw with Pellegrini, Mourinho, or Ancelotti; his team could play like that without a coach, he can focus on being a great motivator/manager and that's enough. I love football, and even as a Barça fan, I can sometimes appreciate Real's moves ((like the 1-1 sequence last night was amazing), but I much prefer 'good' football. Barça, City or even Napoli are way above Real in that regard. They work every day to perfect their teamplay, passing, etc., while Madrid seems to only focus on being in top physical shape, and their natural talent will do the rest. And it works perfectly in CL. No justice. | ||
Pandemona
Charlie Sheens House51493 Posts
On May 02 2018 07:47 DucK- wrote: Is this Liverpool's year? The blitz looks capable of tearing real apart. Then again their defence from 75 min is also capable of getting real'd like what Bayern experienced over 2 legs... People need to remember its some sort of Real curse they place on you, a voodoo per se. They gift you chances after chances but every team who plays against them cannot convert. So scouse, even though they score for fun, i can see Chelsea Salah turning up and fluffing every chance because of the Real "vodoo". | ||
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sharkie
Austria18762 Posts
On May 02 2018 10:42 WillyWanker wrote: I didn't really mean to blame the refs. I'm being very subjective as a Barça fan of course, but this is just so damn frustrating. Real gave up on the league before 2018 even started, and they were eliminated from the Cup early. They solely focused on the Champions League (which is almost 'unfair' compared to teams like Barcelona who played every single game; very subjective ofc), they were dominated most of the time (80mn vs PSG first leg, Juventus one full game, Bayern both games) but somehow always managed to come on top. They played 3 huge teams, and those 3 disappointed (and yet managed to put Madrid in real troubles!!!). I have no doubt that with Robben, the tie would have been a different story. It's like they're blessed by the football gods or something. When you see them play well you think they can crush any team 4-0 without any problem. But then, Madrid isn't about playing well. I mean, Zidane didn't bring any revolutionary tactics, it's the same team I saw with Pellegrini, Mourinho, or Ancelotti; his team could play like that without a coach, he can focus on being a great motivator/manager and that's enough. I love football, and even as a Barça fan, I can sometimes appreciate Real's moves ((like the 1-1 sequence last night was amazing), but I much prefer 'good' football. Barça, City or even Napoli are way above Real in that regard. They work every day to perfect their teamplay, passing, etc., while Madrid seems to only focus on being in top physical shape, and their natural talent will do the rest. And it works perfectly in CL. No justice. Your post mostly hits true but I think you totally forgot that Zidane actually won the league and the CL last season. Which is something that only Mourinho achieved out of all the names you mentioned. This is probably also the only reason he is still in his job. CL success alone is too little for Real. Wasn't Barca in a similar situation at the start of 2017 as Real was this year? Maybe they should have just committed all resources to CL instead of trying to catch Real in the league. I understand your dislike of Real's "success style" football but they clearly have an edge over other teams with that. And in the end thats how you will rate teams in history. And Zidane has done a way better job than Pellegrini, Ancelotti, Mourinho and Benitez. Because if what he is doing is so easy then why did the other "BIG" managers failed before him? So it's definitely not on motivating alone. Otherwise he wouldnt keep getting success a third season in a row | ||
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WillyWanker
France1915 Posts
I think Zidane's success can be attributed to great leadership skills, an amazing roster with quality + experienced players which previous coaches didn't have as much. Ancelotti had the same success, but he got fired over poor league performance. If Zidane didn't pass the ro16 against PSG (which was definitely possible), he could have been fired too, so it's not like he completely outclassed previous coaches. Tell me what Zidane changed tactically that made this team a beast? They rely on Kroos & Modric to distribute balls, Marcelo/Carvajal + Vasquez/Asensio/Bale/Benzema to create, Ronaldo to score, Casemiro to solidify the whole thing. Their football skills are undeniably top top level and some of their plays look very flashy, but you don't see any special combination that those other teams do. It's a solid-ish defense, talented midfield, talented front, and on top of that, perfect physical shape come February. That's their recipe for success, not tactical prowesses. If they were better tactically, they wouldn't have won just 2 out of last 10 Ligas, and they would probably beat Barcelona more often, because their roster is of the same quality. | ||
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Espers
United Kingdom606 Posts
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sneirac
Germany3464 Posts
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