EPTNBA Offseason 2017 - Page 6
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JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
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JimmyJRaynor
Canada18051 Posts
On June 23 2017 00:33 Keyboard Warrior wrote: He is not a finisher. he is a one-dimensional scorer. he is a horrible one-trick "playmaker". he chokes and cramps on important plays. he is a bad defender. he is a unabashed ringchaser. if you put him in gsw, what he did to stagnate korver, love, smith, and irving, he will do to he warriors. ya this doesn't pass the +/- test, the APM test, or xRAPM test. sry man. doesn't pass the eye test either. | ||
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Twinkle Toes
United States3605 Posts
On June 23 2017 00:33 JimmiC wrote: That the Knicks are even listening to the Porzingus offers is incredible to me. He gives them some hope for the future which they have last had... ???? Knicks are not only the owrst run team in the NBA they are in the running for worst run team in sports now that the oilers turned the corner and the browns look to have stabilized. Phil Jackson is ulcer to this team. He is hell bent on destroying the Knicks. He is putting ego ahead of the team's welfare. | ||
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ZenithM
France15952 Posts
On June 23 2017 00:23 Keyboard Warrior wrote: If you had a valid reply against me, you wouldnt resort to ad hominem. All you lebron stan should not be butthurt about his failures That's your username, dude. Anyway Twinkle Toes I don't think the Spurs would have won the series either. I actually rewatched Game 1 up to the injury 2 days ago (what a series that would have been...). I was trying to remember if the Spurs were doing something particularly well, but when rewatching, it wasn't that obvious. Aldridge was playing well, Kawhi was his usual self but was probably not the reason they were up by that much. What impresses me the most out of these Spurs is the value they bring out of their role guys like Simmons, he was defending Curry nicely. But overall I'd say the Warriors starting slow and would probably have picked their game up eventually. | ||
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Keyboard Warrior
United States1178 Posts
On June 23 2017 00:13 Twinkle Toes wrote: I really wonder how young these guys are. Someone last time even boasted about watching games live or something like that. I mean, youth is not a crime, but when your ignorance is a result of your being too young to understand, then it's a bad thing. Im old enough to have seen real greatness in jordan, shaq, kobe, hell even ai. which is why i cringe everytime fans worship lbj and especially when lbj himself places himself in the level of jordan. cmon now! lolreally? bragging about watching the games live is so dorky. like a brat bum kid in college bragging about his car which his daddy bought him. that's hilarious if true. In other news: because of fewer playoffs games, salary cap is down from 101 to 99, with huge league implications. another victim of the gsw and cavs parity issue http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/19703254/salary-cap-2m-less-expected-nba-tells-teams | ||
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JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
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Twinkle Toes
United States3605 Posts
On June 23 2017 00:54 Keyboard Warrior wrote: In other news: because of fewer playoffs games, salary cap is down from 101 to 99, with huge league implications. another victim of the gsw and cavs parity issue http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/19703254/salary-cap-2m-less-expected-nba-tells-teams I won't pass moral judgment on the Warriors or Cavs, but I think everyone agrees that the salary structure needs some improvement. Cavs are getting the worst end of it too. | ||
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Twinkle Toes
United States3605 Posts
On June 23 2017 00:43 ZenithM wrote: That's your username, dude. Anyway Twinkle Toes I don't think the Spurs would have won the series either. I actually rewatched Game 1 up to the injury 2 days ago (what a series that would have been...). I was trying to remember if the Spurs were doing something particularly well, but when rewatching, it wasn't that obvious. Aldridge was playing well, Kawhi was his usual self but was probably not the reason they were up by that much. What impresses me the most out of these Spurs is the value they bring out of their role guys like Simmons, he was defending Curry nicely. But overall I'd say the Warriors starting slow and would probably have picked their game up eventually. That's how you know a coach is good, making the individual cogs work as a unified whole. Even LMA's erratic performance had room in the Spurs system, as found made ways for him to succeed. It's just unfortunate that LMA greatly underperformed this year that even a glimmer of hope for him next season is unjustified. Spurs 3.0 with Kawhi-LMA would have been juicy, if only LMA made an effort to put power with his post ups and refrained from going for his away-from the basket fadeaways when posting up against small players. I died a little inside everytime he did that. | ||
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JimmyJRaynor
Canada18051 Posts
On June 23 2017 00:54 Keyboard Warrior wrote: In other news: because of fewer playoffs games, salary cap is down from 101 to 99, with huge league implications. another victim of the gsw and cavs parity issue http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/19703254/salary-cap-2m-less-expected-nba-tells-teams i never would have seen this if you didn't post it. thanks man. you're awesome. | ||
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JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
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JimmyJRaynor
Canada18051 Posts
"If Phil trades Porzingis for missing an exit interview I'm pretty sure no Knick will show up to exit interviews next year" | ||
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MassHysteria
United States3678 Posts
According to a Knicks source, Jackson is asking for the third overall pick in Thursday's draft as well as next year's Brooklyn pick along with Jaylen Brown and Jae Crowder. This version of the deal would not include Boston taking on Joakim Noah's contract. If Phil can get this, even without Crowder, I would give him props. http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/basketball/knicks/knicks-price-porzingis-high-celtics-article-1.3269298 | ||
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JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
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cLutZ
United States19574 Posts
On June 22 2017 20:27 ZenithM wrote: I think it's more correct to say that he's tricky to referee rather than referee-dependent. You make it sound like he would be completely neutered if the game was called a different way... I don't know how you can mention Danny Green in the same sentence as those guys. He's regularly mentioned as one of the best perimeter defenders in the league. If you want some advanced stats, he's in the top 5 SGs in DRPM. He's like, the prototypical 3-and-D player. Lebron is both tricky to referee, and his performance changes a lot based on it. It is very similar to Shaq. There were the "Shaq rules" because he committed an offensive foul on nearly every possession. The refs didn't call every one, so they compensated by not calling minor hacks on Shaq. Lebron also commits an offensive foul on almost every possession where he drives, these are also almost never called. The difference between "Shaq rules" and "Lebron rules" is sometimes the refs don't apply the second half of "Shaq rules" and call the hacks on Lebron and award him FTs. Game 3 was a pretty egregious version of this. | ||
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Jerubaal
United States7684 Posts
On June 22 2017 22:23 ZenithM wrote: More like. That would be my answer if I was the Lebron-stan to your Lebron-hater. Lol. On June 22 2017 22:59 JimmyJRaynor wrote: i use +/- and its variants to assess over all player performance. The problem with advanced stats is that they are indirect measurements. They are highly susceptible to contextual and statistical quirks. You need to corroborate them with more direct observations. Otherwise, your explanation for why that player is so strong is "fairy dust". On June 23 2017 01:36 JimmyJRaynor wrote: i never would have seen this if you didn't post it. thanks man. you're awesome. There's no need to be snide. It's not like we're not all reading the exact same shit here. You should cite your sources no matter how trivial. | ||
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Jerubaal
United States7684 Posts
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JimmyJRaynor
Canada18051 Posts
On June 23 2017 04:56 Jerubaal wrote: The problem with advanced stats is that they are indirect measurements. They are highly susceptible to contextual and statistical quirks. You need to corroborate them with more direct observations. Otherwise, your explanation for why that player is so strong is "fairy dust". +/- isn't an advanced stat. APM is all about context and not about anything the player does individually so it nicely compliments individual stats. the people bringing forward APM 10+ years ago are still building their analytical empires on APM while working for NBA teams. ESPN licensed xRAPM which came from APM. had the stat been chucked into the garbage years ago i'd agree its more trouble than its worth. that is not what is happening however. the stat is being refined and improved upon in both hockey and basketball by many academics and analytics specialists ( who had an academic background in analytics before being hired ) in the NBA and NHL. standard regression isn't "fairy dust". APM and xRAPM is now very very good at identifying extremes. Who are the very best and very worst. We're discussing whether or not LBJ is amongst the best in the league. This is where APM and xRAPM shine. What they can't do is tell you if Kyle Lowry is a better defender than Delon Wright. A great example of how well xRAPM held up was in the curious case of Andrew Wiggins. The colinearity between Wiggins and Lavine was finally pulled apart when Lavine went down with a knee injury. and Wiggins xRAPM held up very well. On June 23 2017 04:56 Jerubaal wrote: There's no need to be snide. It's not like we're not all reading the exact same shit here. You should cite your sources no matter how trivial. i did. look up a few posts. i'm not reposting the same link 10 minutes later. | ||
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Jerubaal
United States7684 Posts
I don't know what it is that you consider an advanced stat. I would say that an advanced stat is not a counting stat or a facile derivation of a counting stat but an analysis of these other stats. And, sure, it is a nice complement to the other stats, but it doesn't make the case on its own. Earlier in the thread we used Lebron as an example. You said he was clearly still the best player in the league because xRAPM. I said that none of the other stats really seemed to support this. I asked you to tell me what it was that Lebron did that was clearly better than the other players. I don't think you obliged me. APM and xRAPM is now very very good at identifying extremes. Who are the very best and very worst. We're discussing whether or not LBJ is amongst the best in the league. No, we're not. You'd be daft to think he wasn't among the best in the league. We're arguing about whether or not he is the best and could he be better. You're saying that it's great for identifying extremes. Well, we're not exactly comparing Lebron to D'Angelo Russell here. | ||
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JimmyJRaynor
Canada18051 Posts
LBJ's +/- along with those of his team mates indicates he is far and away the best player on the team. the individual stats anyone can look up indicate the same thing. Examining the teams performance over the past 3 years i'd say the Cavs are the #2 team in the NBA. So LBJ is far and away the best player on the 2nd best team. Therefore, LBJ is, at minimum, close to the best player in the NBA if not the best. i do not make enough observations of the NBA to make a more granular assessment than the one provided above. xRAPM indicates LBJ is the best player in the NBA by a slim margin. xRAPM might be right. i dunno. http://www.espn.com/nba/statistics/rpm/_/sort/WINS | ||
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Jerubaal
United States7684 Posts
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