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On June 21 2017 17:46 Keyboard Warrior wrote:
As for lebron, well he could continue on looking for teams that could give him instant rings at the expense of their development.
as far as stunting player development.. every 30+ year old ball handler stunts the development of players with some ball handling skills. Look at how Kyle Lowry stunted the development of James Johnson. That fat, injury prone, finger-pointing midget outta be thrown in lake ontario or hung from the CN Tower right?
Now, had James Johnson and Kyle Lowry both been drafted by Toronto many years ago and played on the same team their entire careers a system probably could've been crafted to feature both their skill sets. However, they were 2 hired gunslingers passing through the highest paying town. So its really neither guys "fault". Furthermore, management never looks at guys they "buy"/acquire in the same way as guys they draft ( in any sport ). So they never invest the kind of time and organizational energy into guys they buy. I wouldn't say its Casey's "fault" either.
the probability of the Toronto Raptors developing a team better than Lebron James by avoiding adding him to their team is zero. i recommend the Raptors add LBJ to their team in a nano-second if LBJ wants to play in the great white north.
GSW's player development, coaching is already locked in long term and won't be impacted by adding LBJ. They'll just keep on improving because Kerr et al are developmental geniuses. Adding LBJ to GSW is both a good short term and long term move for them.
so that's 2 out of 29. 
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On June 21 2017 17:46 Keyboard Warrior wrote:Show nested quote +On June 21 2017 14:07 cLutZ wrote:On June 21 2017 13:07 JimmyJRaynor wrote:
The primary problem for the Cavs is that GSW's starting line up is far better. I disagree. I think GSW's offensive & defensive systems are far better, and their talent is mildly better. And the most important reason for this failure is Lebron. This is what Lebron nuthuggers fail to realize. Heat championship Lebron was a monster at offense and demanded attention. But this version of lebron is not the same threat. .
This was arguably one of Lebron's best seasons and playoffs. I'm not a 'nuthugger' but to say he's not an offensive monster is fucking ridiculous unless you're doing a bad Skip Bayless impersonation. They dropped 1 game coming out of the east, then were the only team in the playoffs to take a game off the stacked GS squad. Coming 2nd to golden state is not failure... unless you're one of those idiots who thinks rings are everything, regardless of context. Swap durant and lebron and the finals would've been four massive blowouts. Besides the cavs' problem for the series wasn't really scoring (they did well enough vs a #1 defense), it was all the easy baskets they gave up cause they had love, korver, jr and kyrie trying to guard some of the best shooters/scorers ever. Did you not see how many backdoor dunks iggy got? or how easily durant blew by defenders the entire series? But sure, they obviously lost because lebron doesn't demand attention and is not the monster he used to be -.-
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in the history of the +/- stat the only guy as big of an outlier on the positive side as LBJ is Bobby Orr. Man, those guys both suck.
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I think it would work with different pieces around Lebron. There is not even 1 so-called "3-and-D" guy around him. For how the Cavs use Love, they could replace him with any tall dude that shoots 3s and you wouldn't have lost much. Just 2 of many issues (issues when talking about their matchup with GS obviously, who cares about the rest of the league :D).
And I know the trend right now is to point at GSW and say "oh look this style of basketball is so much better"! But the fact is, the Cavs don't have the right pieces to emulate that. Not even talking about talent. If you think the Cavs are as good or even better talent-wise that's fine, but they just don't have the right players to play this way.
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I'm not sure how useful discussions about a more perfect Cavs team are, considering it's clear even this team hasn't been coached to its full potential.
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On June 22 2017 01:41 ZenithM wrote:
I think it would work with different pieces around Lebron. There is not even 1 so-called "3-and-D" guy around him. For how the Cavs use Love, they could replace him with any tall dude that shoots 3s and you wouldn't have lost much. Just 2 of many issues (issues when talking about their matchup with GS obviously, who cares about the rest of the league :D).
And I know the trend right now is to point at GSW and say "oh look this style of basketball is so much better"! But the fact is, the Cavs don't have the right pieces to emulate that. Not even talking about talent. If you think the Cavs are as good or even better talent-wise that's fine, but they just don't have the right players to play this way.
Its not just the Warriors, the Spurs also run a better system, and the only person on the Cavs that doesn't "fit" a Spurs-y system is Lebron. The same Lebron that people claim has developed a 3 pointer, and a post game at various points of his career (which would make him perfect for a Spurs-y system). JR Smith and Korver do as well, its not like Danny Green, Pau Gasol, and Patty Mills are some sick defenders .
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u have no idea how several guys will mesh together. a guy that seems like he fits into a certain team's system might clash with the personality of the team in ways impossible to predict until he is inserted into the system. very generally speaking, why do you think companies hate hiring? any time you bring in any one new its a real crapshoot.
in this area draft and develop is better. you get a guy adapted to your system/org from age 20. the guy has no other experience except in your system and you can mold and shape the player in ways you never can with a 28 year old whose played for 3 teams.
who predicted Miami would go 30-11 to end the season? who had James Johnson becoming Miami's #2 playmaker?
when u add a new guy you just never know.
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On June 21 2017 23:48 Scarecrow wrote:Show nested quote +On June 21 2017 17:46 Keyboard Warrior wrote:On June 21 2017 14:07 cLutZ wrote:On June 21 2017 13:07 JimmyJRaynor wrote:
The primary problem for the Cavs is that GSW's starting line up is far better. I disagree. I think GSW's offensive & defensive systems are far better, and their talent is mildly better. And the most important reason for this failure is Lebron. This is what Lebron nuthuggers fail to realize. Heat championship Lebron was a monster at offense and demanded attention. But this version of lebron is not the same threat. . This was arguably one of Lebron's best seasons and playoffs. I'm not a 'nuthugger' but to say he's not an offensive monster is fucking ridiculous unless you're doing a bad Skip Bayless impersonation. They dropped 1 game coming out of the east, then were the only team in the playoffs to take a game off the stacked GS squad. Coming 2nd to golden state is not failure... unless you're one of those idiots who thinks rings are everything, regardless of context. Swap durant and lebron and the finals would've been four massive blowouts. Besides the cavs' problem for the series wasn't really scoring (they did well enough vs a #1 defense), it was all the easy baskets they gave up cause they had love, korver, jr and kyrie trying to guard some of the best shooters/scorers ever. Did you not see how many backdoor dunks iggy got? or how easily durant blew by defenders the entire series? But sure, they obviously lost because lebron doesn't demand attention and is not the monster he used to be -.-
Well, a lot of the backdoor dunks Iggy got were partly Lebron's fault. He looks like he needs to conserve some energy on defense even during the finals. Or it could just be that they are missing a loudmouth like Draymond to communicate on defense.
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On June 22 2017 03:18 cLutZ wrote:Show nested quote +On June 22 2017 01:41 ZenithM wrote:
I think it would work with different pieces around Lebron. There is not even 1 so-called "3-and-D" guy around him. For how the Cavs use Love, they could replace him with any tall dude that shoots 3s and you wouldn't have lost much. Just 2 of many issues (issues when talking about their matchup with GS obviously, who cares about the rest of the league :D).
And I know the trend right now is to point at GSW and say "oh look this style of basketball is so much better"! But the fact is, the Cavs don't have the right pieces to emulate that. Not even talking about talent. If you think the Cavs are as good or even better talent-wise that's fine, but they just don't have the right players to play this way. Its not just the Warriors, the Spurs also run a better system, and the only person on the Cavs that doesn't "fit" a Spurs-y system is Lebron. The same Lebron that people claim has developed a 3 pointer, and a post game at various points of his career (which would make him perfect for a Spurs-y system). JR Smith and Korver do as well, its not like Danny Green, Pau Gasol, and Patty Mills are some sick defenders .
He shot .363 on 4.6 attempts per game in the regular season(3rd to his '12-'13 and '13-'14 Miami seasons) and .411 on 5.9 in the playoffs(career high). His 3 pt shot is fine.
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Were those on spot up s or pull ups?
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Im so confused by people who talk about Lebron stats "in the paint" and "3 Pointers"
He is really good at both in the post handcheck era regular season sense. However, he lacks a consistent offense from either position.
I would argue that Lebron is the most referee-dependent player of all time. He makes Harden look like an amateur, not only on flopping, but also on his committing of obvious fouls that are not called.
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I think it's more correct to say that he's tricky to referee rather than referee-dependent. You make it sound like he would be completely neutered if the game was called a different way...
On June 22 2017 03:18 cLutZ wrote:
[...]JR Smith and Korver do as well, its not like Danny Green, Pau Gasol, and Patty Mills are some sick defenders .
I don't know how you can mention Danny Green in the same sentence as those guys. He's regularly mentioned as one of the best perimeter defenders in the league. If you want some advanced stats, he's in the top 5 SGs in DRPM. He's like, the prototypical 3-and-D player.
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On June 22 2017 15:45 cLutZ wrote:
Im so confused by people who talk about Lebron stats "in the paint" and "3 Pointers"
He is really good at both in the post handcheck era regular season sense. However, he lacks a consistent offense from either position.
I would argue that Lebron is the most referee-dependent player of all time. He makes Harden look like an amateur, not only on flopping, but also on his committing of obvious fouls that are not called.
This. so much this. i mean name me another superstar of his so-called caliber who shamelessly resorts to flopping and would even dare challenge the no calls and look innocent. and let us not get started with the offensive fouls. dude cant post up without locking up and fouling defenders, and let us not even talk about the traveling violations. dude is a product of the stat-era greatness.
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On June 22 2017 21:50 Keyboard Warrior wrote:Show nested quote +On June 22 2017 15:45 cLutZ wrote:
Im so confused by people who talk about Lebron stats "in the paint" and "3 Pointers"
He is really good at both in the post handcheck era regular season sense. However, he lacks a consistent offense from either position.
I would argue that Lebron is the most referee-dependent player of all time. He makes Harden look like an amateur, not only on flopping, but also on his committing of obvious fouls that are not called. name me another superstar of his caliber
More like.
That would be my answer if I was the Lebron-stan to your Lebron-hater.
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On June 22 2017 21:50 Keyboard Warrior wrote:Show nested quote +On June 22 2017 15:45 cLutZ wrote:
Im so confused by people who talk about Lebron stats "in the paint" and "3 Pointers"
He is really good at both in the post handcheck era regular season sense. However, he lacks a consistent offense from either position.
I would argue that Lebron is the most referee-dependent player of all time. He makes Harden look like an amateur, not only on flopping, but also on his committing of obvious fouls that are not called. This. so much this. i mean name me another superstar of his so-called caliber who shamelessly resorts to flopping and would even dare challenge the no calls and look innocent. and let us not get started with the offensive fouls. dude cant post up without locking up and fouling defenders, and let us not even talk about the traveling violations. dude is a product of the stat-era greatness.
I have to ask - if not for stats (which is the direct result of performance), what would you base greatness on?
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Are you saying westbrook is the best player?
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EPT
